A plan I can live with

Old 09-05-2012, 10:26 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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If I can't take a little reality I have no chance of surviving this.

You guys helped a lot today and my first al anon meeting helped as well. Wife and I had a really good talk and I apologized for being a bit of an ass.

She messed up and the twenty minutes I spent holding her and comforting her helped but the three or four days I spent being frantic and miserable did not. I need to focus on my stuff and let her deal with her recovery. Thing is, she is doing just that. She could not tell me why it happened and why she did not stop because she did not know. It shocked her more than me. We learned some things....

We went away. At home she has her routine and her group and meetings and me. On vacation, she was in a new environment where everyone was drinking, myself included because she said it did not bother her. She also just lost her sponsor and got a new one. So I went to do one thing and she went to get breakfast and hang by the pool and she found herself walking past the liquor store and went in and bought that bottle.

She came home and has spent at least an hour with her new sponsor every day, is working her steps and now that my head is out of my ass she is opening up and discussing it.

Lessons learned:
1. The daily interaction with sponsor and group is important. Next time we go away we will prolly go to less of a party place and find a meeting there and she will talk to her sponsor.

2. Alcoholism is a sneaky SOB.

3. Confidence is a killer. We both looked ahead to the dangers after baby comes and figured pregnancy was a shield.... Like alcoholism cares.

4. I can't cure her but I can make it harder if I try to help, time to stop paving that expressway to hell with good intentions.

I'm exhausted but a lot more ....together. We hit a bump. Fortunately she freaked more than I did. The shame and guilt was enough without my whining. So we are starting over, 5 days in. Mom is ok, dad is ok, baby is ok.... Mom and dad are shaken but turning to one another instead of on one another.

I hate alcoholism more than I already did and love her more than I already did and tomorrow is another day for each of us to focus on our own issues and work on building our relationship.

So we got a little wiser and got a good scare. Fortunately she hated it and it was no fun and her lapse lasted about five minutes and did not re-establish the physical dependence.

Tomorrow I have my second al anon meeting and it's a men's meeting which I need. I need some guys to call when I'm stressed out and tonight's meeting was all girls. Al anon versus giants/cowboys in Dallas? Lol.

I'm going to keep ranting, venting, reading and learning here. I appreciate you guys and am feeling a bit humbled by your generosity - thank you. Tonight I will fall asleep my favorite way, with her head on my shoulder and my hand on her belly and some peace.

There will be tough days, today was a very good one and I will work on making tomorrow better. I have some control over that.

Cyr - graduate degree, cool title on my business card, over achiever and yes, I can save the beautiful damsel in distress too. Wow.... Nothing like knee in the nuts to let some air out of the chest.
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by smacked View Post
Let me tell you what my husband did about my drinking. Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

He did have boundaries, if I kept drinking and using, he was going to move out because he will not live with an active drunk. Otherwise, my actions showed him my recovery.

He still doesn't know a dang thing about addiction or alcoholism, doesn't have to.. doesn't matter. I'm either the person he is willing to share his love and life with, or I'm not. So far I've proved that I am, on the flip side, so has he. We all have boundaries about what we'll accept in our lives. If we don't.. well.. that's trouble.

My recovery is none of his business, and he has never made it so.

I would have recovered with or without him. I had to.

He's never asked me if I've drank or used..I think he drinks a glass of wine when he's out with clients a couple times a month, I actually have no idea.

I'm just a non drinker, and I don't use drugs. The rest of the crap I had to do to get there was incredibly intimate and personal to me, and I share that with nobody.
Wow. This post has really gotten to me, in a good way. I had a real lightbulb moment after reading it. I know that I've read similar things here before, but somehow this time these words have really resonated with me:

My husband's recovery is none of my business. I don't need to know a dang thing about addiction or alcoholism. He will either become again a person I am willing to share my love and life with, or not.

That's all there is to it. Talk about being simple.

Thank you!
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Old 09-06-2012, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by PohsFriend View Post
If I can't take a little reality I have no chance of surviving this.

Good. I hope your unborn child survives.

Here's some more reality for you:

Some babies die.

Mine did. I was the mother. And I wasn't an alcoholic or an addict.

Your gestator is both. The stats. are not in favour of your baby being born healthy.

Are you prepared for the possibility of a dead baby after the baby is born or a stillbirth or a baby with brain damage or fetal alcohol syndrome? A baby being weaned off alcohol or other drugs in the NICU?
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Old 09-06-2012, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Lulu39 View Post
Good. I hope your unborn child survives.

Here's some more reality for you:

Some babies die.

Mine did. I was the mother. And I wasn't an alcoholic or an addict.

Your gestator is both. The stats. are not in favour of your baby being born healthy.

Are you prepared for the possibility of a dead baby after the baby is born or a stillbirth or a baby with brain damage or fetal alcohol syndrome? A baby being weaned off alcohol or other drugs in the NICU?
Hi Lulu,

I don't know all the facts but the mom has been in recovery for 8 months and the gestation period is 9 months... I don't know how far a long she is but worse case scenario is that alcohol and the baby only interacted for 30 days and she is due any second... best case scenario she quit drinking before she became pregnant. The prognosis is pretty good even in scenario one....

prayers said for a beautiful healthy baby... when is the due date???
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:26 AM
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Poh'sFriend, I am so impressed with your heart, your love for this lovely and troubled woman, your unwavering commitment to the health and welfare of your children, and your willingness and ability to take in new information and process it with great introspection.

You are quite something, and ought to be very very proud of yourself. The ethical and moral issues that you are struggling with are as complex as any I've seen on this forum, and you are tackling them with integrity, compassion, and clear focus.

No one can control or even predict the outcome of a situation. Whatever happens, I think that you can rest assure that you are doing, and will continue to do, the absolute best you can, and that is all anyone can do.

More power to you, we're all here rooting for you, your children, and your AW. With just one slip in her pregnancy, I think the chances are good that your son will be normal. I believe that the most dangerous time for drug and alcohol abuse is earlier in the pregnancy when the core systems are forming in the fetus. By 7 months, according to my son and daughter-in-law who just had healthy twins, 6 weeks pre-mature, the lungs are gathering capacity to breathe on their own, and the baby is readying to live on its own. I'd check with a neo-natologist to find out what the risks really are. It is so easy to imagine far worse than what the truth might be.

I got a book for my son/daughter-in-law called In The Womb on line from National Geographic that gave fabulous detailed information on the development of a fetus. NOVA on-line also has wonderful DVDs including Life's Greatest Miracle that you can order. This might be something that your wife would find helpful, as well, as she struggles to keep her addiction in check. Knowing specifically what is happening at the moment as her baby grows might help her connect more viscerally with the risks of drinking again. And sharing the book and DVD could be a very positive thing to do together and help you both move from conflict into the beginnings of sharing and caring for this soon -to -be born child.

On a recent threat (oops what a Freudian slip, I meant "recent thread" !!!), I posted about more of my STBXAH's despicable and unreal behavior, and I asked what actually does a real husband do? I don't think, after almost 20 years, I have any idea of how a normal, loving husband would treat me. Reading your thread, digesting your attitudes and responses, is giving some real insight into what a loving husband does. Thank you.

BothSidesNow
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Lulu39 View Post
Good. I hope your unborn child survives.

Here's some more reality for you:

Some babies die.

Mine did. I was the mother. And I wasn't an alcoholic or an addict.

Your gestator is both. The stats. are not in favour of your baby being born healthy.

Are you prepared for the possibility of a dead baby after the baby is born or a stillbirth or a baby with brain damage or fetal alcohol syndrome? A baby being weaned off alcohol or other drugs in the NICU?
Hi Lulu,

I'm incredibly sorry for your loss. There really are no words I can think of to express what you must have to deal with.

I'm absolutely not prepared for the possibility of dead baby, so far the pregnancy is going very well and mother and child appear to be in perfect health. Mom's alcohol consuption over the course of her pregnancy totals about 3 oz of vodka which was regurgitated after about a minute so hopefully little was absorbed. My wife is under the care of one of the best medical teams in the world and that team includes a psych consult due to mom's illness, we see them again today.

I can almost feel the rage in your post and my first reaction was defensive but I reacted much like you did - "HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY DARE TO ENDANGER THAT BABY!".... and unlike you I have not experienced the loss of a child, thank God. I can only imagine that the very concept of a drink passing her lips would cause visceral pain for you.

Again, I am very sorry for your loss.

My son's mother has a pretty awful disease and I am scared to death that she could have a lapse any time, for any reason or no reason and that was the terrifying lesson for me last weekend. I read something interesting from al-anon last night. The shame and humiliation that an alcoholic suffers is so much greater than we can really understand so my piling on and telling her what she already knew wasn't helping. Being supportive and kind without dismissing the seriousness of what she did works much better. She is frightened and humiliated by what happened and the constant support of her husband, sponsor and 4-5 girls from AA as well as comprehensive medical supervision is the best bet for her and my son at this time. As appalled as I am, you are and anyone would be that she took that sip after 8 months of a perfect record and had to restart the clock with a new 24 hr chip... well, the lesson folks here have been teaching me is that I can't control this so I need to deal with what I know and what I can control. I know she messed up, I also know that 1 day out of 250 is 1 day too many for her to screw up but if I ignore the 249 days that she woke up determined to stay sober and did so because of that one day then I am not helping. That took me a while to get to and I am struggling with it as is she... one day at a time.

So my son won't be born with FAS or addiction because mom - and she is a mother, not a 'gestator', is not using. She had one drink in 8 months, many 'normal' women have a daily glass of wine... but she is not normal, she has this incredibly nasty and incomprehensible disease so one sip is sufficient cause for me to be rather hysterical for 4 days. I don't take it lightly nor does she. If she was using drugs or alcohol throughout the pregancy then I would be terrified of the things you mention but that hypothetical isn't really applicable since I would have taken action long ago if that were the case and the medical team would have intervened on my son's behalf.

Hate the disease, not the patient. My wife is doing everything in her power to eat, rest, exercise and live cleanly and healthily because she loves our son more than her own life. What I had trouble getting and what I am sure is hard for others, herself included, to get was that passing by that damned liquor store was not in her power. I think step one says something about that, I just didn't get it and neither did she. In the end, her therapist and her sponsor pointed out that this was a good thing. A wakeup call perhaps, we shudder at what could have happened but it did not happen and we can't do much of anything unless and until something does happen. Powerlessness is about as comfortable as a kidney stone for me but I'm trying to learn to recognize it.

Thank you for your concern and again, I wish I had the words to express my condolences for your loss and pray that somehow you find peace, I am not sure that I could.
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:47 AM
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PF - very good response, and we're all here praying for you, your Wife, daughter, and STB son.

You've got it together, probably much better than I or many others could do at this point where you are.
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by CentralOhioDad View Post
PF - very good response, and we're all here praying for you, your Wife, daughter, and STB son.

You've got it together, probably much better than I or many others could do at this point where you are.
....I'm a duck. I may appear calm and serene on the surface at times but I'm paddling like hell underneath :-)

It's been one hell of a year. I'm way to reactive right now and need to get back to being the 'real' me... I'm usually extremely good at staying calm and clear and finding solutions to crises ...I actually do that for a living and people joke about it. When my first child was born 17 years ago her mother woke me at 4am and said "My water broke"... Without so much as rolling over I said "That's OK honey, I will buy you a new one in the morning".

Perspective is as valuable as it is expensive to procure and I am getting a bunch right now. Mama Bear is going through a tough fight but she is a fighter (you have no idea) so my job is not to add chaos, my job is to get my **** together and be the steady, unflappable, calm, thinking one right now.

lol... so this thread is achieving what I hoped, I needed a plan because I had to DO SOMETHING. Turns out, that something is to sit down, shut up and focus on ensuring that my darling AW has a calm, cool, collected and rational husband to turn to when it gets tough so she can focus on the task in front of her.

Thanks for the kind words.
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by BothSidesNow View Post

On a recent threat (oops what a Freudian slip, I meant "recent thread" !!!), I posted about more of my STBXAH's despicable and unreal behavior, and I asked what actually does a real husband do? I don't think, after almost 20 years, I have any idea of how a normal, loving husband would treat me. Reading your thread, digesting your attitudes and responses, is giving some real insight into what a loving husband does. Thank you.

BothSidesNow
Thank you....

That really means alot this morning because I have been having a pretty rough time with this. I had no idea what alcoholism, what alcohol addiction, really was. You hear so many people say "Oh Jim, yeah, he's an alcoholic - he get's plastered every Friday night!". Jim is a dumbass, not an alcoholic.

I love my wife. I was PISSED at her when I came on here Saturday night and the 'tougher' posts were good for me. On the one hand, it made me understand that my wife may fail to overcome this and turn my life into one of the many horror stories I read here if I allow it.... On the other hand, I read some things that made me stop wanting to scold her and start defending her. It shamed me a bit. I've been angry and resentful because her disease is such a PITA... but in 40-somethin years and several relationships there is one woman on the planet who has ever made my heart skip a beat every time I see her. Recovering from alcohol addiction so that she can be a great wife and mother is her job, my job is to let her do it and worry about being a great husband and friend and I have a ways to go there.

Thanks for the encouragement and kind words, it's tough looking in the mirror and realizing "Hey buddy, you sure are expending a lot of energy running in circles and acting like an asshat!".

This morning my wife read this thread and kissed me and said "Yup, that's why I put up with you". She's annoyingly cute.
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:52 PM
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I'm glad we're good...

...I have a regular men's meeting on Fridays and love it. It balances nicely against my mixed Tuesday meetings.

You clearly get it. Stick around in Alanon for sure, and here too, and it'll be good.

C-

P.s. Miles Austin scored 15 points for me this week. Nice!
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:53 PM
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Just spent all afternoon with the docs, mom and baby both seem to be doing splendidly, all tests good.

Doc said one drink nothing to fear in terms of harming baby but was clear that no good for mama. Mama gets it, she was nervous today but as ever, she just looked the doc in the eye and fessed up.

Recovery round 2 - day 5.

Btw, kinda proud of her for not trying to say 12/26 is still her sobriety date and this slip did not count. She's pissed at herself but she owned it.

Ps... Damn she is cute
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:58 PM
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" Mama gets it, she was nervous today but as ever, she just looked the doc in the eye and fessed up."

This is good...now calm down...sit back observe, learn all you can about codependency, enabling and addiction.
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by dollydo View Post
" Mama gets it, she was nervous today but as ever, she just looked the doc in the eye and fessed up."

This is good...now calm down...sit back observe, learn all you can about codependency, enabling and addiction.
Yup. Second alanon meeting tonight. Better pace myself, not expecting this to be a sprint.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:30 AM
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Been a long week and a long day but a good one.

I have reallllly wasted a lot of energy being stupid lately. Spent a long time apologizing to wife tonight for that.

Men's al-anon meeting was super. When I had my turn to talk I got pretty choked up and the tears let loose for a bit but that was good for me.

I know the road ahead is a long one, I'm just so much more relaxed now that I realize that all I can do is focus on my recovery which began when she lapsed. We've been playing tug of war and it is time to drop the rope, I'm tired. Letting go is helping.

She may never lapse again, she probably will and the only thing worrying about it will do is make me into the unhappy ***** who makes her feel worse and more stressed... Thus more likely to drink.

It's like a lightbulb went off. I don't have to solve this and couldn't if I tried so screw it. I'm dealing with what DID happen and not what might happen or what could have happened. Alanon will help me, I need it as much as she needs Aa and we share what we are learning since we have been learning about this disease together since she first started coming apart two years ago.

I get it now, going to her open meetings was good but Aa is for them, alanon is for my sanity. Now I know where to focus, on making MYSELF sane, healthy and rational and most of all happy again. That way I can enjoy loving the woman I adore instead of drowning in fear of what might happen.

Funny... That lapse is looking like good luck now. It woke us both up and pulled us closer together. While we each have out own path to recovery I am very blessed. Today was a good day, tomorrow is another day and it will be another good day or it won't, the odds of it being a good one go down the more I worry about it.
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Old 09-07-2012, 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by PohsFriend View Post
Turns out, that something is to sit down, shut up and focus on ensuring that my darling AW has a calm, cool, collected and rational husband to turn to when it gets tough so she can focus on the task in front of her.
Your dedication is admirable, but who do you get to turn to when it gets tough? Don't you deserve a true partner who gives 200% to you, too?
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Old 09-07-2012, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by PohsFriend View Post
I have reallllly wasted a lot of energy being stupid lately.

I know the road ahead is a long one, I'm just so much more relaxed now that I realize that all I can do is focus on my recovery which began when she lapsed. We've been playing tug of war and it is time to drop the rope, I'm tired. Letting go is helping.

She may never lapse again, she probably will and the only thing worrying about it will do is make me into the unhappy ***** who makes her feel worse and more stressed... Thus more likely to drink.

It's like a lightbulb went off. I don't have to solve this and couldn't if I tried so screw it. I'm dealing with what DID happen and not what might happen or what could have happened. Alanon will help me, I need it as much as she needs Aa and we share what we are learning since we have been learning about this disease together since she first started coming apart two years ago.

I get it now, going to her open meetings was good but Aa is for them, alanon is for my sanity. Now I know where to focus, on making MYSELF sane, healthy and rational and most of all happy again. That way I can enjoy loving the woman I adore instead of drowning in fear of what might happen.

Funny... That lapse is looking like good luck now. It woke us both up and pulled us closer together. While we each have out own path to recovery I am very blessed. Today was a good day, tomorrow is another day and it will be another good day or it won't, the odds of it being a good one go down the more I worry about it.
You haven't wasted time being stupid, you are going through a learning process. And although you had a series of serious reactions, it's okay - you're human and you need to protect yourself and your unborn child.

Secondly, you can't possibly be "the unhappy ***** who makes her feel worse and more stressed... Thus more likely to drink. "
You can't control her emotions either. How she deals with you being stressed is her problem. You can control her emotions as much as you can control her drinking - not one whip! My Wife blames me for all her drinking - though it has little to do with me. How she copes with her own stress and her own emotions is out of your control. Some people take a walk, some listen to music, some paint, some read - and our A's head for the bottle.

I like this part though: "Today was a good day, tomorrow is another day and it will be another good day or it won't, the odds of it being a good one go down the more I worry about it"

You're doing well, keep going and don't forget about yourself. And as another poster asked: "who do you turn to for support?"

Good Luck
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Old 09-07-2012, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by PohsFriend View Post
being a bit of an ass
we ALL have been there..

you are OPEN and HONEST ...and i like that...keep an open MIND and what you learn you will grow ..big time!...we all have our pace...i remember when i finely got it....

keep up the good work!
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Old 09-07-2012, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Cyranoak View Post
...I have a regular men's meeting on Fridays and love it. It balances nicely against my mixed Tuesday meetings
you have MEN meetings....? sweet...
we dont have that around here...Ladies AA meeting only, but no Al ANON...*got me thinking now....*
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Old 09-07-2012, 06:39 AM
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Well done on being a supportive partner.
I really hope she 'makes it', and realises how lucky she is. One day you could be leaning on her. not an easy path, but definitely possible.
best of luck to your entire family
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by changeschoices View Post
Your dedication is admirable, but who do you get to turn to when it gets tough? Don't you deserve a true partner who gives 200% to you, too?
Sure I do and she does give her all. Marriage isn't 50-50, it is 100-100. If she doesn't give her all it will be hard not to resent it but that's the whole point. I need my life to get back to normal and I need to be healthy and happy and I just can't tie that to whether or not a recovering alcoholic is there for me the way I hope she will be.

You do raise a good point. In MC with my ex we went through Harley's emotional needs stuff and the 'love busters' (man I hate marketing terms that lessen the message!) and there is one about selfish demands, She scratched her head and said that in 14 years I hadn't made one. ...hadn't made many unselfish requests either.

I've also come to realize that this is not a partnership of one broken person and one whole one. I gots some issues of my own to resolve :-)

Here is one: I grew up with a bipolar, BPD, NPD mom and whoooops, it turns out that influences my adult behavior. I have trouble setting limits, setting boundaries or asking for the same courtesy I give. My ex said that I changed drastically a few years ago after beating cancer. I started setting limits and enforcing them after a lifetime of doing the eggshell shuffle ...anyone want to guess how that went over (hence the fact that my ex is ...ex)

So you are right and I thank you - I need to watch out for that. Right now, my 100% and my AW's 100% may look different. She is in the first year of recovery and pregnant. Wow, that's plenty. I married her knowing that there would be an imbalance in the beginning but only because I know that if she does stick to recovery, this is a woman with more courage and strength than anyone would believe when she is sober.

My lesson learned this week is that I need to stop worrying about that. She will recover or she won't. I need to recover and deal with my issues and move forward on the path to the kind of life I want to lead. Whether she's walking beside me a year from now or whether she can't is up to her and I have to stop trying to control that for my own sanity.

Meanwhile, I am working on finding some folks in al-anon who I click with and am fortunate enough to have some very good male friends to turn to when I need a hand, I have a really good Ind. therapist who 'gets me' and what I need most from my wife is what she is doing - she is working hard on her recovery. I am working hard to make sure that I am OK regardless of her outcome and the folks here helped me see that this week.

BTW: When I said that keeping myself sane and happy would make it easier for her to stay sober and making her feel worse about her alcoholism would make it harder... in no way does that make me responsible, even if I was nagging and blaming and making her feel bad that is no excuse.... just saying that it would be counterproductive to both of us.

Gotta stop getting in my own way ;-)
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