m1k3

The only thing I can say, based on my experience on trying to have a relationship with an active alcoholic is:

Abandon hope all ye who enter here.

( The sign over the entrance to Hell in Dante's Inferno. )

((((hugs))))

Your friend,

Twingo

I am pretty new to Al-Anon (and this forum), so I can't say what to do. However, one question I read somewhere in Step 1 materials somewhere was:

If things are to stay as they are today with your ABF forever and ever (no changes), would you want to stay with him?

If the answer is no, I think you know your answer. Don't worry about how a decision to leave him would affect his opinion of YOU. So what if he blames his sadness and drinking on you? When he gets to his 4th step inventory he'll figure out you were not to blame for it, as you are not to blame here.

You need to focus on yourself. It sounds like he isn't the person you fell in love with, but you're in love with the person before he relapsed. Only he can control whether or not he wants to be that person again.

MTSlideAddict

A lot of what you wrote sounds to me the beginnings of a chaotic relationship. When you wrote: The choice of the word “WE” makes me believe that you are taking on his alcoholism as your problem, like you are attempting to “fix” or mold him to become the person you wish him to be- a non-drinker. One thing that is known about actively drinking alcoholics is that they are manipulate. Once they find someone that is willing to accept their manipulation they will hang on to them. They tell you what you wish to hear just so you will remain their crutch. They need someone to enable them to drink. By believing his problem to be partially your responsibility to control you are in fact enabling him. This is the beginning of a cycle that is hard to break.

With all that said, if you wish to continue in this relationship my advice is to educate yourself on Alcoholism, the diseases progression, who it affects others, and Codependency. I believe Al-Anon is a great idea as well. If you do go to Al-Anon take in the other’s stories, because I’m sure many have been in your shoes. I know I have been about eight years ago. I didn’t believe then that my boyfriend (at the time) would become such a problematic drinker. I didn’t believe he would ever be abusive to me. I didn’t even understand what I was witnessing was Alcoholism. I believed that alcohol was such a small thing and he was perfect even though he could not control his drinking. Knowing now what I didn’t know then I would have walked away. I would not have married him. I would have spared my many years of abuse and pain.

Please continue to read through this site, and we are here to help if you should need.

NWGRITS

Agreed. There is no "we" in a relationship with an A. At least not in the traditional, healthy sense. It's the A and their problems, and you and your problems. It definitely seems like you're trying to take on his illness, being responsible for him and trying to make the world see how great he is. He's not great. He's an A: a master manipulator, con man, and overall "life thief" as I like to refer to them. He's got you right where he wants you, though. As long as you stay with him like this, he has it made. He's home free to drink and do whatever he wants because he knows you'll cover for him and enable him. Again, you're not the one in the driver's seat, and you never will be when you're in a relationship with an active A. Hopefully you'll come back to us when you need help. There's no judgment here, just tough love, honesty, and support.

EnglishGarden

Fruitfly,
(If you are still reading the responses),
what his former sponsor means regarding responding "skillfully" toward his drinking and learning what that means in Al-Anon:

An enabler hastens an alcoholic to his death. An enabling codependent who idealizes the alcoholic and who minimizes the brutal facts of his disease and what it does to his thinking, his behavior, and his capacity for cruelty and the destruction of himself and all those who love him...that codependent is JUST WHAT THE ADDICTION ORDERED.

Yes, do go to Al-Anon, minimum twice a week. Use very good birth control.

You do not understand this right now, but at this point in time, you are very bad for your alcoholic partner. And he is very bad for you. Addiction is going to eat you both up if neither of you gets some serious help.

So, while you are waiting to see if he returns to working a program (which will not be today because he is too comfortable in his drinking), go to Al-Anon. Otherwise, you are just one more enabler helping addiction destroy him.

HeySoulSista

I am a little bit in the same boat. Trying to decide if I stay or go.

HeySoulSista

Actually.. I am not if I stay or go.. I already went.. it is if I should go back or stay away. Trying to be friends is really hard, I still love him.

HeySoulSista

That's just my story. And based on that, it's very hard for me to say anything other than "step away and reevaluate if he sobers up and stays sober for a year."

Thanks lillamy... I am trying to get the courage to not go back to my friend. He hid his alcoholism from me, now not only do I know, but your stories sound like his ex wife's stories. He used to be a great guy and part of him still is, but alcohol can change a person.

He claims to be sober, but his ex wife told me not to believe it.

marie1960

Soulsista, Addiction is not a foundation for a friendship. You already left for a reason, what would make you think anything has so drastically changed? For your own health and sanity........ STAY AWAY. The roller coaster is no place to live.

NWGRITS

Thanks for the clarification, EnglishGarden. No one in my group is still with their A, so I haven't heard that before.

HeySoulSista- Stay gone. You deserve better than the living hell that is life with an A. Keep posting here, and welcome!

HeySoulSista

Thanks, Fandy. I am sure he is not so worried about me.

"i'm sorry you are so worried about him. He is not worried about you, obviously."

HeySoulSista

decide if you really want to go down such a painful path, with no guarantees that it will ever get better.

Thanks Ichabod.. I appreciate it. He was my guy ions ago... and I fell in love with the very young guy and saw only glimpses of him now.. many years later. It turns out he was hiding drinking from me and being very selective about when he saw me. He is also a functional alcoholic, so is attentive and listens well, etc. But the YEARS of alcoholism that he lied and led me to believe were only 2.. were more like 22.. the alcohol is effecting his personality and his impulse control is terrible. He has outbursts of mean drunk. You never know when that is coming. When he is mostly sober he is great..

Anyway.. I had not seen him in a few months and he claimed to be sober.. but only a few weeks sober. He got sober enough to realize the horrible older sugar momma he is living with is a controlling, freaky insecure jealous jailer and she keeps a lot of liquor handy to keep him trapped. But I resent him trying to ask me to let him move in, just because he wants away from the sugar momma. It is not in my best interest. I don't appreciate the guilt trip about him saying he will be living on the street if I don't let him in.

It would not be in my best interest if he was sober, either a while.. because being pressured into something is not okay.

HeySoulSista

And for an A to say that they love you and care and blahblahblah is nothing more than words with no meaning. It's what we call "quacking." They're master manipulators and know just what to say to keep you hanging around and enabling them. Of

Thanks NWGRITS

Quacking.. good one. Yeah.. that makes sense, thank you. My ex husband manipulated me terribly. I am sometimes naive, in weird ways. I believe good things about people and took the saying if you can't say something nice about someone don't say anything at all too far.

My Dad was not an alcoholic when I was very young, but was when I was a teenager.

I had to live with my mom briefly, recently... and I am in mid life.. and wow was that an eye opener, she won't let you do anything for yourself and even cuts you off at the refrigerator to reach for something for you after you open the door.. The most bizarre nagging codependent.. a real trip.

HeySoulSista

Thanks DJAYR

Then there is your concern that you are doing something to cause him to drink. Believe one thing, you are NOT. You didn't cause it, can't control it, and can't cure it.

As a free and intelligent person, you should do what your brain, heart, and guts are telling you to do. Love does not conquer all when it comes to alcoholism.

Take care of yourself and rest assured that people here who are warning you, they really do care, and they see about 10 big red flags in your post that remind them of things they learned the hard way. Usually the really hard way.

HeySoulSista

If he can get clean and stay clean for a minimum of a year (and is working a strong program) I might consider getting back with him.

Thanks Dollydo, it is helping me remember that a month of sobriety is not anywhere near enough.

HeySoulSista

[QUOTE=itsmylifenow;3561045]It's so hard to read this.

This one downside, the only "problem" you see? It's not just a big one. It's a life altering one.
Thanks its my life

Just because he hasn't been verbally abusive to you, yet...doesn't mean he's not going to get there.

Just because he hasn't lied to you yet....doesn't mean he won't get there.

Part of co-dependency is staying in situations because you believe you can be someone's savior. That loving someone will get them through anything and you are willing to sacrifice whatever you have to in the name of love. Because they need you, and you need to help them.

You figure your love will be all the A needs to open their eyes and realize they have to do whatever it takes to keep you in their life. You begin to lose your independence, your life, your friends and family.

Please don't romanticize this.

ZiggyB

I know the feeling....

fruitfly

Yes, believe me, I know there is nothing romantic about it. I have no delusions that I can be his saviour. In fact one of my fears is that his recovery hinges on my leaving him. Like that has to be his wake-up call to get help. It's just that we've fallen in love, and we started when he was dry for 3 months, and it's hard to simply turn that off. I'm up for the challenge this is posing to our relationship, but I know it's not a challenge over which I can influence the outcome. If he's powerless to his drinking, which he is, I sure as hell can't do anything about it. Surprise surprise, last night him and his friend got drunk and were late to go home to his friend's wife, and so instead of meeting them at the friend and wife's place, the plan was to meet them at that same damned bar and then leave from there. But, as I figured, she was rightly annoyed that they were 3 hours late and cancelled the plans. So as soon as I realized that they were there at the bar to stay, I simply explained I didn't want to be there, and this wasn't what I had planned for the evening and I went home. The best I can do is not condone his addiction, and learn how to not enable him. So removing myself from the situation last night was the first step in doing that.

fruitfly

You hit the nail on the head with this. I'm amazed at how textbook and predictable his behavior is.

fruitfly

But is that fair? I realize my use of "we" now and how that reflects me taking on his problems. I realize there's nothing I can do about it, but I find I do tend to internalize his addiction, so that part is true. But I don't think it's fair to paint people with alcoholism as life thieves, con men, master manipulators, etc. I don't equate being an alcoholic with being a bad person. There are lots of bad people who are alcoholics, I'm sure. But there are also a lot of good people who are alcoholics, as well. That's why loved ones pray and hope for their recovery, otherwise it would be simple to turn our backs on them. But if this is a disease, then it's a disease and not a reflection on someone's moral character.