sigh. I guess a jerk is just a jerk
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sigh. I guess a jerk is just a jerk
What we had argued about is him hanging out on dating sites. He said he wouldn't do it anymore - cold turkey - deleted the profile on the site I knew about. Someone on here said something about 'plenty of fish' and I remembered him mentioning that he had used that site too, so I checked it out. Yep. Online now! Woohoo!. So I asked him via facebook message, how's the dating site 'cold turkey' going? He replied with something about joining "dating site anonymous". Yep. Pretty funny there. So I emailed him the following, I hope it's accurate:
I've never had a problem with alcohol, so I can't be sure my assumptions are correct, but it seems to me that the problem is not the alcohol you are putting in your body, but the behaviors you engage in while doing it. I would think that part of the recovery entails recognizing these destructive behaviors, and understanding that continuing to do them will do you just as much harm whether your are drinking or not. I would think that one of the big bad traits is lying. I imagine that alcoholics spend a lot of time lying to themselves, and lying to the people that care about them. Notice that I didn't say 'the people they care about'. I have a hard time believing that caring about someone, and lying to them can happen at the same time.
Believe it or not, 'normies' don't lie to each other. We don't try to deceive or evade in order to get what we want because we understand that living a great lie isn't nearly as satisfying as living a pretty good reality. We understand that things only get better if you accept them as they are and try to improve them. We understand that life comes with problems, and only by dealing with them honestly and openly can we make things better. We understand that each of us is human and when we walk the planet together, as a team, we experience and enjoy so much more.
Everyone has things in their life that are painful, or shameful, or they just want to keep hidden. Most people eventually realize that they have to accept that these things are a part of themselves, and yes, they may have to share them with another person at some point. That person may stay, or they may run, but at least you were honest with yourself for telling them. In the long run, it just doesn't work to keep secrets. When someone gets too close to your secret, you end up running/lying/hiding or some other behavior that hurts the person who cares about you, and, really, hurts you too.
I've never had a problem with alcohol, so I can't be sure my assumptions are correct, but it seems to me that the problem is not the alcohol you are putting in your body, but the behaviors you engage in while doing it. I would think that part of the recovery entails recognizing these destructive behaviors, and understanding that continuing to do them will do you just as much harm whether your are drinking or not. I would think that one of the big bad traits is lying. I imagine that alcoholics spend a lot of time lying to themselves, and lying to the people that care about them. Notice that I didn't say 'the people they care about'. I have a hard time believing that caring about someone, and lying to them can happen at the same time.
Believe it or not, 'normies' don't lie to each other. We don't try to deceive or evade in order to get what we want because we understand that living a great lie isn't nearly as satisfying as living a pretty good reality. We understand that things only get better if you accept them as they are and try to improve them. We understand that life comes with problems, and only by dealing with them honestly and openly can we make things better. We understand that each of us is human and when we walk the planet together, as a team, we experience and enjoy so much more.
Everyone has things in their life that are painful, or shameful, or they just want to keep hidden. Most people eventually realize that they have to accept that these things are a part of themselves, and yes, they may have to share them with another person at some point. That person may stay, or they may run, but at least you were honest with yourself for telling them. In the long run, it just doesn't work to keep secrets. When someone gets too close to your secret, you end up running/lying/hiding or some other behavior that hurts the person who cares about you, and, really, hurts you too.
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Originally Posted by choublak 
Wait what? He actually said he was going to quit going on dating sites "cold turkey"?
I don't even "get" that. If I don't "get" something, I stay away.
I don't even "get" that. If I don't "get" something, I stay away.
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[QUOTE=WaterWings;3555950]I've never had a problem with alcohol, so I can't be sure my assumptions are correct, but it seems to me that the problem is not the alcohol you are putting in your body, but the behaviors you engage in while doing it. [QUOTE]
I'm very confused - in your last thread you stated that he has been sober for 5 years now. Is he sober or actively drinking?
I'm very confused - in your last thread you stated that he has been sober for 5 years now. Is he sober or actively drinking?
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He is sober, and I believe he is quite serious about it. But whether a person is currently drinking or not, it's the destructive behaviors that go with it that are the problem ( I think). If you don't deal with those, in addition to the alcohol, then maybe you aren't really in recovery, you just aren't drinking.
I don't know, and I really don't care. Whatever the "reason" behind the lying is, you should deal with it. Life is complicated, and I'm not interested in trying to understand someone else's motivations. I can only deal with what I am presented with right now. Right now he's completely sober, he's actively involved in AA, and he's lying to me. The first two don't matter, the third is the deal-breaker.
I don't know, and I really don't care. Whatever the "reason" behind the lying is, you should deal with it. Life is complicated, and I'm not interested in trying to understand someone else's motivations. I can only deal with what I am presented with right now. Right now he's completely sober, he's actively involved in AA, and he's lying to me. The first two don't matter, the third is the deal-breaker.
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Originally Posted by WaterWings
What we had argued about is him hanging out on dating sites. He said he wouldn't do it anymore - cold turkey - deleted the profile on the site I knew about. Someone on here said something about 'plenty of fish' and I remembered him mentioning that he had used that site too, so I checked it out. Yep. Online now! Woohoo!. So I asked him via facebook message, how's the dating site 'cold turkey' going? He replied with something about joining "dating site anonymous". Yep. Pretty funny there. So I emailed him the following, I hope it's accurate:
I've never had a problem with alcohol, so I can't be sure my assumptions are correct, but it seems to me that the problem is not the alcohol you are putting in your body, but the behaviors you engage in while doing it. I would think that part of the recovery entails recognizing these destructive behaviors, and understanding that continuing to do them will do you just as much harm whether your are drinking or not. I would think that one of the big bad traits is lying. I imagine that alcoholics spend a lot of time lying to themselves, and lying to the people that care about them. Notice that I didn't say 'the people they care about'. I have a hard time believing that caring about someone, and lying to them can happen at the same time.
Believe it or not, 'normies' don't lie to each other. We don't try to deceive or evade in order to get what we want because we understand that living a great lie isn't nearly as satisfying as living a pretty good reality. We understand that things only get better if you accept them as they are and try to improve them. We understand that life comes with problems, and only by dealing with them honestly and openly can we make things better. We understand that each of us is human and when we walk the planet together, as a team, we experience and enjoy so much more.
Everyone has things in their life that are painful, or shameful, or they just want to keep hidden. Most people eventually realize that they have to accept that these things are a part of themselves, and yes, they may have to share them with another person at some point. That person may stay, or they may run, but at least you were honest with yourself for telling them. In the long run, it just doesn't work to keep secrets. When someone gets too close to your secret, you end up running/lying/hiding or some other behavior that hurts the person who cares about you, and, really, hurts you too.
I've never had a problem with alcohol, so I can't be sure my assumptions are correct, but it seems to me that the problem is not the alcohol you are putting in your body, but the behaviors you engage in while doing it. I would think that part of the recovery entails recognizing these destructive behaviors, and understanding that continuing to do them will do you just as much harm whether your are drinking or not. I would think that one of the big bad traits is lying. I imagine that alcoholics spend a lot of time lying to themselves, and lying to the people that care about them. Notice that I didn't say 'the people they care about'. I have a hard time believing that caring about someone, and lying to them can happen at the same time.
Believe it or not, 'normies' don't lie to each other. We don't try to deceive or evade in order to get what we want because we understand that living a great lie isn't nearly as satisfying as living a pretty good reality. We understand that things only get better if you accept them as they are and try to improve them. We understand that life comes with problems, and only by dealing with them honestly and openly can we make things better. We understand that each of us is human and when we walk the planet together, as a team, we experience and enjoy so much more.
Everyone has things in their life that are painful, or shameful, or they just want to keep hidden. Most people eventually realize that they have to accept that these things are a part of themselves, and yes, they may have to share them with another person at some point. That person may stay, or they may run, but at least you were honest with yourself for telling them. In the long run, it just doesn't work to keep secrets. When someone gets too close to your secret, you end up running/lying/hiding or some other behavior that hurts the person who cares about you, and, really, hurts you too.
Are you open to counseling to see why you might choose to be with a known liar?
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Originally Posted by lillamy
Sober or actively drinking doesn't matter so much. If he spends his time on dating sites, he is not showing you the respect you deserve.
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Originally Posted by seek
I know it's painful, but if this is a deal-breaker, break the deal . . .you can't educate him or fix him . . .unfortunately . . .he is not going to have an "aha" by reading your logical email.
Are you open to counseling to see why you might choose to be with a known liar?
Are you open to counseling to see why you might choose to be with a known liar?
And I'm actually choosing to not be with him. Knew about the dating site thing, was waiting to see if he considered us an "us" and would stop. Finally confronted him and told him how bad it felt and he said he would stop.
And he didn't. And that's where I am now.
If I get a response different from "you're right, I never saw it that way, I will work on dealing with this and maybe, when I've accepted that it's a problem, and I'm working on fixing it, we can go out again", then his stuff is on the lawn.
Trust is a really big thing with me, and not something I'm willing to compromise. I'm just sad to discover this duplicity in him. Makes me realize that I wasn't dating the person that I thought I was dating.
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Originally Posted by WaterWings
If I get a response different from "you're right, I never saw it that way, I will work on dealing with this and maybe, when I've accepted that it's a problem, and I'm working on fixing it, we can go out again", then his stuff is on the lawn.
L
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Originally Posted by LaTeeDa
But, you know this guy is a liar. So, chances are you will get exactly the response you want, and it will be another lie......
L
L
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
He is what he is. Can you live with that?
There's a fellow in AA from a nearby town who's been sober as long as me (22 years). The only time he "pops in" at our group, he's in between wives and wants to see if there are any vulnerable women. He's a practiced 13th-stepper. I think he is on wife #5 right now.
Being active in AA and having "X" years without drinking can't make positive changes in an a$$hat when that person doesn't want to change. You've got an a$$hat in the rooms of AA.
Sending you hugs of support.
There's a fellow in AA from a nearby town who's been sober as long as me (22 years). The only time he "pops in" at our group, he's in between wives and wants to see if there are any vulnerable women. He's a practiced 13th-stepper. I think he is on wife #5 right now.
Being active in AA and having "X" years without drinking can't make positive changes in an a$$hat when that person doesn't want to change. You've got an a$$hat in the rooms of AA.
Sending you hugs of support.
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Originally Posted by LaTeeDa
But, you know this guy is a liar. So, chances are you will get exactly the response you want, and it will be another lie......
L
L
Originally Posted by NWGRITS
Listen to LaTeeDa. If you are going to base your decisions on what he says to you, then you're going to be on this merry-go-round for eternity. Plug your ears and open your eyes. His actions tell you all you need to know. Run away and don't look back.
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You know, when I got sober, I was told by an old timer:
"You may be the only copy of the Big Book that someone ever sees so you
better be DAMN sure that you are true and accurate copy of that book."
Doesn't sound like this guy is a 'true and accurate copy' of the BB as a matter
of fact I shudder at him being an example of AA.
He's told you what he is, he's a liar, believe that.
Time to look back on yourself and figure out what attracted you to him.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
"You may be the only copy of the Big Book that someone ever sees so you
better be DAMN sure that you are true and accurate copy of that book."
Doesn't sound like this guy is a 'true and accurate copy' of the BB as a matter
of fact I shudder at him being an example of AA.
He's told you what he is, he's a liar, believe that.
Time to look back on yourself and figure out what attracted you to him.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
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Originally Posted by WaterWings
Just wanted to repeat these things to myself
You didn't CAUSE it.
You can't CONTROL it.
You can't CURE it.
Every day. I'm good most of the time, but on the odd day a wave of guilt will hit me. If it weren't for the people here and Al-Anon, those waves would probably knock me over. But they don't. Keep talking to us. Keep reminding yourself that you didn't cause any of this, and he's a jerk because he's a jerk. You did NOTHING to make him that way.
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Originally Posted by Cyranoak
...but I'll leave it at this-- why in God's name are you actually expecting him to change?
.
.
Wasn't expecting, just hoping I was wrong.
Love how y'all here are happy to slap people upside the head with reality. 'tis a good thing.
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I wish I knew who used to post this all the time on SR but it always resonated with me...
"Wring the alcohol out of an asshat and all you have left is a sober asshat"
If this guy is living with you (putting stuff on the lawn suggests that you are cohabitating) and is posting on dating sites he fails the "asshat test"... I agree with the other posters ... lose him!
"Wring the alcohol out of an asshat and all you have left is a sober asshat"
If this guy is living with you (putting stuff on the lawn suggests that you are cohabitating) and is posting on dating sites he fails the "asshat test"... I agree with the other posters ... lose him!
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Originally Posted by WaterWings
If I get a response different from "you're right, I never saw it that way, I will work on dealing with this and maybe, when I've accepted that it's a problem, and I'm working on fixing it, we can go out again", then his stuff is on the lawn.
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