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Me again: let's talk about paranoia

Old 08-25-2012, 07:46 AM
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Me again: let's talk about paranoia

OK, so I swear my AH is paranoid. Is this typical for someone on Paxil or someone who is active in their disease? He has shared that he thinks I'm being poisoned mentally by my sister's divorce and that I spend so much time helping her out(I talk to her once a day and it's mostly recovery related, as she goes to Al Anon, or I'm giving her financial advice or suggestions regarding the short sale of her house, etc) that I'm transferring her problems and making them mine. He also thinks that Facebook is an issue because I see all my successful friends on there and then I compare them to our marriage and life and realize that it's lacking. He also thinks the luggage I have under the bed is a 'go' bag. Umm, does he really think I'd keep my GO bag right under the bed in plain sight? It's empty and I just hadn't put it away in the closet. Honestly, I've been too lazy to pack a go bag, LOL!

Then, he actually wrote these words for our marriage therapist:
"It is very difficult with all the council that Liz is getting when she goes to meetings-she has her spirit lifted-she gets to be free of me and dwell on everything positive. When she goes to her therapist: she gets validation based on what she says and feels with the therapist-she gets direction on how to move her life forward. When she goes on the internet: she can search to her hearts content to find ways to validate her thinking and she can find people that share or shared a particular situation-why I am an unfit mate, father, and even human being. I know I scare Liz. I make her uneasy-in all this I am to blame. I honestly don't know why she's interested in attempting to salvage a relationship that has been so clearly dysfunctional and damaging to her psyche. I maintain that I only want the best for her and our son. I know that whatever 'best' I have to offer is woefully insufficient."

It's like one big pity party. He also wants to address the lack of sex issue with the therapist. Not sure he's going to get far with that one since I will make it clear that I don't trust him and that the drinking needs to get addressed first. I swear, it's like he's paranoid, pathetic, and seems to just be in a state of pity. I think he's still reeling because I told him I'm not going on the Costa Rica trip with him in October. He did decide to go by himself, though, so I think that's a good thing.
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Old 08-25-2012, 08:27 AM
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"Paranoia strikes deep...into your mind it will creep. Starts when you're always afraid, step out of line the man comes and takes you away.." Old song lyrics from Buffalo Springfield.

My ex A listens to Alex Jones, etc.
When planning a trip. he said we could drive instead of flying because he was afraid "they" (TSA workers) would pull him out of the security line and detain him because of the views he supports.

True story. Yes, (most) alcoholics are paranoid-big time, not to mention mentally ill, even if they are "recovering" JMO, of course...
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Old 08-25-2012, 08:28 AM
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Hi Liz, I am again going to recommend reading Under the Influence; it really is worth the couple bucks it costs on Amazon. These behaviors that you experience from him will make much more sense, as will the disease process itself.

As long as he is in this place, where everything he has to offer is 'woefully insufficient', he can justify drinking. Who wouldn't drink with a wife like that, right? He's so miserable and unhappy, of course he drinks to soothe his wounded ego and frazzled nerves, and also to calm down his libido because you won't sleep with him on top of this emotional abuse. And on top of all that - he got in trouble with the law for drinking and in his mind has most likely found a way to blame you for that too.

My ex used to, in a very joking manner but always with a barb of paranoid truth to it, think I was conniving to make him crazy by hiding his car keys in the morning, moving things around in the house, and just generally making his life unmanageable. On purpose. The paranoia was veiled as humor, but it was very real. To the point that even though our sex life was healthy and normal, he still thought I was 'inappropriate with other men' code words for you are a cheater but I don't have enough evidence gathered through my secret intel in your life to make a firm accusation without sounding totally crazy.

The disease protects its perimeters, and you are threatening it right now.

So you can either accept his quacking and poor-me routine or just smile and nod your head and make comforting noises like "um-hmm" and then go find your happy place, knowing this is all alcoholic babble and so totally normal and classic to most addicts.
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Old 08-25-2012, 08:45 AM
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Well, I wouldn't necessarily call it paranoid. Given what's going on, he is correct in being worried that you are thinking about leaving him.

The letter to the therapist? Possibly "evidence" for him to use to show that he is sane, insightful and reasonable. It's also entirely focused on your actions and basically says that you are wrong but you are finding support for your incorrect worldview from other people.

In other words, it means and says nothing, lol!
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Old 08-25-2012, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Tuffgirl View Post
Hi Liz, I am again going to recommend reading Under the Influence; it really is worth the couple bucks it costs on Amazon. These behaviors that you experience from him will make much more sense, as will the disease process itself.

As long as he is in this place, where everything he has to offer is 'woefully insufficient', he can justify drinking. Who wouldn't drink with a wife like that, right? He's so miserable and unhappy, of course he drinks to soothe his wounded ego and frazzled nerves, and also to calm down his libido because you won't sleep with him on top of this emotional abuse. And on top of all that - he got in trouble with the law for drinking and in his mind has most likely found a way to blame you for that too.

My ex used to, in a very joking manner but always with a barb of paranoid truth to it, think I was conniving to make him crazy by hiding his car keys in the morning, moving things around in the house, and just generally making his life unmanageable. On purpose. The paranoia was veiled as humor, but it was very real. To the point that even though our sex life was healthy and normal, he still thought I was 'inappropriate with other men' code words for you are a cheater but I don't have enough evidence gathered through my secret intel in your life to make a firm accusation without sounding totally crazy.

The disease protects its perimeters, and you are threatening it right now.

So you can either accept his quacking and poor-me routine or just smile and nod your head and make comforting noises like "um-hmm" and then go find your happy place, knowing this is all alcoholic babble and so totally normal and classic to most addicts.
And, that is exactly what I'm doing. I can't wait to see what the therapist has to say to all of this as he is a recovering alcoholic and is probably pretty in tune with how alcoholics operate.

I remember one day, many years ago, when my AH was at the height of paranoia regarding our neighbors. This was well before he started drinking again: he started screaming about how the neighbors were going to come over and murder him, rape me first, and that our son would see this all and be damaged for life. He was screaming this while my son and I sat on my bed and while my AH was screaming, my son started crying hysterically. Yep, welcome to insanity and now he's on Paxil and all is well. Just ask him.

I do have that book, I've read it twice. I guess it's just hard to understand paranoia even after all these years together. And, yes, you're right in that it will give him an excuse to drink or to keep wallowing in his own self pity. Making himself look like the victim is much more appealing than taking responsibility for himself.

He keeps whining about how he sleeps in the other room, too, because if he comes to bed and I wake up and hear him snoring then I will leave the room. He says he can't even 'sleep right' for me. I have told him he's welcome in the room but that if I wake up I will leave so that I can get a good night's sleep. I have also told him that he can go to a doctor and find out the source of the snoring and that maybe he needs to do a sleep study. He just blows me off and would rather blame me than take responsibility for his health. I guess it's just easier that way.
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Old 08-25-2012, 08:53 AM
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Well, yeah, THAT is paranoia! My AX recently told me his boss put a video camera over his work area and has a personal vendetta against him. AX just went on Zoloft and it doesn't seem to be helping--he gets paranoid BUT it's also based in reality--I mean, he's an unstable alcoholic so it's entirely possible he is screwing up at work.

He may be on Zoloft but his drinking negates the effects, anyway. You can't drink on anti-depressants and have them work.
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by changeschoices View Post
Well, yeah, THAT is paranoia! My AX recently told me his boss put a video camera over his work area and has a personal vendetta against him. AX just went on Zoloft and it doesn't seem to be helping--he gets paranoid BUT it's also based in reality--I mean, he's an unstable alcoholic so it's entirely possible he is screwing up at work.

He may be on Zoloft but his drinking negates the effects, anyway. You can't drink on anti-depressants and have them work.
Yeah, when my AH went on Paxil the drinking actually increased. He's still on Paxil now and doesn't seem to think it's part of the problem. Oh well, it's his life.

My AH thinks the world is out to get him, just ask him. He will even admit to the paranoia many times and even say, "I know I sound paranoid, but the government is going to raid our accounts and take over the banks, and then we'll be screwed and you'll be so happy with me for burying all our cash in the backyard." It took all my strength to not laugh. I'm a stockbroker by trade and know enough about banking and the FDIC and insured banking to be able to defend it. He knows this and still had to try to drag out a fight about it, LOL! There were many days in our marriage when I'd look at him like he was growing a second head.
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:14 AM
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It sounds like your AH may have a dual diagnosis, meaning he's mentally ill as well as being an addict. It's very common.
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:15 AM
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this as he is a recovering alcoholic
Sorry he is NOT a recovering alcoholic. He is an alcoholic that is just not drinking for the moment. There is absolutely NOTHING about what he is doing that has anything to do with RECOVERY.

Of course he is paranoid right now. Of course he is on the pity pot. The world is till out to get him in his mind and it's NOT HIS FAULT in his mind.

Nothing changes if nothing changes. He is telling you who he is, ............... BELIEVE HIM. This is him. This is the way he is. This is the way he has been. Is this what you want to live with? Is this how you want to live your life?

While you make up your mind, if you can from now on, every time he opens his mouth to say anything just picture the BIG WHITE AFLAC DUCK. And when he starts to speak hear the QUACK QUACK QUACK. That way you won't feel the need to 'justify' to him and to try and 'make him see' your side.

And, please go to Amazon, get "Under The Influence" and also "Beyond the Influence" and read them. It will explain so much for you, even though the first book is now about 30 years old. It is still one of the best descriptions I have ever read of the 'progression' and the 'thinking processes' of an alcoholic.

Love and hugs,
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:17 AM
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What I hear: QUACK.....QUACK........QUACK.........QUACK


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Old 08-25-2012, 09:22 AM
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Liz, I know you think you are accepting this, but what I haven't heard in any of your posts in a true sense of acceptance with action for your life and that of your child. If there was that - you wouldn't be posting about this strangeness; it would be another eye roll and on with the day today. He isn't reeling from you not going on the trip. He is being a classic alcoholic and this is just another page in that book.

I also know I am being hard on you - its not because I am a harsh person, but because you strike me as a beautiful, intelligent young woman with a lot to offer who has her butt firmly planted on the seat of the crazy train ride and still wondering why her husband is acting in context of alcoholism.

There is a life out there that doesn't include this, if you want it. It is waiting for you. One that is filled with serenity and peace, one where your home is safe, your child is healthy and grounded in a loving and stable environment, where people keep their word and are present in the moment.

But as long as you choose this life, it will be exactly as it is, unless he makes a choice to stop drinking and start working a program, which he has not yet, nor has he acknowledged there is even a problem with his drinking. This does not bode well for a future with this man.

Aside from all the reasons you have listed in previous threads - what is it really that keeps you attached to this relationship with an alcoholic? And this is rhetorical - the answer doesn't matter to anyone but you. For me, it was fear. I stayed much longer than I should have because I was afraid of the unknown. I put up with some pretty bad behavior to me, and in front of my kids, because I was afraid. When I finally addressed that fear (with a very good therapist) and faced it head on, I was able to get unstuck. When I finally accepted my ex was acting in context to alcoholism, sober or not, I was able to get unstuck. When I finally stopped trying to understand and apply my own logic and reason to his behavior, I was able to get unstuck.

Life is completely different now, and none of my fears have become reality yet.

My kids are thriving again, my life is peaceful and quiet, I am enjoying it all again; the stressors that came with the uncertainty of alcoholism is gone, I am healthy and grounded in who I am and proud of myself today. It has been one of the hardest things I have had to do - change my own mind and perspectives - let go of my own stinkin thinkin...

But I am glad I made myself stand up and step off that crazy train ride. Best damn decision I've made in my life so far...

Take what works and all that jazz...
~T
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:30 AM
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In order to get my life under control, in order to remove the sickness and dysfunction of the alcoholic and the addict, I had to remove them from my life. Period. I have found no other way that brings me peace or serenity. And to remove them from my life, I have had to learn how to stand on my own two feet, in ALL areas of my life. I have had to learn how to be completely self-supporting and self-reliant. I have had to give up things in the short run in order to have peace and serenity in the long run. Alcoholism and addiction do not equate to peace or serenity. I would continue to be dysfunctional as long as I remained in a dysfunctional relationship, with a dysfunctional person.
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:57 AM
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Liz,
I agree that that the pity party is an excuse to drink or at least pave the way for other unhealthy behavior. My AH will call himself a loser, a horrible person... blah blah blah... as he takes sip after sip. It's like, since I SUCK already, I might as well not even try to get it together. It's an escape route.

Good luck to you.
L.

Last edited by Ellvk; 08-25-2012 at 09:58 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 08-25-2012, 10:00 AM
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This has been going on for a long time now. He simply doesn't want to stop drinking. Some alcoholics never reach a point where they want to stop. At least in Costa Rica he will not have to worry about his suspended drivers license because of his dui. I know that has been a huge issue.
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Old 08-25-2012, 10:01 AM
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I see where you are coming from Liz. You aren't ready to leave this relationship, and that's ok. The pain of staying has not become larger than the pain of leaving.
That said, I also think you are searching these boards for the enlightenment that will one day lead you to walk out that door.
Congrats on seeking your own growth.

When my xah was watching doomsday preppers all the time, bought the stuff for and created a "bug out" bag, and was stock piling guns AS WELL AS drinking everyday, I decided the environment was too unsafe for me.
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Old 08-25-2012, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by MadeOfGlass View Post
I see where you are coming from Liz. You aren't ready to leave this relationship, and that's ok. The pain of staying has not become larger than the pain of leaving.
That said, I also think you are searching these boards for the enlightenment that will one day lead you to walk out that door.
Congrats on seeking your own growth.

When my xah was watching doomsday preppers all the time, bought the stuff for and created a "bug out" bag, and was stock piling guns AS WELL AS drinking everyday, I decided the environment was too unsafe for me.
LOL, my ah wanted to do all this too, but he was too lazy to ever get started! Yes, I am always searching. My sponsor keeps reminding me that I need to pray multiple times a day for God's guidance for my marriage and wait until I get an answer. I guess I haven't gotten that answer because I don't feel it in my heart or maybe it's my own pride not listening. That's what I'm trying to determine.

Tuffgirl mentioned acceptance. I'm working on that. I accept him for what he is.....FINALLY. I accept that I am staying in a miserable marriage and I accept responsibility for that. I have decided that I can make some money doing pet sitting on the side and I have contacted a realtor friend of mine looking for part time opportunities that I can do at home. I also have a friend who's a manager at Pier 1 and they will be looking for seasonal help soon. It will all come together. I have set aside some cash and given it to a trusted friend to put in her safe. I have bought a few gift cards for myself for Target and Walmart. I cashed in a few savings bonds and have some gold jewelry that I plan on selling for cash( just have to check the gold prices these days). I even bought a few pairs of shoes recently just to make sure I'm covering my bases and won't have to spend money on that stuff in the near future. I have figured out that I can cancel cable, use Netflix, use the internet, and connect my computer to the TV for viewing shows on certain networks. I have even figured out ways to save on power and water usage if I felt the need.

I have thought about whether my son and I should be the ones who move out or if AH should go. I have considered(if marriage counseling doesn't make any positive movement) that I would propose that we all live in this house through the holidays, making things easier for our son especially since his birthday is in November.

So, all in all, I do think about my plans. I do mentally prepare for ALL possible outcomes. In my heart, though, I still feel stuck and I know it's fear and the fact that I committed to this marriage and still feel a draw to try everything to MAYBE fix it. Who knows? If anything, I will come out stronger in the long run!
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Old 08-25-2012, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by lizatola View Post
Yeah, when my AH went on Paxil the drinking actually increased. He's still on Paxil now and doesn't seem to think it's part of the problem.
Antidepressants are useless when the person is actively drinking. The alcohol completely cancels out the benefits.

I saw my psychiatrist earlier this week for a med check and just to catch up on things. Every time he sees me, he says it is such a joy to see me and I make his day.

Why? Because I recognize that the right medications are just part of a big package to my recovery and mental health. Pills are not a magic cure. He knows I also see a therapist, have made lifestyle changes, and practice a 12 step program on a daily basis.

What are you currently getting out of this marriage? You don't have to answer...just some food for thought.

Sending you hugs of support.
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Old 08-25-2012, 10:38 AM
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I'm wondering what your A husband finds helpful or useful about what he wrote there. What exactly is his point, I'm sure he can go to the bar , or to his best friend, or on the internet for that matter and be validated and then use it as a weapon to wound you more, to make you question yourself. I have to say Liz, what he wrote made me sick to my stomach, that you are again enduring more emotional trauma, these things seep into our psyches, it's very damaging.

When is enough enough. It's a circle jerk. In your heart of heart you have a real desire to make this work, his only real desire is to take no responsibility, to continue to live his life in denial and grandiosity, it won't change anytime soon is my guess. I hurt for you today.

It is possible to still spend the holidays together and not live together. If kicking his ass out is not his bottom, then he has many many more vicious and soul wounding words to hurl at you to get to continue his life as he sees fit.

He has shared that he thinks I'm being poisoned mentally by my sister's divorce and that I spend so much time helping her out on this, he might want to take a look at his own poisoning of your heart, caused by him, before he starts blaming your sister for his loss of marital closeness. Of course it's your sisters fault,

Take good care, love to you Katie
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Old 08-25-2012, 10:59 AM
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Not sure of which ones but a few anti-depressants were shown to INCREASE cravings in alcoholics. Also, the drinker can get drunk much quicker when mixing the meds with booze.
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Old 08-25-2012, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by lizatola View Post
Is this typical for someone on Paxil or someone who is active in their disease?
Does it really even matter? It doesn't change the fact that you and your son don't need to be hearing all of that.
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