SundayGirl2012

I'm pretty new to all this. Two weeks ago, I asked my bf to move out of my flat because of his drinking behaviour. This was the culmination of many months of increasingly 'full-blown' alcoholic behaviour from him - and a corresponding rise in anger and frustration from me.

This weekend, I went to visit a family member who's recently had surgery. I helped him out (e.g. did the cooking) and we had a nice time together (e.g. we took a walk in the countryside). I'd had a brief and fairly low-key conversation with my bf before I set off. He said he planned to visit his mother, look at flats (including one arranged by a friend who'd go with him) and possibly buy a new jacket. I should have known better than to believe him, I s'pose. Over the weekend, his texts to me became increasingly self-pitying. He repeatedly said he has no friends and feels lonely. Twice he said he wanted to kill himself - and I found it impossible not to plead with him not to do it. I tried phoning but he didn't pick up so I just texted (I didn't rush back). He has two daughters - I would find it difficult to live with the guilt if my actions contributed to the loss of their father. Yet I think he might only claim to be suicidal because I invariably react.

I found all these texts very stressful. I tried to respond calmly (e.g. "I'm sorry you feel that way. What would help you feel better?") but that didn't seem to help. After I got the suicide threats, I found it very difficult to maintain an even keel - he's threatened it before, but it just sounds so major. I tried re-reading the 'detachment' chapter of Melody Beattie but for some reason, it made me cry fiercely - not a great look for sitting on a train.

Anyway, I got back to my flat around 6pm and he's in bed. There's no sign he's been to see the flat as arranged, or to his mum's, and there's drinking detritus lying around. I'm hoping he'll sleep through till the morning, but I'm pretty sure he won't - not when there's an opportunity to wake up and berate me. Weekends are pretty rubbish lately - I'm looking forward to it being the beginning of the working week (he drinks less then).

So, my key questions are:
- What can I do about the suicide threats? They frighten me and upset me. I appreciate that I'm unlikely to stop them happening - but how can I stop reacting in a way that makes them even more likely to happen? And how can I be sure he won't carry out his threat one day?
- He's not taking steps to move out. How can I make him, without being overly heavy-handed? I really want my flat to feel like a peaceful haven, not somewhere I dread returning to.
- How can I get better at 'detaching with love'? How can I get better at not having a roller-coaster reaction, from pity to fury to uncontrollable sadness, in my conversations with him?

Of course, feel free to respond to anything I've written.
Thanks
SG

ZiggyB

Hi,
I'm sorry you're having to deal with this, suicide threats are very manipulative even if he is doing it unconsciously. You are not his therapist, tell him if he feels suicidal he needs to stop drinking and get some professional help preferably by a psychiatrist. Alcohol makes people depressed. I don't know how you can make him move out, what about changing the locks and moving his stuff elsewhere?

fourmaggie

ME? i would call the police when the next threat happens...crying wolf is not a good thing...

whos name is on the rental agreement? can you ask the landlord to change the locks and only give you the key? or just give a him a deadline when he needs to move out..with NO ENDS OR BUTS...he leaves then....if not, you lock him out...and threw all his stuff out...

dunno, if i am being harsh, but i who is on the rental agreement...and if he shows no sign of moving out, maybe you may have to....out on your own. Is there anyone you can stay with until YOU find a place?

fourmaggie

heres a link to the BEST OF SOBERRECOVERY:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ntion-day.html

SundayGirl2012

Fourmaggie, the mortgage is in my name only. He's never paid towards the mortgage or any bills. So I think I'm well within my rights to ask him to leave - but I don't know how to handle his apparent refusal to engage with the issue. He told me that he can't afford it - but he's paying all the mortgage and bills for a 4-bedroom house for his wife and her boyfriend and the wife's boyfriend's daughter to live in (it was the family home when he lived with his wife). The ABF's 2 daughters live there during their college vacations. So I figure he needs to rearrange how he splits the bills with his wife and her boyfriend, and it's not really any of my business.

However, I did read a text on ABF's phone this morning from his wife saying "I feel like my living arrangements depend on what SundayGirl decides she wants" - which made me feel bad. I don't want to inflict misery on ABF's wife or daughters - or indeed on the wife's boyfriend or his daughter.

Learn2Live

I think you should stop worrying about his feelings and start doing what you need to do to have the home and the life you want. I don't think there is a way to kick someone out of your home nicely. You have a drunk guy in your space sending you suicide texts. When did it become your responsibility to save someone's life? You're not a psychiatrist or an emergency medical technician, are you?

He's not going to go anywhere voluntarily. You have been taking care of him, just like he wanted; you are too nice or too afraid to be a bad guy and just kick him out, just like he wanted; and now you are scared he's going to kill himself and you feel responsible toward him and his daughters for HIS life, just like he wanted. You are being manipulated and controlled by classic alcoholic and addict tactics.

I say kick him out, change the locks, and put his stuff to the curb. Stop looking at his stupid text messages and stop taking his phone calls. You keep saying you don't want him to drink and live in your flat, but you keep letting him just ignore you and do whatever the hell HE wants. Stop being a doormat, take control of your life and your environment, and stop allowing yourself to be manipulated by this drunk. They are a dime a dozen.

SoaringSpirits

All this!
Get him out tomorrow. As in, go rent a storage locker, pay for 1-2 months rent on it, and pack up his gear and move it there. Give him the key. Change the locks on your flat. Get him out now, don't delay, just do it.

It's not your responsibility that he has obligations to a former wife and he's broke and he's drunk and he's whining about killing himself. Deal with your own life, let him deal with his. He's made his own bed, now let him lie in it. If he kills himself, that's his choice.

Good luck. Now go rent that storage space and call the locksmith.

Fathom

Hugs to you, SG.

We sound harsh, don't we? That's because there is no way to deal nicely with a person who disrespects you so much. The thing is... Everyone that you are worried about (your ABF, his X, and his two college-aged daughters) are all adults. They can all take care of themselves, and your responsibility does not extend into their lives.

I do understand your anxiety. I'm afraid that detaching from a suicide threat... Well, it's nearly impossible to hear a suicide threat and not feel anxious. "Isn't it a call for help? I should cheer him up... At least, I don't have to make things harder for him... Then, if he does follow through, I can say I did everything I can for him and it won't be my fault." the fact is, you are not at fault for any of his behavior. That responsibility falls squarely on his shoulders.

You are, however, allowing him to continue manipulating you and keeping you on edge. I know it is extremely difficult, but do not respond to him when he is talking crazy. If he is talking suicide, call the police. Get professionals involved. You are not the right person to be giving him advice. And, you are right that this behavior is destructive to both of you. Nip it in the bud now by standing firm on what is unacceptable to you.

Take care,
Fathom

fourmaggie

Learn2Live, you said it right on....

he is an grown adult...why not let him act like one now...
are you serious? you feel for this man because of this and that? and the highlite is HIM paying for all of his ex wifes expenses? you have been coned....*bringing in the fishing line with no fish on the end of it*

move fast and dont think...just do...this man is gonna bleed you dry...never mind you mind, body and soul...

so some SELF CARE and take care of you and your issues....
ooh and by the way...this is actually what addicts/alcoholis do best, THEY TAKE HOSTAGES

nothing changes until changes

lillamy

Next time, call the cops.
That'll either get him help or call his bluff.

lillamy

I should add to this that after I left AXH, I called and talked to a cop I know on the local force. She knew what had happened, and I told her even though he didn't succeed in committing suicide that night, he might make a more serious attempt again.

She listened to me and said, "You know what? You've done your part. You're out of this now. You called me and let me know, as a concerned citizen, that you were afraid this person, who is separate from you, might be suicidal. That's it. You've done everything anyone can ask of you."

She said, "I will tell you what will happen next: Because I've met him through you, I'm not going to get involved. But I will send two other female officers to his house tonight when they come on their shift, and I'll send them with the information that he is an alcoholic, potentially suicidal. They'll knock on his door -- and I'll send two females because he won't see them as a threat as much as he would a male officer -- and ask to chat with him, and then they'll just tell him that someone was concerned about his well-being and inform him what support is available in town. They'll leave some materials with him and their cards and tell him he can call them if he needs help to get hooked up with support. And then they'll leave."

I don't know if everyone would get that level of service, or if it was because I knew the shift commander or if it was because AXH is respected in the community -- but that's what they did. And that's the last time I heard that he was suicidal. Maybe he still is on occasion but he doesn't use that as an excuse to get me sucked back into his life anymore. Getting a visit from a couple of officers in uniform offering help was apparently embarrassment enough that he stopped that way of trying to suck me back in.

choublak

He's threatening you with suicide because it works. I have very little compassion for people who play the suicide card time and again to get their way. And I've noticed when people are using suicide threats as a tool to manipulate others, it works in a pattern. They threaten suicide ONLY when they feel they have no enablers left, when nothing is working in their favor anymore. They tell their enablers they want to commit suicide, and the enablers come back. Once these enablers return, the suicide threats stop and it's all good, until the enablers leave again, and then it's back to "boo hoo wah wah, nobody likes me I want to kill myself"...repeat however many times you wish to allow it to continue. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as harsh, but I've witnessed that dynamic between my parents so many times I'm now to the point where I find my father's suicide threats annoying and immature. Perhaps someday you will get to that point, too.

Regardless, you always have the option of calling the police if you truly feel he will take his own life.

SundayGirl2012

I really want to behave in a way that seems fair and reasonable to other people. They don't really see the full depths that ABF plunges to when he's having a binge. I don't want to appear a bitch here (or indeed, to behave like a bitch).
I'm concerned that calling the police may have a negative impact on his career. He's a doctor and he says that he can't get treatment for drinking or depression because he'd lose his job. Also next month, he's due to start as a volunteer policeman in his spare time.
From tomorrow, he's supposed to return to the family home for a few days to look after the pets/daughters while the wife and her boyfriend go on holiday. So I could probably change the locks then. But it seems unnecessarily vindictive - and likely to start a 'tit for tat' exchange of minor cruelties.
How can I act in a way that corresponds to my own values of behaving fairly, with kindness, etc - but gets the ABF out of my house?
Thanks for all your help and advice, I really do appreciate it.
SG

Fathom

Wow. I'd have to call bull that he can't get treatment because of his chosen profession. With a high-stress doctor job I'd think he would be encouraged to seek mental health treatment, even if it's just general maintenance therapy. Its not like he's the first one to have issues. But, really, would you like to have a drunken suicidal doctor working to make you better, or a drunken suicidal police officer trying to keep the streets safe? I'm not sure which would be worse. And, since when does a doctor have spare time to be a policeman???

((((SG))))

You don't have to be a pushover to be kind, nor do you have to be a bitter vindictive b*tch to maintain healthy boundaries. You will find a good middle ground that fits your style if you put your mind to it. The thing to remember is that kindness and fairness should work in more than one direction. If someone is not honoring and respecting you, you have no obligation to continue dealing with them as though they were honorable and respectful. You can choose to not interact with them anymore, and that's okay. Stop worrying about how others see you and your actions. Outsiders will not understand all the reasons you act the way you do. The important thing is that you understand and feel comfortable with who you are and what you stand for.

Take care,
Fathom

Learn2Live

You cannot control what other people think.

Do you realize there's an entire healthcare industry to treat alcoholism and addiction but to "protect" the alcoholic you are preventing that industry from actually helping this man? You are more worried about protecting your reputation and his job than you are about the people he may actually HARM by continuing in his profession?? Why do you think there are sanctions for health care professionals for being alcoholics and addicts?? To protect the people he is supposed to care for.

You cannot control this.

SundayGirl2012

I'm already looking forward to the peace and quiet from tomorrow evening when ABF returns to his family home to house-sit while his wife and her boyfriend are on holiday. I think I might do some serious tidying up and cleaning so it looks the way I like it, not the way it is with his crap all over the place. I'm a little worried about being lonely but I'll cope. I'm trying to decide whether to change the locks during that period - he would have nowhere to go after the wife's holiday (she's already told him he can't stay at the family house). I'd rather do this with his cooperation than without. (I think you might all be about to tell me that an alcoholic doesn't know how to cooperate).

I left a suicide helpline number on the table before I left for work this morning. I think he called it - he told me by text that he had an appointment, and the phone had moved when I got in. The tone of his texts to me has changed dramatically since those calls - now he's angry, accusing me of reeling him in, taking him for a ride, treating him like a mug. It doesn't upset me but I think it's weird compared with his tearful, self-pitying sobs of yesterday. But it will probably help me break my connection with him.

Things have moved very swiftly in only a few days. I thought we'd take a break from living together, remain friends, see how it went. Now he thinks I'm a scheming b*tch. I thought my A wasn't that bad, he's a good man underneath, he'd come to his senses and be the kind, loving bf I remember - I'd be rewarded for my compassion and patience, if you like. I'm coming to realise that you're all much more aware of what's going on in my world than me - and even though what you're telling me sounds harsh to my ears, it's probably the right thing to do for me.

Thanks, as always, for your advice and kind words (and the harsher words too!).
SG

ShootingStar1

Sunday Girl, have you considered that the reason that he has an ex-wife and an ex-family is that he has done this before and been evicted from their lives?

When I heard from my AH, whom I left 5 weeks ago, that he was going to marry a woman 25 years younger with 2 teenage boys, I was horrified that he intended to inflict his behavior on someone else. Either she was clueless, or she was mercenary and taking him for a ride, too.

Think long and hard about the position you are in.

I don't mean this to be too tough, but it is the reality of what I am seeing in my own life.

Beware of the spin an alcoholic can put on ANY situation when they want something.

BothSidesNow

Lulu39

YOU are NOT RESPONSIBLE for the consequences of his behaviour.

Stop believing that you can control the consequences of his behaviour.

Even if you were a multi multi millionaire and could do a Katie Holmes and split without any financial worries your ABF would still inflict misery on HIS WIFE and HIS DAUGHTERS and HIS WIFE'S BOYFRIEND.

HIS

They are not yours.

They ARE HIS.

Let HIS people worry about him.

Learn2Live

How are you, or would you, inflict harm or misery on these people? What he does is not your responsibility. You cannot control him, what he does, or other people's feelings.

SundayGirl2012

I took the advice of a few SR folk and went to my first Al-Anon meeting tonight. I was surprised by how much gratitude, and how little anger, there seemed to be. I recognised myself in the sharing of others. Many of them seemed very wise, especially given the things they'd suffered (or perhaps because of the things they'd suffered?).

I think I have a long way to go: I still think I should be a 'good girl' and not cause difficulties for the ABF's wife/daughters/wife's boyfriend/wife's boyfriend's daughter (and while I'm here, I shouldn't cause any uncomfortable feelings among my friends, family, colleagues - anyone at all). And I still think I can help the ABF - a bit. But I'm trying to live as if I don't think those things at all. Hearing from SR folks that I really can't control this stuff is helping me stay focussed and resolved. Thanks for your support, as always.

SG