How should I approach communicating with ABF while he is in rehab?
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live 
With AXBF, all the focus and attention had to be on HIM, and every single thought that went through his brain. I rarely had a moment's peace. I think I nearly went insane.
Back in March, when my mother was still open minded about this relationship, we planned a trip to visit her in NYC. It was a lovely weekend. The three of us got along great. And ABF got to meet some of my oldest friends. Everyone loved him. It was just fun.
(Except that I realized, and no one else did, that he had gotten a bottle of vodka hidden in the stairwell of my moms NY apt building. He didnt know that I knew what was going on. But I saw all the signs. He went out on Saturday morning to 'check the weather' then he stashed it in the stairwell and was taking swigs all weekend. It made me sick, but I ignored it, saying I didnt want to ruin our fun weekend.
I had told him before the weekend that my mother was very sensitive to overdrinking because of my father's alcoholism. This was a warning to him. I guess he learned from that lecture was that he had to drink in secret in stairwells. Later, I never brought it up with him. Because new incidents had emerged to render that one obsolete.
But anyway, when he and I left after the weekend was over, my mom and I were talking and she said that she had never seen me happier. I beamed, that meant so much to me, because after my years of depression my mom has seen me so sad too much.
But then she said, in a gentle voice, I notice that you two really like to talk to each other. You two talk so much. (I know this means he talks a lot). She said, Im so glad that you found someone that you love to speak to so much. But honey, I also know you are a person who needs a lot of quiet time, to read and reflect and just be silent. How are you meeting your own needs for silence in this relationship?
And I had no answer. Some of my most treasured memories in life are with friends and family sitting around reading. Nowadays its not that I never had quiet time with him. But I realize now that it is rare. Somtimes if the fates align I do. But mostly he interrupts at any moment. Now, if I sit reading on our couch, I am interrupted constantly.
I have tried speaking gently to him about not interrupting-- when I am speaking, when I am reading, when I am on the phone. Plus not interrupting others when they are speaking. Basic social skills. Skills that he teaches his own son!!!
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I think that, if you re-read your answers on this thread in the morning, you will find that you are answering your own questions. What is emerging is how much you don't like how you feel when you are with him, how distracted and interrupted from your own needs and goals you are when you are with him, and how distressing to the point of scary his behavior has been.
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Originally Posted by coffeeclouds
My perception of your A giving you a schedule seems controlling to me. If you feel like calling and he isn't available, well then, try again.
And I was wondering if you were peeking in my windows. He could spend hours on the phone, but if I were to do it, during business hours with colleagues no less, he always got pissed off, disruptive, and needy. good grief.
And I was wondering if you were peeking in my windows. He could spend hours on the phone, but if I were to do it, during business hours with colleagues no less, he always got pissed off, disruptive, and needy. good grief.
The flip/evilside: he has made it abundantly clear when he is available. My failure to contact him at those times shows I dont want to speak to him, hence do not love him, hence believe he should never have been born.
Back to real life, the prompt for him sending the schedule of rehab at all was that there were several times when I emailed and asked, are you free now? And then he reminded me of his meeting schedule in rehab.
So he sent that email to clarify THAT and WHEN he is free every day. The passive aggressive dig there, and yes, it is there, is that his schedule is the same every day, whereas mine is wild and free. So if he and I dont talk I will be to blame because he laid it out clear as can be, while I go run with the dolphins and leap with the lizards.
Is that controlling? Im not sure anymore.
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Originally Posted by emeraldsea
Thanks Seek, for your clear vote on the specific question. No, i dont have contact info for a counselor at his rehab to reach out to because I have not been involved in his treatment to date. This is just fine with me. I think he needs to face it all alone. I am not his wife at this point.
Maybe possibly I will propose to him that a three way phone conversation in a week or so might be a good way to talk through this issue of my living situation going forward for this first time. It seems like a reasonable planning for discharge sort of activity. I have no clue at this point how much longer he is planning to stay in the rehab facility. He hasn't raised that with me. I haven't wanted to interfere with his treatment. Then again, maybe I wont raise it at all. We shall see.
The other perspective comes from my friends and family who are advising me to pull a 'Katie Holmes', ie to say nothing, pretend all is good, wait until everything is in place with the new apartment and then BAM! Move out in one fell swoop. If I could move into a luxury building, like Katie did, I would do it! I think these people read too much People.
Now one reason I am extra hesistant to use this sudden run away approach is because this is what his ex wife did to ABF when she left him and it was horrible for him. She took their son, took 10K from the bank and left for a secret apartment she had rented nearby.
He has cried to me about her cruelty to him when she left him like that (When he and I were trying to have a romantic dinner, mind you. So the romance did not continue for us that night after that turn in the conversation. I dont think I was such a sympathetic ear to that sad story). In any case, her leaving clearly traumatized him and the way she left seems to have contributed a lot to the pain.
I would like to avoid that course of action if possible. So, wait: I am trying to heal the hurt of his exwife leaving him to help heal the pain both of that rupture and my getting my own place? When he was left both times because of his own behavior? Sigh.
My first thought when I head how she had fled, which I kept to myself and have not said to him, was that she must have been terrified by you to do that. She must have been planning for weeks. That is not just cowardice, as he sees it. To me, those are the actions of a scared lady, little as I want to/care to relate to her. It seems like the measure of last resort, or of someone who feared for their safety.
Yet ABF just sees himself as the victim of her cruelty, and her actions as nothing but betrayal.
But now that I have seen his rages. I too have feared for my safety around ABF. I can understand why someone would feel the need to leave under darkness of night, so to speak. He can be very and deliberately scary.
Maybe possibly I will propose to him that a three way phone conversation in a week or so might be a good way to talk through this issue of my living situation going forward for this first time. It seems like a reasonable planning for discharge sort of activity. I have no clue at this point how much longer he is planning to stay in the rehab facility. He hasn't raised that with me. I haven't wanted to interfere with his treatment. Then again, maybe I wont raise it at all. We shall see.
The other perspective comes from my friends and family who are advising me to pull a 'Katie Holmes', ie to say nothing, pretend all is good, wait until everything is in place with the new apartment and then BAM! Move out in one fell swoop. If I could move into a luxury building, like Katie did, I would do it! I think these people read too much People.
Now one reason I am extra hesistant to use this sudden run away approach is because this is what his ex wife did to ABF when she left him and it was horrible for him. She took their son, took 10K from the bank and left for a secret apartment she had rented nearby.
He has cried to me about her cruelty to him when she left him like that (When he and I were trying to have a romantic dinner, mind you. So the romance did not continue for us that night after that turn in the conversation. I dont think I was such a sympathetic ear to that sad story). In any case, her leaving clearly traumatized him and the way she left seems to have contributed a lot to the pain.
I would like to avoid that course of action if possible. So, wait: I am trying to heal the hurt of his exwife leaving him to help heal the pain both of that rupture and my getting my own place? When he was left both times because of his own behavior? Sigh.
My first thought when I head how she had fled, which I kept to myself and have not said to him, was that she must have been terrified by you to do that. She must have been planning for weeks. That is not just cowardice, as he sees it. To me, those are the actions of a scared lady, little as I want to/care to relate to her. It seems like the measure of last resort, or of someone who feared for their safety.
Yet ABF just sees himself as the victim of her cruelty, and her actions as nothing but betrayal.
But now that I have seen his rages. I too have feared for my safety around ABF. I can understand why someone would feel the need to leave under darkness of night, so to speak. He can be very and deliberately scary.
It also sounds like you need some support for yourself . . .I understand your rage and resentment AND it doesn't help you . . .I hope you can find a way to work through it and release it. I know from personal experience how poisonous rage and resentment can be. You have every right to be pissed and it is not an equal or reciprocal relationship, and that in itself is frustrating after awhile (and I am only a grandma to my "qualifier" - hate that term by the way - it is a full human being who is sick, sick, sick . . .
Something you might think about (I was just trying to sort this out for myself today) is about values . . .I realized MY values are not my grandson's values - I value honestly, reciprocal relationships, thoughtfulness, kindness, sincerity, good will . . .he has shown he does not value these things at this point (or last time I had an interchange with him) BUT he is young, and MAYBE he will grow up.
But if it were my boyfriend, a serious relationship that might lead to marriage and children (or not - don't know your circumstance) I would want the person to value the same things I value and hold dear - if their values are just the opposite, how would there ever be any meeting of the minds or peace in the household?
I value peace more than anything at the moment, and I cannot stomach the chaos of living in an alcohol fueled world.
If he is in rehab - he has issues - and he needs to sort those out and it is not an overnight or 30 day fix. It's a long road, with lots of bumps and potholes - you are either there for the long run (for some reason) or not . . .it is not something to take on lightly, in my estimation because the ABUSE is not good for your soul (or maybe there is no abuse in your case, but I have suffered from the craziness of alcoholic personalities and it was never pleasant).
And rage is not a quality I want in my household.
I am old - but you are young and you get to have the life you CHOOSE.
To thine own self be true.
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I too have almost gone insane from the constant, relentless stream of chatter. It is not cute or inocuous. It is hurtful. The interruptions are disrespectful.
I'm pretty sure it was pot though, not alcohol.
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My ex Ah was in rehab for 3 months..
Oh to have hindsight. We spoke 4 times a week. I flew over every 3rd weekend. If I had my time again I would have done it very differently.
Problem is for myself.. I wouldnt say I was a codie, was the lure of what rehab promised was very different to the reality. I saw my partner as someone very very damaged .. The booze was just the convient excuse that masked huge underlying problems. I was her rock and I read that really a AH( we had been seeing each other for 4 years) should be single as recovery is hard. Well its just as hard for the partner in that a whole new unkown is bought to bare.. the angst of not knowing, the blame game and the fact that socially drinking is not a option( for me in front of her ).
I would have broken it off in hindsight. If it had been meant to be time would of taken care of it. Lets face it its rare to read a happily ever after tale on SR.
Oh to have hindsight. We spoke 4 times a week. I flew over every 3rd weekend. If I had my time again I would have done it very differently.
Problem is for myself.. I wouldnt say I was a codie, was the lure of what rehab promised was very different to the reality. I saw my partner as someone very very damaged .. The booze was just the convient excuse that masked huge underlying problems. I was her rock and I read that really a AH( we had been seeing each other for 4 years) should be single as recovery is hard. Well its just as hard for the partner in that a whole new unkown is bought to bare.. the angst of not knowing, the blame game and the fact that socially drinking is not a option( for me in front of her ).
I would have broken it off in hindsight. If it had been meant to be time would of taken care of it. Lets face it its rare to read a happily ever after tale on SR.
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in the AA program, they say for 1 year its about the A getting SOBER, nothing more...hence, meaning they try to stay away from relationships and intimite ones...its all new to them, its confusing time and they need to focus on getting SOBER...with that being said...why would you want to disrupt that? he needs to do what he needs to do...
you can make choices now...lots of them, FREEDOM to do what you always wanted to do, take a chance, you may like it...
you can make choices now...lots of them, FREEDOM to do what you always wanted to do, take a chance, you may like it...
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Originally Posted by sugarbear1
He's skyping from rehab? Why isn't he working on rehab stuff??
Take care of you right now. He isn't working on changing just yet.
Love & hugs,
Take care of you right now. He isn't working on changing just yet.
Love & hugs,
Email? He sends those to me too.
I ask just because it doesnt seem impossible to be in touch with loved ones and also be focused on your program. Theoretically at least.
I guess the medium doesn't matter. It all that necessarily a sign of distraction from his work? Is it all reaching externally when he should be looking inside?
But maybe you're right...this reminds me of a conversation from a few weeks ago in which he reported that one of the other guys there will be a great 'business contact' for him when they both get out.
This other guy is also lawyer and apparently they have bonded through working out at the rehab gym. My thought was, What?? why are you the two of you strategizing about work stuff?? It just seemed off to me.
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Originally Posted by fourmaggie
in the AA program, they say for 1 year its about the A getting SOBER, nothing more...hence, meaning they try to stay away from relationships and intimite ones...its all new to them, its confusing time and they need to focus on getting SOBER...with that being said...why would you want to disrupt that? he needs to do what he needs to do...
'OK, I understand no new relationships for at least a year. But how does that apply to existing relationships? Is AA's advice really to break up with ones SO upon entering rehab?'
I still haven't heard a clear answer on that one. It doesn't seem it's that cut and dry.
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Originally Posted by webber1
I read that really a AH( we had been seeing each other for 4 years) should be single as recovery is hard. Well its just as hard for the partner in that a whole new unkown is bought to bare.. the angst of not knowing, the blame game and the fact that socially drinking is not a option( for me in front of her ).
So it will be just as hard for the non-addicted SO to deal with a newly recovering person, as it will be for the A to deal with trying to juggle recovery and relationship. This idea is making more sense now. Thanks!
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They allowed him out of rehab to go buy a web cam? That's crazy in itself.
I think focusing outside on YOU is not healthy and I am surprised the rehab doesn't have a boundary around such stuff.
They usually want the families involved, but in a structured way on weekends, to attend meetings and for short visits . . .but Sykpe any old time? That seems counterproductive.
People do bond in rehab - and talk about everything, so talking about the future and work is not weird - they are just people having an experience together for a short time. Thirty days is nothing in my estimation.
I think focusing outside on YOU is not healthy and I am surprised the rehab doesn't have a boundary around such stuff.
They usually want the families involved, but in a structured way on weekends, to attend meetings and for short visits . . .but Sykpe any old time? That seems counterproductive.
People do bond in rehab - and talk about everything, so talking about the future and work is not weird - they are just people having an experience together for a short time. Thirty days is nothing in my estimation.
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well, i would ask you this...do you want him SOBER? would you do anything for him to stay like that?....let him work his recovery...there has to be a balance/boundaries in this...
what do you want for you? what is your gut saying...?
there is high expectations that he will relapse...if this relationship is real, be patient and work your program as he works his...yes AA and AL ANON doe work together but the first year is the important one...
what do you want for you? what is your gut saying...?
there is high expectations that he will relapse...if this relationship is real, be patient and work your program as he works his...yes AA and AL ANON doe work together but the first year is the important one...
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seek posted Thirty days is nothing in my estimation
it does not stop there...
here in my community its like this...one week abouts in detox, then 30 days in recovery, then 1 year in a SAFE house[meaning no alcohol in building and very stricked rules, meetings, volunteer work(giving back to the community), curfew, etc] and when established after one year, meaning a job, they can move to another community house for another 2 years with a % to be responsible in paying rent, divorces, child support...etc...its all changing the everything...this is why its called a LIFESTYLE CHANGE...(any 12 step program in an everyday, on going achievement) your in it for LIFE, not just for today....
it does not stop there...
here in my community its like this...one week abouts in detox, then 30 days in recovery, then 1 year in a SAFE house[meaning no alcohol in building and very stricked rules, meetings, volunteer work(giving back to the community), curfew, etc] and when established after one year, meaning a job, they can move to another community house for another 2 years with a % to be responsible in paying rent, divorces, child support...etc...its all changing the everything...this is why its called a LIFESTYLE CHANGE...(any 12 step program in an everyday, on going achievement) your in it for LIFE, not just for today....
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Originally Posted by emeraldsea
A sincere question: Would you say the same thing if I said he wanted to talk on the phone daily? Is skyping different than talking on the phone? We have no other option now, since I am abroad. He went out and bought a webcam so 'we can see each other as well as talk.'
Email? He sends those to me too.
I ask just because it doesnt seem impossible to be in touch with loved ones and also be focused on your program. Theoretically at least.
Email? He sends those to me too.
I ask just because it doesnt seem impossible to be in touch with loved ones and also be focused on your program. Theoretically at least.
What do you want?
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Originally Posted by Hypatia
Emeraldsea, you keep talking about what he does and what he wants.
What do you want?
What do you want?
One thing I know for sure is that I'm not happy now or at peace. So, to begin with the basics, if happiness and peace of mind are goals, then I should think about what interferes with that and what enhances that.
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