Is it manipulative...
 

When people (parents etc.) criticize you, and then go on to say, "oh, but you shouldn't care what I think". It feels like it is, but I don't know.

i guess it a form of "take what you want and leave the rest" attitude

time to start letting go of other peoples behaviours and what not...its not your responsiblity, your responsilblity is YOU and how you react and handle it...

That phrase is just words, to understand whether it's manipulative or not you need to look at the context, especially at your usual relationship with the person saying it.

My mother uses a similar phrase, "Well, but I guess you just need to learn that for yourself." Sometimes she is really trying to lay a guilt trip on me... other times she's recognizing that she's trying to impose her opinions on me, isn't quite ready to admit that, and so that's her phrase to back out of the conversation as gracefully as she knows how.

To determine which one she's doing I need to pay attention to the tone of her voice and then the course of the conversation after she says that.
If she sounds manipulative, or if she keeps bringing the conversation up again throughout the course of the day ("One more thing I thought about..." etc) I know she's guilt-tripping/manipulating.
If she drops the conversation at that point, and her voice when she's saying that phrase and her intonations in the sentence sounds more like the interest and intonation someone would use to say, "But enough about that, let's talk about something more interesting!" then she's truly letting go and accepting that we don't see eye to eye on this issue.

Well, she'll criticize me about something, and then I'll mention something good I've done, and she'll respond with, " it doesn't matter what I think, you need to do it for you".

Manipulative isn't the word I would use. I agree that you shouldn't care what anyone thinks of you as long as 'you' believe you are living a good life that brings you happiness. That said, when your Mother points something out to you, she may be trying to tell you that she sees potential in you that you are wasting. But if you believe your life is good and you are happy, then it doesn't matter what she thinks (Is how I see her meaning)

Choublak, are you navel gazing again....?

As far as her response to you telling her about something good you have done, she is reiterating her beliefs-It doesn't matter what she thinks. She is consistent.

But these conversations happen a lot, and when she gets started it's like, there will be one main thing that she's concerned about, but instead of focusing on just that, she'll bring up every. single. thing. that she either doesn't like, or that bothers her i.e., "you need to hurry up and decide what you're going to do to make some income" which I get, I get that. But then she follows it up with, "and you spend too much time on the computer...and you need to dress better (read: more like her)..." it's like a laundry list of flaws. I could be being rediculous though.

And if she believes it only matters what I think, why does she keep bringing up other crap?

I have learned that trying to figure out other people is a waste of time. You can never get in her head and figure out if she is trying to manipulate you or not. And even if she isn't consciously manipulating, she may be doing it subconsciously. I just doesn't matter.

Whatever her intentions or psychological pathos, figuring it out still gets you nowhere.

Do you feel manipulated? Do these conversations leave you feeling good about yourself or bad? If you don't want to have these type of conversations, then why are you? "Gotta go now," is my favorite way to end a conversation I don't want to be in.

L

World English Dictionary
manipulate (məˈnɪpjʊˌleɪt)

— vb
1. ( tr ) to handle or use, esp with some skill, in a process or action: to manipulate a pair of scissors
2. to negotiate, control, or influence (something or someone) cleverly, skilfully, or deviously
3. to falsify (a bill, accounts, etc) for one's own advantage
4. (in physiotherapy) to examine or treat manually, as in loosening a joint

How do you subconsciously manipulate someone though? I thought that had to be something where the person who is doing the manipulating knows exactly what they're doing.

Not at all. Looking back, I can clearly see how I tried to use shame and guilt to manipulate my XAH. At the time though, I just thought I was being "right."

Again, I stress---it doesn't matter. What matters is you and how you feel about it.

L

I posted the definition above.

Let's look at this...some says something blah blah blah and then says "oh but you shouldn't care what I think"... what is that person REALLY saying? To me, they are saying what they mean and then dismissing their own words. To me, THEY put out there what they believe and feel to be right or true but then actually dismiss what they believe or think to be true. WHY would they do that? Did you question yourself after they said that? Did you say internally, "hey wait - I SHOULD care what they think!!" Well if you did then their mission was accomplished and it was extremely manipulative behavior.

Look into passive-aggressive behaviors. Very manipulative stuff indeed!!

Just my thoughts. :)

But why would someone say what they mean just so they could dismiss their own words?

Sometimes it becomes a subconscious trait; ingrained into their personality. They say manipulative things or cross the line in certain ways and they don't even know they are doing it.


I think it crosses the line to judge like this:

But then she follows it up with, "and you spend too much time on the computer...and you need to dress better (read: more like her)..." it's like a laundry list of flaws. I could be being rediculous though.

Whoever is doing that to you is crossing the line and should really look at themselves and worry about themselves and keep their nose out of your business. I really hate it when people judge like that. Out of some weird anger I feel brewing inside of me regarding this I would have said "come back to me when you are the flawless perfect goddess of the universe and then I will listen" oh that was bad...sorry....forget i said that :)

They are NOT dismissing their own words insomuch as making them more powerful...do you see how powerful these words have become? THAT my dear is manipulation and they knew exactly what they were doing...

Yeah but her words become more powerful only because I allow them to be by how I react to them, right?

Now you're getting somewhere.............

L

Yes. Alanon teaches us to stop reacting...stop the knee-jerk reactions. But when you question the intentions of what someone says like in the OP yes that was a manipulating statement. The only person you should worry about is yourself and doing what is best for you. It seems to me whoever the person is, they are trying to tell you what THEY think you should do. That is none of their business. Only YOU know what is best for you and what you need to do to feel good about yourself. Others can offer suggestions in a healthy way but from what I read above it seems to be very passive-aggressive behavior (ie...computer use and how you dress) Ultimately it's up to you to interpret what you think. I was not there so honestly I don't know. However, based on my past experiences in life it seems to me this person is being manipulative. Hope this helps you :)

That's another thing, whenever she talks to me like this she's like, "it's not my intention to upset you or to make you mad, but..." and I usually do get mad, and raise my voice, to which she's then constantly interrupting me with, "lower your voice" so yeah it's like I fall into a trap that she conned me into helping her set. I don't know.

If that is NOT he intention then what IS her intention? Obviously she KNOWS whatever she is about to say to you is going to do just that, make you mad and raise your voice". She is making a statement by framing her intentions from the get go...before she's even said anything. I would suggest if this ever happens again to ask her - stop her in her tracks and ask her before she says ANYTHING to clarify her intentions then. You can always say you are not willing to listen to what she has to say if she starts off framing what she is about to say with crap like that.

Repeat after me:

"Gotta go now.."

"Oh, someone's at the door..."

"I was just on my way out the door..."

You don't have to have these conversations Choublak.

L