Alcoholics can't love, right?
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Alcoholics can't love, right?
Please, I need reminders today that alcoholics can't love and can't be in healthy relationships. I'm feeling reminiscent of the man I fell in love with and knew in my heart he loved me too. We were a good fit for each other, we could make each other laugh, and I thought we were best friends.
Addiction turned my AH into an uncaring monster. That empty, apathetic stare in his eyes the many times I was crying and pleading with him not to walk away from our marriage -- it haunts me.
Addiction turned my AH into an uncaring monster. That empty, apathetic stare in his eyes the many times I was crying and pleading with him not to walk away from our marriage -- it haunts me.
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Join Date: May 2012
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Remember, they are sick...with a serious illness. They love you in their own way. But as long as they drink, they love the bottle more. They cannot love you the way you would expect. Plus, if you interfere with drinking in anyway...even if it is in their mind, they hate you.
Plus, this is a progressive disease. It gets worse! As it gets worse, what used to be...well just CAN'T be.
I am so sorry you are hurting! We here understand. Please be extra kind to yourself today, OK?
Plus, this is a progressive disease. It gets worse! As it gets worse, what used to be...well just CAN'T be.
I am so sorry you are hurting! We here understand. Please be extra kind to yourself today, OK?
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Originally Posted by Birdgurl 
Remember, they are sick...with a serious illness. They love you in their own way. But as long as they drink, they love the bottle more. They cannot love you the way you would expect. Plus, if you interfere with drinking in anyway...even if it is in their mind, they hate you.
Plus, this is a progressive disease. It gets worse! As it gets worse, what used to be...well just CAN'T be.
Plus, this is a progressive disease. It gets worse! As it gets worse, what used to be...well just CAN'T be.
I learned the hard way that A's will turn on me if I come between them and their beloved bottle. I complained one too many times about my AH being away from home (for drinking activities) and in an instant our marriage was over. He was a robot, unaffected by anything. Didn't stop me from fighting for us for months, trying to be understanding and patient all the while my AH was a complete jerk to me. That is part of my frustration currently, that I let someone treat me so poorly. I just kept going back for more though because I was expecting a normal reaction, i.e. we are in this together lets make our marriage work. Early in our separation, I sent him a love letter and he actually got mad at me! I didn't know at the time that I wasn't fighting for a marriage I was fighting alcoholism.
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I think I kept going back for more because the A's behavior is so unbelievable that we really can't believe it. We think there MUST be a way we can through to them, somehow. So we keep trying. This might work with a normal person, but not with an addict.
I could tell you tales of unbelievable emotional cruelty and coldness inflicted on me by my AX, but at this point, I can't even bear to write them out. I just want to move on. I am dating a normal guy now and the difference in his behavior from my AX is shocking. The new guy is communicative, dependable, thoughtful, and wants to spend time with me, not go out drinking. I still miss the good parts of my relationship with AX, but when I think of all the cruelty I put up with when I could have been dating a regular guy who made me feel wanted, not despised...
I think only time helps the aftermath wreckage of life with an A. That and therapy. And realizing that they don't want our love, it only reminds them of how little they love themselves.
I could tell you tales of unbelievable emotional cruelty and coldness inflicted on me by my AX, but at this point, I can't even bear to write them out. I just want to move on. I am dating a normal guy now and the difference in his behavior from my AX is shocking. The new guy is communicative, dependable, thoughtful, and wants to spend time with me, not go out drinking. I still miss the good parts of my relationship with AX, but when I think of all the cruelty I put up with when I could have been dating a regular guy who made me feel wanted, not despised...
I think only time helps the aftermath wreckage of life with an A. That and therapy. And realizing that they don't want our love, it only reminds them of how little they love themselves.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Dear mmK11, I understand what you are talking about. I understand the pain, as I have felt it, also.
That old person is being eaten away by the monster disease inside him. The disease is in control of the man. It is a constant internal battle with the monster gaining more and more territory. He, himself, is helpless over the disease unless he surrenders to a rigorous program of recovery.
I agree with Birdgurl, the monster disease sees you as an obstacle to its desire---the ability to drink.
The alcoholic is incapable of loving you the way you want/need. It won't fit with the program of drinking that the monster drives them to maintain. The ability to feel and show love that they once had is being progressively eroded away. You will never get though to him by your logic or love feelings you have for him alone.
Some articles by Floyd P. Garrett, MD. helped me to understand this more than anything I have read. You can access them on the website: Psychiatry and Wellness.com
You might find them if you use the "search" at the top of this page, also.
The more you learn, I have found, the less victimized you will feel.
Recovery is the only answer for him as well as for you (your own recovery program).
I extend my greatest empathy to you.
dandylion
That old person is being eaten away by the monster disease inside him. The disease is in control of the man. It is a constant internal battle with the monster gaining more and more territory. He, himself, is helpless over the disease unless he surrenders to a rigorous program of recovery.
I agree with Birdgurl, the monster disease sees you as an obstacle to its desire---the ability to drink.
The alcoholic is incapable of loving you the way you want/need. It won't fit with the program of drinking that the monster drives them to maintain. The ability to feel and show love that they once had is being progressively eroded away. You will never get though to him by your logic or love feelings you have for him alone.
Some articles by Floyd P. Garrett, MD. helped me to understand this more than anything I have read. You can access them on the website: Psychiatry and Wellness.com
You might find them if you use the "search" at the top of this page, also.
The more you learn, I have found, the less victimized you will feel.
Recovery is the only answer for him as well as for you (your own recovery program).
I extend my greatest empathy to you.
dandylion
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
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One of the best quotes I have heard, and I have heard it from AA folks as well, is
Alcoholics don't have relationships, they take hostages.
I don't know how my wife thinks or what she feels. From my point of view though she is incapable of love as I know it.
Your friend,
Alcoholics don't have relationships, they take hostages.
I don't know how my wife thinks or what she feels. From my point of view though she is incapable of love as I know it.
Your friend,
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Generally, yes they are emotionally unavailable...
I also saw my A. become very angry if I ever said anything about his excessive drinking and going to bars. His mantra was "I will do what I want and you should have nothing to say about it."
Of course that also meant putting up with his mood swings, critical and nitpicking behavior, and verbal abuse.
There were times when he could be the most loving person but he definitely was more in love with the bottle than he was with me. Nothing will ever come between him and his booze. I understand how you feel as I definitely loved my ex and still do, but he will never change.
I also saw my A. become very angry if I ever said anything about his excessive drinking and going to bars. His mantra was "I will do what I want and you should have nothing to say about it."
Of course that also meant putting up with his mood swings, critical and nitpicking behavior, and verbal abuse.
There were times when he could be the most loving person but he definitely was more in love with the bottle than he was with me. Nothing will ever come between him and his booze. I understand how you feel as I definitely loved my ex and still do, but he will never change.
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"You can't change a pickle back into a cucumber" (he's the same person today he was before). The alcoholics' love affair is with booze; it is their higher power, God, best friend, love of their life. People don't matter.
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My thoughts on this are that there is no blanket statement. I have decided that I need to search and listen to that little voice I have, the one I ignored for so long. What does that little voice tell me. I think it will be different for everyone based on individual circumstances and partners.
For me personally I believe in my heart that I was loved. I think the love was genuine and real. As time went on, and alcoholism marched forward and claimed more and more of the man and of our relationship, it became clear that our goals/needs/desires were at odds. The one thing that umbrella-ed all his actions/emotions/values/goals/relationships (alcoholism) was the one thing destroying all mine. Love no longer really mattered.
I do not believe that even alcoholism is strong enough to take away the history of my life and my relationship truths. The truth of my history is that I met and a married a man that I loved and that loved me. We built a life and created children. Alcoholism was there when I married him and it was there when I divorced him. It made it impossible to continue a life with him and it eroded the foundation we had when we first met. It became all consuming and that was the truth of the matter when we divorced but it doesn't change the truth of the matter when we were married either.
That works both ways and we give to much power to love. I think the truth is that my ex loves his children. The truth is also that he has chosen to live so far away that he only sees them once a year. Their truth is that he is not here for them. Love isn't enough.
My wedding day was hands down one of the happiest days of my life and it is terribly sad to me that I did not get the shiny perfect future I had envisioned when I said 'I do.' Alcoholism is a particularly painful twist because it is so sneaky and manipulative but relationships end every day (alcoholism or not) and that doesn't mean that they weren't real ya know?
Now - my xah is just a guy - no under lying personality disorders to complicate things. I'm sure it makes a difference.
This post is all over the place. I clearly have more thinking to do on this.
For me personally I believe in my heart that I was loved. I think the love was genuine and real. As time went on, and alcoholism marched forward and claimed more and more of the man and of our relationship, it became clear that our goals/needs/desires were at odds. The one thing that umbrella-ed all his actions/emotions/values/goals/relationships (alcoholism) was the one thing destroying all mine. Love no longer really mattered.
I do not believe that even alcoholism is strong enough to take away the history of my life and my relationship truths. The truth of my history is that I met and a married a man that I loved and that loved me. We built a life and created children. Alcoholism was there when I married him and it was there when I divorced him. It made it impossible to continue a life with him and it eroded the foundation we had when we first met. It became all consuming and that was the truth of the matter when we divorced but it doesn't change the truth of the matter when we were married either.
That works both ways and we give to much power to love. I think the truth is that my ex loves his children. The truth is also that he has chosen to live so far away that he only sees them once a year. Their truth is that he is not here for them. Love isn't enough.
My wedding day was hands down one of the happiest days of my life and it is terribly sad to me that I did not get the shiny perfect future I had envisioned when I said 'I do.' Alcoholism is a particularly painful twist because it is so sneaky and manipulative but relationships end every day (alcoholism or not) and that doesn't mean that they weren't real ya know?
Now - my xah is just a guy - no under lying personality disorders to complicate things. I'm sure it makes a difference.
This post is all over the place. I clearly have more thinking to do on this.
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Thumper, thank you dearly for your post. It brought tears to my eyes. Also enlightened me to another perspective that I have kept in the dark and in the back of my mind: that is I was really loved, I felt loved, and my AH was once able to love me. That changed of course because I was the third wheel in his r/s with alcohol, but I can console myself that our r/s wasn't a complete farce. It just evolved, or rather devolved, into something that was no longer what I wanted or needed.
Thanks everyone also for your posts, I really need the support today and all of your kindness and thoughtfulness is very special to me.
Thanks everyone also for your posts, I really need the support today and all of your kindness and thoughtfulness is very special to me.
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Join Date: Feb 2011
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Thank you Thumper for your post. It has taken me a while to accept that we really did love each other and had "everything" we ever dreamed of for many years. I have had more in my life than most and I cherish those memories.
But the disease progressed and he began to realign his priorities.
Now its all about his ability to drink when and how much he wants.
mmk11-Its so sad to watch them disappear. I know my AH has been willing to give up all the things he once loved so that he does not have to give up the one thing he does love-his obsession. I know I could not have a healthy relationship with someone like that. Right now my AH has isolated himself from most of the close friends and family we had. He has "fleeting" intense relationships with people because he so desperately wants to feel loved and in love. However he is not available for them and they quickly move on. I know towards the end my AH was great as long as it was all about him and stroking his ego but there was little return for when I needed support.
I now I deserve more and want more in my relationships. Sadly, I must remember that even though I once was able to get that from him he is no longer able to give that to anyone.
But the disease progressed and he began to realign his priorities.
Now its all about his ability to drink when and how much he wants.
mmk11-Its so sad to watch them disappear. I know my AH has been willing to give up all the things he once loved so that he does not have to give up the one thing he does love-his obsession. I know I could not have a healthy relationship with someone like that. Right now my AH has isolated himself from most of the close friends and family we had. He has "fleeting" intense relationships with people because he so desperately wants to feel loved and in love. However he is not available for them and they quickly move on. I know towards the end my AH was great as long as it was all about him and stroking his ego but there was little return for when I needed support.
I now I deserve more and want more in my relationships. Sadly, I must remember that even though I once was able to get that from him he is no longer able to give that to anyone.
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Join Date: May 2012
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I think it is ridiculous that we have to ask this question--do they love?
Of course they love, but they have confused us to the point that we ask this question. I've asked it myself.
Ridiculous in that their lives get that far out of control. If I was an alcoholic, I would be horrified to see the title of this thread--as if Alcoholics are zombies.
Well maybe that is exactly what they need--to be horrified in return--not as a vindictive action, but to make them aware that they should value love over alcohol, maybe even spur a few into action...bottom line in my belief-- alcoholism, like most issues, is a matter of priorities.
Love should be an obvious no-brainer priority.
Feeling a little judgmental today....
Of course they love, but they have confused us to the point that we ask this question. I've asked it myself.
Ridiculous in that their lives get that far out of control. If I was an alcoholic, I would be horrified to see the title of this thread--as if Alcoholics are zombies.
Well maybe that is exactly what they need--to be horrified in return--not as a vindictive action, but to make them aware that they should value love over alcohol, maybe even spur a few into action...bottom line in my belief-- alcoholism, like most issues, is a matter of priorities.
Love should be an obvious no-brainer priority.
Feeling a little judgmental today....
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MoG, I felt at times this spring leading up to our separation that is exactly what my AH was, a zombie. The walking dead, the lights are on but no one's home, robot, blank stare. As if i wasn't even there in front of him crying and begging. that look on his face was so chilling, I see it in my mind and can't shake it. Today that makes me feel angry and my chest tightens. I want to scream at him! I know it will be futile.
Also futile now is listening to AH's rantings. I indulged him for months but I'm not so much any more. I feel foolish offering advice at times when I can easily (though not as easy as before) get sucked into my AH's BS, but last week after an intense convo with AH, he asked me if he could get something off his chest that was bothering him; I said no, but he could tell someone else. Months ago I would've said oh yes, please tell me!
Also futile now is listening to AH's rantings. I indulged him for months but I'm not so much any more. I feel foolish offering advice at times when I can easily (though not as easy as before) get sucked into my AH's BS, but last week after an intense convo with AH, he asked me if he could get something off his chest that was bothering him; I said no, but he could tell someone else. Months ago I would've said oh yes, please tell me!
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I felt I had 4 different people I was married to. My wife, who appeared less and less as the disease progressed, the stranger - someone I just didn't seem to know anymore, zombie woman - that says enough and bitch woman, again, nuff said. By the time I was moving out pretty much all I was seeing was zombie woman and bitch woman, even the stranger was starting to fade.
Your friend,
Your friend,
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Mike, I really like this. It's so true -- my husband was a different person at times. Normal (the guy I loved), zombie, alike (angry, blaming, criticizing), and cluster f*** (thoughts/actions/behavior/speech are all over the damn place).
Originally Posted by m1k3
I felt I had 4 different people I was married to. My wife, who appeared less and less as the disease progressed, the stranger - someone I just didn't seem to know anymore, zombie woman - that says enough and bitch woman, again, nuff said. By the time I was moving out pretty much all I was seeing was zombie woman and bitch woman, even the stranger was starting to fade.
Your friend,
Your friend,
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My exAH felt love for me, he felt and feels enormous love for his children.
is that enough? no.
he ALSO felt bitter, enraged hatred, paranoid fear that I was having an affair, entitlement to access to my body no matter what I felt about it, compulsion to drink until he passed out repeatedly during the same day, a need to control, victimised when ever he didn't get his own way or anything went wrong, blah, blah blah.
feelings aren't facts.
he feels love: it makes no difference.
is that enough? no.
he ALSO felt bitter, enraged hatred, paranoid fear that I was having an affair, entitlement to access to my body no matter what I felt about it, compulsion to drink until he passed out repeatedly during the same day, a need to control, victimised when ever he didn't get his own way or anything went wrong, blah, blah blah.
feelings aren't facts.
he feels love: it makes no difference.
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Join Date: Sep 2009
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This thread topic pops up regularly. Folks asking if A's really can love us or not.
For me, the focus is finally on me.
Do I love him?
Do we respect ourselves and each other enough to be happy together, productive?
What do I want? Can he meet me in the middle?
No. no no no no.
For me, the focus is finally on me.
Do I love him?
Do we respect ourselves and each other enough to be happy together, productive?
What do I want? Can he meet me in the middle?
No. no no no no.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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Originally Posted by MadeOfGlass
I think it is ridiculous that we have to ask this question--do they love?
Of course they love, but they have confused us to the point that we ask this question. I've asked it myself.
.
Of course they love, but they have confused us to the point that we ask this question. I've asked it myself.
.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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I have pondered this many times with my wife. I don't think they feel true love, maybe because it was never shown to them. The times I felt loved the most from her was when I felt I was there for her, be it emotional, physical or financial. If for some reason I couldn't be there, like when I spent 2 days in the hospital and she hardly came to see me, or when I was sick at home with a high fever and she went camping. I didn't feel loved.
Or when on our wedding night, a very long stressful day, she wanted to be drunk and awake until 5am. And when I said I would like to rest the next day, instead of taking a short trip we had planed, she said shewould go by her self.
I'm not sure there was ever true love. I wanted to see it so I did. Now though I think I was just her enabler, I played that part very well.
Or when on our wedding night, a very long stressful day, she wanted to be drunk and awake until 5am. And when I said I would like to rest the next day, instead of taking a short trip we had planed, she said shewould go by her self.
I'm not sure there was ever true love. I wanted to see it so I did. Now though I think I was just her enabler, I played that part very well.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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I am in love with an alcoholic.
I know he loves and cares about me.
But, I am in love with an alcoholic. If he doesn't love and respect himself first, he won't be able to love and respect me.
Being in love with an addict is by far one of the hardest things in this world. You love, care, hope, wish always for the best...but it all comes down to him...his actions.
I send my love to all of you hurting out there. I am equally hurting. Is not easy.
One thing that I can guarantee is that you will have many ups and many, many, many downs, but at the end everything will be ok. Time helps! You are worth something, you deserve peace in your heart.
All of this because we are in love with an alcoholic.
I know he loves and cares about me.
But, I am in love with an alcoholic. If he doesn't love and respect himself first, he won't be able to love and respect me.
Being in love with an addict is by far one of the hardest things in this world. You love, care, hope, wish always for the best...but it all comes down to him...his actions.
I send my love to all of you hurting out there. I am equally hurting. Is not easy.
One thing that I can guarantee is that you will have many ups and many, many, many downs, but at the end everything will be ok. Time helps! You are worth something, you deserve peace in your heart.
All of this because we are in love with an alcoholic.
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