Blogs


Notices

Had a talk with AH; interesting

Old 08-06-2012, 02:49 PM
  # 101 (permalink)  
Member
 
NYCDoglvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,247
Fascinating thread. What helped me see more clearly was this: one day I realized that even though I complained and expressed anger, the action of staying with an alcoholic said I agreed with him. By being with him I went along with his drinking, rage, lies and abuse.

After one of my typical rants about the ******* my sponsor said: "well, you picked him!" It felt like being punched but was a huge gift because I could no longer pretend I was a victim.
NYCDoglvr is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to NYCDoglvr For This Useful Post:
BlueSkies1 (08-07-2012), emeraldsea (08-10-2012), GettingBy (08-06-2012), shawty80 (08-07-2012)
Old 08-06-2012, 04:14 PM
  # 102 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
lizatola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,349
Originally Posted by NYCDoglvr View Post
Fascinating thread. What helped me see more clearly was this: one day I realized that even though I complained and expressed anger, the action of staying with an alcoholic said I agreed with him. By being with him I went along with his drinking, rage, lies and abuse.

After one of my typical rants about the ******* my sponsor said: "well, you picked him!" It felt like being punched but was a huge gift because I could no longer pretend I was a victim.
I feel the same way and it's what bugs me the most. I feel like I am actually saying those exact words: I agree with you, even though you're being an *ss.
lizatola is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to lizatola For This Useful Post:
BlueSkies1 (08-07-2012), fourmaggie (08-07-2012)
Old 08-06-2012, 04:46 PM
  # 103 (permalink)  
Member
 
choublak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,667
Expanding on my earlier post, what scares me about this man is how he's already talking about what you will or will not be "allowed" to do in the future. It's bad enough when someone does that in the present.
choublak is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to choublak For This Useful Post:
Fathom (08-06-2012), hadenoughnow (08-06-2012)
Old 08-07-2012, 10:10 AM
  # 104 (permalink)  
Member
 
wicked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
Blog Entries: 1
All I can say with surety in healthy marriages is that real love isn't painful, that people respect each other along with being turned on by their physical bodies, that fairness prevails, that transparency of heart is obvious, that motives are clear, that manipulation is non-existent, that equality is understood, and that physical intimacy is not embarrassing when we look our partner in the eyes, and that that intimacy is a shared expression in which both partners are comfortable and unafraid to be transparent.
MadeofGlass,

This is amazing! Thank you so much. This is a keeper.
wicked is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to wicked For This Useful Post:
BlueSkies1 (08-07-2012), fourmaggie (08-07-2012), lillamy (08-09-2012)
Old 08-07-2012, 12:06 PM
  # 105 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,295
Originally Posted by lizatola View Post
I feel the same way and it's what bugs me the most. I feel like I am actually saying those exact words: I agree with you, even though you're being an *ss.
There's the rub once we start to pull our head out of the sand...there's no going back to ignorance, we can't unlearn what we have learned, and so this thread will be for you, Liz.
You could run away from this thread and this forum, stick your head back in the sand, and go on status quo...but I see you are interested in learning about yourself!

I feel for you, I have been there.
I also realized that my own lack of a backbone and having a "wishbone" instead has been a big part of my problem.
We can hide behind niceness...quite successfully, but we don't feel better for doing so, and for good reason. Life is not for the faint of heart...a little twist on a Shelley quote I must add to the list of quotes!
BlueSkies1 is offline  
Old 08-07-2012, 01:25 PM
  # 106 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
lizatola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,349
Originally Posted by MadeOfGlass View Post
There's the rub once we start to pull our head out of the sand...there's no going back to ignorance, we can't unlearn what we have learned, and so this thread will be for you, Liz.
You could run away from this thread and this forum, stick your head back in the sand, and go on status quo...but I see you are interested in learning about yourself!

I feel for you, I have been there.
I also realized that my own lack of a backbone and having a "wishbone" instead has been a big part of my problem.
We can hide behind niceness...quite successfully, but we don't feel better for doing so, and for good reason. Life is not for the faint of heart...a little twist on a Shelley quote I must add to the list of quotes!
Dang. Someone filled in that hold in the ground where my head was buried and you're saying I can't put my head back in there? Life is sooooo not fair! That's OK, though, because I know deep down that it will all work out, whichever way that goes according to my Higher Power's plan.

I also think one of my big fears is of being a single parent. Last night my son was up getting weepy at midnight because he couldn't sleep. My AH was out of town for work and it wasn't that big of a deal, but sometimes I defer to AH when ds is frustrated or giving me trouble. I guess there's a part of me that likes having back up around and knowing that I'm "IT" when it comes to parenting. It scares the crap out of me!
lizatola is offline  
Old 08-09-2012, 09:20 AM
  # 107 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,295
I became a single parent for a few years and it was remarkably easy! My child was a very easy child to take care of though.
Think of this--you were the one who got up at midnight when he was crying, you didn't have help doing that, did you? And you handled it just fine.
You took your child on that tennis vacation for several weeks, and did it just fine, all by yourself.
Realizing that you are ALREADY functioning often as a single parent might help you realize that you are stronger than you think.
I think you lack confidence...I can surely understand that, been there, done that.

Since you are a Christian, you may believe that a broken home is a bad thing, and that it makes you a "bad girl" on some level, I know how deep this stuff goes...my mother is a minister.
Just making sure you remind yourself in your life decisions to take the "guilty" part of religion out of it and toss that away. Not sure the negative dogma ever did anyone any good...as with Christianity same with alanon...what's the saying...take what you want and leave the rest....
BlueSkies1 is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to BlueSkies1 For This Useful Post:
dandylion (08-09-2012), laurie6781 (08-09-2012), m1k3 (08-09-2012), sosickofcycle (08-12-2012)
Old 08-09-2012, 10:53 AM
  # 108 (permalink)  
I AM CANADIAN
 
fourmaggie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 2,578
Blog Entries: 45
Originally Posted by MadeOfGlass View Post
I became a single parent for a few years and it was remarkably easy! My child was a very easy child to take care of though.
Think of this--you were the one who got up at midnight when he was crying, you didn't have help doing that, did you? And you handled it just fine.
You took your child on that tennis vacation for several weeks, and did it just fine, all by yourself.
Realizing that you are ALREADY functioning often as a single parent might help you realize that you are stronger than you think.
I think you lack confidence...I can surely understand that, been there, done that.
fourmaggie is offline  
Old 08-09-2012, 10:59 AM
  # 109 (permalink)  
Member
 
LaTeeDa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
I also thought being a single parent was going to be really tough. Turns out, it was more like taking care of "less" children. I went from a 9yo, 13yo, and 43yo to just the 9yo and 13yo, lol.

L
LaTeeDa is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to LaTeeDa For This Useful Post:
fourmaggie (08-09-2012), laurie6781 (08-09-2012), sosickofcycle (08-12-2012), Tuffgirl (08-10-2012)
Old 08-09-2012, 12:40 PM
  # 110 (permalink)  
Member
 
dandylion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 15,559
*****YES, LaTeDa, YES***** I, too, was so unexpectantly surprised at the same thing!

It is like having less children. I just had no idea of how much "space" in my brain that my ex husband took up every day.

dandylion
dandylion is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to dandylion For This Useful Post:
fourmaggie (08-09-2012)
Old 08-09-2012, 01:23 PM
  # 111 (permalink)  
Member
 
dancingnow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 342
Originally Posted by lizatola View Post
Dang. Someone filled in that hold in the ground where my head was buried and you're saying I can't put my head back in there? Life is sooooo not fair! That's OK, though, because I know deep down that it will all work out, whichever way that goes according to my Higher Power's plan.

I also think one of my big fears is of being a single parent. Last night my son was up getting weepy at midnight because he couldn't sleep. My AH was out of town for work and it wasn't that big of a deal, but sometimes I defer to AH when ds is frustrated or giving me trouble. I guess there's a part of me that likes having back up around and knowing that I'm "IT" when it comes to parenting. It scares the crap out of me!

This sounds like what I had before my AH and I separated. When we were separated I was terrified that I just wasn't a good enough parent by myself until one day in a counseling session I told my counselor, I can't do this and he looked at me and said - you've been doing this for a year and sure enough I was, no help from AH. After I heard that I had an AHA moment and things started to feel so much better.

Now that RAH and I are back together I feel differently about how we parent. I am able to handle frustration more, I don't second guess myself and I can more peacefully work through difficulties without using my RAH as backup, unless it logistically makes sense.

During my recovery, I came to realize that he would step in to parent when it suited him and also as a distraction to the elephant in the room. He still does that sometimes but now I let him do what he wants to do as long as I am comfortable with how I feel about the situation and I specifically ask him for help as well as others besides him when I need too.

Alcoholism truly s*cks. In my case I think it took the worst of me and magnified it, got me off track of my development as a person, left me to doggy paddle my way through life.

I feel so much better now. I am not perfect, as a mom, a wife, a friend, an employee, a sibling, a daughter, or whatever but the actions I take now are truer to who I am then the ever were in the past 15 or more years and I am so grateful to have seen the light.

Liz, you are doing a great job, handling so much with your son. I am sure in some ways it is like you are a single parent and every mom needs support. It can be others besides your AH.

What is it that you truly want and need from your AH. Is it just him being there when you feel overwhelmed with your son or is it more than that? If you don't identify what you truly want you may keep feeling frustrated with your situation.

JMO (((HUGS)))
dancingnow is offline  
Old 08-09-2012, 03:15 PM
  # 112 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
lizatola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,349
Originally Posted by MadeOfGlass View Post
I became a single parent for a few years and it was remarkably easy! My child was a very easy child to take care of though.
Think of this--you were the one who got up at midnight when he was crying, you didn't have help doing that, did you? And you handled it just fine.
You took your child on that tennis vacation for several weeks, and did it just fine, all by yourself.
Realizing that you are ALREADY functioning often as a single parent might help you realize that you are stronger than you think.
I think you lack confidence...I can surely understand that, been there, done that.

Since you are a Christian, you may believe that a broken home is a bad thing, and that it makes you a "bad girl" on some level, I know how deep this stuff goes...my mother is a minister.
Just making sure you remind yourself in your life decisions to take the "guilty" part of religion out of it and toss that away. Not sure the negative dogma ever did anyone any good...as with Christianity same with alanon...what's the saying...take what you want and leave the rest....
I have been reading a lot of Christian books like "Boundaries", "No More Christian Nice Girls", and 2 books by Leslie Vernick and they all talk about how Christian women don't need to be doormats and shouldn't put up with unacceptable behavior. I guess I think too much and fall into the paralysis of analysis camp. At least I recognize my part and I'll know when it's time to make a move. Setting up a boundary which is: I will not live with active alcohol abuse...is the first step.
lizatola is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to lizatola For This Useful Post:
fourmaggie (08-09-2012), LifeRecovery (08-10-2012), sosickofcycle (08-12-2012)
Old 08-09-2012, 03:40 PM
  # 113 (permalink)  
Member
 
lillamy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,523
Wow -- so much good stuff in here! I love this place, and love you guys!

Lowering your financial standards isn't a big deal once you experience the freedom of getting to make your own decisions. I went from a big house in a nice subdivision to a tiny apartment in a marginal neighborhood, and I could not be happier. So we don't eat as well, ride as well, travel as well -- but we have our freedom (the kids and I). It's worth it.

Being a single parent when you're a single person isn't nearly as hard as being a single parent when you're married to an alcoholic. When you don't expect to have any help, somehow, it's easier when you don't get any help. And I can only tell you that my children today are happier, easier to handle, much lovelier to hang out with than when we lived with their alcoholic father.

The unknown can be frightening. But the grass really is greener on this side.
lillamy is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to lillamy For This Useful Post:
ConeyIslandHigh (08-09-2012), fourmaggie (08-09-2012), m1k3 (08-10-2012), pixilation (08-09-2012)
Old 08-09-2012, 05:55 PM
  # 114 (permalink)  
Member
 
pixilation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 756
I couldn't have said it any better than amy did. All my furniture may be secondhand, but it's comfortable and hasn't had beer spilled on it. It's peaceful, even living in an apartment building full of people. It has been worth it, to live a life without alcohol.
pixilation is offline  
Old 08-09-2012, 06:45 PM
  # 115 (permalink)  
Member
 
Eddiebuckle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 1,667
Originally Posted by dancingnow View Post
I feel so much better now. I am not perfect, as a mom, a wife, a friend, an employee, a sibling, a daughter, or whatever but the actions I take now are truer to who I am then the ever were in the past 15 or more years and I am so grateful to have seen the light.
(((HUGS)))
This is a really good description of what recovery looks like to me (gender specificity aside). The "aha" moments occur when I realize the extent to which I act in defiance of reality, or in defiance of my true self.

Thanks all for sharing, this is a beautiful thread.
Eddiebuckle is offline  
Old 08-10-2012, 07:27 AM
  # 116 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
lizatola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,349
Update: nothing surprising, though. We both met individually with the marriage therapist yesterday. He basically told me that MC doesn't usually work, even if there isn't addiction involved. Once he got my intake going, my history, and the story of what is currently going on he shook his head and said, "I can't promise you anything, you've got quite a mess on your hands." He seemed most appalled by the fact that AH doesn't attend our son's tennis tournaments. I explained how it actually works out for the best for the most part, but the guy seemed concerned.

Anyway, he didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. He made it clear that AH will have to get into some sort of recovery program and that I can put up boundaries but really AH has to decide if he'll do what is necessary to continue with the marriage. Turns out this guy is 30 years sober and active in AA so he knows what I'm dealing with. AH hasn't said anything about his meeting with this guy, but I didn't expect anything from him on that anyway. Honestly, I told the therapist about the porn and my words were, "I don't even care about that. It seems to be the least of my problems." He asked me if I am aware of the addiction risk with porn and if I realized this could wind up being a big deal if AH continues using it. I told him yes, I get it. I don't care what he does anymore, unless he chooses recovery. Then I might give a cr*p.
lizatola is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to lizatola For This Useful Post:
Florence (08-10-2012), tjp613 (08-10-2012)
Old 08-10-2012, 09:24 AM
  # 117 (permalink)  
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,049
Hey Liz,

That's frustrating I would think, but maybe a little empowering for you at the same time? I'm thinking back to earlier posts where you wrote that it was important for you to know that you did everything in your power...so to have a professional tell you that you that it's up to your husband to decide if he will do what is necessary for the marriage.

I have a friend (s) a couple that are currently in marriage counseling. I love them both, but Mr., while always liked to tilt the bottle has ramped it up the last 7 yrs. He has kinda 'checked out' as I see it. Of course he doesn't see what the big deal is. He sees 'Mrs' as beating him down (arrrg) "He can't win" stuff coming out of his mouth lately. I have known them as a couple for 17 years and I hate to see the marriage dissolve because they have 4 kids, but I know that is not a reason to stay together. I also hate to see the marriage dissolve because I would like to give 'Mr' a kick in the azz to make him see that he is purely defiant and using 'Mrs' as his excuse to check out. Oh wait-I have! Because Mr and I are also friends and i drank alcoholically for a ton of years I k.n.o.w all the excuses and reason. Guess what, he tells me respectfully that I don't understand. I have a permanent bump on my forehead from banging my head on the wall.
__
What I started out to say- When 'Mrs' explained what she thought needed to happen for the marriage to have a chance and 'Mr' explained what he thought needed to change to make the marriage work, the MC said to 'mr'- ohhh, so you don't want the marriage then. When my friend told me that, it was the most profound thing I have heard. Worded that way and tightly wrapped up in a neat package. That was it. How do you argue with that I thought?
gerryP is offline  
Old 08-10-2012, 11:41 AM
  # 118 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
lizatola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,349
Originally Posted by gerryP View Post
Hey Liz,

That's frustrating I would think, but maybe a little empowering for you at the same time? I'm thinking back to earlier posts where you wrote that it was important for you to know that you did everything in your power...so to have a professional tell you that you that it's up to your husband to decide if he will do what is necessary for the marriage.

I have a friend (s) a couple that are currently in marriage counseling. I love them both, but Mr., while always liked to tilt the bottle has ramped it up the last 7 yrs. He has kinda 'checked out' as I see it. Of course he doesn't see what the big deal is. He sees 'Mrs' as beating him down (arrrg) "He can't win" stuff coming out of his mouth lately. I have known them as a couple for 17 years and I hate to see the marriage dissolve because they have 4 kids, but I know that is not a reason to stay together. I also hate to see the marriage dissolve because I would like to give 'Mr' a kick in the azz to make him see that he is purely defiant and using 'Mrs' as his excuse to check out. Oh wait-I have! Because Mr and I are also friends and i drank alcoholically for a ton of years I k.n.o.w all the excuses and reason. Guess what, he tells me respectfully that I don't understand. I have a permanent bump on my forehead from banging my head on the wall.
__
What I started out to say- When 'Mrs' explained what she thought needed to happen for the marriage to have a chance and 'Mr' explained what he thought needed to change to make the marriage work, the MC said to 'mr'- ohhh, so you don't want the marriage then. When my friend told me that, it was the most profound thing I have heard. Worded that way and tightly wrapped up in a neat package. That was it. How do you argue with that I thought?
You can't argue with it and I can totally see this MC say that to my AH at this point. He'll say he wants the marriage but turn it around to say,"Well, what I want is a woman who will do her job, sleep with me, and take care of the kid and then shut her pie hole." Of course, he'll say it nicer than that. Then, he'll throw the Bible in there for good measure and make sure I know that he wants a 'submissive' wife which I translate into: I want a doormat.
lizatola is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to lizatola For This Useful Post:
tjp613 (08-10-2012)
Old 08-10-2012, 11:47 AM
  # 119 (permalink)  
Member
 
grizz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 152
I usually dont give direct advice, but in this case leave the bum. I had a friend a long time ago that got divorced. He told me "You know why divorce is so expensive? Because its worth it." He told me that years ago and I didnt get until recently. Its worth it emotionally!... duh.
grizz is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to grizz For This Useful Post:
anvilhead (08-10-2012)
Old 08-10-2012, 12:30 PM
  # 120 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: California
Posts: 693
Originally Posted by lizatola View Post
I also think one of my big fears is of being a single parent. Last night my son was up getting weepy at midnight because he couldn't sleep. My AH was out of town for work and it wasn't that big of a deal, but sometimes I defer to AH when ds is frustrated or giving me trouble. I guess there's a part of me that likes having back up around and knowing that I'm "IT" when it comes to parenting. It scares the crap out of me!
Liza, I also had those fears when I finally kicked my AH out. We have 4 kids. What I discovered is that it had ALWAYS been me and that he really wasn't bearing half the load anyway. Because most of the time he was at home, he was under the influence of alcohol. And that having him in the home ultimately caused a lot more grief and heartache than the 'help' was even worth.

It took living apart for a while to really see this, and once I did, single parenting was a lot easier than married parenting.
SoaringSpirits is offline  

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:29 PM.