The Fourth Stage Alcoholic.
You are in a stage of recovery. A various stage. Hmmm
You are not enamored of the alcoholic or feel compassion. I think that a lot of humans find this disturbing, not just this recovering female.
When I read your latest posts, I get the feeling you are furious with yourself for being "misled" by a fourth stage alcoholic.
You are not detached from this at all, unless you have a different meaning for detached.
Detached would not involve all this fury, and reducing a woman to an inanimate object.
Yes, you were fooled by a fourth stage alcoholic, but you got away unscathed, right?
What insight are you sharing? Because I am not getting it. Maybe one of those weird woman reasons.
What have you learned that you can share with those that are still suffering?
I have missed all the support you have given too.
Take the focus off of her. Turn it on yourself. Forgive yourself.
Beth
You are not enamored of the alcoholic or feel compassion. I think that a lot of humans find this disturbing, not just this recovering female.
When I read your latest posts, I get the feeling you are furious with yourself for being "misled" by a fourth stage alcoholic.
You are not detached from this at all, unless you have a different meaning for detached.
Detached would not involve all this fury, and reducing a woman to an inanimate object.
Yes, you were fooled by a fourth stage alcoholic, but you got away unscathed, right?
What insight are you sharing? Because I am not getting it. Maybe one of those weird woman reasons.
What have you learned that you can share with those that are still suffering?
I have missed all the support you have given too.
Take the focus off of her. Turn it on yourself. Forgive yourself.
Beth
Still I rise.
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Oh Canada!
Posts: 1,121
Yes, and if I may ask..... if you are so OVER it & able to move on with your life undamaged, why are you posting here at all?
We're all here, in various stages of recovery, to share insight, experience & support.... none of which you say you need or want.
All that comes across from your posts is anger (I get no sense of the detachment you say you feel) & I am failing to see how that is helpful to anyone in this forum? While I *almost* understand your referring to her as an 'it', her child is an innocent who deserves greater compassion.
We're all here, in various stages of recovery, to share insight, experience & support.... none of which you say you need or want.
All that comes across from your posts is anger (I get no sense of the detachment you say you feel) & I am failing to see how that is helpful to anyone in this forum? While I *almost* understand your referring to her as an 'it', her child is an innocent who deserves greater compassion.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 160
You are in a stage of recovery. A various stage. Hmmm
You are not enamored of the alcoholic or feel compassion. I think that a lot of humans find this disturbing, not just this recovering female.
When I read your latest posts, I get the feeling you are furious with yourself for being "misled" by a fourth stage alcoholic.
You are not detached from this at all, unless you have a different meaning for detached.
Detached would not involve all this fury, and reducing a woman to an inanimate object.
Yes, you were fooled by a fourth stage alcoholic, but you got away unscathed, right?
What insight are you sharing? Because I am not getting it. Maybe one of those weird woman reasons.
What have you learned that you can share with those that are still suffering?
I have missed all the support you have given too.
Take the focus off of her. Turn it on yourself. Forgive yourself.
Beth
You are not enamored of the alcoholic or feel compassion. I think that a lot of humans find this disturbing, not just this recovering female.
When I read your latest posts, I get the feeling you are furious with yourself for being "misled" by a fourth stage alcoholic.
You are not detached from this at all, unless you have a different meaning for detached.
Detached would not involve all this fury, and reducing a woman to an inanimate object.
Yes, you were fooled by a fourth stage alcoholic, but you got away unscathed, right?
What insight are you sharing? Because I am not getting it. Maybe one of those weird woman reasons.
What have you learned that you can share with those that are still suffering?
I have missed all the support you have given too.
Take the focus off of her. Turn it on yourself. Forgive yourself.
Beth
It's an individual choice what to use this board for. And, for that matter, what you get out of the experience of loving an alcoholic. Some just want to vent and complain about the alcoholic. Fine, if that's what you're here for, have at it.
Some of us wish to use the resources here for self-discovery and healing. To dig deep into our own psyche to find what drew us to that individual in the first place, and what changes we might want to make in our view of the world and other people that could create better outcomes in our lives.
To each his own.....
L
Some of us wish to use the resources here for self-discovery and healing. To dig deep into our own psyche to find what drew us to that individual in the first place, and what changes we might want to make in our view of the world and other people that could create better outcomes in our lives.
To each his own.....
L
Last edited by LaTeeDa; 07-24-2012 at 02:57 PM. Reason: typo
It's more than okay to be angry. I actually think it's necessary. It's where you go from there that really matters. If you just stay angry, you might as well stay with the alcoholic, because you're not getting anywhere. Anger is one of the stages of grief. In my experience, growth could not begin until I got to the acceptance stage.
L
L
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 160
It's more than okay to be angry. I actually think it's necessary. It's where you go from there that really matters. If you just stay angry, you might as well stay with the alcoholic, because you're not getting anywhere. Anger is one of the stages of grief. In my experience, growth could not begin until I got to the acceptance stage.
L
L
It's fantastic that you realized after only 4 weeks that your wife was an alcoholic & you got out. If I had met my AW in the state SHE is in now, I would probably run like hell! But I wasn't lucky, I met a wonderful lady who over the course of MANY years SLOWLY became consumed by alcoholism.
There were fights along the way, but what married couple doesn't fight? At the time it wasn't about HER drinking, it was about all the OTHER things that MADE HER drink. Then after after about 15 years the disease was in plain sight & I couldn't deny IT anymore. IT had taken control of HER. SHE doesn't want IT to control HER anymore than I want IT to. I hate this horrible disease, IT stole my wife. My wife is still there & maybe SHE'LL find recovery & I'll see HER again. Maybe SHE won't & I'll leave. I didn't have the good fortune of skipping all the stepping stones that it took HER to get where SHE is now.
SHE didn't choose IT to take over HER life, IT chose HER. Sure at any point SHE could have gotten of the ride, but if it was that easy, the statistics for successful recovery wouldn't be as frightening as they are. So the long & short of it is, I married a wonderful woman who SLOWLY, I repeat SLOWLY had a disease take over HER body & mind. I woke up one day to find myself married to a DISEASE that took my wife. I HATE the DISEASE, I love my wife. So I am envious that you didn't have to witness the SLOW & PAINFUL take over of your wife. But I won't consider it "basically get the abcess tooth removed" when I face the hard decision to say good bye to someone I love.
I empathize with your stress & nerves being frazzled, mine became slowly numb over the years. But as the DISEASE progressed, new ones were exposed & I got to experience them all over, again & again. Luckily Alanon has helped with telling my nerves to not react to the DISEASES actions. Sorry it hasn't worked for you, but it has helped ME deal with HER DISEASE.
Best of luck to you my friend. Keep it shiny side up!
There were fights along the way, but what married couple doesn't fight? At the time it wasn't about HER drinking, it was about all the OTHER things that MADE HER drink. Then after after about 15 years the disease was in plain sight & I couldn't deny IT anymore. IT had taken control of HER. SHE doesn't want IT to control HER anymore than I want IT to. I hate this horrible disease, IT stole my wife. My wife is still there & maybe SHE'LL find recovery & I'll see HER again. Maybe SHE won't & I'll leave. I didn't have the good fortune of skipping all the stepping stones that it took HER to get where SHE is now.
SHE didn't choose IT to take over HER life, IT chose HER. Sure at any point SHE could have gotten of the ride, but if it was that easy, the statistics for successful recovery wouldn't be as frightening as they are. So the long & short of it is, I married a wonderful woman who SLOWLY, I repeat SLOWLY had a disease take over HER body & mind. I woke up one day to find myself married to a DISEASE that took my wife. I HATE the DISEASE, I love my wife. So I am envious that you didn't have to witness the SLOW & PAINFUL take over of your wife. But I won't consider it "basically get the abcess tooth removed" when I face the hard decision to say good bye to someone I love.
I empathize with your stress & nerves being frazzled, mine became slowly numb over the years. But as the DISEASE progressed, new ones were exposed & I got to experience them all over, again & again. Luckily Alanon has helped with telling my nerves to not react to the DISEASES actions. Sorry it hasn't worked for you, but it has helped ME deal with HER DISEASE.
Best of luck to you my friend. Keep it shiny side up!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 588
It seems to me that people are saying "you (Alucard) are angry" and you are replying "I don't feel compassion for it". The conversation is like two trains on separate tracks, close but not connecting.
Yes, you were decisive and ended it. I'll give you that. But....your posts drip with venom, and that hurts you. The replies on SR are hoping you can deal with all the anger of being deceived (by her and by your own blinders - she was 4th stage before and after the wedding - why you didn't see it, there must have been red flags everywhere).
You say you are o.k. You had married full of hope and now your dreams from that day have been wiped out and your marriage is over. Granted it was quick, but if, as you say, you are not feeling a bundle of emotions over what isn't and never will be, then why aren't you?
Wishing you the best.
Yes, you were decisive and ended it. I'll give you that. But....your posts drip with venom, and that hurts you. The replies on SR are hoping you can deal with all the anger of being deceived (by her and by your own blinders - she was 4th stage before and after the wedding - why you didn't see it, there must have been red flags everywhere).
You say you are o.k. You had married full of hope and now your dreams from that day have been wiped out and your marriage is over. Granted it was quick, but if, as you say, you are not feeling a bundle of emotions over what isn't and never will be, then why aren't you?
Wishing you the best.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miles from Nowhere
Posts: 396
"Take the focus off of her. Turn it on yourself. Forgive yourself."
Yes..."Forgive yourself." In my experience, often that is the hardest thing to do.
In Al Anon I am learning to forgive myself. Instead of thinking, "I was such a fool!" or "Why did I do such a stupid thing?" , I'm learning to think instead, "I was doing the best I could." "I didn't have the resources then that I have now."
Yes..."Forgive yourself." In my experience, often that is the hardest thing to do.
In Al Anon I am learning to forgive myself. Instead of thinking, "I was such a fool!" or "Why did I do such a stupid thing?" , I'm learning to think instead, "I was doing the best I could." "I didn't have the resources then that I have now."
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 160
It seems to me that people are saying "you (Alucard) are angry" and you are replying "I don't feel compassion for it". The conversation is like two trains on separate tracks, close but not connecting.
Yes, you were decisive and ended it. I'll give you that. But....your posts drip with venom, and that hurts you. The replies on SR are hoping you can deal with all the anger of being deceived (by her and by your own blinders - she was 4th stage before and after the wedding - why you didn't see it, there must have been red flags everywhere).
You say you are o.k. You had married full of hope and now your dreams from that day have been wiped out and your marriage is over. Granted it was quick, but if, as you say, you are not feeling a bundle of emotions over what isn't and never will be, then why aren't you?
Wishing you the best.
Yes, you were decisive and ended it. I'll give you that. But....your posts drip with venom, and that hurts you. The replies on SR are hoping you can deal with all the anger of being deceived (by her and by your own blinders - she was 4th stage before and after the wedding - why you didn't see it, there must have been red flags everywhere).
You say you are o.k. You had married full of hope and now your dreams from that day have been wiped out and your marriage is over. Granted it was quick, but if, as you say, you are not feeling a bundle of emotions over what isn't and never will be, then why aren't you?
Wishing you the best.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 160
It's fantastic that you realized after only 4 weeks that your wife was an alcoholic & you got out. If I had met my AW in the state SHE is in now, I would probably run like hell! But I wasn't lucky, I met a wonderful lady who over the course of MANY years SLOWLY became consumed by alcoholism.
There were fights along the way, but what married couple doesn't fight? At the time it wasn't about HER drinking, it was about all the OTHER things that MADE HER drink. Then after after about 15 years the disease was in plain sight & I couldn't deny IT anymore. IT had taken control of HER. SHE doesn't want IT to control HER anymore than I want IT to. I hate this horrible disease, IT stole my wife. My wife is still there & maybe SHE'LL find recovery & I'll see HER again. Maybe SHE won't & I'll leave. I didn't have the good fortune of skipping all the stepping stones that it took HER to get where SHE is now.
SHE didn't choose IT to take over HER life, IT chose HER. Sure at any point SHE could have gotten of the ride, but if it was that easy, the statistics for successful recovery wouldn't be as frightening as they are. So the long & short of it is, I married a wonderful woman who SLOWLY, I repeat SLOWLY had a disease take over HER body & mind. I woke up one day to find myself married to a DISEASE that took my wife. I HATE the DISEASE, I love my wife. So I am envious that you didn't have to witness the SLOW & PAINFUL take over of your wife. But I won't consider it "basically get the abcess tooth removed" when I face the hard decision to say good bye to someone I love.
I empathize with your stress & nerves being frazzled, mine became slowly numb over the years. But as the DISEASE progressed, new ones were exposed & I got to experience them all over, again & again. Luckily Alanon has helped with telling my nerves to not react to the DISEASES actions. Sorry it hasn't worked for you, but it has helped ME deal with HER DISEASE.
Best of luck to you my friend. Keep it shiny side up!
There were fights along the way, but what married couple doesn't fight? At the time it wasn't about HER drinking, it was about all the OTHER things that MADE HER drink. Then after after about 15 years the disease was in plain sight & I couldn't deny IT anymore. IT had taken control of HER. SHE doesn't want IT to control HER anymore than I want IT to. I hate this horrible disease, IT stole my wife. My wife is still there & maybe SHE'LL find recovery & I'll see HER again. Maybe SHE won't & I'll leave. I didn't have the good fortune of skipping all the stepping stones that it took HER to get where SHE is now.
SHE didn't choose IT to take over HER life, IT chose HER. Sure at any point SHE could have gotten of the ride, but if it was that easy, the statistics for successful recovery wouldn't be as frightening as they are. So the long & short of it is, I married a wonderful woman who SLOWLY, I repeat SLOWLY had a disease take over HER body & mind. I woke up one day to find myself married to a DISEASE that took my wife. I HATE the DISEASE, I love my wife. So I am envious that you didn't have to witness the SLOW & PAINFUL take over of your wife. But I won't consider it "basically get the abcess tooth removed" when I face the hard decision to say good bye to someone I love.
I empathize with your stress & nerves being frazzled, mine became slowly numb over the years. But as the DISEASE progressed, new ones were exposed & I got to experience them all over, again & again. Luckily Alanon has helped with telling my nerves to not react to the DISEASES actions. Sorry it hasn't worked for you, but it has helped ME deal with HER DISEASE.
Best of luck to you my friend. Keep it shiny side up!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 160
"Take the focus off of her. Turn it on yourself. Forgive yourself."
Yes..."Forgive yourself." In my experience, often that is the hardest thing to do.
In Al Anon I am learning to forgive myself. Instead of thinking, "I was such a fool!" or "Why did I do such a stupid thing?" , I'm learning to think instead, "I was doing the best I could." "I didn't have the resources then that I have now."
Yes..."Forgive yourself." In my experience, often that is the hardest thing to do.
In Al Anon I am learning to forgive myself. Instead of thinking, "I was such a fool!" or "Why did I do such a stupid thing?" , I'm learning to think instead, "I was doing the best I could." "I didn't have the resources then that I have now."
Yes, I had this thought last night when I thought back over this thread. I had a lot of anger at myself for a long time for missing the red flags I should have seen waving everywhere. (ESPECIALLY as an ACoA!!!)
And then I was extremely embarrassed (maybe mortified) for a long time too.... there's a roller coaster of emotions that I've been through personally & I'm guessing I'm no where near done. (and I know I'm not alone here)
Alucard - I'm not sure how much time you spent reading these boards before you joined & started posting, but I spent close to 8 months lurking. I read, I cried, I avoided some thoughts only to circle back to them, I saw similarities & differences & I learned so, so, SO much about something I thought I knew a LOT about. I weep openly at times when I hear of the children being affected by this terrible disease. I read a lot of posts from active A's that helped me see an entire dimension that sometimes tapped into my compassion but more often gave me knowledge. I started taking a personal inventory in ways I hadn't thought to do before, from a new perspective. I started to see how different solutions work for different relationships based on circumstances & emotions.
For instance - when alcoholism became apparant in my marriage we had been together for about 15 years & had spent 13 of them blissfully, off-the-charts happy. He was able to seek therapy & will be 1 full yr sober next weekend. We are slowly, but steadily rebuilding our lives & while it is difficult at times I feel stronger than before in some ways. I believe that is significantly different than your experience of being married very briefly to an alcoholic that is much further progressed & with whom you have no long-term recent relationship. Your point of view & attitude toward investing more into your relationship is going to be significantly different than mine based on our experiences to date. And that's OK, you just have to remember that not EVERY member here is dealing with a Stage 4 addict & many have families, children & financial considerations that you don't have to deal with as well. We all share common threads, but the pattern in our fabrics is not always identical.
I wish you well in your various stages of recovery.
And then I was extremely embarrassed (maybe mortified) for a long time too.... there's a roller coaster of emotions that I've been through personally & I'm guessing I'm no where near done. (and I know I'm not alone here)
Alucard - I'm not sure how much time you spent reading these boards before you joined & started posting, but I spent close to 8 months lurking. I read, I cried, I avoided some thoughts only to circle back to them, I saw similarities & differences & I learned so, so, SO much about something I thought I knew a LOT about. I weep openly at times when I hear of the children being affected by this terrible disease. I read a lot of posts from active A's that helped me see an entire dimension that sometimes tapped into my compassion but more often gave me knowledge. I started taking a personal inventory in ways I hadn't thought to do before, from a new perspective. I started to see how different solutions work for different relationships based on circumstances & emotions.
For instance - when alcoholism became apparant in my marriage we had been together for about 15 years & had spent 13 of them blissfully, off-the-charts happy. He was able to seek therapy & will be 1 full yr sober next weekend. We are slowly, but steadily rebuilding our lives & while it is difficult at times I feel stronger than before in some ways. I believe that is significantly different than your experience of being married very briefly to an alcoholic that is much further progressed & with whom you have no long-term recent relationship. Your point of view & attitude toward investing more into your relationship is going to be significantly different than mine based on our experiences to date. And that's OK, you just have to remember that not EVERY member here is dealing with a Stage 4 addict & many have families, children & financial considerations that you don't have to deal with as well. We all share common threads, but the pattern in our fabrics is not always identical.
I wish you well in your various stages of recovery.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 160
That is how you do things. I am indifferent to it, but it did make me see my mistake, and I have no problems writing about it. Because I wont ever repeat that mistake.
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