lizatola

I have been away from AH for almost 3 weeks now and they have been awesome weeks. He sent me flowers and mostly had been nice to me. Yet, all of a sudden I feel awkward on the phone with him again, like there's something he's hiding or not telling me kind of feeling. And, of course, knowing him I already know there's things he's not told me or is telling me. That's all part of his MO, so why am I all of a sudden caught up in emotions that I haven't had for weeks? I can't even put my finger on it, it's just a state of unease and discomfort.

Last night we were on the phone and he was busy doing some woodworking and the noise was distracting me and I felt like I had to talk over it so I told him to talk to our son for a while instead. They get on the phone and AH stopped doing his sanding to talk to our son. I know it's stupid, but I felt it was being done on purpose just to get me off the phone with him.

I go back home on July 29th and he hasn't asked me when my plane comes in yet. I will not let him pick us up unless he has the ignition interlock device in yet so I need to call some friends for back up rides(he doesn't know this yet since he hasn't asked for flight info). It will be very interesting when I get home because his bachelor lifestyle will be over. I have no idea what he's been doing with his time nor do I really care but there will be a huge adjustment when we get back. He still hasn't mentioned the Costa Rica trip, either, and neither have I. I wonder what his response will be when I tell him I'm not planning on going with him? I am already feeling anxious about going back, wish I could stay away forever but I know I have to deal with life and my marriage. I just need the strength to set those boundaries, stand up for what I want, and have the guts to follow through no matter what he says or does or doesn't say or do.

Right now my biggest issue is that I want to continue homeschooling our son. His neuropsychologist thinks it's the best option for him at this time. I think it's truly one of the main reasons I keep hoping we can work out the marriage stuff, even if it's only temporary. Oh, and I'm a self proclaimed codependent so that doesn't help my case, either, LOL!

And, you know what's really frustrating? I got hit on the other day and this guy called me beautiful lady and then told my son that he(son) was the princess' guardian. My son went around all day calling me princess. Then I was at the beach yesterday and sitting on my towel when this really nicely built guy went running by. I walked down to the water 10 mins later and was standing there when he ran back in the direction from where he came and I saw him check me out and smile at me. UGH!!! Soooooo, if I'm good looking enough to catch men's gaze then why do I stick around with my overweight, bald, middle aged personality disordered alcoholic husband? Somebody please tell me why, because I'm ready to scream.

soberbrooke

why do I stick around with my overweight, bald, middle aged personality disordered alcoholic husband? Somebody please tell me why, because I'm ready to scream. LOL - that is mine also - except he is a daily user of marijuana.

I have stayed for the kids, that is the only reason. I tried to make it work, and it wont. I just left him 1 1/2 months ago and it feels great. I am living in my own home, it is peaceful, serene, and clam. I know where everything is, because I put it there and after I use it, I put it back! Nothing is broken, and it stays organized. I have tried to change him since we were 28 and now we are 42 and I was still trying to change him. It just wont work. He wants to stay a little child and I am ready to grow up.
I am in a different and better consciousness now and no one or nothing can make me go back to that miserable state of consciousness I was in when I was drinking. I have 7 months and I am working my program to the best of my abilities.

akrasia

"Soooooo, if I'm good looking enough to catch men's gaze then why do I stick around with my overweight, bald, middle aged personality disordered alcoholic husband?"

So if you were ugly it would make sense for you to stay with self-centered alcoholic?

The way you talk about your husband, it sounds as though you're done, and no wonder. I appreciate your concern that you want to continue home-schooling your son--and I'm deducing that your husband's income allows you to remain home and do that--and I appreciate that one of your son's drs recommended that specifically. However if that dr knew the whole picture I doubt he/she would say, "Yes, stay with an out-of-control alcoholic who drives drunk and makes home life intolerable. That's clearly the best environment for your son to be in all day long."

If leaving definitely means ceasing or decreasing home-schooling, what other resources are available in the schools where you live? I know some people in child special ed in the states and I can ask them for resources if you like.

lizatola

No, it wouldn't make sense. It's not about looks at this point. I used to be attracted to him when we were more emotionally healthy. We just don't even have that now so it makes things so much harder.

Actually, I sat down with a special ed counselor from the school district and the neuropsych. at the same time. The counselor told me that the schools in our area would not meet our needs, that the private schools wouldn't take him because they don't have the resources, and that the best option is a charter school (or private school)that caters to kids with his issues. Unfortunately, the two within driving distance of my area cost around 20K a year!!!! She didn't know of one school where he would really thrive. They want me to put him with a reading specialist at $75 a session, put him in social skills classes, put him on meds, and then put him in their cognitive brain therapy program. This was the second doctor I've taken him to for his learning issues and the second time I've been told this. He has major cognitive development problems which are worsened by the ADHD. Anyway, I am at a loss and I need to do more research on his diagnoses' too.

And, the doctor knows the whole story. She was concerned and suggested counseling for our son and she understood why I am choosing to stay at this point. Akrasia, if you know of some resources I'm open to whatever you can find. I live in AZ.

Carol Star

To thine own self be true.......

dancingnow

"Last night we were on the phone and he was busy doing some woodworking and the noise was distracting me and I felt like I had to talk over it so I told him to talk to our son for a while instead. They get on the phone and AH stopped doing his sanding to talk to our son. I know it's stupid, but I felt it was being done on purpose just to get me off the phone with him."

Talking over the sound of something is annoying. Don't take it personally, maybe next time ask for him to stop for a moment.

A counselor once helped me to understand that an A is a prisoner to their disease and they never really feel in control, especially if they are trying to stop drinking. It led me to realize that a lot of what my RAH does at times is his way of being in control and unfortunately, unless I speak up for my needs and establish my boundaries that control can affect me.

The serenity prayer helps me a lot, there's a lot you can't change but there is a lot you can. Awareness, Acceptance, Action.

Sorry to be so cliche, but these simple thoughts worked for me, once I came out of the fog.

Maybe you are wanting to leave your AH, maybe not. Just take it one day at a time. Others have pointed out to me, you don't have to decide the future today, just take the next step.

Enjoying your time away is a great step. Speaking up for what you need are good steps. Sometimes figuring out what your true needs are is a step.

It's hard, especially as moms, we need to balance our needs with our children and it gets so mucked up with the alcoholic babies in our lives.

JMO

Alucard

Feels great doesnt it?

transformyself

Look up passive aggressive behavior. My AH is so PA it's pathological, but I bought right into the boomarang relationship; he'd throw the boomarang, I'd get angry. He could then step back and smirk and say, "look how angry you are."

*******. Today I hate him BUT I'm keeping my distance and not taking the bait.

You did great. The only thing that keeps me sane is to walk away and turn my attention back to making my own life the very best it can be.

AND staying NC with that ******

BlueSkies1

I could be seeing a lot of myself in you, or I could be off the mark, and you can tell me so if that's the case.
I see the comfortable lifestyle.
I see the deal with the devil--put up with his distancing, checking out behaviors of the alcoholic, and he will continue to support you financially and let you live life basically as you want to, 3 week vacations included, another with him to Costa Rica--this all sounds so familiar.
Then one day you take a look at who you are--and don't like what you see. Too much dependency, not enough of a mark of who you are on the world, and wonder if you could blaze forward on your own.
My question to you is--is it really about him, or is it about you?

Then you have to wonder...who will marry me, support me, let me stay at home and raise my child and not work, a child that is not theirs?
Where's my confidence in finding such a person? Are they out there? Look at that guy on the beach...maybe him.
It doesn't feel good to be supported for some of us. It feels diminishing, demeaning. But how do you start over with a special needs child?
Well I've been down that road, and you don't want to cut another deal with a different devil. You want to stand on your own, and that is going to take probably re-entering the work force, having your child in less than the best school...and other major inconveniences...maybe a lot less vacations...life would get tough, you would have to scramble sometimes just to make it all work...life would get really really tough.
Or, you can stay where you are.
Is this about his alcoholism, or is it about being less than happy with yourself?
I see you criticizing his weight and baldness...his baldness he can't control, and his weight, well, he's imperfect compared to the guy on the beach but the guy on the beach is nothing but a momentary fantasy.

For me, as much as I could point out his absolutely crazy behaviors...and it was so easy to finger point at him...it is so very very easy with an alcoholic...what I really didn't like was what I saw in my own mirror.

akrasia

I was trying to say what Made of Glass is saying, and I didn't know how to say it so kindly.

There are lots of single/separated mothers with disabled children, and there are ways of managing it.

Sighing after any random guy who smiles at you or who gives a kind word to you and your son--it's like you're out there begging for scraps. You're clearly so smart and gifted, and you've got friends and family--you can make a better life for yourself.

akrasia

"The counselor told me that the schools in our area would not meet our needs..."

And I will look up some resources for you around AZ special ed programmes. But what happens when you call the schools directly, tell them your son's issues, and ask what they can do?

lizatola

You know, for so long, I was willing to put up with his personality disordered self long before the drinking came back on the scene. For the first 3 years of our marriage before our son came along I was making my own money, had a career as a stockbroker, and had lots of friends and acquaintances. Yet, I still stayed with him because I had that fantasy that he would grow up and be a real man, LOL. I could have broken off at any time and been able to provide for myself, but I always loved him. I saw a broken man and I thought I could fix him. I thought being a father would help him grow up and in some ways he did, in others he didn't at all. I was living in fantasy land.

I think it's more about my fears of abandonment that grew from my childhood issues more so than about my fear of making it in the world. I also think that my attitude today is really about the drinking and what's happened since he began drinking. Once he started lying about his drinking, justifying bad behaviors, blaming me for his drinking habits, etc that's when the wheels came off and everything came to a head. I told him back in March that the DUI was the last straw, the icing on the cake, and that I wasn't sure how I felt about him anymore. It just seems like it's been one big cluster and it really got worse from the drinking.

Not saying that anything was perfect beforehand but I was far more willing to work through things with him and trust him. I didn't ever question his explanations or anything, I just figured he lies to other people but not to me. Now, I realize that he lies to me, too, and that kills me. The trust is gone and now I look in the mirror and ask myself, 'how did I get here?' I know it's all codependent behaviors, fantasy thinking, and clinging to those good times when things seem totally normal that kept me believing that the future with him will be better. I used to think that making more money would make him happy, but all it did was stress him out more. I kept saying, "Duh, when will you learn? He'll always be unhappy. He told you so himself that life sucks and he can't wait to die. Did you really think he'd change?" YEP, yes I did. Now, I'm finally facing the reality that he won't change and now, what am I going to do about my life? What do I really want?

BlueSkies1

Yeah, I know. I was there too.
Naiviete, for starters. Getting married with blinders on, ignoring red flags, or diminishing their importance...I did these things. Why? I suppose I hedged my bets, weighed the good against the bad, and decided at that time that the good outweighed the bad.
I too was making it on my own just fine, and didn't need him financially, and had plenty of friends and family around me. Then things changed, for lots of reasons. One was him offering to be the knight in shining armor and take care of money needs. When we make that deal--we give up our power, and find later that re-entering the work force where we left off can't always be done.

Another thing that happens is self-imposed isolation. Sometimes I didn't want to share with friends and family just what was going on. I was ashamed FOR HIM. Other times I did share, and as they were not professionals, they added to the drama, or simply were negative and told me to leave him, without discussing my issues with myself. It was wrong to expect friends and family to have the expertise of a good counselor.
So you thinking he would grow up and become a real man...in what ways was he not grown up/a real man before the drinking?
Where do the fears of abandonment come from? When you have those kinds of fears, the thought of creating the abandonment yourself (leaving him) is absolutely terrifying...like you would do to yourself what you are so afraid of others doing to you.
Which makes me think...you knew you had him hook, line, and sinker. He wouldn't leave you EVER...in fact probably will never leave you, as long as you don't cross the liine.
Hmmm...that sounds familiar also.
Let me ask you this to ask yourself--Where do you know NOT to cross the line, where are the lines drawn, when it comes to his behaviors, equality in the relationship, and open honest communication on the tough issues?
The two of you have made an unspoken agreement, you know.

I understand the pain of realizing that he lies to you. Blinders off. Is it acceptable? If not, what are YOU going to do about it?
I also understand looking in the mirror and saying How in the heck did I get here?
We make deals, we hedge our bets...we knew more than we realized we knew...and then also some of it comes as a shocking jolt out of fantasy land and into the reality...the reality that yes, you are not important enough to deserve the truth.
Been there, done that.
And still to this day the most sentimental thing for me is the sound of an airplane taking off...that was the best of the relationship...and I ran and wouldn't go on the last two vacations.
When things seemed totally normal they weren't. The good days are gone. Your blinders are off. You can't go back in time. There is only going forward, and how do you do that now that your blinders are off?
There's the rub.

Marriage counseling is a thought but they don't like to treat active addicts.

We make a deal--you take care of me this way, I'll take care of you that way. What happens when WE want to change the deal? He's happy with the status quo.

LaTeeDa

We all have choices, even when we convince ourselves we don't. Sometimes all the choices suck and you are forced to choose the least sucky one. But, choosing to stay is a choice, too. Also, most choices don't have to be permanent. You can change your mind any time you want.

L

marie1960

"And, you know what's really frustrating? I got hit on the other day and this guy called me beautiful lady and then told my son that he(son) was the princess' guardian. My son went around all day calling me princess. Then I was at the beach yesterday and sitting on my towel when this really nicely built guy went running by. I walked down to the water 10 mins later and was standing there when he ran back in the direction from where he came and I saw him check me out and smile at me. UGH!!! Soooooo, if I'm good looking enough to catch men's gaze then why do I stick around with my overweight, bald, middle aged personality disordered alcoholic husband? Somebody please tell me why, because I'm ready to scream. "

I am going to be perfectly honest, when I first read this, it struck an unpleasant chord. I let it go, ate some lunch and I was still thinking about it. Something was haunting me, and as I reflected about the last ten years, I remembered....... I do not know if this helps but here goes.....

the harmless, flirtatious words of a complete stranger, turned out to be a life lesson I will never forget. Within a couple of months we were dating, about a year later we were engaged, and I never felt more complete in my life, at last we would live happily ever after......... Wrong....... he broke off the engagement 6 days before the wedding, and my life spiraled out of control..... that's how I ended up with XA, as I was having a pity party, and who better to have a pity party with than a seasoned veteran.

I had zero confidence, I was hurt, bitter, and angry. Just wanted to bury my head in the sand.

For a couple of years I would replay the movie in my head, always remembering our initial meeting, and his absolute wow factor. The eyes, the smile, his confidence....

Today, living in the present, I no longer would find his initial approach inviting at all. Out of all the pain, has come a personal growth, and I see myself all those years ago, in you today. You are simply searching for the "What do I do now?" JMHO, but I would be asking myself, "Even if my husband was not an active alkie, do I want to stay in this relationship?" Could the drinking factor is just the icing on the cake?

We all change, grow and evolve, and sometimes we just outgrow our current relationship. This is truly about you now. The validation you are seeking, resides within you, you get to peel the layers off, and find you again.

Being a mom and wife is consuming, even on vacation in florida, you are committed to your son's tennis activities. We all have to make the time for ourselves. Time to have that heart to heart with yourself. Wishing you peace.

BlueSkies1

Thought about this more...gosh this is me just a few years ago...now plop me down on that beach but make it today not then, lol

Alcoholics acting badly is not an excuse for us to act badly. Why do we act badly? Because we are hurt. Hurt how? Usually our emotional needs are not getting met, and throw in deception on their part and then there is resentment too, and for some, financial difficulties...but not for you, not for me.
I remember him practically INSISTING I went on vacation once, without him. This act alone was the beginning of my taking off the blinders. What was he going to be up to that he NEEDED me to go on vacation so badly? Something sneaky...of course there was.
He didn't clean the house at all while I was gone. The liquor cabinet was severely diminished. He didn't go to work, he called in sick, and told me he had been sick and that is why the house was a mess, which was very unlike him.
He never let the house get messy, nor ever called in sick another day of our marriage...only this one time he had the house to himself.
What he did do for sure was-- downloaded many porn movies onto every computer in the house, and there were 10 or so computers, and get stinking drunk.
Did I chastise him while away? Not on that vacation, but on others.
We can't act badly because they do...somebody has to reign themselves in...it has to be us because they are incapable while active in addiction.

I've been there too...emotional pain from needs not being met...but we can't plop ourselves on a beach and say, dammit, why doesn't the bald, fat, alcoholic that paid for this 3 week vacation look like the guy on the beach over there? If we do that for a long time we end up like those mean looking ladies at Macy's trying to get their emotional needs met shopping....

Would your husband think the trip was money well spent? Maybe he wouldn't...or maybe he's up to no good himself.
You're in emotional pain is why you lash out at him and you need to go directly to the source and explain that pain...good place to start would be with the lies, whatever they are about...say "this HURTS me!" "Do you care about my feelings?" Suggestions only....
It isn't fair that the sober person has to be well...sober in thinking...not fair at all, and that's just the way it is...the burden is unfairly on us.
I am NOT criticizing you. I have been right where you are, right down to the flowers...
Leap of faith...with him, or without him.

Tuffgirl

Liz, LTD's comments above really struck me today. Much of the anxiety I felt in those early days had a lot to do with feeling as if I didn't have choices. But really, it was that I was unable to make them and feel confident in it all.

I had married this man, for better or worse, in sickness and health, leaving didn't seem like the right choice. It was my daughters who tipped the scale on the choice for me. It was their exhaustion of it all, their desire to live a calm peaceful life again. Their need to have consistency, stability, and safety in their home.

How does your son feel? Is he behaving differently while you are away from the stress of your home and marriage? I was able to see my daughters relax into our own normal ebb and flow of life once removed from the stress and tension. I could see almost immediately that when I did make the choice to separate, that no matter how painful it was for me, it was the best thing for my girls. And that gave me the confidence I needed. to continue making the choices I have made since then.

Thumper

My counselor said almost the same thing LTD said. I was paralyzed and not doing anything because the choice I wanted did not exist. I didn't want any of the available choices so I did nothing - but that was a choice made by default and I got mad at myself for that

Also wanted to comment on Tuffgirl's thoughts. These thoughts (about the kids) also kept me paralyzed for quite some time. I think my kids are younger than tuffgirls so that makes a bit of a difference but as parents I believe we must move forward in what we think is right even if the kids don't understand. My kids did relax when away from the drama that was caused by *me rocking the boat* but I have to be honest - they did not respond to me or the situation well - at all. I know, as an informed adult, that living with an alcoholic parent is not healthy. I know as an informed adult that alcoholism is progressive and things get worse. I know as an informed adult that I was the only one that could take care of them and I was not going to be able to do that much longer if I stayed married. They did not see any of those things. They went a bit ballistic after that tumultuous and awful 6mos. I made mistakes but leaving their alcoholic father was not one of them. Things have since calmed down and are looking much better. They have a life now that simply would not have been possible had I stayed married. I don't think they really understand the big picture even now but I do and they are smart boys. They will figure it out as they get older.

I share this not to discourage you (or others reading) to leave at all for I do think I made the right choice but if we look at our young children and give them what they want in the moment - we may never leave. Young children, even those that are seriously abused, will often want to stay with the parent. It is just how it is. We have to do what we think is right - sort of like we give them vaccinations even though they scream and cry.

m1k3

One of the biggest lessons I got here was so simple.

Nothing changes if nothing changes.

Your friend,

lizatola

Unfortunately, I change my mind to whichever way the wind blows. I waffle a lot. Something's got to give soon.

You all have shared so much here and for that I'm very grateful.

I know what Marie was talking about and believe me, I'm not looking for a relationship any time soon. I have too much on my plate, too much growth to attain for myself, and I plan on getting VERY emotionally healthy. Right now, I guess it was just a nice affirmation to know that I am attractive to some men even when my AH doesn't really take notice(well, he hadn't anyway for quite some time). A little validation for an ego boost but nothing I would ever act upon even if I wasn't with AH at this point.

To answer MadeofGlass' question: My AH does think the money was well spent. We have traveled to FL for the past few summers for tennis so this was nothing new, it was just a longer trip due to the tournament my son got into. He insisted that we go to the Dallas tournament, too, which is next week and I specifically asked him if he was OK with it and if he had any reservations about it.

Yes, big leap of faith indeed.....