The Love Illusion
peaceful seabird
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
The Love Illusion
I copied the first post from a Sticky at the top of this forum page. It speaks to me about Love as I continue my recovery journey:
"This is one of the most important passages I have read on SR in a very long time. It resonated with me hugely and I hope you don't mind that I started a new thread in its honour. Thank you goldenleaves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenleaves
This is an extract from an article taken from another forum I'm on (where it was reprinted from another site). It's not referring to alcoholics (so bits may sound a bit off track), but rather to a certain type of abuser (the other forum is a forum for abuse victims). I found it useful in helping think about my own feelings towards my stbx and WHY it was that I 'loved' him even though he treated me so badly. At first when I read it I thought it was being a bit harsh on ME, but then......
The following applies not only to romantic relationships; it applies across the board of all relationships including parent/child.
You can not truly love someone until they have revealed their characters to you. Why is this so? Because who we are is revealed by what we choose to do. Our characters are the sum total of the choices we've made.
Until you know someone's character you can not say in truth that you know or love who they are. This explains why so many marriages fall apart. People fall in love with their imagined version of the other person and don't become acquainted with that other person's character until enough time has passed for the consistency of their characters to be revealed. This is why short dating periods are often disastrous in the long-term.
We each have a will. How we exercise our will = the choices we make. The choices we make = our behaviors. The consistent behaviors a person exhibits is the truth of who they are. Behaviors are the revelation of character. Behaviors reveal what has been happening in the unseen realm of someone's thinking. When a person, like Cho of the Virginia Tech massacre, suddenly went on a murderous rampage, he was not acting out of character. He revealed what his character truly was. We have a sudden, horrific and stark revelation of what his thinking and small choices have added up to. What Cho did is who he is. Cho forced us all to see what an evil character had been developing quietly step by step and choice by choice while no one was really looking. We often hear people protest after being caught in some bad behavior that "it isn't like me to do this". No, it is like you. You chose to do what you did. You revealed who you are, not who you aren't, when you cheated on your husband or when you cooked the books at work.
If, after having a clear view of someone's personal character traits, you have respect, admiration and trust in that person then you can correctly state that you love this person.
Then there is the situation where you have gotten to know the personal characteristics of an individual, and you find that you can not say you love those characteristics. Yet you insist that you still love the person. Never mind that this person lies to you, cheats on you, slanders you to others, even physically abuses you...you tenaciously insist you hate their character traits but you love the person. It is this so-called "love" which justifies why you are still in this bad relationship. Whatever the reason for it (there can be many), this is describing someone who has created a fantasy around the objectionable character. They are not in love with the person...they are in love with the idea of who they've decided this person is in spite of the evidence to the contrary. This is not reality-based thinking. To insist a person is "good" despite what bad things they actually do is an exercise in your imagination only.
Perhaps you insist that you love what this person could be if they only tried. This, too, is a refusal to live in reality. Can we please dispense with this sloppy thinking? Can we stop trying to fool ourselves in order to justify staying in a destructive relationship? Can we call things by their right names? Go ahead and insist that you love the rotten character, but quit doing it to make yourself believe you are a better person for doing so. Stop white-washing their character in order to convince yourself you need to stay connected to them. If you are afraid of leaving the comfort of the known for the discomfort of the unknown world of life without this bad character, then admit that truth to yourself. But stop pretending you love something that is hateful. Remember that a key component of mental health is the mind which insists on living in reality i.e. the truth. You are not doing your mental health any favors by engaging in these mental games which allow you to stay in a bad place. If you don't love what a person does then you can't accurately state that you love the person himself.
It is okay to love a bad person, but only from a distance. Don't insist your love for a destructive person is justification enough for staying close to them. You risk all that is good and beautiful in life in order to love the unlovable. Maybe you think that means you are a better person because you can love and unlovable, but when your so-called love means the destruction of your own well-being, and the well-being of the innocents around you, then I insist you are not as good as you think you are.
Food for thought. "
Here is the link if you wish to read the original comments:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-illusion.html
"This is one of the most important passages I have read on SR in a very long time. It resonated with me hugely and I hope you don't mind that I started a new thread in its honour. Thank you goldenleaves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenleaves
This is an extract from an article taken from another forum I'm on (where it was reprinted from another site). It's not referring to alcoholics (so bits may sound a bit off track), but rather to a certain type of abuser (the other forum is a forum for abuse victims). I found it useful in helping think about my own feelings towards my stbx and WHY it was that I 'loved' him even though he treated me so badly. At first when I read it I thought it was being a bit harsh on ME, but then......
The following applies not only to romantic relationships; it applies across the board of all relationships including parent/child.
You can not truly love someone until they have revealed their characters to you. Why is this so? Because who we are is revealed by what we choose to do. Our characters are the sum total of the choices we've made.
Until you know someone's character you can not say in truth that you know or love who they are. This explains why so many marriages fall apart. People fall in love with their imagined version of the other person and don't become acquainted with that other person's character until enough time has passed for the consistency of their characters to be revealed. This is why short dating periods are often disastrous in the long-term.
We each have a will. How we exercise our will = the choices we make. The choices we make = our behaviors. The consistent behaviors a person exhibits is the truth of who they are. Behaviors are the revelation of character. Behaviors reveal what has been happening in the unseen realm of someone's thinking. When a person, like Cho of the Virginia Tech massacre, suddenly went on a murderous rampage, he was not acting out of character. He revealed what his character truly was. We have a sudden, horrific and stark revelation of what his thinking and small choices have added up to. What Cho did is who he is. Cho forced us all to see what an evil character had been developing quietly step by step and choice by choice while no one was really looking. We often hear people protest after being caught in some bad behavior that "it isn't like me to do this". No, it is like you. You chose to do what you did. You revealed who you are, not who you aren't, when you cheated on your husband or when you cooked the books at work.
If, after having a clear view of someone's personal character traits, you have respect, admiration and trust in that person then you can correctly state that you love this person.
Then there is the situation where you have gotten to know the personal characteristics of an individual, and you find that you can not say you love those characteristics. Yet you insist that you still love the person. Never mind that this person lies to you, cheats on you, slanders you to others, even physically abuses you...you tenaciously insist you hate their character traits but you love the person. It is this so-called "love" which justifies why you are still in this bad relationship. Whatever the reason for it (there can be many), this is describing someone who has created a fantasy around the objectionable character. They are not in love with the person...they are in love with the idea of who they've decided this person is in spite of the evidence to the contrary. This is not reality-based thinking. To insist a person is "good" despite what bad things they actually do is an exercise in your imagination only.
Perhaps you insist that you love what this person could be if they only tried. This, too, is a refusal to live in reality. Can we please dispense with this sloppy thinking? Can we stop trying to fool ourselves in order to justify staying in a destructive relationship? Can we call things by their right names? Go ahead and insist that you love the rotten character, but quit doing it to make yourself believe you are a better person for doing so. Stop white-washing their character in order to convince yourself you need to stay connected to them. If you are afraid of leaving the comfort of the known for the discomfort of the unknown world of life without this bad character, then admit that truth to yourself. But stop pretending you love something that is hateful. Remember that a key component of mental health is the mind which insists on living in reality i.e. the truth. You are not doing your mental health any favors by engaging in these mental games which allow you to stay in a bad place. If you don't love what a person does then you can't accurately state that you love the person himself.
It is okay to love a bad person, but only from a distance. Don't insist your love for a destructive person is justification enough for staying close to them. You risk all that is good and beautiful in life in order to love the unlovable. Maybe you think that means you are a better person because you can love and unlovable, but when your so-called love means the destruction of your own well-being, and the well-being of the innocents around you, then I insist you are not as good as you think you are.
Food for thought. "
Here is the link if you wish to read the original comments:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-illusion.html
And Presents For Pretty Girls
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 319
Originally Posted by Pelican 
Go ahead and insist that you love the rotten character, but quit doing it to make yourself believe you are a better person for doing so. Stop white-washing their character in order to convince yourself you need to stay connected to them. If you are afraid of leaving the comfort of the known for the discomfort of the unknown world of life without this bad character, then admit that truth to yourself. But stop pretending you love something that is hateful.
I was watching Hoarders once and saw this woman, who was dating the guy with the hoarding issues, walk into his house and then proceed to tell him she couldn't handle it and walked out. I remember thinking she should have stayed. What kind of relationship was that? I believed that it said more about her than about him. And, when I think of my reaction the same is true. I would stay to fulfill my need to be fixer, to prove my value and that I was understanding of their situation.
Damn.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 198
Thank you for posting this today, i really needed it. Ive read it before but for some reason it really sunk in for me. I can (kind of) wrap my brain around this concept now.
My AH has been pretty damn cold and apathetic for 5 months (just to me, no one else) yet I insist how much in love with him I am. He hasn't been lovable for quite some time.
I need to read this everyday.
My AH has been pretty damn cold and apathetic for 5 months (just to me, no one else) yet I insist how much in love with him I am. He hasn't been lovable for quite some time.
I need to read this everyday.
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 1,637
Pelican... this is so perfect and timely.
When I first began the divorce process, I kept telling people how much I still loved my AH... yet I also knew that we couldn't be together because of his disease. Last week I was talking to some friends and told them that I now felt zero for my XAH. I care about him as the father of my children... yet, when I had seen him earlier that day... I didn't even recognize him anymore. His face looked different... his legs thinner... I looked at him and realized I didn't know him at all anymore.
And then it hit me... I don't think I ever really knew him to begin with. I always saw him through my "love" filter... I loved him for what I felt he could be... "If only." And now... the filter is gone and I see what IS. And what I see... I don't like, let alone love.
When I first began the divorce process, I kept telling people how much I still loved my AH... yet I also knew that we couldn't be together because of his disease. Last week I was talking to some friends and told them that I now felt zero for my XAH. I care about him as the father of my children... yet, when I had seen him earlier that day... I didn't even recognize him anymore. His face looked different... his legs thinner... I looked at him and realized I didn't know him at all anymore.
And then it hit me... I don't think I ever really knew him to begin with. I always saw him through my "love" filter... I loved him for what I felt he could be... "If only." And now... the filter is gone and I see what IS. And what I see... I don't like, let alone love.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 94
Pelican--thank you thank you thank you for posting this. I remember when I first met my boyfriend, he began to systematically unload another bit of honesty about his past and his issues. Someone here described them as 'truth bombs': a range of confessions, some about childhood abuse he experienced, or antisocial behavior he did when young or not so young, or other horrific experiences that inform his life. All things that would give most people pause about getting involved with someone like that.
And then he would step back and wait, as if to test me, as if to ask, can you handle this? are you going to love me through this? Are you strong enough? This was often accompanied by the assertion that he had never told anyone else, but was telling me because of his deep love for me. (I have no reason to think this part was a lie, but it was certainly manipulative).
And though the confessions or the stories often made me sick, or disturbed or frightened--I felt a twinge of pride as I quickly composed myself to 'handle it.' It was a challenge and I had pride that I rose to the challenge. That I would accept him and love him anyway. That made me feel big.
And now that I read this, I see that I did get an ego stroke from accepting the unacceptable! I felt better about myself when i decided that I capable of handling what others were telling me to walk away from. My friends said, hes a good guy, but hes too much. Or some said, hes a mess, walk away, RUN away. And I dismissed them, because I alone understood.
Inside, I was scared of what being with him would bring, but also thrilled at the challenge and inwardly boastful at my strength for dealing with it. I have been through hell, I said to myself, and he has been through hell, and therefore we understand each other. It is a mark of our specialness that we have these battlescars.
In my mind, I even would disparage my friends' sweet, nice husbands in my mind as boring and maybe even a hint of a thought that my friends were, what... weak? Because they chose a guy who didnt bring misery or preferred to be single? Because they saw the chaos my boyfriend would bring me and advised me to run away?
And yet they are happy and I cry for hours everday.
These realizations about myself make me cringe to write.
And then he would step back and wait, as if to test me, as if to ask, can you handle this? are you going to love me through this? Are you strong enough? This was often accompanied by the assertion that he had never told anyone else, but was telling me because of his deep love for me. (I have no reason to think this part was a lie, but it was certainly manipulative).
And though the confessions or the stories often made me sick, or disturbed or frightened--I felt a twinge of pride as I quickly composed myself to 'handle it.' It was a challenge and I had pride that I rose to the challenge. That I would accept him and love him anyway. That made me feel big.
And now that I read this, I see that I did get an ego stroke from accepting the unacceptable! I felt better about myself when i decided that I capable of handling what others were telling me to walk away from. My friends said, hes a good guy, but hes too much. Or some said, hes a mess, walk away, RUN away. And I dismissed them, because I alone understood.
Inside, I was scared of what being with him would bring, but also thrilled at the challenge and inwardly boastful at my strength for dealing with it. I have been through hell, I said to myself, and he has been through hell, and therefore we understand each other. It is a mark of our specialness that we have these battlescars.
In my mind, I even would disparage my friends' sweet, nice husbands in my mind as boring and maybe even a hint of a thought that my friends were, what... weak? Because they chose a guy who didnt bring misery or preferred to be single? Because they saw the chaos my boyfriend would bring me and advised me to run away?
And yet they are happy and I cry for hours everday.
These realizations about myself make me cringe to write.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 237
Thank you for this post - I'm just going through the realisation that my xABF is not who I want him to be. He has behaved badly recently and it's made me face up to some unpleasant truths. Also I can't blame it all on alcohol. He is just being a selfish ungrateful sh1t.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 87
Anvil. - I knew exactly what this was from the point where you mentioned the carpets. Just happened to read an interview with her in a magazine on my break the other day! Extreme, yes...but a good point.
Emerald - I can relate! I recently realized being with my ABF is like a game of wack a mole. Knock down one problem, another pops up! And while none if the things he's told me about him were disturbing, he has A LOT of issues and I realized I took pride in tolerating them.
Emerald - I can relate! I recently realized being with my ABF is like a game of wack a mole. Knock down one problem, another pops up! And while none if the things he's told me about him were disturbing, he has A LOT of issues and I realized I took pride in tolerating them.
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