How to help my fiance
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5
How to help my fiance
I've never posted anything like this but I feel like I have no one else to ask. My fiance is an alcoholic that has recently been to treatment. We have a young child together. He is very hard to get along with but blames it on me all the time. Everything he does that I consider to be "wrong" ends up being my fault. He came home from rehab a few months back and has since started drinking again. As a result, he has been fired from his job. He has also been verbally, physically, and emotionally abusive towards me in front of our child. I wish I could turn to his family for help but they have not responded to me reaching out to them. I hate to say this, but it seems like he pitted his family against me when he got home from rehab so we would not communicate with each other and he could get away with drink...if he paints me out to be the crazy one then they won't believe me when I tell them about his drinking episodes. I'm at a loss of what to do. I do not let him alone with our child often and rarely let him drive with our child. On the few instances I thought I could trust him, he has ended up drinking and driving with our child. I won't allow him to take our child anymore in a vehicle as a result. I want him to go back to treatment but does anyone think this would do any good? I'm worried about leaving him because I do not want to put our child at risk with him having some type of visitation alone. I can't trust him. I do not want him taking our child around the type of people he runs around with while he is drinking either. There is more to my delima but not enough time to write it all down. I want him to sober up so we can be together but he says it's me not his drinking. He doesn't know how hard it is to be with an alcoholic. How can I get him to go back to treatment? What should I do to try to help him get sober? I'm scared if I just kick him out he will just end up in the gutter and get worse. I'm concerned for my child. She needs a dad.
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Welcome to the SR family!
I'm glad you found us, but sorry for the reason you came looking. You have found a wonderful resource of information and support for yourself.
I learned something valuable when I first arrived here. I learned about the 3 C's of alcoholism:
I did not Cause it
I cannot Control it
I will not Cure it
It took me a long while to wrap my head around that concept. I kept thinking I could change my AH (alcoholic husband) into a loving, supportive, family man if I could just say the right things, do the right things, and get the kids to do/say the right things. Surely he would see that we were more important than his next drink!
I was wrong. I didn't have the right words or actions to change another adults behavior into what I wanted. I certainly didn't want him telling me what I needed to do either.
In the process, I made myself a hot mess. I became so focused on him and his actions/inactions that I lost sight of myself and my children's needs. I lost myself in his addiction.
That's why we say alcoholism affects the entire family.
I can tell you my personal experience with being separated from an active alcoholic when it comes to visitation.
I found it best not to push the alcoholic into the role of responsible parent (based on the years we were together and he was unable to be a responsible parent then).
I found it best not to push or remind the other parent about visitation.
I found that given the choice between spending time with a small child and spending time with drinking buddies - my alcoholic is going to choose the activity that involves drinking. I let him!
The fear of your child being forced into visitation is not helping you today. Today it is important to do what is best for you and your child.
Getting yourself help from your local domestic violence shelter is a step that you might consider. They will talk to you about options that are available to you in your own community.
Getting information helped me make smart decisions for myself and my children.
You did not cause this.
You and your child did not cause this.
You are not to blame.
Your life is important. Your life matters and you are worthy of love and respect.
I'm glad you found us, but sorry for the reason you came looking. You have found a wonderful resource of information and support for yourself.
I learned something valuable when I first arrived here. I learned about the 3 C's of alcoholism:
I did not Cause it
I cannot Control it
I will not Cure it
It took me a long while to wrap my head around that concept. I kept thinking I could change my AH (alcoholic husband) into a loving, supportive, family man if I could just say the right things, do the right things, and get the kids to do/say the right things. Surely he would see that we were more important than his next drink!
I was wrong. I didn't have the right words or actions to change another adults behavior into what I wanted. I certainly didn't want him telling me what I needed to do either.
In the process, I made myself a hot mess. I became so focused on him and his actions/inactions that I lost sight of myself and my children's needs. I lost myself in his addiction.
That's why we say alcoholism affects the entire family.
I can tell you my personal experience with being separated from an active alcoholic when it comes to visitation.
I found it best not to push the alcoholic into the role of responsible parent (based on the years we were together and he was unable to be a responsible parent then).
I found it best not to push or remind the other parent about visitation.
I found that given the choice between spending time with a small child and spending time with drinking buddies - my alcoholic is going to choose the activity that involves drinking. I let him!
The fear of your child being forced into visitation is not helping you today. Today it is important to do what is best for you and your child.
Getting yourself help from your local domestic violence shelter is a step that you might consider. They will talk to you about options that are available to you in your own community.
Getting information helped me make smart decisions for myself and my children.
You did not cause this.
You and your child did not cause this.
You are not to blame.
Your life is important. Your life matters and you are worthy of love and respect.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 225
(((confus)))
You wrote ¨I want him to sober up so we can be together but he says it's me not his drinking. He doesn't know how hard it is to be with an alcoholic. How can I get him to go back to treatment? What should I do to try to help him get sober? I'm scared if I just kick him out he will just end up in the gutter and get worse. I'm concerned for my child. She needs a dad.¨
I don't mean to be harsh, but you can ¨want¨ 'til the cows come home and that won't make a bit of difference. Do not, I repeat, DO NOT believe him when he says it's because of you. I will repeat what Pelican wrote - You did not CAUSE it, you cannot CONTROL it, you cannot CURE it. It's NOT your fault! How can you get him back to treatment? You can't. He has to WANT it for himself. Even if you were able to get him into treatment if he is just doing it to placate you he might as well not even bother. If you kick him out, yes, he may end up in a gutter. But that won't be because you kicked him out. It will be because of the choice he made to continue drinking. A friend recently mentioned that my A has been drinking much more since we separated. I believe that alcoholism is progressive and who's to say he wouldn't be drinking much more now even if we were still together? Yes, it would be good for your daughter to have a Dad. A Dad that cares about her and her mother. I don't have children, but in my opinion children are better off with one parent who cares for and about them than with with two parents when one of those parents is an alcoholic. What REALLY concerns me about your post is that he has been physically abusive. Abuse, like alcoholism is progressive. Do you have family or friends that you can reach out to? If not, please contact your local DV shelter. There is help out there available to you. Please, please do not ever leave your child alone with him. I am sending you hugs and lots of support. Please keep coming back here, reading and posting. There is so much to be learned. You and your daughter deserve a better life than the one you are living now.
You wrote ¨I want him to sober up so we can be together but he says it's me not his drinking. He doesn't know how hard it is to be with an alcoholic. How can I get him to go back to treatment? What should I do to try to help him get sober? I'm scared if I just kick him out he will just end up in the gutter and get worse. I'm concerned for my child. She needs a dad.¨
I don't mean to be harsh, but you can ¨want¨ 'til the cows come home and that won't make a bit of difference. Do not, I repeat, DO NOT believe him when he says it's because of you. I will repeat what Pelican wrote - You did not CAUSE it, you cannot CONTROL it, you cannot CURE it. It's NOT your fault! How can you get him back to treatment? You can't. He has to WANT it for himself. Even if you were able to get him into treatment if he is just doing it to placate you he might as well not even bother. If you kick him out, yes, he may end up in a gutter. But that won't be because you kicked him out. It will be because of the choice he made to continue drinking. A friend recently mentioned that my A has been drinking much more since we separated. I believe that alcoholism is progressive and who's to say he wouldn't be drinking much more now even if we were still together? Yes, it would be good for your daughter to have a Dad. A Dad that cares about her and her mother. I don't have children, but in my opinion children are better off with one parent who cares for and about them than with with two parents when one of those parents is an alcoholic. What REALLY concerns me about your post is that he has been physically abusive. Abuse, like alcoholism is progressive. Do you have family or friends that you can reach out to? If not, please contact your local DV shelter. There is help out there available to you. Please, please do not ever leave your child alone with him. I am sending you hugs and lots of support. Please keep coming back here, reading and posting. There is so much to be learned. You and your daughter deserve a better life than the one you are living now.
Sobriety date 12/19/2011
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: TX
Posts: 409
I wish I would have left my A father of my children when my boys were young. It would have saved me a whole lot of things.
I recently got sober myself, and now have 6 months, but I had to hit bottom in order to do that. I wanted it so bad this time, for myself.
I recently left him, and the boys are now 13 and 12, and it has been hard. They don't know why I left, and they blame it on AA, but at least they aren't blaming themselves.
I have a lot of pieces to pick up, but leaving him is not one of them. I am only focused on myself and my boys, and that is more important than anything right now.
I hate that he still has them sometimes, but he claims to have stopped smoking his pot. I don't trust him, so I am not sure if that is the truth.
I just wish I would have been strong enough to leave him earlier, so that I wouldn't have to put my boys through all of this now.
I recently got sober myself, and now have 6 months, but I had to hit bottom in order to do that. I wanted it so bad this time, for myself.
I recently left him, and the boys are now 13 and 12, and it has been hard. They don't know why I left, and they blame it on AA, but at least they aren't blaming themselves.
I have a lot of pieces to pick up, but leaving him is not one of them. I am only focused on myself and my boys, and that is more important than anything right now.
I hate that he still has them sometimes, but he claims to have stopped smoking his pot. I don't trust him, so I am not sure if that is the truth.
I just wish I would have been strong enough to leave him earlier, so that I wouldn't have to put my boys through all of this now.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
I have no ESH related to having a child with such a selfish, reckless person, thank God. But I do have experience and understanding regarding what he is doing with his family. Alcoholics and addicts use and manipulate EVERYONE in their lives to enable the drinking and drugging. It is like a war and the tactic they use is Divide and Conquer. It is very unhealthy and destructive for all those who are manipulated this way. Just look now at the relationship his family has with your child. If what he causes them to believe about you estranges you from them, then it also estranges your child from half her family, which we all need in our lives.
He will paint you as a bad person and place blame on you to others. They will look for evidence that what he says is true and they will find it because that is what they WANT to see. Because this disease is cunning.
If you think these people are healthy for your child to be around, it were me I would find the one most rational, healthy, caring member of that family and have a frank discussion with them. Gather your strength beforehand and remain unemotional as possible when you speak to them, and tell them what you want for the child as relates to her relationship with his side of the family. Explain Divide and Conquer as well as you can. Do not discuss your relationship with him. See if anyone sober in that family will allow him to visit with your child in their home.
I hope something here is helpful. Please learn as much as you can about the disease of alcoholism and addictive thinking. Be prepared for his family o be very defensive and protective. Alcoholism is a family disease and sick ways people think and behave result from it.
He will paint you as a bad person and place blame on you to others. They will look for evidence that what he says is true and they will find it because that is what they WANT to see. Because this disease is cunning.
If you think these people are healthy for your child to be around, it were me I would find the one most rational, healthy, caring member of that family and have a frank discussion with them. Gather your strength beforehand and remain unemotional as possible when you speak to them, and tell them what you want for the child as relates to her relationship with his side of the family. Explain Divide and Conquer as well as you can. Do not discuss your relationship with him. See if anyone sober in that family will allow him to visit with your child in their home.
I hope something here is helpful. Please learn as much as you can about the disease of alcoholism and addictive thinking. Be prepared for his family o be very defensive and protective. Alcoholism is a family disease and sick ways people think and behave result from it.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5
Thank you for all of your helpful input. I really wonder sometimes if he knows he is being manipulative. Is this a conscious choice they make. Because if you were to ask him the answer would be no, of course. But is it something they don't really connect in their minds...that the choices they make revolve around his drinking? We had a discussion last night and I told him I thought we needed to separate and both work on ourselves separately. I want to see that he will work on his drinking and I also want to see that he can support himself for awhile. My family helps us a lot to make up when he is unable to come up with his share of things. I don't want that anymore and I don't want my daughter thinking that is "normal" for a man to not be able to hold a job. He said if we split up he is done because that's just the way he is. I think that is silly because I think a lot of good could come from a separation if we were both working on ourselves. I know he's thinking he will just try to get it under control but I KNOW it will just cycle around again. It always does. I'm so torn because things are "good" for right now..but I know it won't last. Is not separating his way of ....what? I don't even know I'm so confused.
His family still hasnt contacted me. I tried to contact one member that I thought would care the most and no response still. I have honestly given them reasons to think I'm crazy because they have seen us argue a couple of times and it was pretty ugly. But that is not who I am. That was my fear and anxiety and frustration coming out. One time it was because he had left the house with our child without my knowledge and I know he had been drinking. He went to that member of the family's house and said we had fought and I was crazy. I did get very angry when I arrived to pick our child up but the family member didn't believe me when I said he had been drinking and said if I would not act so crazy he wouldn't have to flee the house. The whole fight started because he was drinking and being an a$@ hole.
So I have circled around again. I want something to change but I am unsure of what to do. I want to be with him but only if he is sober and I don't believe that can happen if we continue living together at this point. There are things about myself that I want to concentrate on and work on and I believe he needs to do the same. I told him I don't want to break up or say we are done but he says it's one or the other. Why? Can't he see that what we are doing now is obviously not working?
His family still hasnt contacted me. I tried to contact one member that I thought would care the most and no response still. I have honestly given them reasons to think I'm crazy because they have seen us argue a couple of times and it was pretty ugly. But that is not who I am. That was my fear and anxiety and frustration coming out. One time it was because he had left the house with our child without my knowledge and I know he had been drinking. He went to that member of the family's house and said we had fought and I was crazy. I did get very angry when I arrived to pick our child up but the family member didn't believe me when I said he had been drinking and said if I would not act so crazy he wouldn't have to flee the house. The whole fight started because he was drinking and being an a$@ hole.
So I have circled around again. I want something to change but I am unsure of what to do. I want to be with him but only if he is sober and I don't believe that can happen if we continue living together at this point. There are things about myself that I want to concentrate on and work on and I believe he needs to do the same. I told him I don't want to break up or say we are done but he says it's one or the other. Why? Can't he see that what we are doing now is obviously not working?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5
Also, I have said to the family member I have contacted time and time again that he has pit us against each other to be able to do what he wants and get away with it but the family member will not believe me for anything. It's crazy. They cannot believe that their brother would do such a thing and I am sure that think I am even more crazy for even saying such a thing. It was hard for me to believe at first too! That's why I don't understand. Are they making conscious choices to manipulate people or is it just second nature to them? Do they even realize what they are doing? He never NEVER will admit when he has done something wrong.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tx
Posts: 117
I went through hell with my XABF and we also have a young child together, 2yr old DS. I finally left him in March after 4 yrs of utter insanity. It hurt like hell, but gets easier everyday. I had my share of crazy moments to match his alcoholic behavior and neither are acceptable; for me or my child. Someone said on here before that "Sick people make you sick," which i 100% agree with. I stayed in situation that left me an absolute wreck, because 1. i loved my XABF 2. i had that 1958 mentality of "Oh my son needs his dad." Wrong. WRONG. wrong. What kids NEED is stable, loving, caring, nurturing healthy people in their lives. I was NOT going to have my son grow up in that situation for 1 second longer. I knew i didnt want to be in the relationship anymore but my son was what ultimately got my ass in gear to put up my middle finger up on my right hand and wave goodbye with my left to my X. Imagine your child dating someone like their "father..." Would you find it acceptable all the things hes done to you for a potential partner to do to your child? I hope to God not! You staying in this situation is not only setting you up for more pain but your daughter as well. Youre showing her not what a strong independent woman is but that its ok to be mistreated, verbally abused, and basically just treated like dirt. Not a good look honey.
"He said if we split up he is done "<--- I woudlve told him, BYE FELECIA!!!!! This is his attempt to control you. When you let people treat you like sh!t, they will continue to treat you like sh!t.
"He said if we split up he is done "<--- I woudlve told him, BYE FELECIA!!!!! This is his attempt to control you. When you let people treat you like sh!t, they will continue to treat you like sh!t.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5
I always feel so naive. I didn't think about it being his way of controlling me or the situation. His need to stay "in control." That's probably why he never admits that he has not done anything wrong even when he is gone for days. It's my fear that if I if I go ahead with the depression his need to be in control and his pride and stubbornness will prevent anything good from coming of it. Is this a pipe dream that we could separately work on our lives and then be able to get back together.
Guest
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 25
I spent years going round and round in my head in a similar situation. It took that long for me to boil it all down to the one thing that really made the decision very clear and it was my child. Did I want my son to grow up thinking this is what a normal marriage is like? Did I ever want to hear/see my son behaving towards someone else the way his father was behaving towards me? Did I want him to think that this is how a wife behaves? And then, in thinking about the alcoholic family I grew up in and the less-than-constructive and sometimes destructive choices growing up in that world caused me to make, then the years it took me (and is continuing to take me) to sort out the garbage I learned there just to survive, that held me back as an adult... wow. I couldn't/wouldn't knowingly do that to someone. That's where I found my clarity.
One other thing to think about along those same lines... How will you feel when he does something with/to your child that could have been prevented had you taken this extremely difficult step now? I found that the hardest part was making the decision, and the clarity just gets brighter and brighter the farther in the past the decision (and acts based on it) get. You are going to be amazed at yourself!
Most importantly, you need to know and remember that you are very much stronger than you believe you are. *You are a survivor!* You have continued to exist and support a child while you are in daily pain and anguish that many, perhaps even most, would not begin to be able to manage!! You can get out and move on to a far better place. It will take time but then... so has what you are living in now. The way forward will begin to reveal itself once you find that you do have options. PLEASE call your local DV shelter and find out what your options are, as well as what support groups might be available to you.
You are strong, you will find your way to the other side of this.
((confus))
One other thing to think about along those same lines... How will you feel when he does something with/to your child that could have been prevented had you taken this extremely difficult step now? I found that the hardest part was making the decision, and the clarity just gets brighter and brighter the farther in the past the decision (and acts based on it) get. You are going to be amazed at yourself!
Most importantly, you need to know and remember that you are very much stronger than you believe you are. *You are a survivor!* You have continued to exist and support a child while you are in daily pain and anguish that many, perhaps even most, would not begin to be able to manage!! You can get out and move on to a far better place. It will take time but then... so has what you are living in now. The way forward will begin to reveal itself once you find that you do have options. PLEASE call your local DV shelter and find out what your options are, as well as what support groups might be available to you.
You are strong, you will find your way to the other side of this.
((confus))
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 32
I'm sorry for all you've been through. Many alcoholics are master manipulators. It's unfortunate but not surprising that people in your life don't believe you.
I struggled with that when I left my violent XABF. A handful of our mutual friends chose to stay by his side; some of my friends *refused* to believe that he'd beaten me up until I literally showed them my scar and pictures of bruises. They'd never had to spend long periods of time with the guy, so they totally bought into his sweet public persona.
If particular family members don't believe or support you, there's unfortunately not much you can do about it. It sounds super cliche, but if people aren't there for you in the hard times, you don't need them in your life. It totally sucks when people let you down, especially ones who you thought were in your corner. Honestly, for me, that was one of the most brutal parts of my break-up. My good news is, when I finally gave up trying to convince/win back people who had declared their allegiance to XABF, I reached out to others in my life and I was pleasantly surprised to discover great friends who have been wonderfully supportive of me!
You've shown great judgment putting your foot down about not letting your fiance drive your little girl around! I hope that shows you that you can stand your ground for you and your child even when it's not life-and-death situations. If you want a sober home, space, peace, stability, and time to work on yourself, that sounds completely reasonable! At the end of the day, all you can do is take care of yourself and keep making sure your daughter is safe. Hugs!
I struggled with that when I left my violent XABF. A handful of our mutual friends chose to stay by his side; some of my friends *refused* to believe that he'd beaten me up until I literally showed them my scar and pictures of bruises. They'd never had to spend long periods of time with the guy, so they totally bought into his sweet public persona.
If particular family members don't believe or support you, there's unfortunately not much you can do about it. It sounds super cliche, but if people aren't there for you in the hard times, you don't need them in your life. It totally sucks when people let you down, especially ones who you thought were in your corner. Honestly, for me, that was one of the most brutal parts of my break-up. My good news is, when I finally gave up trying to convince/win back people who had declared their allegiance to XABF, I reached out to others in my life and I was pleasantly surprised to discover great friends who have been wonderfully supportive of me!
You've shown great judgment putting your foot down about not letting your fiance drive your little girl around! I hope that shows you that you can stand your ground for you and your child even when it's not life-and-death situations. If you want a sober home, space, peace, stability, and time to work on yourself, that sounds completely reasonable! At the end of the day, all you can do is take care of yourself and keep making sure your daughter is safe. Hugs!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 32
Originally Posted by Workin 
I spent years going round and round in my head in a similar situation. It took that long for me to boil it all down to the one thing that really made the decision very clear and it was my child. Did I want my son to grow up thinking this is what a normal marriage is like? Did I ever want to hear/see my son behaving towards someone else the way his father was behaving towards me? Did I want him to think that this is how a wife behaves? And then, in thinking about the alcoholic family I grew up in and the less-than-constructive and sometimes destructive choices growing up in that world caused me to make, then the years it took me (and is continuing to take me) to sort out the garbage I learned there just to survive, that held me back as an adult... wow. I couldn't/wouldn't knowingly do that to someone. That's where I found my clarity.
One other thing to think about along those same lines... How will you feel when he does something with/to your child that could have been prevented had you taken this extremely difficult step now? I found that the hardest part was making the decision, and the clarity just gets brighter and brighter the farther in the past the decision (and acts based on it) get. You are going to be amazed at yourself!
One other thing to think about along those same lines... How will you feel when he does something with/to your child that could have been prevented had you taken this extremely difficult step now? I found that the hardest part was making the decision, and the clarity just gets brighter and brighter the farther in the past the decision (and acts based on it) get. You are going to be amazed at yourself!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Originally Posted by Confus
Is this a pipe dream that we could separately work on our lives and then be able to get back together.
1. I created an environment that better suited me and my children in our own home
2. My soon to be ex seemed to get more serious about recovery and AA
3. I was able to greatly reduce the stress and therefore increased my mental health, my job performance, and my ability to be a good Mom.
4. I was able to focus on my own recovery
We didn't make it as a couple...just too much left between us that doesn't appear to be fixable. But I was able to successfully separate and work on overcoming my own issues to be the person I want to be today. And my girls are settled and thriving once again.
So as far as I am concerned, the gamble paid off. This relationship- wasn't meant to be, but I am a much stronger, more successful person today because of it.
If you choose to leave, do so for you. Not for what you want or hope to have happen to him. I left to salvage myself and my family before we sunk completely. Was the best decision I have ever made.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5
Well I spoke to him today and said that we needed to split up and asked if he would be willing to go back to treatment. He said no and that he was willing to slow down. He says he drinks because I stress him out. He also said he talked to a member of his family, the one I have contacted, and they hate us being together and think we should break up. They think his drinking stems from the stress of our relationship. Is there any truth to this? Sometimes I buy into it when he says he drinks because of me because I am unhappy a lot but it's bc of the drinking and how unstable it makes our household. Why don't they understand this? How can they blame this on me?
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 29
Alcoholics tell you lies. Mine told me the same thing. When I left him alone, he ended up in the hospital. He said come back...I can't be alone. I laughed! Can't be home because I make you drink, can't be away because you drink! He is shifting blame to you. Don't pick I up sweetie. Go to an Al Anon meeting right away. You can't love him better.
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