FifiRhubarb

Hi everyone,
I have been lurking on here today and am so glad I found this site. I have already read so much helpful information here.

I should give a brief introduction, maybe? I'm never sure how to start something like this. I'm 23 (24 in a few days), and a full-time student who works part-time. I have never tried alcohol. Was raised in a religion where it was not allowed for the first 10 years of my life, and it just never appealed to me. Some of my siblings drink, my mom drinks, but I don't.

I met my boyfriend of a year and a half in November of 2010. I didn't know this right away, but he had just gotten out of prison a month earlier, where he served about 5 years for assault. He was adopted as a child (not as an infant) after being taken from his biological mother's home. She drank a lot and they think she drank while pregnant with him. Needless to say, he has a lot of issues. I had no idea what I was getting into when I met him. He had a falling-out with his adoptive family about a year ago and ever since then his drinking has gotten worse. As a result, I have felt neglected and disrespected for months (it takes him forever to get anywhere, he disappears for hours at a time, etc. And we do not live together).

I had no idea that his drinking was the reason--or even a problem--until about 2 months ago, when he finally told me. He says alcohol is and always will be at the center of everything he destroys. Things have gotten worse. From what I know, he will go a couple weeks without drinking and then get smashed again. This last time he berated me via text message for a few hours (we had been fighting earlier). What is most concerning about this is that he had a DV incident with his ex, which was the catalyst for him trying to commit suicide by cop, for which he got arrested. I know he was drinking and partying hard in those days. It is apparent to me he did a lot of work on himself in prison. He wasn't a heavy drinker at all from when he got out until the falling out with his parents. He has also completed a DV class, and I have never felt any danger with him. He has always been easygoing, never put me down, wanted me to have my own life, etc. I don't feel we have had a real dysfunctional relationship until the past few months. I know now that I can't be with him like this. I tried to stand by him while he got sober, but clearly that isn't happening. However, I am having such a hard time cutting ties. I don't want to cut ties. I want to give him a chance to get sober. Now everything is in shambles and this is completely foreign territory to me. Any guidance would be appreciated more than I can say!

jessiec

Welcome. Sorry you are dealing with this.Beteeen his past assault/volatility /family situation, neglecting, disappearing, disrespecting and drinking, there are a lot of red flags. Sadly, it's not enough for us to want our A to get well: it's the A who has to seek recovery.

Chrisy

welcome. glad you are here.

Pelican

Welcome to the SR family!

Thank you for taking the time to introduce yourself. I hope you will continue to post and read as often as needed. We are here to support you.

Since alcoholism is not part of your history, I suggest learning about this condition. A good place to start is reading here, reading some books like "Under the Influence". We have a post here at SR which contains excerpts from the book. Here is a link to that post:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...influence.html

After I did my own research on alcoholism, I began to understand how powerless I was over another adults addiction to alcohol.

I understand you want to see him get sober and want a relationship with the sober side of his personality, but he may not get there anytime soon. None of us want to see our loved ones continue to live a life devoted to alcohol....we want to see the best life possible for our loved ones.

That is where I discovered my codependency issues. I wanted to help other adults find their best potential, but usually at the risk of my own best life. I am a caretaker by nature. I am still working on taking better care of the one life I have control over - Mine.

Books like "Codependent No More" have helped me with my codependency. There is also a chapter in the book that deals with grieving loss. It helped me during my time of grief after the loss of my relationship with my alcoholic.

Stick around, let us know how we can help you.

Learn2Live

Fifi, he's not going to just "get sober" amd stay sober and remain the guy you want him to be. Or the guy you thought he was. This does not get better. The story always gets worse over time. There is no light at the end of this tunnel. No pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. He is a violent drunk with SERIOUS issues. Whatever you need to do to get an STAY away from this guy, please do it.

wellnowwhat

I wanted to help other adults find their best potential, but usually at the risk of my own best life. posted by Pelican

This describes codependency so well! It describes how innocent it feels, but how huge the price!

@Fifi: Please do all the reading, here and elsewhere, that will be recommended, and look for an Alanon group (try six meetings before deciding), and take some time to really mull things over.

Please include in that reading some information on fetal alcohol syndrome. If he has this, as you have suggested his mother drank while pregnant, it can greatly affect him, his personality and his decision making, including violent tendacies. It may influence whether he'll be successful in his battle with alcoholism. I am no expert, and have no training, but from the little I've read, it scares me.

Wishing you well.

FifiRhubarb

Thank you all SO much for the warm welcome and for your input. I know that alcoholism is a life-long disease, and that an alcoholic is never NOT an alcoholic, even if they are sober. I had already been looking at "Codependent No More" and officially bought it last night. This is very difficult, because in the 19 months we have been together, the drinking hasn't always been happening, and even when it has, it has largely resulted in his absence as opposed to him acting negatively toward me (not that either is okay). My family and I are very close, and my mom and stepdad are close with my boyfriend as well. Everyone close to me knows about his history and what happened most recently. I knew if I didn't, I would rationalize it. I am lucky to have a good support system. He was already in the process of getting treatment set up, worked on a relapse prevention plan, etc. when this happened.

NOTE: I am not excusing his behavior or saying he has made it all better, just wanted to provide some of the things he has done so far to give a clearer picture, in case anyone has any helpful advice:

He has apologized to me and to my family. He went back to his DV class on Sunday night even though he is no longer required to go. He says he doesn't even remember saying half of the things he said, but that that is no excuse and he truly thought he had changed. He told me "I will do classes, classes and more classes, I will do whatever I have to do. You are worth everything and I don't want to cause you any more pain." He has NEVER talked to me the way he did before this incident so I was very shocked. He doesn't even like it when people talk negatively about women. Throughout our relationship I have been the more codependent one, he has constantly reminded me to have my own life as well. He has never tried to cut me off from my friends or family, and in fact he encourages me to do things both with and without him. He has never put me down before, never even really raised his voice at me.

Intellectually I know I cannot make him do anything. I tried not talking to him for a few days and it felt so WRONG, like my gut was telling me this is not the right thing to do. My gut has never been wrong. We are talking now, but we set some boundaries. My inclination is to say "no I'm here whenever you need me, it's fine"...but he told me it would be better if I have boundaries, and I realized he was right. So I gave him conditions under which I will NOT talk to him (if he drinks, if he does anything to threaten his parole which he is on for 3 more months, etc). We are to have minimal contact (2 texts a day, each) and I will not see him until he has some sobriety under his belt. He has some stuff here at my house still but I told him he should arrange a time with my family where he can come pick it up, NOT with me.

Given his attachment issues because of the adoption and what he feels is the abandonment of him by his adoptive family, I feel it is important for him to have a little bit of connection with my family and me, as we are a big part of his support system. He does have a couple of close friends down here, but he is from Washington and most of his close friends are up there, and his closest friend is in the military in California. I am trying to keep my distance but I also know that feeling alone will NOT help him, but instead make him more likely to drink. Plus I want to talk to him.

Please be gentle - I am in a lot of pain and very confused. Everyone tells me what they think I should do, but most of the people I have talked to are completely unfamiliar with this kind of situation. It is so easy to preach when it's not your heart involved, so I hope that coming here will be a different experience than "leave him, you'll get over it, so will he."

laurie6781

All of the things you say you and your family are willing to do are great, HOWEVER (yep there is that 'but' again), what he really needs as a 'support' group are folks like himself IN RECOVERY that can not only help him to 'change' but TOTALLY and COMPLETELY understand his thinking processes.

Where will he find folks like that? AA. Yep, and in the process of going to all those meetings, lol and getting a sponsor, and 'working those steps', he will learn about living a 'spiritual' way of life and have role models to copy. Not only that, in the process he will start to create some friendships that will be LIFE LONG and will be with Sober and Clean people.

This is a choice, only he can make. You and/or your family CANNOT be his 'ROCK'. He must be his own 'ROCK'. He used his adoptive family as his 'rock' and thus it became an excellent EXCUSE to drink again. I would suspect that the falling out with his family are consequences from his actions, or lack of actions when needed.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with keeping your distance while he works on himself. Please bear in mind that it takes a good year of recovery for an alcoholic to actually start to become a productive member of society. It may take longer before an A is ready to have a 'healthy' relationship with a SO.

You are only, lol 24 and you have your whole life ahead of you. Is this how you want to spend your the rest of your life? With verbal abuse, being ignored, etc? You are worth so much more than that! Also, please bear in mind, that if in fact he does have FAS (Fetal Alcohol Syndrome) some of his behaviors may never change. There are parts of his brain that may be affected that alcohol or no alcohol will always be there. One of the most common ones comes from damage in the frontal lobe and those with FAS have a 'decision' problem. They just cannot tell when something is not good to do. I have a friend, another sober alkie, who adopted a little girl when she was 2. She has FAS. That child is now 24, and has a terrible 'compulsive problem'. She will think of something and just go ahead an do it, whether it is shoplifting, stealing a car, taking something, etc you get the idea. Yes she has 'frontal lobe damage'.

I believe you have a lot of reading to do, and a lot of work to do on yourself. Some writing daily (for your eyes only) and anything else you, other tools, you get from Alanon and/or some one on one counseling and here.

In the meantime, please keep posting and let us know how you are doing as we do care so very much.

Love and hugs,

Learn2Live

Right. They begin to talk and act in ways they never did before, and in ways that go completely against their values and morals. They ignore you and do things that cause you pain whereas before they were always so attentive and caring. The most gentle man turns into a raging lunatic. A man who wants to protect women and children winds up berating and abusing them. THAT's the nature of this disease.

Trust me, I know what you are feeling. I have been through what you have been through; this is my third time going through this. No one can tell you what to do. You have to make those decisions for yourself. Over time you will learn, and they will be painful lessons, but one can easily become stuck in these relationships, stuck in a vicious cycle, stuck on the rollercoaster ride. We're trying to help you step off.

FifiRhubarb

Thank you guys so much. You are telling me what I know, but am having trouble putting into words to tell myself, or that I don't know how to frame in the context of recovery, if that makes any sense. It all sounds so awful on paper. I know it does, and have always known that...but anyone who knows him sees he is so much more than that. I know that doesn't erase the problem. I get defensive of him because I know he is a wonderful, smart, loving person who goes out of his way to help people whenever he can. But he also has a disease, one that can destroy everything he has worked so hard for, and is hurting me along the way.

@Laurie - Yes, the falling out with his family was largely due to his actions. I will say I do not approve of the way they have reacted at all (I can't for the life of me imagine turning my back on family like that)...his mom is a narcissistic manipulator, and everyone else just plays by her rules. She is very similar to my mom's mom. With that being said, he will be the first to tell you that HIS actions are what caused her to react. And while I disagree with the way she reacted, HE is responsible for there being anything for her to react to.

I want to be there for him. I am learning to remember that I am not responsible for what he does. I cannot change what he does. I am not the key to his success, because if I was, he wouldn't be in this mess with me in his life. But it hurts me to not talk with him a little bit, to have some contact. I have struggled with severe depression for several years and I can't take any more of that. And while talking to him again hasn't solved things, it has made me feel a little better. If it didn't hurt ME not to talk to him, it would be so much easier...

laurie6781

You know sometimes, no many times the loved ones of A's finally reach the end of their rope.

I posted this just the other day in another thread:

I know some around here have heard (read) this story before but it has been awhile, so I will repeat it again, lol

In Jan of '79 I was 33 1/2 years old and my parents and family all said ENOUGH, NO MORE, this is YOUR PROBLEM you take care of it. If you call we will hang up, if you come to the door it will be closed in your face and if you try and steal from us we will call the police.

My response was to move across the country. It took me 2 1/2 more years to find recovery and the last 1 1/2 years I lived on the streets of Hollyweird.

In all my years since then I have stated repeatedly over and over, in and out of AA meetings, in and out of Alanon meetings, working with my sponsees, and on here:

"This was THE BEST THING THAT MY PARENTS EVER DID FOR ME."

Believe me they did plenty, they bailed me out of jail, they paid my mortgage payment, they were constantly giving me money.

When I was about 3 years sober and clean, my mom and I were talking and I asked her, after thanking her for about the 50th time, what happened that she and dad and sis were finally able to do this and mean it.

Her response was that they were at the end of their rope and had they not cut me out of their lives they would have been institutionalized in padded cells in straight jackets and she was not kidding. Back then, there really was not that much of Alanon yet available and she certainly had never heard of it.

I have worked with many sponsees that their parents did the same thing, and by gosh they managed to find recovery.


My family had ABSOLUTELY had it with me. Yes, they turned their backs on me. Yes, they went NO CONTACT. They gave me back my life, and what dignity I had left to FIGURE IT OUT FOR MYSELF.

And yes, there are many families, husbands, wives, significant others, siblings, grand parents, etc that have done the EXACT same thing. It is giving the A back their life and what they WANT TO DO WITH IT. It is also giving the A the OPPORTUNITY to reach their own bottom.

Our love, our caring, our concerns, CANNOT FIX the A in our lives. If it could NONE OF US would be here. In many instances our love, caring and concern is KILLING the A by NOT allowing them to reach their own bottom.

Yep, you have a lot of reading to do, lol

Love and hugs,

lillamy

You've gotten so much good advice already.

Two things in your post stood out to me:

1) He served five years for assault. Have you gone back and look at the court records? Because you don't get five years for assault for just smacking someone. Whatever he did to his ex was serious. Whether or not he's "reformed" it's important that you know what he is capable of. Where alcohol goes in, good sense goes out. He told you he was drunk when it happened. I can tell you that no matter how much alcohol you poured into me, I would never be able to assault someone in a way that would give me a 5-year prison term. In other words -- alcohol doesn't help, but alcohol also doesn't turn a mild-mannered man into an abuser. This is a huge, big red flag for me, and I have a strong hunch that you don't know the entire truth about this. Court records should be open and locatable, and if he's told you the truth, he shouldn't have a problem with you getting them.

HOWEVER -- I would not tell him I'm looking at the court records. I would be very, very careful.

2) Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, which children can be born with whose mothers drink while pregnant, among other things make it hard for the people who suffer from it to put their own behavior in a context of right/wrong. I know a FAS sufferer who will tell anyone that premarital sex is wrong -- and yet, he has fathered three children out of wedlock. If your bf has FAS, he may know right from wrong without understanding how it applies to him.

FifiRhubarb

lilamy - Since you brought it up, I will go into more detail. I already checked the records when he told me what happened. He did not do the prison time for assaulting his ex. That was one thing he did that day, after he found her cheating. I have cleared all this because you can bet your *** I wondered! Cheating is no excuse to assault anyone. Ever. When I first found out what happened, I hated her so much. I thought "how could she cheat on this wonderful man?" But with this all having happened, though I could NEVER ever cheat, I have thought to myself that I understand a little more what she must have been dealing with. He has made a concerted effort to never show any signs of jealousy, and we have had a lot of issues with me feeling like he is not as in love with him as he is with me. He has told me from the time we got serious that he did not ever want to be in the place where he would kill himself over a girl. Not again. And now I feel I am in that place. Sigh.

WorkInProgress8

It sounds to me like hes not the only 1 with attachment issues Fifi.... Please read all the information you can here, the rest of the web, books etc. Itll be such a big help because my friend DENIAL is not just a river in Egypt and it sounds like you are knee deep in it. I mirror the sentiments of everyone else here and say this with the utmost sincerity, Get the hell out of there! Picture your future, do you really want it to be spent walking on eggshells, babysitting a supposedly "grown" ass man who cant get his act together? If so, by all means stay with him if not, put on your best pair of tennis shoes and head for the hills.
"He says alcohol is and always will be at the center of everything he destroys. " <----Hes telling you right there exactly what is going to happen if you stay with him.

"I am trying to keep my distance but I also know that feeling alone will NOT help him"

Wrong. YOU do not know if feeling alone will help him or not. NOBODY does except for him. You will keep yourself trapped in this situation if you continue to try and rescue your ABF from himself. Honestly being alone might be exactly what he needs! Let him feel the weight of his alcoholic lifestyle ya know? YOU know how you feel. Own YOUR feelings & let him own his. Youre a college student with a part time job like me & you deserve better than to have some drunken idiot come stumbling up and knock you down rung by rung. YOU hold the key tro your own happiness, nobody else.

"he had just gotten out of prison a month earlier, where he served about 5 years for assault"
"I already checked the records when he told me what happened. He did not do the prison time for assaulting his ex."
Wait. What? Then what was he in jail for, for 5 years? Did he assault his ex or not? Sorry this confused me. Maybe im not reading it correctly but it doesnt make sense...

FifiRhubarb

I apologize for the confusion. He had several misdemeanors and several felonies, which of course got knocked down because prosecutors stack charges and see what the grand jury will indict on (at least in my state). The assault was a misdemeanor. He would not have served prison time just for that. He had several other charges that he racked up on that day after finding his ex with another man (I think I mentioned this above but maybe not). Anyway, I thought maybe more than one person here would know a felon but maybe not. It seems like everyone read "I was with a member of Al Qaeda"...not really sure. But I used to be in the same boat until I met him, and until a family friend who was brought up in an excellent home by respectable people landed himself in prison.

My BF is one of the only people I have ever seen for whom prison seems to have achieved the intended goal. He spent five years looking at where he went wrong, thinking about what he did, why he did what he did, and re-wiring himself.

Anyway, I digress. I swear WorkInProgress I thought you were psychic for a second when I saw "attachment" and "Egypt". I do have attachment issues, and almost mentioned that but was afraid somebody would see it as me making excuses for my boyfriend. My attachment issues stem from my father, who was the center of my world and who was very emotionally manipulative and told me I was his favorite. He abandoned our family when I was 6 and moved back to Egypt when I was 9. On my birthday.

I am clearly not as strong as you all, because this isn't helping. I don't feel I am in denial. I know he is an alcoholic. I know he has serious issues. I don't know if we can ever be together again. But I also know HIM, and I feel his past is honestly irrelevant in the context of our situation. Others, who know us both, agree. I understand that people who don't know him dismiss this as "oh he's been in prison, peace out already!" and I wish to GOD I could take one of your points of view. If he weren't an alcoholic should I still leave him? Since he's a felon? That's what I'm getting. I am doing a lot of reading and trying to learn, but I don't think I will be back.

laurie6781

I have said nothing about him being a felon. I don't give a rats azz that he is a felon. Many alkies are 'felons.'

I have only talked about his alcoholism and what HE NEEDS to DO FOR HIM. You cannot help him, you can only stand far back and watch his ACTIONS, do not listen to his words. When he gets recovery under his belt with TOOLS from a program, whatever program, be it AA, SMART, AVRT, CBT, Life Ring, whatever, but he needs tools, to work on the past issues.

Alcohol is but a symptom of deeper seated problems. He needs to work on his issues, and you need to work on yours, and then if it is meant to be, somewhere down the road a year or so from now, there might be a chance for you two.

Whether you stay or leave, we'll be here when you need to come back.

Love and hugs,

WorkInProgress8

Fifi hun you are deflecting from the main issue & making a bigger deal out of his prison stint than we are. Him being a felon is only a piece of the pie. The advice you've been given here is sincere and from people who know what they are talking about because they have/are going through similar situations. If you werent unhappy with your relationship,you wouldnt have came here. If you want to discontinue use of this website then that is your choice so own it. Please dont place the responsibility of your choices on our shoulders or anybody elses for that matter. We have shared words or wisdom. Take what you want and leave the rest. God bless

FifiRhubarb

Laurie - my frustration was not directed at you. I don't recall you saying things like "he was in prison - get out!" Perhaps that is not even what the other people meant, but that's how I interpreted it. WorkinProgress, I didn't feel a need to justify not using this website anymore because, as you said, the choice is mine. I know I personally would wonder and worry if someone whose situation concerned me just disappeared, so that's why I said that.

wicked

Hello fififRhubarb, (excellent name!)
My name is Beth and I am a recovering alcoholic. I am recovering from codependency, and, I am an Adult Child of an Alcoholic. My father was an officer in the Army, he was in the Infantry during Viet Nam, so he would leave, come back, go to some training, come back, go on a tour, come back. He was also a narcissistic alcoholic who terrified me. I was the oldest and I was his favorite too. When he was home, he drank vodka, and sometimes would call us downstairs (all 4 children) and drill us about our SSN, address, his rank, name serial number. Horrify us with stories about killing people.
But, and I think you might understand this, I adored him. He was very good looking and he could be extremely charming, but he could almost make me bleed with his sharp tongue.
(I grew up to do this to my second husband, I am ashamed of that.)
The difference in our stories is, my mother finally left him when I was about 11. It could have been like he abandoned us, because he disowned us. I talked to him on the phone one time, and he said not to bother him. (wow, i am 53 and that still hurts a little).

I understand your abandonment pain. And, since we are both hurting from that, we do not want anyone we have feelings or love for to feel that pain.
We do not feel able to abandon someone. I have a "boyfriend" I feel has abandoned me emotionally, but I cannot seem to let go, I will, (crying now) but not yet.
We must remember that our boyfriends are not the young children we were.
we were abandoned by someone who (as little kids) we thought would never leave. They couldn't do that to us. But they did. And now, fifi we must deal with it.
Can you see how some of your (and my) inability to let go of someone who is potentially dangerous to our hearts and minds can keep us both in pain? Grown men must take care of themselves while we try to heal that deep pain that was dealt to us as children.

Please don't leave the forum. I think you will get so much from this place, even some that you don't want to hear.
I have had one of those powerful "aha" moments from reading your story.
See how sharing can lighten the load for both of us.

Of course there is a book for abandonment. At one time we were calling it
"That Damn Book" because we kept putting off starting the work.
does any one here remember the title? by Susan Anderson.

Anyway, I want to thank you for being here, fifi. I will look for the book in my library of recovery stuff.

Please take care of yourself,
:ghug3

Beth

FifiRhubarb

Thank you Beth! Your post made my night. I am sorry to hear about your current situation and about the pain you endured in childhood. Sounds like our fathers were very similar in a lot of ways. You never quite knew what would set my dad off, and your father undoubtedly had PTSD which is so hard to deal with in a parent. My sister is married to an active duty soldier and I worry about him.

I adored my father, and he groomed me to adore him. He also was good looking and charming, a pillar of the community even. Until he wasn't. I told him when I was 6 that I would love him no matter what, and he proceeded to test my boundaries until, finally at 11 I told him to stop calling me.

Today is my 24th birthday, which means it is 15 years to the day since I last saw him. Him leaving was the best thing that ever happened. I don't remember feeling any hesitation when I told him I didn't want to hear from him anymore. Why was I so easily able to get rid of my father, my own flesh and blood, but yet I can't leave this relationship? I don't WANT to leave it...but at the present time I don't have much choice. Still, your post gave me some insight as well when it comes to painful relationships and how our abandonment affects us. Thank you!!