LuvsTaz

I have been doing a ton of research regarding my AH. Over the past 6-8 years he has progressively gotten more paranoid, bigger belly (almost protruding), changes his attitude almost on a dime (bi-polar syndrome?) and everything being my fault!

My youngest was staying with my Mom the past few days so he could spend time with my nephew. I went to get him yesterday and my Mom flat out told me that my kids are very unhappy! Really, deep down I think I knew this. I told my Mom that I have tried to talk to him before about how me and the kids don't like seeing him drink as much as he does and it got so turned around I did almost feel like it was my fault (I know it isn't)!! I am on the verge of telling him to leave -and I think he will if asked, but I have to have some facts straight and my money ducks in a row!

So, I know no-one can give medical advice but if there are any personal situations that can be spoke of or any websites that may give some more detail to any of the following, please respond. My AH is "all about facts", so if I have some, maybe he will listen just a bit, if not, he'll be out!

Facts I have: AH has been drinking for at least 18 years. I joke about his DAILY quota being an 18-pack a day of beer. Yes, 18 minimum per day. If he isn't working that day, it will take him all day to do it, if he does work, he will start as soon as he gets home and seems to drink them quicker as to meet his "qouta" before going to bed. I'm pretty certain he has drank this much for most of the last 20-25 years.

Here are some of my questions as I am concerned for his health:
Besides the protruding belly, paranoia and sudden mood swings, are there any other physical signs that other's have seen in alcoholics? He is not juandice, but I am concerned he is knocking on the door.

I would also like more information into the alcohol induced paranoia. For instance, last night as the neighborhood was shooting fireworks (we didn't/just watched) 2 ladies at 2 seperate times came walking the neighborhood looking for a dog that got out. AH was certain that they were out casing who had fireworks permits and who did not, or maybe they were even up to something more sinister! That was very strange to me as he hasn't been quite that paranoid before.

He is adament (sp?) that beer is much "safer" than hard alcohol. I need concrete proof on this one and not finding much (we are a 3.2 state and all the websites I have found are in relation to 6. beer).

I would like to show him some statistics of the damage drinking for 20-25 years can do, this is the one that I can't get my hands on and would love to see, if there is such a thing.

I am so sorry this is so long, but I just have this very strong feeling he is knocking on "liver failure's" door and I need some facts to back it up!

My "talk" with him will have to be in letter format, so being able to attach any kind of statistics or information I can only hope will make him see what he is doing to himself.

I know I didn't cause this, I can't control it and I can't cure it. But, I have been married to this otherwise wonderful person for 17 years and feel like I have to at least try and give him some facts as one last ditch effort for him to safe himself. If he can't, then I know there is no other alternative, that conclusion I have come to grips with.

Thank you again for letting me vent!

tjp613

Sounds to me like you would learn what you are looking for by reading "Under the Influence" by Milam and Ketchum. There are some excerpts from the book here but buy a copy and read the whole thing.

I always used to have my 1-2 glasses of wine at night BEFORE I read that book! What an eye-opener! Now I have maybe 1-2 a week!

Spes

I read your first post here so I won't repeat the replies people gave you then. Bottom line, there is nothing you can tell your husband that he either doesn't already know, or doesn't care to know. If you must try, there is a book I just finished titled: No More Letting Go: The Spirituality of Taking Action Against Alcoholism and Drug Addiction by Debra Jay you may find interesting.

My wife is an alcoholic that, despite my input and the input of Doctors, is dying from her addiction. Alcohol has affected both her mind and her body. She gets depressed and paranoid and, when it becomes to much, she tries to kill herself. She has serious medical problems including esophageal cancer from the alcohol. The cells don't care whether the alcohol came from beer, wine, or the hard stuff....alcohol is alcohol.

I've tried to reason, I've begged, I've cried, I've done everything I can to help her. She either doesn't want my help or, as I have learned, prefers the help of alcohol over me. The bottom line is that I am certain, as with your first post here, everyone will tell you that tryng to inform him for the purpose of changing him is pointless.

What has saved me is doing the research for me, not for her. Read everything you can and consider Al-Anon....and pray if you are so inclined. If you intend to stay with the alcoholic, I can assure you that watching them die is heartwrenching.

MrLofg0029

I'm an alcoholic in recovery and a I work in medical research.

Here's what's happening to your husband:

His brain chemistry (the neurotransmitters (NT) and their receptors) are completely out of balance. Specifically, a relaxing NT, gaba, is low as a result of drinking. The ethanol in his beer substitutes for the gaba his body would normally produce, and as a result, his bodies production of gaba is vastly depleted. Coupled to this is the fact that his brain and adrenal glands are producing excitatory NTs norepinephrine, epinephrine, and dopamine to balance out (reach equilibrium) the depressant effects of all the alcohol he's consuming. The brain receptors for these NTs are also being over-produced to cope with the excess depressant he's supplementing (alcohol). Once you add that up, the you have one very excited, agitated, and paranoid individual.

It manifests much like the paranoia observed in stimulant abusers, as well those suffering bipolar conditions and psychosis and depression. It is in fact, by every definition of the word, a disease state.

More likely than not, he's using alcohol as medicine to fight off the symptoms of his disease and also likely is that he no longer enjoys it.

Try searching pubmed for some free articles on these. If you need help interpreting the science, I can help.

Katiekate

I believe that it may just be more important to concentrate on your own and childrens recovery.

Your husband is responsible for his own health and well being.

18 beers a night is IMO ridiculous. Alcohol is alcohol, hard, beer , wine, the damage is still the same.

Talking to an active A about quitting is like banging your head against a brick wall. It sounds like he already has all of his denials , blame shifting, manipulations and lies all set to knock you off your feet.

You know the truth, go with that.

Please keep posting, Love to you Katie

CeciliaV

wow...MrLofg0029, thank you for that. I'm not in a medical field (although since my google-fu is strong and since I have a science background, I have become the medical researcher of the family, lol) - that kind of a purely scientific breakdown of the chemical & biological reactions is fantastic. It makes my very linear and logical brain hurt a lot less when trying to figure out the seemingly senseless behaviors. The rest of me still hurts the same, but at least I can better understand the chemistry/biology aspects now.

This scientific breakdown brings more questions to my mind though, and pardon me for going off-topic on this - what can be done medically/medicinally to assist an alcoholic through this chemical roller coaster? And is it helpful or harmful to introduce other chemicals/drugs into the sobriety equation? Part of me wonders if my AH can actually get off alcohol without medical intervention, since he binges so heavily (or what I consider heavily: 2-3 bottles of 200ml+ 80 proof for a number of days) and then withdraws so badly afterward.

Cyranoak

You aren't going to like this, but you are wasting your time researching your husband. Take all of that time and effort and use it to research yourself. Start by reading every Melody Beattie book, some twice, researching codependency and going to Alanon meetings. A lot of Alanon meetings.

Take care,

Cyranoak

tjp613

Sorry, but I don't agree with the posters that are saying that its a waste of time to research about the behaviors and physiological responses to alcohol abuse. Some people (like me, CeceliaV, MrLofg, and the OP) have a genuine scientific curiosity about these things. It helps us to understand.

CeciliaV

Yup, well said. I find an odd sense of clarity in all the chaos when I can see things from a scientific/analytical perspective. And I could use some clarity.

LaTeeDa

In my case, I discovered that all that 'research' and focusing on him and his problems was a convenient diversion from doing what I needed to do and learning about my own issues. Of course, I didn't realize that was what I was doing until much later.

A little research can be a good thing. But, spending all your time focusing on the alcoholic is actually a big part of the addiction dysfunction.

L

Spes

Forgive me tjp if I am out of line. I don't think anyone is denying the OP, or anyone else, information. My understanding is the OP wants the information for her AH in the hopes he will change. It seems that everyone is telling the OP that getting the A to change is a waste of time, not the information itself.

In reality, having others give me as much information as I could absorb is what helped me to begin my recovery. It breaks my heart that my AW didn't want the same information.

Again, forgive me if I am out of line.....I will do anything to help someone who is suffering because they are a friend or family of an alcoholic. It's just the alcoholic I don't seem to be able to help.

Respectfully,
Spes

Left

I have done a lot of reading on this, not to this scientific levels, but a wide range and it has helped me understand the disease a lot better. This has helped me know boundaries and also know what I can and can't change (I can change me but not others)

Good luck with your research, hang in there, keep reading and posting and eat and sleep well (both I have had to relearn)

Katiekate

I agree that doing research on the disease , for me, was of benefit, I don't however believe it can be of benefit, or will change the trajectory of the A disease.

My boyfriend quit drinking for a couple of years becasue his liver hurt, he didn't want to die. His liver doesn't hurt now, so therefore, he doesn't need to quit at this time. Now there is some alcoholic denial for you.

I haven't seen on story here on SR that points to a successful resolution or a change in drinking due to the facts.

LuvsTaz

I actually agree with both sides of this argument (so to speak)! I know I can't change him, but when he is not drinking he has a heart bigger than Texas and has the kindest words. When drinking, not so much. I guess that is why I was really curious on the scientific aspects of it all. I need to completely understand to better enable myself to rid the situation.

Right now, I have the time to research and really understand the alcoholic and to understand myself. I have done the calculations and I am working on a savings account for when the day comes to ask him to leave. It's growing slowly but it's growing, and he doesn't know about it either.

That made me think of something, a few years back he wanted to start seeing every penny that went out the door!! Ok, I made a "category" in my checkbook program titled BEER! He HATED it!! LOL

Thank you all for your comments, and yes, my next step is focusing on me! I am getting there!!

Learn2Live

I like to do research on this issue. I like to be informed and understand as much of the science as I can. It helps me emotionally when I understand that my father's behavior is the result of a disease and not the result of anything I did, or anything I do or do not have control over. I agree, it helps me set boundaries. I think likely most of us found Sober Recovery doing research on the internet to try to help someone we love(d). For me, how much research is healthy to do depends on how obsessed I am with someone else.

MrLofg0029

I want to establish that I am not a medical professional or physician. I have received no medical training and am unqualified to prescribe a course of treatment. Any and all information that I'm describing is what I've learned through personal experience, the experiences of others, and my own non-professional examination of the literature on addiction and its treatment.

Alcohol withdrawal is a very serious medical condition.

Some alcoholics/addicts are able to detox without medical intervention or external support. This is rare however, and not recommended both because it is unlikely to succeed and is life threatening due to significant risks of seizures and developing "wet brain". He would have to be checked into a detox facility. A typical medically assisted detox would involve monitored administration of benzodiazapenes (ativan, klonopin) to combat withdrawal and subsequent tapering off of the medication. These medications are narcotic, highly addictive, and come with their own risk of withdrawal, thus their administration should be medically supervised. Non-narcotic alternatives like neurontin have also been prescribed for withdrawal. A non-medical detox involves monitored care without pharmacological intervention (i.e. no meds). The client/patient is monitored by experienced staff during their withdrawal, and medical/pharmocological intervention happens only in the case of an emergency.

Many in the recovering community believe that the monitored, non-medical detox imprints an essential memory of the terrors of withdrawal.

Introducing any abusable narcotic creates the risk of developing cross addiction. This is extremely common among alcoholics and addicts, and often times the new addiction just becomes coupled to the initial addiction.

In my case, I refused to enter a detox facility and went through an ambulatory (outside medical observation) detox using ativan. It relieved my withdrawal symptoms, but what a nightmare. Soon I was addicted to the medication, then drinking at the same time, then tapering off the medication only to start drinking again at the end. It was a tough road and not one I'd recommend.

In the end, I still foolishly refused inpatient detox and rehab, but got sober with monitored administration of klonopin, quickly tapering it during the addition of neurontin, and then finally tapering off the neurontin. This took about 2 weeks, but my withdrawal symptoms were finally relieved. The worst occurred during the 1st 72 hours of this course of treatment.

I went almost 7 months without a drink before relapsing briefly (equivalent of a pint of vodka over 3 days). I experienced only mild hangover symptoms and did not require medical attention to get back to my recovery.

In most cases, the course of action with the highest rate of sustained abstinence, involves a monitored detox, inpatient rehab, a 12-step program, and ideally living in a sober community for a period thereafter.

I hope this helps give you some ideas.

MrLofg0029

I agree with this statement. I think it's reasonable to provide him with information regarding his options if/when he decides to get sober, but you must untether yourself from his addiction afterward. You may not even need to do this. I found help by going into an emergency room, getting honest with a physician, and asking for help. Prior to that, I was completely ignorant of how one could go about getting sober (and completely terrified as a result of my ignorance).