Boundaries
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Join Date: May 2012
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I found this on livingfree.org.
Learning to be at Peace with God
You can rest in the peace that God has the address of your loved one, no matter how deep they are in sin. His love far surpasses your love. He knows what will work best to bring your loved one to that point of change.
You've got to trust God-even when things are going from bad to worse. Stop offering the wrong kind of help. Stop feeding the problem. Stop being deceived. Stop mocking God. Trust Him.
Place Your Hope in Him
In Galatians chapter 6, Paul goes on to give words of encouragement after challenging us not to be deceived into ignoring God's law of sowing and reaping. "Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers." (Galatians 6:9-10 NIV)
Two times Paul refers to "doing good" to people. I think it would be very appropriate to say that he is referring to offering the right kind of help-not enabling. Let us not become weary of offering the right kind of help, which in some cases is offering "tough love."
Learning to be at Peace with God
You can rest in the peace that God has the address of your loved one, no matter how deep they are in sin. His love far surpasses your love. He knows what will work best to bring your loved one to that point of change.
You've got to trust God-even when things are going from bad to worse. Stop offering the wrong kind of help. Stop feeding the problem. Stop being deceived. Stop mocking God. Trust Him.
Place Your Hope in Him
In Galatians chapter 6, Paul goes on to give words of encouragement after challenging us not to be deceived into ignoring God's law of sowing and reaping. "Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers." (Galatians 6:9-10 NIV)
Two times Paul refers to "doing good" to people. I think it would be very appropriate to say that he is referring to offering the right kind of help-not enabling. Let us not become weary of offering the right kind of help, which in some cases is offering "tough love."
To thine own self be true.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
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Today I realized that my boundaries need to include the words I accept from others as truth. My AXBF has relapsed and he has been using our relationship as the reason. He keeps saying, "Our relationship hasn't worked for a year and you know that." And that is what keeps causing me so much distress and anxiety. I keep looking at all the things I did wrong over the last year. But today, he texted me the same thing again, that he "wants to be happy" and "our relationship wasn't working," as though our relationship is to blame for his turning into an a$$hole. And this time, THIS TIME, I did not cry over it (yes, I did still get sick to my stomach) and instead I called him on his bull$hit. I told him he is only fooling himself and I gave him examples that show how what he is saying is BS; how happy we have been during events over the course of the year. He hasn't answered my text. haha
To thine own self be true.
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Controllers: Not Respecting Others' Boundaries
Contollers cannot accept other people's limits. They resist taking responsibility for their own lives, so they need to control others. To controllers, no means yes and maybe means yes. Controllers are perceived as bullies, manipulative and aggressive.
The primary problem of individuals who can't hear No, which is different from not being able to say No, is that they tend to project responsibility for their lives onto others. They use various means of control to motivate others to carry the load intended by God to be theirs alone.
Controllers look for someone to carry their knapsacks (individual responsibilities) and their boulders (crises and crushing burdens).
Controllers come in 2 types:
Aggressive Controllers-these people clearly don't listen to other people's boundaries. They run over people's fences like a tank. They are sometimes abusive, verbally and/or physically. But most of the time they are simply not aware that others even have boundaries. It's as if they live in a world of Yes. There's no place for someone else's No. They try to get others to change, to make the world fit their idea of the way life should be. They neglect their own responsibility to accept others as they are.
Manipulative Controllers-Less honest than Aggressive Controllers, manipulators Try to persuade people out of their boundaries. They talk others into Yes. They indirectly manipulate circumstances to get their way. They seduce others into carrying their burdens. They use guilt messages.
Only when the manipulative controller is confronted with his dishonesty can he take responsibility for it, repent of it, and accept his and others' limits.
Manipulators deny their desires to control others; they brush aside their own self-centeredness.
Contollers cannot accept other people's limits. They resist taking responsibility for their own lives, so they need to control others. To controllers, no means yes and maybe means yes. Controllers are perceived as bullies, manipulative and aggressive.
The primary problem of individuals who can't hear No, which is different from not being able to say No, is that they tend to project responsibility for their lives onto others. They use various means of control to motivate others to carry the load intended by God to be theirs alone.
Controllers look for someone to carry their knapsacks (individual responsibilities) and their boulders (crises and crushing burdens).
Controllers come in 2 types:
Aggressive Controllers-these people clearly don't listen to other people's boundaries. They run over people's fences like a tank. They are sometimes abusive, verbally and/or physically. But most of the time they are simply not aware that others even have boundaries. It's as if they live in a world of Yes. There's no place for someone else's No. They try to get others to change, to make the world fit their idea of the way life should be. They neglect their own responsibility to accept others as they are.
Manipulative Controllers-Less honest than Aggressive Controllers, manipulators Try to persuade people out of their boundaries. They talk others into Yes. They indirectly manipulate circumstances to get their way. They seduce others into carrying their burdens. They use guilt messages.
Only when the manipulative controller is confronted with his dishonesty can he take responsibility for it, repent of it, and accept his and others' limits.
Manipulators deny their desires to control others; they brush aside their own self-centeredness.
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Join Date: Aug 2010
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I like what you posted about controllers. I keep wondering if my inability to set boundaries is my own way of controlling? I really need to read that book.
My AH fits both types of controllers depending on the situation. I feel like a broken record most times because I remind him that I don't like it when he teases me or makes fun of me and says, "You can't take a joke. You're too sensitive." Yet, after 17 years of marriage he still does those things and says those things. Or, he'll make comments like, "Guess I can't joke with you about that one since you can't handle it." It's stuff like that that makes me wonder if it's me or is it him? Am I really taking everything too personally or is he really just being a jerk and being mean in his own way? There's a fine line between poking fun at someone in jest and making them feel crappy for how they act or behave or open up cereal boxes(yes, a HUGE pet peeve of mine. AH used to get on me about how I open up boxes and how stuff will go stale because I don't open the interior packing right, etc and he has done this for YEARS) Yet if you ask him today, he'll say it's one of my endearing qualities and it's one of the special things we share in our marriage. Then, why do I feel like crap if I open a package and it tears down 3 inches and I say, "Great, now it's all going to go stale and he's going to say something to me about it?" I don't see it endearing, I found it hurtful.
My AH fits both types of controllers depending on the situation. I feel like a broken record most times because I remind him that I don't like it when he teases me or makes fun of me and says, "You can't take a joke. You're too sensitive." Yet, after 17 years of marriage he still does those things and says those things. Or, he'll make comments like, "Guess I can't joke with you about that one since you can't handle it." It's stuff like that that makes me wonder if it's me or is it him? Am I really taking everything too personally or is he really just being a jerk and being mean in his own way? There's a fine line between poking fun at someone in jest and making them feel crappy for how they act or behave or open up cereal boxes(yes, a HUGE pet peeve of mine. AH used to get on me about how I open up boxes and how stuff will go stale because I don't open the interior packing right, etc and he has done this for YEARS) Yet if you ask him today, he'll say it's one of my endearing qualities and it's one of the special things we share in our marriage. Then, why do I feel like crap if I open a package and it tears down 3 inches and I say, "Great, now it's all going to go stale and he's going to say something to me about it?" I don't see it endearing, I found it hurtful.
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live 
Today I realized that my boundaries need to include the words I accept from others as truth.
IME a big part of establishing and protecting that boundary was to quit listening, quit responding, quit accepting it into my life. It really did help. Maybe it is time to block his number?
ETA: I just read in another post where you are mostly no contact so you are already doing that. Disregard the question at the end
To thine own self be true.
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Join Date: May 2009
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Of course you find it hurtful, Lizatola, because it IS hurtful. I read your post, your description of his "teasing," and I recognize it from my past. It's called Passive-Aggressiveness. They are ways to control you by making you feel bad about yourself, under a cloak of "teasing" or "fun." it is a VERY sick way of relating to others and though I don't ever condone looking at yourself as a "victim," you need to realize that you are being controlled by a very sick-minded person. A manipulator.
My dad is an alcoholic and he had a "pet name" for each one of us kids and every one was derogatory. It has affected us all. He was STILL calling me that name when I was 40 years old! Still trying to manipulate me. The alcoholic and the addict HAVE TO control, in order to be permitted to continue drinking or drugging. To be in their presence is to subject yourself to sickness.
There are healthy thinking people out there. You need to surround yourself with these people. Positive, supportive people. Not sick, controlling people. You have been with your spouse too long. Look at what it is doing to you.
My dad is an alcoholic and he had a "pet name" for each one of us kids and every one was derogatory. It has affected us all. He was STILL calling me that name when I was 40 years old! Still trying to manipulate me. The alcoholic and the addict HAVE TO control, in order to be permitted to continue drinking or drugging. To be in their presence is to subject yourself to sickness.
There are healthy thinking people out there. You need to surround yourself with these people. Positive, supportive people. Not sick, controlling people. You have been with your spouse too long. Look at what it is doing to you.
To thine own self be true.
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Thanks for the post, Thumper. Yes, I went NC as soon as I realized he had spun completely out of control. I remember when I first learned to quit responding. Very early on in my recovery I learned about Reacting and learned that I needed to stop. I apply that today. When he first left the hurt, the pain, was excrutiating. I flew into sheer panic, could not stop crying. But as the days wore on and more was revealed, I came to see that the abandonment was not because of ME, it was because of HIM!! I saw the Blame in his words, in his excuses, and that was when I realized this was a relapse. That I truly am the strong, capable, desirable woman that I used to be. So it is still true that I must apply my Al-Anon tools everyday of my life. I take it One Day At A Time. I Let Go and Let God. I Breathe. I Stop Reacting. I Detach. Getting to the Detach with Love part; that's going to take some more time and effort.
(((hugs))) to all.
(((hugs))) to all.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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Liz my ex was like that too. The crossing of the line was so subtle and it gets murky. Please don't be confused. I am no longer confused and keep reading here and other things so I have the strength to never allow that in my life again.
It is another example of actions not matching words. My ex was very out of touch sometimes. I can't say for sure if he really understood what he was doing or not - but on my end it doesn't matter.
It is another example of actions not matching words. My ex was very out of touch sometimes. I can't say for sure if he really understood what he was doing or not - but on my end it doesn't matter.
To thine own self be true.
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Ten Laws of Boundaries, p84
Law #1 The Law of Sowing and Reaping
The law of cause and effect is a basic law of life. The Bible calls it the Law of Sowing and Reaping. ... Sometimes people don't reap what they sow, because someone else steps in and reaps the consequences for them, interrupting the Law of Sowing and Reaping. It is often people who have no boundaries who do the interrupting...by stepping in and rescuing irresponsible people. Rescuing a person from the natural consequences of his behavior enables him to continue in irresponsible behavior. The Law is still operating but the doer is not suffering the consequences; someone else is.
Today we call a person who continually rescues another person a codependent. Codependent, boundaryless people "co-sign the note" of life for the irresponsible person. Then they end up paying the bills-physically, emotionally, and spiritually-and the irresponsible person continues out of control with no consequences. He continues to be pampered, loved and treated nicely.
Establishing boundaries helps codependent people stop interrupting the Law of Sowing and Reaping in their loved one's life. Boundaries force the person who is doing the sowing to also do the reaping.
It doesn't help to just confront the other person. Letting the person know what you think about their behavior and that they need to change is only nagging them. They will not feel the need to change because their behavior is not causing them any pain. Confronting an irresponsible person is not painful to him; only consequences are. The Bible tells us it is worthless to confront foolish people: "Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you; rebuke a wise man and he will love you."
Codependent people bring insults and pain onto themselves when they confront irresponsible people. In reality, they just need to stop interrupting the Law of Sowing and Reaping in someone's life.
Law #1 The Law of Sowing and Reaping
The law of cause and effect is a basic law of life. The Bible calls it the Law of Sowing and Reaping. ... Sometimes people don't reap what they sow, because someone else steps in and reaps the consequences for them, interrupting the Law of Sowing and Reaping. It is often people who have no boundaries who do the interrupting...by stepping in and rescuing irresponsible people. Rescuing a person from the natural consequences of his behavior enables him to continue in irresponsible behavior. The Law is still operating but the doer is not suffering the consequences; someone else is.
Today we call a person who continually rescues another person a codependent. Codependent, boundaryless people "co-sign the note" of life for the irresponsible person. Then they end up paying the bills-physically, emotionally, and spiritually-and the irresponsible person continues out of control with no consequences. He continues to be pampered, loved and treated nicely.
Establishing boundaries helps codependent people stop interrupting the Law of Sowing and Reaping in their loved one's life. Boundaries force the person who is doing the sowing to also do the reaping.
It doesn't help to just confront the other person. Letting the person know what you think about their behavior and that they need to change is only nagging them. They will not feel the need to change because their behavior is not causing them any pain. Confronting an irresponsible person is not painful to him; only consequences are. The Bible tells us it is worthless to confront foolish people: "Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you; rebuke a wise man and he will love you."
Codependent people bring insults and pain onto themselves when they confront irresponsible people. In reality, they just need to stop interrupting the Law of Sowing and Reaping in someone's life.
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Join Date: May 2012
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Good reminder. I found that verse when I was looking for scriptures to support my need to stop enabling. And goodness knows I couldn't help xabf if I wanted to when he faces the judge on Friday!! 2nd offense and I have no idea what his BAC was, but if you can act like he did and "only" be at .08, then we need to lower the legal limit! I'm sure his was higher. Nope, he definitely has to reap what he sowed. I've been taking the back way out of the neighborhood past that house every time I'm tempted to go soft! God has a different plan for me!
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I am definitely going to order this book from Amazon. Wow, this is incredible stuff here, thanks so much for sharing it, L2L.
In spite of the fact that the EXABF is out of my life, there are still boundary-less people who have tested me recently-it seems, all at once. I find now, that I am getting better at setting and keeping boundaries and not feeling guilty about saying no when something makes me uncomfortable or goes against my principles.
It is a process for me, for all of us, not just set boundaries, but to stick with them and to be consistent, consequences be damned. The process for me, anyway, gets a bit easier as each day passes and I do believe that the people I have set the boundaries with realize that now, I say what I mean and mean what I say.
for this great thread!
In spite of the fact that the EXABF is out of my life, there are still boundary-less people who have tested me recently-it seems, all at once. I find now, that I am getting better at setting and keeping boundaries and not feeling guilty about saying no when something makes me uncomfortable or goes against my principles.
It is a process for me, for all of us, not just set boundaries, but to stick with them and to be consistent, consequences be damned. The process for me, anyway, gets a bit easier as each day passes and I do believe that the people I have set the boundaries with realize that now, I say what I mean and mean what I say.
for this great thread!
To thine own self be true.
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Join Date: May 2009
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This:
Exactly. But I did not even KNOW that I was enabling. Duh. All these years of learning about myself, this disease, all the work I have done, and STILL, I enabled. I feel like I was tricked but the real question is, did I just trick myself into denial that I was enabling because I wanted to be with this person and have fun????
Codependent, boundaryless people "co-sign the note" of life for the irresponsible person. Then they end up paying the bills-physically, emotionally, and spiritually-and the irresponsible person continues out of control with no consequences.
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This is a great thread! Wonderful info on boundaries.
I have had a lifelong problem of being boundary-less. As a result I have found myself very resentful of others. I felt they were the problem, when in truth, it was my inability to set boundaries that we the crux of the problem.
This was the result of growing up with a father (not an alcoholic) who used my attempts at boundaries as target practice. If I had a boundary, it became a game to him to tear it down. I learned that I didn't have a right to establish boundaries and therefore, didn't think others had that right either. It was a big ball of "haywire".
I am getting much better at establishing and protecting my boundaries. I started to recognize when I would start to feel resentful. That was the beginning of setting boundaries for me. If I felt resentful, there was either a boundary being crossed OR a boundary that needed to be in place but I didn't recognize it.
It's amazing...... when I began to understand, recognize, and acknowledge resentment, I began uncovering a method of establishing healthy boundaries.
Thanks for starting this great thread and sharing some wonderful insight on boundaries!
gentle hugs
ke
I have had a lifelong problem of being boundary-less. As a result I have found myself very resentful of others. I felt they were the problem, when in truth, it was my inability to set boundaries that we the crux of the problem.
This was the result of growing up with a father (not an alcoholic) who used my attempts at boundaries as target practice. If I had a boundary, it became a game to him to tear it down. I learned that I didn't have a right to establish boundaries and therefore, didn't think others had that right either. It was a big ball of "haywire".
I am getting much better at establishing and protecting my boundaries. I started to recognize when I would start to feel resentful. That was the beginning of setting boundaries for me. If I felt resentful, there was either a boundary being crossed OR a boundary that needed to be in place but I didn't recognize it.
It's amazing...... when I began to understand, recognize, and acknowledge resentment, I began uncovering a method of establishing healthy boundaries.
Thanks for starting this great thread and sharing some wonderful insight on boundaries!
gentle hugs
ke
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Join Date: May 2012
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Hmm, yes, interesting perspective. I had a rude awakening today that I obviously hadn't set clear boundaries when xabf said he wAnted to treat this like a "separation". Obviously, my choice to NOT go NC is making me resentful, but I also didn't dictate clearly what contact we could have, and he's taking advantage. Once again, thank you L2L and Kind Eyes for shedding some light!
To thine own self be true.
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Yes, Bluebonnet, I know what you mean. AXBF has stated he wants to be "friends." Seriously?? You live in my house for 2 and a half years and then all of a sudden just don't come home one night and then the next day tell me you are moving out? And you want to be friends? Why would anyone want to have a friend who DOES things like that??? I know that 16years ago, though, I WOULD HAVE FALLEN FOR IT! I would have been as hurt as I am now, and I would be hanging on to any little shred of evidence that he still loved me. And I would be dragged through HELL again. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. NOT GOING BACK THERE AGAIN. At least this time I have SOME boundaries that I know how to put into place to keep myself half sane.
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