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I hate it when he's really normal

Old 06-22-2012, 04:18 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by anvilhead View Post
you are stuck in the dynamic of "Can't see the forest for the trees" - focusing on a single "normal" seeming act amidst of body of work that indicates anything BUT normal. it's time to ACCEPT that he is inconsistent, ACCEPT that he chooses to drive on a suspended license, ACCEPT that he does not and cannot live up to the ROLE you envision of a husband and father. IT IS WHAT IT IS. really all he did was manage to hold one decent phone conversation...............not sure in the grand scheme that really rates a whole lotta hoo hah?
This is what I remind myself of when the "what ifs" hit. It is hard at times to see the forest for the trees when you have been with someone a long time. When I question why I am leaving I remind myself that AH was holding a "normal" loving husband father conversation with me by text message when in reality he was high, fighting with his sister and getting thrown out of her home. And had just alienated my brother the day before showing up at his house high. I had no idea in the world what he was really doing that weekend. He let on nothing. Crazy started realizing then that I didn't really know who he was anymore.
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Old 06-22-2012, 07:21 AM
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I am well aware that I am dealing with more than your average dry drunk, or A, meaning he has some mental issues...and I guess alcoholism is a mental issue, too, but

Ususally when my RAH whether he was drunk or now, when sober is acting really normal, it means that something is up...he is either doing something he shouldnt be, or he has a messy disorganized storm brewing.

I am kind of starting to feel like he gets excited and happy too when he has 'normal' times, and that HE also has trauma and fears about that other shoe dropping, and sometimes it seems like these normal times foreshadow a bad spell.

Just something I have been taking note of for my own sanity.
For his part, his new thing is to use all the healthy Alanon language and psych speak from the books I have been reading on personality disorders. (I swear he has caught on that I am reading up on it, so he searched it and he is switching it onto me.)

When I would get frustrated, in a conversation about our son, or plans,he would throw out things like, "Well, I am sorry that you see things that way. Your anger will not help. I will just continue working toward health and balance for myself and our son."

You can be sure it wont last long. Not until he addresses the root issues, because he CANNOT MAINTAIN the normalcy. At least not now, or yet.
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Old 06-22-2012, 08:33 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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Yeah, well he didn't maintain the happy high he had while on the phone once he got back. He's being pleasant but now I realize that's because he's going on another business trip next week to NM. Yep, he's going to rent another car, too, LOL!

Anyway, I'm really glad that I've decided to not give him the letter. If I had to think so hard about my own motivation then I know it wasn't the right timing. I put the letter in my God box, I will pray about what steps I need to take, and I will enjoy my trip to FL.
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Old 06-22-2012, 08:50 AM
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You aren't still surprised that he will continue to rent a car whenever away on business are you liz??

I think as long as you stay stuck in his detail, you are going to have a difficult time coming to terms with this and honestly making a plan for what you are really going to do.

I hope you can enjoy your trip without fretting about what he is doing the whole time.
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Old 06-22-2012, 08:59 AM
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Something SR helped me to realize is that it really wasn't about the drinking. It was about the behavior. So, if he drinks AGAIN, you will leave? He already drank AGAIN since he supposedly quit. If he gets in trouble with the LAW, you will leave? He's already in trouble with the law, hence his suspended license.

The message you seem to be sending is that his behavior is okay with you, as long as he doesn't get caught. Or maybe you just keep moving your line in the sand because he keeps stepping right over it?

L
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Old 06-22-2012, 09:10 AM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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Liz, one of the things I am picking up in your posts is there is a lot about HIM. He is or isn't doing this, should I or should I not tell him, what will he do, etc.

What really helped me was a little shift in perspective. What did I want? If I took all of her feelings and expectations and drama and drinking out of the equation what did I want? I am up with 2 things.

1 was I wanted things to go back to the way they were before it went bad, but if I was honest I knew she wasn't going to change and that too much had happened for me to pretend it didn't.

2 was I wanted the pain to stop. The only way I could figure out how to do that was to leave. She was the primary source of the pain and I couldn't get better until I could stop the pain.

So, my question to you is, what do you want with your life, after all it is your choice and your choice only.

Your friend,
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Old 06-22-2012, 09:40 AM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by LaTeeDa View Post
Something SR helped me to realize is that it really wasn't about the drinking. It was about the behavior. So, if he drinks AGAIN, you will leave? He already drank AGAIN since he supposedly quit. If he gets in trouble with the LAW, you will leave? He's already in trouble with the law, hence his suspended license.

The message you seem to be sending is that his behavior is okay with you, as long as he doesn't get caught. Or maybe you just keep moving your line in the sand because he keeps stepping right over it?

L
Yes, maybe that's it. In the letter I was going to give him I explained how what he was doing compromises my values and beliefs and violates the law and how that affects us as a family. I have chosen to not actually SPEAK to him about any of his behaviors because he doesn't seem to want to hear the truth. Maybe I should give him the letter after all? At least then he knows my thoughts, but what good is that really going to do? I am not ready to walk out yet, I know it's crazy but I'm just not there yet. I'm going to work hard at acceptance and I finally got a sponsor in Al Anon so I'm hoping to gain some insight and serenity as I move forward.
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Old 06-22-2012, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by LaTeeDa View Post
That is exactly why this board, Alanon, and codependency exist. If they were flaming jerks 100% of the time, there would be no problem kicking them to the curb, right? It's exactly the inconsistency that keeps us hooked.L
That is one reason I keep coming back to this board because reading the posts just validates the reason why I left him. Recently the doctors have told him his liver is at it's end he has stopped drinking and actually is normal when we talk which gets my emotions going again and I think . . . then I come here and I remember why I left in the first place.
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Old 06-22-2012, 09:52 AM
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You're right. Speaking to him about his behavior, giving him the letter, drawing him a picture--none of it will change anything. Zero, zip, nada.

It's not HIM that needs convincing, it's you. If his behavior is unacceptable, why are you accepting it? He doesn't need to know your thoughts, you do. What are they? You say you are not ready to walk away. Do you know why? Are you hoping if you say just the right thing, write the perfect letter, he will slap his forehead and say "of course! you are right! what was I thinking?" (I say that because that's where I was for a long time.)

Your mental energy is much better spent figuring out you than him.

L
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:09 AM
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I explained how what he was doing compromises my values and beliefs
He can't compromise your values and beliefs, they are yours, not his. Maybe what is bothering you is that you are compromising your values and beliefs by accepting his behavior?

Your friend,
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:17 AM
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This thread brings up an interesting thing being pondered over at a different forum I belong to, one for SOs of personality disordered folks.

It is about the three top stumbling blocks to re engaging with a disordered person. The site is so similar to this one in so many ways, you could basically insert alcoholic in place of PD...

Anyway, one of the top three things everyone listed and voted in was the non PDs need to be HEARD.
Validated, if you will.

Just like over here, there are old timers and people who are passing on ESH about their successes.

One of the top three:

Letting go of e need to be heard, validated or absolved, proven right, whatever. In a letter, face to fce, or whatever.

It won't change them. You could just as easily send the letter to an inbox labeled God.

It is really helping me.to remember that I don't need to be heard by him, validated, agreed with, absolved.
I give that to myself, after all, and that is true health.


Just a thought about that letter.
I( am on an iPad and I am just not that good at typing on this thing, so pardon the typos)
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:30 AM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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You might as well do this. At least the tree won't get mad.

Your friend,
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by m1k3 View Post
He can't compromise your values and beliefs, they are yours, not his. Maybe what is bothering you is that you are compromising your values and beliefs by accepting his behavior?

Your friend,
Yes, thanks for the clarification. In the letter I did tell him that I felt I was compromising my values but it came out wrong when I typed up my quick response here. And, yes, that is what bothers me and why I am so freakin' stuck in making a decision? I don't know if it's fear that's paralyzing me, I don't know if it's hope for a better tomorrow because surely he'll figure it out himself soon, right? Maybe it's just sheer stupidity on my part? I don't know, all I know is that I am so tied to this guy emotionally and financially that I can't see my hand in front of my face. And, that's me just being plain old honest with myself as much as it sucks.
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:36 AM
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Oh thank you for this post ! It has centered and grounded me again- I was tying myself up on codependent knots.
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by lizatola View Post
Yes, maybe that's it. In the letter I was going to give him I explained how what he was doing compromises my values and beliefs and violates the law and how that affects us as a family. I have chosen to not actually SPEAK to him about any of his behaviors because he doesn't seem to want to hear the truth. Maybe I should give him the letter after all? At least then he knows my thoughts, but what good is that really going to do? I am not ready to walk out yet, I know it's crazy but I'm just not there yet. I'm going to work hard at acceptance and I finally got a sponsor in Al Anon so I'm hoping to gain some insight and serenity as I move forward.
Just food for thought Liz,

I think he knows that what he is doing goes against your values and beliefs. How could he not.

You are not willing to tell the truth to anyone who can not hear it. And the thing about telling the truth to an A is , it throws more manipulations , lies, half truths and slicing and dicing into the mix, at some point I know I stopped talking because I could not be cut wide open again.

If you are not ready to walk yet, you are not, leaving will continue to be in your mind, but you are growing and moving forward, so sometimes that has to be where you are. Things are opening up for you, the timing for the vaca is perfect, enjoy it and things will all fall into place.
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by lizatola View Post
Yes, thanks for the clarification. In the letter I did tell him that I felt I was compromising my values but it came out wrong when I typed up my quick response here. And, yes, that is what bothers me and why I am so freakin' stuck in making a decision? I don't know if it's fear that's paralyzing me, I don't know if it's hope for a better tomorrow because surely he'll figure it out himself soon, right? Maybe it's just sheer stupidity on my part? I don't know, all I know is that I am so tied to this guy emotionally and financially that I can't see my hand in front of my face. And, that's me just being plain old honest with myself as much as it sucks.


Liz , these fears will get smaller and smaller, of course you feel these things, you are in a very very hard place, but you are strong enough to move through all of this. You have this, be patient and compassionate with yourself. I lied like crazy to myself, for way too long. I have stopped now.
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:47 AM
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Liz, one little thing that helped me when I was were you are now.

Hope clouds observation. That quote is from Dune but it worked great for me.

As long as I was hoping I wasn't seeing.

Be gentle on yourself as well. Whatever decision you make doesn't have to be made by 3 PM today. Take your time and be patient. Wisdom will come and you will do what is right for you. As long as you are looking at things as they really are and not how you hope they are you will make the best decision you can for you.



((((hugs))))

Your friend,
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by lizatola View Post
Yes, thanks for the clarification. In the letter I did tell him that I felt I was compromising my values but it came out wrong when I typed up my quick response here. And, yes, that is what bothers me and why I am so freakin' stuck in making a decision? I don't know if it's fear that's paralyzing me, I don't know if it's hope for a better tomorrow because surely he'll figure it out himself soon, right? Maybe it's just sheer stupidity on my part? I don't know, all I know is that I am so tied to this guy emotionally and financially that I can't see my hand in front of my face. And, that's me just being plain old honest with myself as much as it sucks.
You're not stupid nor are you crazy. (At least not any crazier than the rest of us, lol.) You will figure it out. It will help if you put down the magnifying glass a pick up the mirror.

Have you asked your therapist to help you figure out why you are stuck? I only ask because it seems that you have been working in therapy toward "making your marriage work" rather than "making yourself happy." Maybe it's time to change the focus.

L
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Old 06-22-2012, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Katiekate View Post
Just food for thought Liz,

I think he knows that what he is doing goes against your values and beliefs. How could he not.

You are not willing to tell the truth to anyone who can not hear it. And the thing about telling the truth to an A is , it throws more manipulations , lies, half truths and slicing and dicing into the mix, at some point I know I stopped talking because I could not be cut wide open again.

If you are not ready to walk yet, you are not, leaving will continue to be in your mind, but you are growing and moving forward, so sometimes that has to be where you are. Things are opening up for you, the timing for the vaca is perfect, enjoy it and things will all fall into place.
And, that is why I had stopped myself from giving him the letter. I knew it would just throw more lies, justifications, minimizations, etc my way and that I would just be hurt once again.

I just remembered an email that I sent him about 18 months ago when he had a nasty drunk episode. This was well before I had Al Anon and back when he had just started drinking again, hiding it, etc. I told him how I felt about the drinking, how he quit for a reason 15 years prior and how I hadn't wanted to marry him if he was a drinker, and I poured my heart out. He told me he wouldn't drink again, but he did. It really didn't make a difference. I mean, maybe it gave me a nanosecond of peace to know that maybe he understood where I was coming from, but in the end the message I sent did nothing. The funny thing is: he printed the email and keeps it in a keepsake box of cards and letters I've given him. So, even though he kept drinking he thought enough of my communication to keep it for some reason.
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Old 06-22-2012, 11:31 AM
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I understand where you are lizatola. I stayed in marriage and in limbo for a really long time...too long. I struggled with the same fears you're struggling with now.

If there was one thing that I wish I had realized sooner and actually accepted on a gut level...is that alcoholism is a disease. It isn't a moral failing. Pouring your heart out to him about how his drinking makes you feel doesn't do anything. If your AH had cancer...would it do any good for you to pour out how you feel? No...of course it wouldn't. But somehow, when the disease is alcoholism, we think something we say or do will make a difference. BUT IT WON'T. It can't.

Your AH has a disease.
There is no cure.

IF he were willing to actively work a program...I mean work really, really, really hard on his recovery, he might be able to manage his disease but he'll never be cured.

Nothing you say or do will change this fact. Nothing.

You can't steer him in the direction you want him to go. You can spend the next week, month, or decade trying but nothing you do or say is going to change what he does.

Once you accept this...really and truly accept it, you'll realize that the ONLY person you can control and change is YOU.

I'm glad you're thinking about getting an alanon sponsor. Getting a sponsor was a HUGE turning point for me in my recovery. It's the only thing that got me out of limbo.

Hugs...I understand...I really, really do...:ghug3

mary
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