Don't Know Whether to Laugh, Cry or Scream
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 741
Don't Know Whether to Laugh, Cry or Scream
Yesterday evening my ex requested the kids for a few hours, which I don't have a problem with. He brought them back around dark - simple, right?
Except while he had them he told them that I was pretty much stupid for refusing to buy his car and that I was just wasting money on taxis when I could be involved in a "win/win" situation. He told them he could just pay his bills if I would buy his car.
HELLO? You are having this discussion with your own children?
He also told them under no circumstances was I ever allowed to tell them they couldn't talk to him on the phone or see him. I have never kept them from talking to him or seeing him. But he assumes that every time he calls and nobody answers(usually 'cause we aren't there) that I am somehow chaining the kids to the wall so they won't have anything to do with him.
I don't care if he wants to talk to them, I just don't want him talking to me.
He also told them that the reason they aren't over at his house while I work anymore is because he is getting his child support reduced/eliminated and it made me mad. I had to explain to them the the child support wasn't the issue - it was the lack of hot water, full electricity, and food. They said the only electricity he has in the house right now is coming from a power strip attached to an extension cord (that I believe he has snaked down a floor vent to the basement - essentially stealing electricity from the common area).
He also told them that they weren't allowed to talk to me about anything mentioned above - but somehow they seem smarter than that....
OH GEE - if I could just be a good little codie and fall into line - buy his stupid car, let him keep the kids in a garage, let him off the hook just one more time.....
AIN'T. HAPPENING.
At this point him going to court to get the CS changed is pretty much inevitable. But I think that he thinks its gonna go down without a fight. You see, I'm 95% sure that unless I sign a paper agreeing to the change, it goes in front of a judge for a hearing. I don't have a lawyer but this is what I found from research on the Internet. He probably thinks he is just gonna explain it to me and OF COURSE I will agree with him because he is super-smart - right? I actually don't disagree with a short stay on CS. But I want it followed up with weekly Find Work reports and a pre-agreed revisiting of the issue.
Every time he tries this stuff, I just think of that scene in "The Blues Brothers" where Carrie Fisher's character finally corners Jake in the muddy passage and lays down all the reasons she is angry with him - he stood her up at the altar, used family favors, used HER. He uses those puppy dog eyes and gives a million excuses, flashes a smile - and she lets him off the hook. He then sweeps her into a passionate kiss.....and then promptly dumps her face-first into the mud and says, "Let's go".
Kinda rambly today, sorry....this thing with the kids is just immature and annoying. Wish he would find a job, or a girlfriend, or something. As soon as he gets time on his hands, this crap starts. Did the same thing the last time he got fired for his sterling personality as well.
GRRRRRR.........
Except while he had them he told them that I was pretty much stupid for refusing to buy his car and that I was just wasting money on taxis when I could be involved in a "win/win" situation. He told them he could just pay his bills if I would buy his car.
HELLO? You are having this discussion with your own children?
He also told them under no circumstances was I ever allowed to tell them they couldn't talk to him on the phone or see him. I have never kept them from talking to him or seeing him. But he assumes that every time he calls and nobody answers(usually 'cause we aren't there) that I am somehow chaining the kids to the wall so they won't have anything to do with him.
I don't care if he wants to talk to them, I just don't want him talking to me.
He also told them that the reason they aren't over at his house while I work anymore is because he is getting his child support reduced/eliminated and it made me mad. I had to explain to them the the child support wasn't the issue - it was the lack of hot water, full electricity, and food. They said the only electricity he has in the house right now is coming from a power strip attached to an extension cord (that I believe he has snaked down a floor vent to the basement - essentially stealing electricity from the common area).
He also told them that they weren't allowed to talk to me about anything mentioned above - but somehow they seem smarter than that....
OH GEE - if I could just be a good little codie and fall into line - buy his stupid car, let him keep the kids in a garage, let him off the hook just one more time.....
AIN'T. HAPPENING.
At this point him going to court to get the CS changed is pretty much inevitable. But I think that he thinks its gonna go down without a fight. You see, I'm 95% sure that unless I sign a paper agreeing to the change, it goes in front of a judge for a hearing. I don't have a lawyer but this is what I found from research on the Internet. He probably thinks he is just gonna explain it to me and OF COURSE I will agree with him because he is super-smart - right? I actually don't disagree with a short stay on CS. But I want it followed up with weekly Find Work reports and a pre-agreed revisiting of the issue.
Every time he tries this stuff, I just think of that scene in "The Blues Brothers" where Carrie Fisher's character finally corners Jake in the muddy passage and lays down all the reasons she is angry with him - he stood her up at the altar, used family favors, used HER. He uses those puppy dog eyes and gives a million excuses, flashes a smile - and she lets him off the hook. He then sweeps her into a passionate kiss.....and then promptly dumps her face-first into the mud and says, "Let's go".
Kinda rambly today, sorry....this thing with the kids is just immature and annoying. Wish he would find a job, or a girlfriend, or something. As soon as he gets time on his hands, this crap starts. Did the same thing the last time he got fired for his sterling personality as well.
GRRRRRR.........
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
:agh: What a loser!
I would not even entertain the idea of giving him any kind of break on the child support. He'll never get a job. His job will be playing games with you and the system to never pay up. If he wants to eat (and not get waaay behind in child support!) he'll go find a job. He doesn't have to agree to re-visit the issue. You can talk to the courts just as easily as he can. If he gets a great job you simply apply to the courts to have the child support re-visited, just like he plans on doing.
My lovely xah quit his job/got fired before the courts decided on child support. I think he thought I'd be paying him but since he didn't have a job, he couldn't pay his attorney to fight for that. Anyway - they figured him as having a minimum wage job and went from there so even unemployed people do not 'get off the hook'. He's way behind in it but that is another story.
Sorry you have to deal with him. It is awful for my kids that their dad (who is apparently sober now) has abandoned them but my life is so much simpler even though I haven't had a time away from parenting for two years.
I would not even entertain the idea of giving him any kind of break on the child support. He'll never get a job. His job will be playing games with you and the system to never pay up. If he wants to eat (and not get waaay behind in child support!) he'll go find a job. He doesn't have to agree to re-visit the issue. You can talk to the courts just as easily as he can. If he gets a great job you simply apply to the courts to have the child support re-visited, just like he plans on doing.
My lovely xah quit his job/got fired before the courts decided on child support. I think he thought I'd be paying him but since he didn't have a job, he couldn't pay his attorney to fight for that. Anyway - they figured him as having a minimum wage job and went from there so even unemployed people do not 'get off the hook'. He's way behind in it but that is another story.
Sorry you have to deal with him. It is awful for my kids that their dad (who is apparently sober now) has abandoned them but my life is so much simpler even though I haven't had a time away from parenting for two years.
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Winchester, VA
Posts: 129
Let it go in front of a judge. He's physically able to work right? I don't have children, I have furbabies and I would dig ditches, shovel sh**, work fastfood or whatever it took to make sure they have what they need.
Why does he think he shouldn't have to do the same?
And as far as you buying his car? Cabs aren't more expensive when you factor in the car needs fuel, repairs & maintenance, insurance, taxes, tags, title, yada yada yada. It's you're choice and it really ticks me off that he is using your kids to try to manipulate you into doing what he wants. Control from afar...whatta butthead.
Sorry if I sound snippy. I hate the manipulation game no matter if it's on me or others. To me it's just fighting dirty, especially when the kids are played into it.
Why does he think he shouldn't have to do the same?
And as far as you buying his car? Cabs aren't more expensive when you factor in the car needs fuel, repairs & maintenance, insurance, taxes, tags, title, yada yada yada. It's you're choice and it really ticks me off that he is using your kids to try to manipulate you into doing what he wants. Control from afar...whatta butthead.
Sorry if I sound snippy. I hate the manipulation game no matter if it's on me or others. To me it's just fighting dirty, especially when the kids are played into it.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 82
I am the RA and I would never think to talk to my daughter about things between the ex and I. We use Our Family Wizard to communicate about our daughter. I'm not sure if you can request/require this from the courts. Document this and every other time the kids come back with a message to you. The courts don't think very highly of these tactics.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,393
As a divorced woman with a child I can tell you do not say bad things about your ex. Let your children talk to him on the phone anytime they want. Keep the lines of communication open for them. Encourage them to call him. He will always be their father. If he says something negative about you and they report back tell them that the two of you have problems. It is not about them. He is their father and loves them. You will be glad you did this. For the child's sense of security. Do not put them in the middle. Do not say anything bad about him in the presence of your children. It is very hurtful to them. They need this security. It's so important to not say anything bad about your children's father. If you need to vent, do it far away from the kids. Hugs to you. It's a good thing.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
In my divorce, my AXH was seriously considering quitting his job just so that he wouldn't have to pay child support (brilliance! revenge!). His lawyer advised him that a judge canorder child support based on earning capacity rather than actual earnings, and that he could end up paying more than he would if he kept his job.
We also have written into the divorce agreement (and you could probably amend your custody agreement to say something similar) that we are not allowed to discuss our relationship, our divorce, or badmouth the other parent in front of the children. It's hard to enforce, but with someone as totally lacking boundaries as your ex, it seems you could pile up evidence against him pretty quickly...
Is there any chance you could have a lawyer come in and advise on this?
We also have written into the divorce agreement (and you could probably amend your custody agreement to say something similar) that we are not allowed to discuss our relationship, our divorce, or badmouth the other parent in front of the children. It's hard to enforce, but with someone as totally lacking boundaries as your ex, it seems you could pile up evidence against him pretty quickly...
Is there any chance you could have a lawyer come in and advise on this?
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
he's a A* parent isn't he?
luckily your children know that you aren't preventing them from ringing him (as do mine)
and you've set them straight on the electricity thing.
I feel your pain - mine told the kids as he gave ds the child support cheque (late) that it was the money he paid me so that I would allow him to see them. This was in front of me. I explained later that both mummy and daddy pay for the things they need because we are both their parents and love them, so I wasn't sure why daddy had said that.
he tells them other things, some they know from their own experience aren't true, others back-fire on him e.g. they don't feel safe to be with him if they are sick (after him ranting to them that he couldn't get in touch with me if an emergency occurred whilst they were with him - which he absolutely can, i just won't speak to him anymore).
this is really hard stuff to navigate, but I just try and hold onto the "truth will out"
yep - this is because in his head everything you do is all about him: you go out, it's to get at him, you don't answer the phone - it's to prevent him from talking to his kids, you don't want to buy his car - it's to punish him.
tough though this is, and heartbreaking that they have to learn, the kids will get all of this.
luckily your children know that you aren't preventing them from ringing him (as do mine)
and you've set them straight on the electricity thing.
I feel your pain - mine told the kids as he gave ds the child support cheque (late) that it was the money he paid me so that I would allow him to see them. This was in front of me. I explained later that both mummy and daddy pay for the things they need because we are both their parents and love them, so I wasn't sure why daddy had said that.
he tells them other things, some they know from their own experience aren't true, others back-fire on him e.g. they don't feel safe to be with him if they are sick (after him ranting to them that he couldn't get in touch with me if an emergency occurred whilst they were with him - which he absolutely can, i just won't speak to him anymore).
this is really hard stuff to navigate, but I just try and hold onto the "truth will out"
He also told them under no circumstances was I ever allowed to tell them they couldn't talk to him on the phone or see him. I have never kept them from talking to him or seeing him. But he assumes that every time he calls and nobody answers(usually 'cause we aren't there) that I am somehow chaining the kids to the wall so they won't have anything to do with him.
tough though this is, and heartbreaking that they have to learn, the kids will get all of this.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 326
You have a court order for CS. Only a judge can change it. You cannot agree behind the judge's back to change it.
If you agree outside the court to change it, it has to be written up as a stipulation agreement (or whatever it's called in your part of the US) and then taken to the judge to also sign.
If you and he agree behind the judge's back to lower it, and he doesn't take the judge the stipulation, the old amount keeps on going. He thinks he only has to pay less until bingo, CS enforcement suddenly demands $10K or he goes to jail, or loses his license or passport or tax refund.
All parents have to pay support, even unemployed parents. They have to pay based on minimum wage, even if they don't get it. It's called imputing income. If the judge believes they could work and make more but are choosing to be unemployed or underemployed to avoid child support, they can impute any amount they think is reasonable. My XAH quit his $80K job to work under the table for his GF. The judge imputed him with $70K, and based the CS off of that. After a couple of years, it was $60K+ in arrears, a federal felony. He went to jail, then got his act in order for 14 months (you can't drink in jail). He sloughed off again, but now that he's getting social security I just garnish 65% of that.
If you agree outside the court to change it, it has to be written up as a stipulation agreement (or whatever it's called in your part of the US) and then taken to the judge to also sign.
If you and he agree behind the judge's back to lower it, and he doesn't take the judge the stipulation, the old amount keeps on going. He thinks he only has to pay less until bingo, CS enforcement suddenly demands $10K or he goes to jail, or loses his license or passport or tax refund.
All parents have to pay support, even unemployed parents. They have to pay based on minimum wage, even if they don't get it. It's called imputing income. If the judge believes they could work and make more but are choosing to be unemployed or underemployed to avoid child support, they can impute any amount they think is reasonable. My XAH quit his $80K job to work under the table for his GF. The judge imputed him with $70K, and based the CS off of that. After a couple of years, it was $60K+ in arrears, a federal felony. He went to jail, then got his act in order for 14 months (you can't drink in jail). He sloughed off again, but now that he's getting social security I just garnish 65% of that.
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