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Old 06-18-2012, 03:10 PM
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As an alcoholic, I think it is what they think at the time. But they are under the negative influence of the alcohol. I do not think they would say or feel the same sober. I believe the alcohol makes the negativity worse. The situation more dramatic. It makes everything worse to me. I love being sober. The world is a hopeful and positive place when sober. I recall very well my loved one saying "you are just saying that because you are drunk". Truly I was. They didn't deserve it.
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Old 06-18-2012, 04:37 PM
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I blacked out a few times in my life...the last one was when I was 32 and at a friends ski chalet for an adults only weekend. We drank way too much - and for me that means a few mixed drinks, I am a cheap date, and I blacked out. My friends told me in the morning that I had showed everyone my "new" tattoo, rattled off some stupid jokes, laughed way too hard, and fell face down on the sleeper sofa, fully dressed. Someone took pity on me and took my boots off.

I wasn't mean, cruel, angry, or abusive. I also don't think I was in a black out period for long, but still... I was my same old goofy self being stupid.

So when my RAH would have black outs - and all of which he denied - and get totally hostile and nasty - I believed it was the real ugly inside rearing its head...uninhibited by the alcohol.

However, what I read here also makes sense. Especially Peter G's description. Maybe we do tend to personalize this kind of stuff too much.

Good for you Grizz for becoming indifferent to it all. Nothing else you can do, short of leaving.
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Old 06-18-2012, 04:47 PM
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XA's blackouts were usually about the same crap too.

Funny thing, all the ranting, raving, anger, and craziness he was going on about, were things he did and caused to himself. Lost his career, wrecked his truck. lost his license, medical bills ( from repeated falling down and having to go get stitches) etc.......

There were so many times i just wanted to scream "If you look in the mirror, you will see where the problem lies".

Towards the end, I would just listen to my ipod, (loud) smile and nod and do my thing, he would wear himself out, and pass out........ good times, .......not.

Anyway, I view it as a self loathing, and trying to make the rest of the people in their world feel like crap too.
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:51 AM
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I talked to her via skype (she is out of town for a couple of weeks) last night. She said the the reason for her blackout was because she was drinking a brand of wine she wasnt used to. Also if she wasnt sorry she wouldnt have said so. And that she hasn't had a blackout for a long time. Actually they are are on a fairly regular basis, I normally dont say anything because I am getting tired of the drama. WTH.
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:55 AM
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Is there any way to know if the A is blacked out? Any physical signs or indications?
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Old 06-19-2012, 06:03 AM
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Yeah Anvilhead, I know that it is BS and just a bunch of quacking. There is always a reason, other than she chose to drink. And yes I dream a lot of what life might be like. I am looking forward to these next days of no drama and quiet nights. Although....it is usually quiet around the house after 8:30 cause she is passed out. thanks for all your support


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Old 06-19-2012, 06:12 AM
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I thought a blackout was when you wake up and can't remember anything.. Not that you have no idea what's going on at the time? Am I wrong? I'm English to we don't really use that phrase here but Lundy Bancroft does in his book LOL.
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by grizz View Post
I talked to her via skype (she is out of town for a couple of weeks) last night. She said the the reason for her blackout was because she was drinking a brand of wine she wasnt used to. Also if she wasnt sorry she wouldnt have said so. And that she hasn't had a blackout for a long time. Actually they are are on a fairly regular basis, I normally dont say anything because I am getting tired of the drama. WTH.
Griz, this is some serious stuff. You know what is going on, it was all so hard for me to wrap my head aroud too, until I accepted the fact that my xabf was simply a mess. Alcohol was his life, I was just there to support his drinking.

The brand of wine???? I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

I hope you continue to move forward in your own recovery, it's the only way to get clarity on all of this.

love to you Katie
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:45 AM
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Has she demonstrated with her actions that she's working on this? I don't know how you feel about ultimatums, but, IMHO, I think sometimes we need a measurable demonstration of the commitment to change.

YOU need to decide whether or not this is worth putting up with.
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Old 06-19-2012, 08:27 AM
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Windmills, I'm English - and know the term well - Hi there!

Ex had black-outs a lot, and it wasn't strictly a case of waking up and not knowing what he had done the night before (although that also happened): I've seen him switch out of a black out, where he appeared to have most of his cognitive faculties intact (but was obviously drunk), but just lost all filed memories of that previous timeframe, like a wiped computor memory.

I've also seen him slip out of one straight into another, where he had no recollection of what he did/said in the preceeding half hour but could remember before that and what he had just said, and then 20 mins later he lost all recollection of the whole past hour: I won't say he was exactly mastermind at this point, but he was walking, talking, fairly lucid....

If the words and behaviour are unnaceptable, and she continues to make clear decisions that make those consequences (her words and behaviour) more likely - I think you have the answer you need, whether she really believes the stuff she says at that point or not is sort of irrelevant, if she has stuff she needs to get off her chest there are far less destructive ways of getting it out than drinking into a black-out......
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Old 06-19-2012, 10:11 AM
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"Has she demonstrated with her actions that she's working on this? I don't know how you feel about ultimatums, but, IMHO, I think sometimes we need a measurable demonstration of the commitment to change."

Nope...she isnt working on it at all, unless you calling her saying " I am cutting back a bit tonight because last night (the blackout episode) was too
much. She is so far in denial she wouldnt recognize reality if it smacked her.
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by grizz View Post

She is so far in denial she wouldnt recognize reality if it smacked her.
That pretty well sums it up. I think that 2 separate people live here; my wife and the alcoholic and neither of them know the existance of the other.

In my experience, she doesn't remember what she said regardless of sober or not. It's all just a variation of the same theme. I have better conversations with a 2 year old who at least will remember what they told me.

Sorry for being negative. Some nights are worse than others. I understand what you're experiencing and I hope you find peace.
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by grizz View Post
Nope...she isnt working on it at all, unless you calling her saying " I am cutting back a bit tonight because last night (the blackout episode) was too
much. She is so far in denial she wouldnt recognize reality if it smacked her.
My AW must be working the same program. The only problem she has with drinking is the blackouts. There's no problem with the rest of it! She's down to about 1-2 a week. Sorry you gotta go through this sh!* Grizz. I'm right there with ya though.
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:59 AM
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Spes & Oh Boy, thanks my friends. It is nice to know that I am not alone, even though there are variations. What is maddening like today. Got off the phone with her and our conversation was great. She is out of town right now and she misses me and the way we hang out. Problem is her version of hanging out and mine are different. The reality of it is I am by myself after 8:30 because she is usually passed out. With her being gone for a bit, I am by myself but have the peace.
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:08 PM
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If I am walking through the brush and a tree limb snaps back and smacks me it HURTS. The tree is just being a tree but I've still got a mark. I'll either find a gentler path or come out battered.

I don't know if your aw means it or not but either way you've still got a mark. You stay on this path and you'll get more. Like that tree, your aw is just being who she is right now. Your kind words, harsh words, ultimatums, pleas, even your detachment will not change that anymore they it would change the tree.

And like the tree that used to be a soft little sapling, the fact that your aw used to be a gentle loving wife doesn't change who she is today. The fact that a tree can at times provide soft shade and a gentle breeze doesn't mean it won't continue to snap you and leave a mark. Just because an alcoholic, at times, can be gentle and loving, doesn't mean they won't still leave a mark. It is the same tree, the same person.

You'll get snapped again and again if you stay on that path. This you know. As a tree grows so does its capacity to do damage. Just like alcoholism.

Some days alcoholism just makes me soooo sad and today is one of those days. Many gentle thoughts to everyone here at SR trying to walk this path.
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:14 PM
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Hey Grizz,
I know what you mean about peace after 8:30 cause she's passed out or whatever. I felt the same way.
For me, that's not peace. That's being thankful you still have an ear after getting punched in the face by Mike Tyson.

Don't get me wrong man. I understand what you're saying and I believe it's good to get a breath of air for yourself.
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:19 PM
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Thank you Thumper,
your thoughts are so true. I am sorry that you are having a hard patch too. I truelly respect what you say. As those tree branch wacks continue its our own defense mechanisms that are concerning. I am finding myself not doing certain things so I either wont have to explain myself or might have a confrontation.
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:37 PM
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Hey Grizz,

RA here. I can tell you one thing. There really is no such a thing as a blackout, yes, of course the next day, you may not remember it, but while you are in the moment and doing, and saying, what you are, you are aware of it. I never did the cutting someone else apart thing. My ex did this to me all the time. And of course he didn't remember it the next day, but he was fully aware of every word he said to me while he was saying it.

Whether he meant it or not, he always says he didn't, whether I care of not, I don't. It still hurt.

But knowing how I felt at those times, let me tell you, I really wanted to "rip him a new one". I do know that he did this because of his own self hatred, self loathing, etc....
And when I listened to the words that he was saying, I realized he was talking about himself, and projecting things onto me.

Can't really say if she meant any of it, but whether she did or didn't, she has a lot of anger in her. No one tries to cut another person down, if they are happy with themselves. It's not possible. They do it to bring someone down, lower than they feel.
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:47 PM
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Thanks Amy,
I guess I never thought of it this way, that they are aware of what they are saying at the time of saying it. She thinks that everyone is against her, trying to hurt her emotionally and I am the point of the knife. This last episode she for the first time brought the kids into it saying some things about them. They are all adults but it amazes me that people in her life that love her so much are the target of her rants. They have all told me that they see their mom for what she is. I havent told them all the nasty details, but I am thinking they will see them for themselves as this progresses.
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Old 06-19-2012, 02:32 PM
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I go back & forth on whether my AW knows what she is doing in a blackout. I've seen her do some things that just make no sense at all. I've seen her scratch at the walls trying to do something, when I ask her what she is doing she looks at me & tells me something that is almost believable but make NO sense. Other times she'll carry on like she only buzzed, have conversations, drunken conversations, but staying in the spirit of it. Sometimes she'll just make things up as she goes along, accusing, lying & switching arguments midstream. I think sometimes she uses them as an excuse so she won't have to own up to what she said/did. But I KNOW there are a lot of times where it is very real.

It is very tough to deal with on a regular basis, that tree branch really frickin hurts after a while! Her targets are ALWAYS people that she cares about. Seems to be someone different every time, then she'll drunk call/text & start a big shitstorm. Ahh, happy memories! Now I don't get involved, it's her mess, let her deal with it!
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