Anon12

How do you let the A know you forgive them, that they are ill and need help without letting them off the hook and letting them believe their behaviour was ok?

Ive read in a few places that being angry or shouting at them after drinking doesn't work so I didn't this morning, I just expressed my sadness and that id been worried without confrontation. Does that get read as being ok?

Also, I said in a post yesterday I didn't feel guilt and I didn't. Til today. Since I told my ABF to move out his drinking has worsened visibly. This morning/last night being the scariest in terms of what he is prepared to risk. I know I didn't cause it but it seems in direct correlation to my decision. Hard not to feel the link.

SoloMio

Why say anything? You have told your ABF what you are not accepting, you told him to move out. Why have any more conversation about it?

Forgiveness is not "special dispensation" like from the Pope. It's not something you grant to the other person. Forgiveness is FOR YOU.

I think the definition in Wikipedia is pretty simple: Forgiveness is the renunciation or cessation of resentment, indignation or anger as a result of a perceived offense, disagreement, or mistake, or ceasing to demand punishment or restitution.

You are letting go of those negative feelings--you're not letting him off the hook. You're only letting him off the hook if you back down from your own boundaries.

Anon12

Thanks - that's my catholic upbringing sneaking in. That puts it into perspective. Think I'm still trying to affect the outcome even though I should know better...

m1k3

There is a Buddhist saying that says: Anger is like holding a hot coal waiting for a chance to throw it at someone.

Forgiveness is about putting down the coal and stop burning yourself. Doesn't have a darn thing to do with them and they sure as heck don't get off the hook.

Your friend,

Anon12

I'm so tired of it. I got home and my heart sank to see the car there because it meant he hadn't gone to sign the lease. Postponed again, truth or lie. Who knows. It took me half an hour to extricate myself to go to counsellor as he wanted to tell me 20 times how he thought I was an amazing person but yo 'forget him'. I am exhausted from trying to make him feel better and told him.

I'm dreading I will get back and he will have drunk. I have a friend's I can go to - she is away but at least I will get some space from this.

FireSprite

This is something that I struggle with a lot & this saying really puts it into perspective in a way I hadn't considered. Thank you for sharing.

NYCDoglvr

Why forgive him? People pleasing an alcoholic frequently backfires. Perhaps it's better to say that while You find abhorrant his drinking he has a right to do it. At the same time you have a right to dislike it and separate yourself from it.

I don't believe one must be angry and confrontational to get the message across. When we point the finger at someone else it makes them defensive and leads to a point. Much more effective is talking about how you feel and need to do about it. It isn't pressing someone who resistant to change, it's non confrontational so you're much lore likely to be heard out.

And it IS about us. We are shifting our obsession about the other person and his/her actions or words to ourselves. We're putting up boundaries. An example

"I acknowledge you statement that you do not intend to stop drinking, get help for your alcoholism. I am insisting that you never drink in our home or show up drunk. This is my home as well as yours. What you do outside the home is your business, not mind. This is my attempt to continue residing with you in the home." This is one way of handling it.

you may wish to come up with a list if things you simply can't tolerate and do something similar.

We have rights to our wants and needs and to express them.
You don't have to explain yourself and get into an argument. "No is a complete sentence"
Regardless of what your spouse does you have a perfect right to start recovery and change. It's none of his business and should not be presented as topic for discussion.

lizatola

NYCDoglover, do you give an ultimatum at that point? You said above that, "I am insisting that you never drink in our home....etc" but what do you say after that? Do you follow it up with, "IF you do, then I will ask you to leave our home" or something along those lines. I guess I'm looking for suggestions on setting a boundary, not just stating that I don't want to live with active drinking anymore.

FYI: sorry if I hijacked this thread, LOL! Hope the question was valid.

LaTeeDa

It's a very valid question. The most important aspect of setting boundaries is figuring out what you will do to enforce them. If you aren't willing to enforce a boundary, it's nothing more than a threat. In my way of thinking, an ultimatum is an attempt to control the other person, to "get them back in line." That doesn't work either, or if it does, it's only temporary and leads to mutual resentment. So, whatever you decide is a boundary, must have enforceable consequences that are completely in your control. "Asking him to leave" may not be the best consequence because what if he doesn't? Filing for divorce and petitioning the court for use of the residence doesn't depend on him doing anything, for example. Or, leaving the house with the children, which also doesn't depend on him doing anything. There are many options for boundaries and enforcement of them. You must decide what works for you.

Another example, I once set a boundary of no loud music after 10pm. (My AH would stay up late drinking and blasting the stereo.) But, I had to rethink that boundary because the only way I could come up with to enforce it was to wake the kids up and take them somewhere else in the middle of the night, which I was not willing to do.

L

Anon12

Problem is I set that boundary, used almost the same words and he is meant yo be moving out this weekend. But he drank last night and came home and think he had either drunk more or was fuzzy from previous night's excesses and the pity was too much.

I had a good session with my counsellor who talked through my options if he continues to drink and doesn't move out. I got back and he kept wanting to hold my hand, say sorry for letting me down etc etc. I packed a bag and said I was going to a friend's til fri night so I can focus on work. I am so scared he will drink more and lose his job and not sign lease and I will be stuck with him. I have a plan b to talk to my landlord next week (he is away) but I feel so panicky and sad. Why does it hurt so much? I wish I didn't care.

Thumper

Anon, I know these days before he moves are very very difficult to get through.

I found it helped to be very basic. There was a relationship. The relationship has come to an end. You handle it your way. He handles it his way.

You did not cause his drinking.
You can not control his drinking.
You can not cure his drinking.

He is doing what alcoholics do in any and all situations. He drinks.

Try to stay away from home as much as you can in these next few days before he leaves. Try not to awfulize. He will drink, stay out late, feel sorry for himself, maybe have a big angry tantrum, or lay on major guilt trips in the next few days. You don't need to be blind sided or distraught over that. Expect it. He's a big boy and can sleep at a friends or in his car or on a bar stool. He isn't going to die, maybe have a sore back and hangover. He is choosing how to handle a very very common life experience. The end of a dating relationship. No guilt for you!!! You are not pouring beer down his throat or locking him out of the house.

This is not the time to be friendly with him or have any kind of discussions. You don't have to reason or explain or guide him. He's a grown man. Give him respect and space to move out. It is a very weird timem, this limbo between the end and the moving out. We don't always need to be up in each others face/buisness during difficult and awkward times - alcoholism or not.

ETA: We cross posted. Deep Breath. Do not panic. You are NOT STUCK. I know it can feel that way and I had a husband that would not leave too. You are never stuck, there is always a plan B. You can and will be free of this chaos no matter what he does or does not do. You are NOT at his mercy with this. Try to give yourself some space if you can. A respite will give you renewed energy to take action. That panic feeling can really wipe us out emotionally and mentally.

JenT1968

yeah, I used to gawp in astonishment when people told me this was their boundary and it had worked.....

the best boundaries I have found with ExAH are those that don't depend on his actions whatsoever, and I then don't even have to tell him, I tell myself "if he speaks to me like that, I'll put him straight to answerphone and won't answer his emails until he is civil again", it's not about controlling him it's about protecting me (we are way beyond any hope of having a rational conversation where a compromise could be reached, like in a normal relationship, and believe me I tried for years).

that doesn't really help in your situation though, talking to your counsellor and the plan to get in touch with the landlord on his return however is absolutely on the mark.

Can I suggest re your worries: drink-job-lease, and given that it is so difficult to not worry about this (when people tell me to not worry "it might never happen" I get worse! however right they are that it doesn't change anything, and just ruins my experience of the present).

if the techniques people have outlined before aren't helpful, another one is simply to assume that he is not going to move out under his own volition, and go forward from now as if that is the case: stay somewhere else until the landlord comes back (because you can't do anything constructive until then), perhaps get some legal advice on the lease, don't tell him what you are doing, block him from your phone/email/whatever, don't contact him, check up on the flat, nothing, until the landlord is back make an appointment with him, then just before the appointment go see if he has signed the lease and gone. if yes, great, if not, you alreay are prepared for that and half-way through whatever plan you come up with.

That way you aren't left worried about what will happen, you are already on the path to getting it sorted out either way.

it's a horrible time ((hugs)).