how can anyone stay with an A or addict!?
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how can anyone stay with an A or addict!?
After reading stories here about the traumatic experiences of the loved ones impacted by the disease and/or researching it elsewhere? It really is a question of interest and not a judgement from me because i would really like to know. For me my 4yr "relationship" w my XABF was a hellish hell hole but i was not educated on alcohol and its effects on everyone involved with the A so i stuck around because stupidly i DID think it was something that could be loved away or screamed out of my X. Fast forward to a couple months ago when i was FINALLY tired of being used and abused so i ended it and began my process of grieving, moving on and gaining understanding. I googled everything about alcohol and found SR which clarified everything and was basically my story with names and dates changed. But before i wound up here i KNEW i was finished with my X. This website just solidified that i needed to keep it movin and avoid reboarding the crazy train at all costs. So thats why i just had to ask: why with all the knowledge presented here or anywhere for that matter, do people CHOOSE to still stay with the A or addict knowing what will most likely happen? Theres not enough loving detachment in the world to make me put up with that kind of misery again!
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New York
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I think in a lot of the cases here, the A is recovering and has been for a long time, or they had many, many years before the A became addicted. The non-A might also be recovering him/herself. Any combination of this plus kids, and I think a lot of people choose to stay.
There are also other circumstances where the non-A just didn't care about him/herself enough to get themselves out of danger, got emotionally involved and then manipulated to stay when things got really bad. That was my case. I was always destructive. I had an abusive A dad, moved out young and was on a collision course for much of my adult life - I guess I was lively, though. Travelling around like a vagabond myself, I met my husband. We lived like rock stars 'til it wasn't fun anymore. I started to realize that the fights we were having weren't normal and that they were cyclic, involving alcohol, or drugs or both. I was never much of a user, but noticing that, I dried up completely. Since I was already married, I started to do a lot of the codie stuff you read about on this board. It took me years to get the strength not only to separate from him, but to admit that I didn't care much about myself and it had only gotten worse with him. I still have my moments of despondency (I call them the "Why Bothers?") but the steps really help, my meditation group (outside of al-anon) helps a lot more, and al-anon with people who've lived through the same things I have helps, too.
So all in all, for me, it took me 3 years to separate from my husband and it's now been a year since I left him and - as you can see here - I still have a lot of fall out. For some people it takes longer and some less (in which case, Jealous!). And the people you read about here, sometimes you just don't know where they are in their recovery. They might not even know.
There are also other circumstances where the non-A just didn't care about him/herself enough to get themselves out of danger, got emotionally involved and then manipulated to stay when things got really bad. That was my case. I was always destructive. I had an abusive A dad, moved out young and was on a collision course for much of my adult life - I guess I was lively, though. Travelling around like a vagabond myself, I met my husband. We lived like rock stars 'til it wasn't fun anymore. I started to realize that the fights we were having weren't normal and that they were cyclic, involving alcohol, or drugs or both. I was never much of a user, but noticing that, I dried up completely. Since I was already married, I started to do a lot of the codie stuff you read about on this board. It took me years to get the strength not only to separate from him, but to admit that I didn't care much about myself and it had only gotten worse with him. I still have my moments of despondency (I call them the "Why Bothers?") but the steps really help, my meditation group (outside of al-anon) helps a lot more, and al-anon with people who've lived through the same things I have helps, too.
So all in all, for me, it took me 3 years to separate from my husband and it's now been a year since I left him and - as you can see here - I still have a lot of fall out. For some people it takes longer and some less (in which case, Jealous!). And the people you read about here, sometimes you just don't know where they are in their recovery. They might not even know.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
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Dear looking forward I read your response to why do people stay withe a and substance abusers so long. I could relate to your story in so many ways when I met my husband and we partied together and we didn't neccesarrily care what other people thought. We were or at least seemed to me at the time madly in love. Just as you stated it was soon no longer a party it wasn't fun anymore and I really did nt drink or do much of anything I was trying to be on somewhat same page. The people we were with and my husband always lived by all or nothing and took things to a whole different level. That would always lead to fights and they weren't your normal married couple fights. And it was the cycle just as you mentioned. I could feel the anxiety before they even happened in my body because I knew they were just around the corner. When we were good we were great and when we were bad we were horrible. I'm trying to let go now it's hard both in my heart and just the fact that I have been so co dependent for so so long. I hope I will be able to make it on my own.
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Join Date: May 2012
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It's not an easy question to answer. In my case, I have been with my husband since 1996 (married since 2003) and his drinking problem reared it's ugly head within the last 2 years. It took me a long time to figure out that he was an alcoholic - I wouldn't admit it to myself. And it took almost a year for him to really realize what that means. I've stopped hoping for miracles and stopped believing that things will magically get better when we keep doing the same thing over & over, and I've changed my attitude and actions. As much as I can be a jaded person, I've also got this sick sense of hope for humanity and the good & strength in people. So I'm hopeful, and I do see some changes lately that are encouraging, but I am being cautious. It's that hope that keeps me going on the day to day, and it's resources like the kind folks on this forum that keep me in check and keep me sane(ish) and remind me that I need to have my shiznit together and a plan in case I need an exit strategy.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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Because we are hardwired to stay ... every part of our being is designed to hold us together to our mate for better or worse.
We have the "love" which is scientifically lots of brain chemicals and hormones giving us "feelings" that are very intense and highly emotional. The fact that most of all believe with all of our A will be destroyed and even very possibly die if we leave them keeps us tethered. Many have children who will suffer most with the trauma of a divorce and changes that it will bring in already troubled family dynamics. Many of us have had huge challenges with joint businesses, assets and have financial problems that will get much worse with a seperation. Many of us have been in relationships with A's who get nasty and even violent if you even start talking about seperation or divorce. We have mutual friends, his or her families which we are close too and often pastors and church family that will impact how we feel about ripping our lives apart that may or may not include them in the future.
Change... even good change is hard. The familiar is comfortable and change brings the unknown.
While to the naive outsider it LOOKS so easy to walk out the door the reality is that it is hard to shake an alcoholic. And if you have kids you never really completely shake them... marriage can be temporary but divorce with kids is forever.
Hope that helps... I finally shut the door on my A. We didn't have kids and that made it easier for me but he was like a tick on a greyhound.... the faster I would run the more he would dig in and try to drain me dry.
We have the "love" which is scientifically lots of brain chemicals and hormones giving us "feelings" that are very intense and highly emotional. The fact that most of all believe with all of our A will be destroyed and even very possibly die if we leave them keeps us tethered. Many have children who will suffer most with the trauma of a divorce and changes that it will bring in already troubled family dynamics. Many of us have had huge challenges with joint businesses, assets and have financial problems that will get much worse with a seperation. Many of us have been in relationships with A's who get nasty and even violent if you even start talking about seperation or divorce. We have mutual friends, his or her families which we are close too and often pastors and church family that will impact how we feel about ripping our lives apart that may or may not include them in the future.
Change... even good change is hard. The familiar is comfortable and change brings the unknown.
While to the naive outsider it LOOKS so easy to walk out the door the reality is that it is hard to shake an alcoholic. And if you have kids you never really completely shake them... marriage can be temporary but divorce with kids is forever.
Hope that helps... I finally shut the door on my A. We didn't have kids and that made it easier for me but he was like a tick on a greyhound.... the faster I would run the more he would dig in and try to drain me dry.
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Join Date: Jul 2011
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In my case, I didn't know anything about addiction so when I realized AX was an addict, I naively thought that rehab and AA and love and support would fix it all. Also, the AX was my college BF so I thought he was the same guy I knew 20 years ago and had no idea what I was getting into. I stayed for over two years because I was eventually groomed by the situation into blaming myself and buying the lies. But my healthy side started to assert itself without any effort from me, and then I just couldn't take it anymore and ended it. I miss him but I'm glad it's over. I hope he gets help.
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I honestly thought I was the problem the majority of the time. It took me a long time to realize that there was someone else that had his baggage in the relationship too.
For me I felt this way even with a great therapist, the option of Al-anon etc.
It took me five plus years to come to understand that I alone could not fix this with more support than four people have. Not everyone is that lucky.
For me I felt this way even with a great therapist, the option of Al-anon etc.
It took me five plus years to come to understand that I alone could not fix this with more support than four people have. Not everyone is that lucky.
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Join Date: Mar 2010
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It isn't just addicted spouses that raise this question. I ask the same of my friend who stays married to a man who--though he does not drink--cheats on her repeatedly and remorselessly (has told her that he is to "be commended" for cheating rather than leaving her) and has been diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder and bipolar disorder (he is currently in the hospital after refusing to take his medication and relapsing).
Why does anyone stay in a relationship this awful? I have no answer.
Why does anyone stay in a relationship this awful? I have no answer.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Dear WorkInProgress8,
What a Great Question. I think it basically comes down to some aspect of the FOG.
F---fear. O---obligation G---guilt. I think I read this somewhere--but can't remember.
I think it is pretty accurate, though.
I would love to hear what other posters think of this also.
Thanks for your good question.
Dandylion
What a Great Question. I think it basically comes down to some aspect of the FOG.
F---fear. O---obligation G---guilt. I think I read this somewhere--but can't remember.
I think it is pretty accurate, though.
I would love to hear what other posters think of this also.
Thanks for your good question.
Dandylion
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: USA
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I think if we, who stayed, put as much energy into any other endeavor as we do into our relationships with our A we could probably change the world. Thomas Edison worked for years believing in his invention--just as some of us work for years believing that our A will see the light.
I've stayed for 36 years. 5 of those years my AH was sober. Why did I stay?
If I could rewind the clock with what I know now, I would be respectful of my own needs. I can see now that I had absolutely NO regard for myself. For instance: He was two hours late for our first date. I would like to believe that he never would get past the door if I could replay that moment when he showed up after making me wait for two hours.
I'm finally coming to terms with self-respect, praise the Lord. But "loving" others more than me for decades was the main reason I've traveled this road.
I've stayed for 36 years. 5 of those years my AH was sober. Why did I stay?
- High emotional pain threshold thanks to a chaotic young life
- Fear of confrontation and change
- He was such a nice guy and great dad when sober
- I thought hope was a friend but it was really an enemy
- Just when I had it and was going to leave, he got sober
- Sober life with him was fantastic
- When he relapsed I thought it would be temporary
- "Temporary" turned into 8 years
- I'm much better able to attend to my own stuff and not get hooked in (most of the time)
If I could rewind the clock with what I know now, I would be respectful of my own needs. I can see now that I had absolutely NO regard for myself. For instance: He was two hours late for our first date. I would like to believe that he never would get past the door if I could replay that moment when he showed up after making me wait for two hours.
I'm finally coming to terms with self-respect, praise the Lord. But "loving" others more than me for decades was the main reason I've traveled this road.
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
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I am still married to my AW. We separated a year ago and are now in the process of getting a divorce. We were married and together for 36 years
As I work through my recovery I have learned several things that explain a lot.
1. I was raised in an alcoholic home, so much of it simply seemed normal to me.
2. For the first 15 years things weren't that bad. She was functional, loving, a good partner and my best friend.
3. Things changed slowly, it wasn't like she did an 180 in a week or so. The downhill slide took about 5 years.
4. I was committed to the relationship. She was my wife and I would not abandon her.
5. I am a former Marine, no retreat, no surrender, death before dishonor and all that.
6. I really thought the girl I married was still in there somewhere and waiting for me to save her.
7. The person who puts the most into a relationship has the most to lose.
8. I could not accept it was over until the pain of staying was greater than the pain of leaving.
9. She fooled me after one of her rehabs when she switched from booze to Ambien. It wasn't as obvious and she did a better job of hiding it for over 3 years. Till one vacation she decided to drink again. 6 months later I left.
And that's how I stayed so long.
Your friend,
As I work through my recovery I have learned several things that explain a lot.
1. I was raised in an alcoholic home, so much of it simply seemed normal to me.
2. For the first 15 years things weren't that bad. She was functional, loving, a good partner and my best friend.
3. Things changed slowly, it wasn't like she did an 180 in a week or so. The downhill slide took about 5 years.
4. I was committed to the relationship. She was my wife and I would not abandon her.
5. I am a former Marine, no retreat, no surrender, death before dishonor and all that.
6. I really thought the girl I married was still in there somewhere and waiting for me to save her.
7. The person who puts the most into a relationship has the most to lose.
8. I could not accept it was over until the pain of staying was greater than the pain of leaving.
9. She fooled me after one of her rehabs when she switched from booze to Ambien. It wasn't as obvious and she did a better job of hiding it for over 3 years. Till one vacation she decided to drink again. 6 months later I left.
And that's how I stayed so long.
Your friend,
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
For me, it was our son.
Prior to our son, who is 7 1/2, I thought it was his college partying phase, that he would grow up.
When I got pregnant I made the big mistake of thinking that he would grow up and into fatherhood, FOR fatherhood...but, it appeared that it got worse after son was born, the pressure and all, which fell to me exclusively.
I think it is also fair to say that active addicts and even those in recovery who are not actively working on recovering...if that makes any sense, are very manipulative. They see early on that we want them to be well, and after a while they see that we want to believe in the dream of recovery, and so, when they need something, or want something, or see their enabler smartening up, they turn on the charm, the lies, the promises.
It takes a long time, for some of us, to realize the game to it all. SOme of us were raised in the similar environment, and so, it seems quite normal, almost conditioned.
Thats all I got.
Prior to our son, who is 7 1/2, I thought it was his college partying phase, that he would grow up.
When I got pregnant I made the big mistake of thinking that he would grow up and into fatherhood, FOR fatherhood...but, it appeared that it got worse after son was born, the pressure and all, which fell to me exclusively.
I think it is also fair to say that active addicts and even those in recovery who are not actively working on recovering...if that makes any sense, are very manipulative. They see early on that we want them to be well, and after a while they see that we want to believe in the dream of recovery, and so, when they need something, or want something, or see their enabler smartening up, they turn on the charm, the lies, the promises.
It takes a long time, for some of us, to realize the game to it all. SOme of us were raised in the similar environment, and so, it seems quite normal, almost conditioned.
Thats all I got.
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Ireland
Posts: 202
Hi WIP
Really great thread. I suppose for everyone the “reasons” are different, as we can see from the replies so far. Ultimately, the overall answer is that people just aren’t ready to go. Reading some stories on here I find it mind blowing that some of us have stayed as long as we have – particularly people in scarier situations than me.
Someone helped me to see recently that I have normalised the abnormal life that I have. It happened slowly, over a long period of time, so I think I just “adapted” as things changed and progressed. I have known for at least 18 months that my marriage is over, and that even if AH was to find recovery now I would have zero interest in being with him. And yet, we still live under the same roof. Crazy, huh? These are some of the reasons I have realised recently:
Afraid of what will happen to AH when I leave – God knows why I care, but for some messed up reason I do
Overwhelmed at the effort involved in leaving – i.e. finding somewhere to leave, changing bills into his name, packing up years worth of stuff (more that I can’t think of right now)
Overwhelmed at the thoughts of what leaving will kick off – all the legal/financial stuff
Knowing that finally the dreams I had are done, gone, over once I walk out that door
Thankfully, I am at a point where I am ready to move on. I have a little bit of work to do first (making sure I don’t leave myself exposed financially/legally), but other than that, the excitement is building as I truly feel like I’m almost there! I hope everyone on here eventually finds the strength to accept that their lives can be so much better and can feel the excitement that is kicking in for me!
Adventure
Really great thread. I suppose for everyone the “reasons” are different, as we can see from the replies so far. Ultimately, the overall answer is that people just aren’t ready to go. Reading some stories on here I find it mind blowing that some of us have stayed as long as we have – particularly people in scarier situations than me.
Someone helped me to see recently that I have normalised the abnormal life that I have. It happened slowly, over a long period of time, so I think I just “adapted” as things changed and progressed. I have known for at least 18 months that my marriage is over, and that even if AH was to find recovery now I would have zero interest in being with him. And yet, we still live under the same roof. Crazy, huh? These are some of the reasons I have realised recently:
Afraid of what will happen to AH when I leave – God knows why I care, but for some messed up reason I do
Overwhelmed at the effort involved in leaving – i.e. finding somewhere to leave, changing bills into his name, packing up years worth of stuff (more that I can’t think of right now)
Overwhelmed at the thoughts of what leaving will kick off – all the legal/financial stuff
Knowing that finally the dreams I had are done, gone, over once I walk out that door
Thankfully, I am at a point where I am ready to move on. I have a little bit of work to do first (making sure I don’t leave myself exposed financially/legally), but other than that, the excitement is building as I truly feel like I’m almost there! I hope everyone on here eventually finds the strength to accept that their lives can be so much better and can feel the excitement that is kicking in for me!
Adventure
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Ireland
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Originally Posted by Buffalo66 
I think it is also fair to say that active addicts and even those in recovery who are not actively working on recovering...if that makes any sense, are very manipulative. They see early on that we want them to be well, and after a while they see that we want to believe in the dream of recovery, and so, when they need something, or want something, or see their enabler smartening up, they turn on the charm, the lies, the promises.
I feel so stoopid!!!!
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,349
Originally Posted by onlythetruth
It isn't just addicted spouses that raise this question. I ask the same of my friend who stays married to a man who--though he does not drink--cheats on her repeatedly and remorselessly (has told her that he is to "be commended" for cheating rather than leaving her) and has been diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder and bipolar disorder (he is currently in the hospital after refusing to take his medication and relapsing).
Why does anyone stay in a relationship this awful? I have no answer.
Why does anyone stay in a relationship this awful? I have no answer.
I also have another friend who seems to have a good life, raising her kids in a positive Christian environment but her husband is a real jerk. One day she called me and told me that her husband hadn't spoken to her or her 14 year old daughter for 19 days. He slept on the couch and shut them both out just because the 14 year old changed her hairstyle and the way she looked at church service. He punishes the family emotionally. She used to call me and ask if she could hide purchases at my house for fear of his reaction to her minor spending on the children. It was crazy, but to him it was all in the name of ruling his family in the name of the Lord. Can this be healthy too? Will their children have scars from helping mommy hide the purchases she made, will they find men who rule with an iron fist?
When I think about it, I can see that there are so many issues that can mess up a marriage and/or a childhood: depression/bipolar, substance abuse of any kind, personality disorders, infidelity, other mental health conditions like ADHD and OCD, spiritual issues and abuse(one spouse is a Christian or Buddhist and the other has no belief system), even political viewpoints can create problems in a marriage.
I'm sure there are so many more! So, the question remains: why do WE codies stay? Because the pain of staying is still not greater than the pain of leaving. When the pain gets bad enough, that's when we consider leaving but for many it can be a process of years. We didn't get into this position overnight so change can take time. Not always, but for many of us who have been married for long periods of time and have children, it can be.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
I thought he was different. He got sober, went to AA, then I thought things would be different.
It took me a long time to realize just because I think it, doesn't make it true.
He had a drinking problem. I had a thinking problem. Or should I call it "wishful thinking"?
It took me a long time to realize just because I think it, doesn't make it true.
He had a drinking problem. I had a thinking problem. Or should I call it "wishful thinking"?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: FL
Posts: 76
For me, like many others, the answer is complicated.
My husband is currently in recovery. There were many years prior to hitting rock bottom that there was no alcohol abuse in our relationship, and in fact, his drinking didn't get out of control or heavy until my first pregnancy three years ago.
I've stayed so far because he went through detox, treatment, and is working on his recovery. Without that, while I can't definitively say 100% what I would do, even prior to his hitting rock bottom, I had found this site, been to a therapist, spoken with people I know who are in recovery, and was detaching. The complication for me is that it was difficult to know what the courts would do for custody since he was an alcoholic, and my child was too young to speak and let me know if he was drunk and putting her in dangerous situations. In addition, my MIL is an active alcoholic, my FIL is a head in the sane enabler, and my husband probably would have lived with them...which wouldn't have been a better situation for my child (now children).
My husband is currently in recovery. There were many years prior to hitting rock bottom that there was no alcohol abuse in our relationship, and in fact, his drinking didn't get out of control or heavy until my first pregnancy three years ago.
I've stayed so far because he went through detox, treatment, and is working on his recovery. Without that, while I can't definitively say 100% what I would do, even prior to his hitting rock bottom, I had found this site, been to a therapist, spoken with people I know who are in recovery, and was detaching. The complication for me is that it was difficult to know what the courts would do for custody since he was an alcoholic, and my child was too young to speak and let me know if he was drunk and putting her in dangerous situations. In addition, my MIL is an active alcoholic, my FIL is a head in the sane enabler, and my husband probably would have lived with them...which wouldn't have been a better situation for my child (now children).
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: FL
Posts: 76
Originally Posted by Tuffgirl
I thought he was different. He got sober, went to AA, then I thought things would be different.
It took me a long time to realize just because I think it, doesn't make it true.
He had a drinking problem. I had a thinking problem. Or should I call it "wishful thinking"?
It took me a long time to realize just because I think it, doesn't make it true.
He had a drinking problem. I had a thinking problem. Or should I call it "wishful thinking"?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
I was raised by a codependent mother and an alcoholic father. Both my parents had alcoholic and codependent parents, probably their parents as well. It was all I ever knew. The only role models I had. In my world, you got married, had kids, and stayed together no matter what.
It was only after discovering this site, finding a very smart therapist, and reading dozens of books that I learned how screwed up my beliefs and perceptions were. Difficult is too mild a word to describe relearning everything you thought you knew about life. It's been quite a journey, but I think sometimes the most painful lessons lead to the biggest rewards.
L
It was only after discovering this site, finding a very smart therapist, and reading dozens of books that I learned how screwed up my beliefs and perceptions were. Difficult is too mild a word to describe relearning everything you thought you knew about life. It's been quite a journey, but I think sometimes the most painful lessons lead to the biggest rewards.
L
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