fedup3

I think we should remember that alcoholism a family disease as well and there is need for recovery not only for the alcoholic.

gerryP

Well it reads like you have put alot of thinking into this.

It's not fun being single,
The men in the dating pool are fat and or have other issues.
I'm 40
I wanted my children to have a father they could respect (ain't gonna happen.)
His parents are your financial ticket when anything goes wrong.
You want to keep on the good side of the in-laws because they help take care of the kids.
You are attracted to your husband, he's your best friend, is faithful (that you know of, or so far).

Wasn't your question about how his alcoholism would affect your children? You got all good and accurate answers to your question and you have provided a laundry list as to why you will stay with him, regardless of how his alcoholism will affect them.

LaTeeDa

How my father's alcoholism affected me:

I grew up thinking I was a burden.
I grew up fearing I was less than others.
I learned that love had to be earned, it wasn't freely given.
I sought out approval from men.
I had no self-worth if there was no man in my life.
I focused so hard on what others thought of me, I never knew what I thought of me.
I married an alcoholic.
I stayed married to him for 20 years because to divorce would mean I was worthless.
I had two children with him.
My children grew up thinking they were a burden.
They fear they are less than others.
They feel the need to earn love.
They seek approval from others, even to their own detriment.

And on it goes. You must ask yourself if the marriage and family life you have is the same marriage and family life you want for your children when they are grown. You and your husband are their role models. They will likely grow up and repeat what they are learning now. Is that what you want for them?

L

PrettyViolets

My parents live in Oklahoma. I live in Washington. My mother almost died at the end of November. She had fluid in her lungs. It was reallly hard for my side of the family--this was the first time she had been in the hospital. I did visit my mother in the hospital in December --it really brought tears to my eyes when I showed up to the ICU and saw my mother in her room. I really wanted my mother to be there when I had my 2nd child. She finally got out of ICU to a regular hospital unit and then to rehab in December. My mother finally agreed to a surgery in January. And she was then in rehab until the middle of February. My father had to set Medicare for my mother. And it cost them $16,000 after the Medicare paid out on her hospital bill. They had questioned if my mother had dementia. My grandfather on my mother's side died of Alzheimer's. My mother is doing good now. My father is retired and lives mainly at his lake home playing golf --he also works at the local Walmart. My mother is either at the lake home with my dad or at the Tulsa home where her dogs and cats have a fence (there is more to do in Tulsa).

I was involved in a previous church where I opened up a lot about my situation to my Christian friends and community group. I went to counseling there. I was sent a church discipline letter. It was spiritual abuse. I went through a mental breakdown when this happened. My husband and my inlaws were there for me.

I have been going to another church. My son was doing good at first in the toddler room. He started getting beeped out of the toddler room. I would take him to church on a monkey backpack leash. And it was not easy to control a toddler going 40 different directions. And I have not really gone to a sermon there in a while. If my son gets beeped out of his toddler room, I would go watch my son in the toddler room and he did better. I guess I just got tired of getting beeped out. I want my son to have good Christian friends. He is so young. And I do not want to push Christianity on him. I think as he gets older, I will have a better indication if he can truly make good friends at that church. They have a good children's program there. I just have not been able to open up and make any real friends myself there yet. I am kinda an exhausted toddler mom who does not want to get hurt at this point.

My son does have a great daycare that he goes to. He has a lot of really good friends there that he has grown up with. My son is like a teddy bear, so he gets a lot of hugs from the caregivers at the daycare. And we are going to be enrolling my son in some sports so that he has his own activities--he loves to be active and play--especiallly the the slide on the playground.

I did go to a couple of Al Anon meetings after the spiritual abuse. It was not as easy to go later on though.

cangel2

PrettyViolets:

It is clear that there is lot going on in this situation which I am sure is making things difficult and confusing for you. My suggestion for you is that you may greatly benefit from some professional advice both for you and for your children. Are you seeing a therapist? Sometimes having a seasoned and qualified third party to help us focus and unravel the chaos is the very best approach.

My take is that to be able to help your kids you need to first help yourself. Your son is clearly experiencing some trauma as I think you are as well. Please call your therapist or find one who can help!

PrettyViolets

I am not attracted to a guy that is overweight. Overeating is an addiction as well. He had a great heart--I liked dating him. I just did not to be married to him. And that guy had issues with his parents going through a divorce. My point was not to be shallow--it was to point out that overweight people have issues of their own. It was also to point out that there are guys out in the dating pool who do not want to be faithful (they are players). My husband wants to be faithful because his father was a good example to him.

I am just happier being with a fit person. I am a fit person. My husband is a fit person. I am happier being with a person whose parents have been married for a long time. My parents have been married over 40 years. My husband's parents have been married over 40 years. It is confusing for me when I would date guys and they would explain all the drama in their family. I am sorry--I had normal parents who just made their marriage work out. And I am happier being with someone that I am close in age to--it is easier to relate to him--there is a 4 month age gap between my husband and I. There are some normal things about my husband and I that do make a marriage work out.

suki44883

What or who is in the dating pool is irrelevant. This has nothing to do with that, it's just an excuse to stay where you are. What matters is the safety and well-being of your children. Your son is suffering! This isn't about you and who you can get to replace your husband, this is about taking care of your children. Isn't that what you came here asking about? You have danced all around our advice and chose to respond about how difficult your labor was and how your mother is doing and now about how heavy people have issues. That's all BS.

Seren

Hello everyone,

Please remember that when you say what you mean, do not say it meanly.

A couple of posts have been removed because they violated Rule 4:

PrettyViolets

Your advice is not really helping me. You are telling me what to do, and you really do not care about me. I am bleeding in a hospital. My mother almost died. And I am supposed to take advice from YOU? I am more confused now.

I would hope that this forum would be a supportive forum, not an abusive forum.

wicked

Yes, but you recovered right? And your mother is alive?
You are confused because the thread is not about you but your children.

Your son is sick, so sick he vomits from fear. You have him on a monkey leash? You are tired of being beeped out of the toddler room, but you will continue to take your son there because you want him to have Christian friends.

You had normal parents who made their marriage work. I think you are not understanding that a marriage cannot, will not, work out when one of the people is an alcoholic.

I was raised by an alcoholic father, a devout Roman Catholic who never went to mass, but sent us kids to catechism and mass for years. Good Christian? To the outside maybe.
There were four children in my family. All four of us grew up to be emotionally damaged and/or addicted to drugs and alcohol.
The statistics are against your children growing up to be "normal". Which is a word you keep using. They are more likely to become addicted or emotionally damaged by your marriage than "normal". You and your husband are fit? I disagree, anyone who uses a substance to change themselves or to "check out" (which your son has already learned to do) is not fit. Especially not fit to parent. A mother who figures it is best to be quiet and accept financial assistance from parents rather than rock the boat protecting her children is not fit to be a parent either.
You know how I know these things Violet? Because it is the way I grew up. It is the way I raised my children until 15 years ago when I stopped drinking. Yes, my children are damaged. That is our "normal".
You have two children you had late in life. You certainly don't sound like a forty year old woman with two children to me. You sound a little like one of the teenage pregnant girls on MTV. The focus keeps coming back to you. What about you? Well, unless you get some help, and I mean right now, you will be nearly 60 years old and trying to handle two damaged children you chose to have with this "fit" alcoholic.

Thank you all for sharing your experience and pain on this thread.
I hope Violet re reads until she gets it.
Having PTSD at 2 years old must be mighty scary.

Beth

We are all on your side Violet, you just don't know it yet.
I hope you keep coming back until you do know it. It is true.

Payton

Finding my spouse face down and unconscious, with our child in the room screaming in terror and horror, would be enough for me to pack up my kids and cats and get the hell out of there.

I wouldn't trust him to even be in the same room as a fragile newborn, and your poor 2 year old is unraveling in front of your eyes.

All of those reasons you have for staying just disintegrate when weighed against this.

Sometimes life sucks, and it's unfair. Your husband has let you down. Now you have to focus on saving your kids - or all of your dreams of being a mother to healthy, happy children - those will vanish too.

CeciliaV

Hi PrettyViolets - my heart aches to hear what you and your son are going through and to know that there is another child that will likely soon suffer the same fate if circumstances do not change. Children are such beautiful and resilient creatures, but there's only so much they can take...and it's a shame to hear about that bright flame of happiness and wonder getting snuffed out at such a young age. I won't judge you - I know that's not what you came here for and it wouldn't be helpful. What you need is support and guidance to help you through this time and to help you make the best decisions for the health and well-being of you and your children.

From what you describe (physical illness, blank expressions), it sounds like your son is being traumatized by the goings-on in your household. Unless your husband makes a commitment to recovery, I'm afraid that the trauma will just continue and possibly get even worse. I can understand you're afraid of going out on your own with the kids and that there are real financial and logistical issues that would be difficult to overcome. But there is a voice inside me screaming that most if not all issues from financial or logistical difficulties would be trumped by the continued trauma your son is experiencing right now and what your daughter will experience in years to come. Your children can recover easily from not having material things if you go out on your own and have a limited budget to raise them; they however cannot recover so easily from what sounds to me like a toxic home environment.

I urge you to look inside yourself and find the strength to do what you must do in order to protect yourself and your children. No one can tell you what that is - only you can come to that decision. You love your children, but you must also learn to love and trust yourself so that you will know that you are strong enough and smart enough and good enough to weather the storms to come, and that you and your children deserve to be happy and safe. Sending hugs your way.

gerryP

"You hoped this would be a supportive forum, not and abusive forum."

Since you posted the above statement, I'm interested to know what kind of support you were hoping for Pretty Violets?

BTW, what does "beeped out" mean?

hadenoughnow

I stayed until my son was 13. IT IS THE GREATEST REGRET OF MY LIFE THAT I DID NOT LEAVE EARLIER. I firmly believe that if I had stayed my son would be doing drugs or drinking and a HS dropout. The last 4 years have been a struggle to undo the damage.

This is what you face if you stay:

The A competing with your children for attention and resources (money, attention) and winning because he will make everyone miserable if you don't give in.

Your children being afraid or ashamed to bring friends home because they never know how the A will "be" that day.

No sleepovers because of the A.

Struggling to keep your kids in activities because of the A wanting to spend the time and $ drinking instead.

Worrying that your teen son and the A will get into fights because the teen has had enough of the A's crap.

Your kids finding the A's hidden bottles.

Your kids hearing the A call you lovely names like "bit**" and "whor*.

Having the money you saved for your child's bday party spend on booze.

Putting your kids college $ in your name only to keep the A away from it.

Having to get a mortgage in your name only because the A trashed his credit.

Getting a payday loan to buy groceries because the A stole your ATM card and emptied the checking account (again).

Hiding the grocery $ to keep the A from spending it.

The A getting angry at you and telling your kids he is going to kill himself and it's all your fault.

THE CHAOS THAT THE A CAUSES IN THE HOUSEHOLD DISTRACTS YOU FROM BEING A GOOD PARENT.

I experienced all of the above and more.

I am not sure what you want us to tell you. How to teach a two year old and an infant acceptance? To say the serenity prayer perhaps?

frances2011

Sending love and support to all on this thread.

Heavens to Betsy hadenoughnow, you just wrote out my childhood. The cancelled birthday party, the hidden bottles, no sleepovers, the fist fights with my old sibs and my dad, the money squandered, the college fund drained, my credit ruined by a loan in my name.

I'm actually open-jawed sitting here.

Sending support to the parents here who are taking action to help their kids and to those taking the first steps.

fedup3

Prettyviolet, I know that all of this is so hard and I know what denial is, I was in that state for a long time and a matter of fact so much of my life I can't even remember because of the blinders I put on not to see the truth. What everyone is trying to tell you is that alcoholism is a progressive disease and it will not stop until there's death (all he has to do is do nothing) or the will to get help and recover. Please educate yourself about alcoholism and read the stickies on the top of this forum. This disease has nothing to do with will power, or how much he loves you and the kids, it's an all consuming disease. You need to go to Al-Anon or seek therapy to help you through this. You know why you came to this forum, it's the same reason I first came here myself. I'm a child of an alcoholic and married to an alcoholic for 39 yrs. I can't tell you how messed up I am, but therapy is helping me a great deal. I know it's scary but you need to look truthfully at your situation and put yourself and the fear aside for the sake of the babies you love so much.

Please keep coming back.

Florence

PrettyViolets, you sound like you're experiencing some emotional disconnection from what's happening in your life right now. You have a lot going on, a lot of trauma recently, and you seem to be unable to make moves and decisions to protect yourself. There's no judgement in this, none, I've been there, but now that you've recognized and named the problem you are obligated for the sake of yourself and your children to start making the next right decisions.

If you take anything away from this conversation please, please, please, in this order:

1) Get your son to a pediatrician to rule out any medical reasons for his vomiting.
2) Get advice from your pediatrician on how to prevent or manage the vomiting he is experiencing. Be up front about the stress at home so they can take this into consideration (physical stomach-related symptoms are how small children manifest emotional distress). New baby, wild toddler, cut off from church, little support, alcoholic husband. Your pediatrician will probably point you in some good directions.
3) Start individual counseling for yourself. Not marital counseling.
4) Read everything you can about alcoholism. Learn, learn, learn. As long as your husband is in your life, in ANY capacity, you will need the tools to deal with this.

Make the phone calls this morning to schedule appointments for your son and for yourself. If insurance doesn't cover counseling, request someone who will accept you on sliding scale fees. They will treat you for a very reduced charge if necessary.

You can't afford any magical thinking right now. This *is* the crisis. All of us have experienced a lot of trauma thanks to alcoholism, so this exercise can be very triggering. But no one here wishes to hurt you. We are here to help and support you. But it seems like you need a light in the fog. Trust this process and let us be the light.

Buffalo66

Prettyviolets

I know this forum can come across as harsh, but there are ideas and basics that a lot of people who have been dealing with these issues for a long time have come across.

I would like to look at how you said your parents "made it work" for the run of the marriage. My MIL is from that school of thought. You just dont leave (She has since recanted her statements, after seeing how awful this has been on her grandson...) She stayed with her emotionally manipulative husband forever, and she is bitter and resentful, and she raised 4 sons who hate women.

A marriage that is clung to out of belief systems is maybe a dysfunctional marriage. ]

So he doesn't cheat, but your 2 year old found him face down.
That is no marriage to stay in.
Your fears about the dating pool are not the first thing on the list right now, and your focus on that, while understandable, is premature and a distraction.

You are in the hospital bleeding, and you cannot count on your partner. This is abuse. I want to acknowledge that. I want to acknowledge your pain. I want to say that you deserve to be able to feel safe and easy, that your kids are in good hands, and that your feelings matter.

Sometimes people on this forum get exasperated. And things come out mean.
I do think you need to hear some of it, but I want to also say, please take care of YOU. You deserve that. And your children. They deserve that.

I have written this before, and I will offer it to you:

An alcoholic is like a drowning man. They say, a drowning man will struggle and kick and scream in panic when you attempt to rescue him. Even if they want to be resuced they are in shock, and panic. Here's the catch: In the navy, they say, if a drowning man fights too hard, you should save yourself. If you drown trying to save him, you are no good to him, to yourself, or to others (THE KIDS).
ALcoholics WILL TAKE YOU DOWN WITH THEM> They cannot see any different.
They cannot see. They are blinded in sickness. You have some clarity, and you can still swim. You have got to get on dry land, and see to yourself and those children. He is fighting your attempts at saving him, and believe you me--when my RAH was a drunk, he would have taken me down. And it seemed like he knew it and he did not care. And guess what? He didn't. He couldn't.

These are some of the things that we have learned over years.
Im sorry if the forum feels harsh. Im sorry that this is happening to you, but you have to get on dry land.

I have read stories on here of people who were diagnosed with cancer, and their A still did not "wake up" and realize that the family was in peril. I have been diagnosed with heart disease and my SOBER RAH still could not rise out of his selfishness and put the focus on anyone but himself.

Please try to heed the cry for help that your kids are making.
Bless you, and I will send you strength.

PrettyViolets

I just want to say this very nicely. If the people on this forum are really in recovery, then they will not be mean--they will not have to be abusive or harsh (it comes across like displaced anger--like this poster really wants to puke on the actual alcoholic in their life--but they never got the chance, so they will just puke on somone who is just standing there). Do not make excuses for them either. No one is perfect here--and we all have something to learn. That is what a supportive forum is all about.

It is a personal decision regarding marriage. I should only have to say once --I am not leaving, and I am staying in my marriage. You may not understand this. based on your own experiences in your life. A healthy person who is in recovery would respect this and know that this is a personal decision and that divorce is not the only solution. I know my situation better than anyone. Why would anyone on this forum promote divorce if two people want to work things out in their marriage? And my FIL and MIL would tell you that we make a good couple, and that we are good parents because they see how their grandson is overall.

These children are not a burden. These children were very wanted by both my husband and I. Excuse me, but what the heck--"I chose to have 2 children with an alcoholic"--. The truth is that I married someone I loved and I chose to have 2 children with someone that I loved. And both of our families love those children.

And again, my husband visited me every day that I was hospital (that was not abuse), and my husband had the extra responsibility of being the main parent who was taking care of our son. My inlaws came in on the weekends to help with taking care of our son. My husband's grandmother offered to pay for one of my hospital bills so that I would not feel the burden. I felt extremely guilty that they had this responsibility. This was not abuse, this was love for me, for my husband, for my son and my unborn child. But guess what happened --my husband relapsed, and I just wish that he had been stronger. Darnit, it makes really confusing when those alcoholics have the ability to love--imagine that, and it is confusing when they relapse as well.

Some posters on this forum came across like alcoholics, especially if you are putting the word "BS" in your post and you have no emotion when someone talks about their mother and their pregnancy complications--I felt like this poster was belittling my real pain (bleeding in a hospital and being scared about your unborn child is real pain, hearing that your mother may die is real pain because there is a fear that you may never see someone that you really love again). Alcoholics have to tendency to analyze everything that the person is saying--and they are superior and they not open to anyone else's point of view. Some people just want to share on this forum, and they do not want everything analyzed. And they want to share in a supportive forum. If I want something analyzed, I will go to a professional and pay money.

My husband did better the rest of the week (please do not analyze this, I am just sharing this). He had good quality time with our son--they like to watch the Simpsons (and my son throws a tantrum when it is over--and then my husband has to explain that the Simpsons are over--gotta love a toddler). But I know it is more that my son is happy in that situation, and he does not want the experience to end. And my son is the same way if we make him leave the slide on a playground or some other fun activity. He is a toddler. My son really loves his father (please do not analyze this--even my toddler son is not analyzing this).

I did talk to my husband today about how I really felt. And it was a good talk. He went to a meeting with his sponsor today. We had a good day today as a family.

Windmills

Are you on the radar with CPS? I'm in the UK and you would definitely have been flagged by social services here. I don't know how the system works there, but here children are removed and placed into care when their mother refuses to leave a dangerous home. Alcoholics aren't fit to parent. Especially not to be the MAIN CARER, whatever the circumstances. Would you ever leave your kids with someone who was drunk if it wasn't their father? Every time you choose to stay, further damaging your children, you are putting yourself and your feelings before the needs of your children. Have you looked at the ACoA forum?
I find it genuinely scary that you refuse to acknowledge the effect this is having on your children. You post about your children and them get angry and tell us the reasons YOU want to stay for YOU. I don't think there is a single reason children should ever grow up in a home with an active addict. I think this thread has touched a nerve with me, I could easily cry for your children. You're their mother. Their father is currently incapable of being a responsible adult.. You need to take up that role ASAP. Have you been to al alon yet?