Buffalo66

My RASTBExH is flagging on visitation. He wants to pop in and out without a schedule. I want to keep it all separate.

He makes threats: If I ask questions he doesnt like, or I dont let him use the house for visits he will not show up. He did it on Wednesday.

I am considering looking into custody court to save my sanity. I am going nuts. He is just so freaking erratic. I dont want to have to deal with the nutty day to day anymore. I want my sanity back!

He is a real bully, so he pre-emptively announced if I even tried to enforce custody plans via court that he would come with all guns. He says he has a great job( I get royalty income), is buying a house. (we rent), and he is sober 18 months.

I have been primary careiver for son since birth. RAH has never had a sleepover with his own son ALONE.

Should I be at all worried, if I take this into court? Does his "looks good on paper" stability weigh against me that much, or am I pretty much favored due to his being absent and alcoholic and basically homeless for first 5 years of sons life? Our son is 7 now.

Any input would help.

wow04

Are you saying it is for visitation or fighting for custody?

Anappleaday

It sounds as if you are saying he will fight custody.

Custody rules vary from state to state but ALL judges consider the best interest of the child first.

Usually it means who has spent the most time and bonded with the child as they don't want to disrupt how a child is living if they are fine.

If he hasn't been there and you child is doing fine, he won't have any luck.

lillamy

Get a lawyer. That's the only solid advice I have.

When I divorced, I made half of what my AXH was making. I lived in a "marginal" neighborhood. He had been sober for six months or so. He was a well-respected person in the community. Even so, the judge was surprised that I wasn't going for full custody (and sounded like he would have given it to me).

But that's experiential evidence and nothing you should base your decisions on.
Get a lawyer. Get a lawyer. Get a lawyer.

And then absolutely get this nailed down in court documents. If you allow him to come and go as he pleases, he retains his control over you and you can't ever really relax if he can show up at any moment and demand to see his son.

Spes

I don't know enough about your situation and I don't know the laws of your State. I have worked in Family Law, although more on the Child Support side than the custody/visitation side. I'll give you a few generalizations that may help you.

First and formost. If you don't have an attorney, get one. If you do have an attorney, ask him/her these questions. You want to base your future and your son's future on good, sound legal advice.

Remember that child support and custody/visitation are 2 seperate issues and neither is dependent upon the other.

The Court can create specific Orders that explicitly spell out visitation/custody guidelines and schedules so that he doesn't have the ability to bully you or tell you how his visitation will be run.

Custody is generally not based on who makes the most money or who owns or rents housing; it is generally based on the best interests of the child. However, I have seen unfair Court Orders, not because someone makes more money but generally because someone did not have an attorney. Pro Se in family court with children is almost never a good idea.

If he makes threats....document it with your attorney. Family Court will issue protection orders or attorneys for both sides can advise no direct contact between parties.

Find out if your Court can order supervised visits with a 3rd party who's only interest is the child.

If he has a great job and makes a lot of money, the Child Support guidelines are designed to make his fair share of support for his child based on the custody order. You attorney would create these guidelines based on both of your financial statements and the final custody order.

Finally...and it bears repeating: If you don't have an attorney, get one. If you do have an attorney, ask him/her these questions. You want to base your future and your son's future on good, sound legal advice.


Divorce, seperation, and anything relating to children is extemely difficult emotionally when one of the parties is a bully...and you say he is a bully. With a good attorney, he cannot bully you...he has to bully the attorney.

I'm sorry you are going through this. Please take care of yourself.

Buffalo66

I just want to cry.

It is about visitation. But he is threatening to turn it into custody. He is saying he would have son at LEAST half the time. He works. Apparently when he lived here, he worked all the way up til midnight every night, and could never make it home for dinner...Quack quack.

Did I mention he is sober?
Should I start recording phone calls or video tape his outbursts. He has no psychiatrist to subpeona.

He is functional to have the job and be there for his friends, but Ill be damned if I would say he is stable enough for partial custody.

Right now he has 3 sceduled 4 hour visits a week. And his extra "summer job" supposedly makes that schedule obsolete...

I dont want to have to see him. I feel like I am going to break into hives when the phone rings anymore.

This is worse than the drinking by far. His threats and mental abuse are just too much now.

Pelican

Speak with an attorney about your rights in your community. It helped put and end to my awfulizing.

Jilllian

nothing hurts a good mother to her core than an emotionally abusive ex who threatens with the words "i'll sue for custody, and i'll get it." i felt that memory as i read your last post.

getting a lawyer is very good advice. document, document, document. can't guarantee that it will help, but it can't hurt. if you're going to ask for a 3rd party to "supervise," please make sure for your son's sake that it's not at a depressing department of social services site. ick.

i've fought for years to keep my kids from my alcoholic ex., and was finally able to get sole custody only after a string of disasters (them having to be rescued after a boating accident of the coast of the vineyard, his passing out on a lawn mower and leaving them unattended while one played with a butcher knife and one sucked on a pot pipe, etc.)

it doesn't look good that's he's not once had a sleep over with his son in 7 years.

does your son have a law guardian?

you're fighting the good fight for your kids, and it's awesome that they have you.

hadenoughnow

Start keeping track of how often he does not show up for visitation. His expectation that you leave the house and his refusal to parent on his own are going to work against him in a very big way.

He is blowing smoke to get you to comply with his wishes IMO. He will not get 50/50 or even close to that unless he can prove he has at least a place of his own with the proper facilities for your son (aka not sleeping on someone else's couch).

You will have to give up some of your control here and let him fail so you can document it. Stop trying to convince him to spend time with his son and let him fail.

My exah made many of the same threats, he didn't take half of the visitation he demanded be put in the order.

Buffalo66

He is buying a house within the month. It's like he is on turbo or something. freaking me out.
Thanks, hadenough.

I just feel so shredded.

Anappleaday

Is there a court order in place for his scheduled visits - how did the "scheduled" visits and "where" the visits were to take place come about?

Buffalo66

We made the plan in the presence of our sons counselor, framed as HIS advice, so the rebel without a cause wouldn't balk if it was my plan.

I think I assumed he would take child out of my home, because its only 4 hours at dinner time frame, and the weather has been great.

He just is so hard to deal with and
today he is leaving messages about the houses he has found. It is really tugging at me.

I literally shudder at the idea of living under HIS roof, right now...He is manic or turbo-dry-drunk man, Lord..I would be under his "control. He would really play on it. And it scares the bejesus out of me.

but...

A house was our dream, and I am tired. I am sad that he is just an *******. I am mad that he could not just get the proper meds, and those 5 months last spring/summer when he stabilized on the meds really did a number on me.

I just thought it was all going to finally, against all odds, turn out OK. Really OK, lIke I am loved and cared for, and I have a partner OK.

Not so. NOw he is buying a house and threatening to take my son
Life is NOT FAIR

Buffalo66

sorry i am spiralling a little.
I know he is beset and cynical and troubled and pressured and angry and mean spirited and all of that.
He has a hard time ever being happy. Even SOber and successful!

Please help me snap out of that mind trick---The one where I keep imagining that without me, all will be great, and he will be gardening and entertaining and staying home all evening---ALL the Things he simply COULD NOT do here with me.

Help! I dont want to go down that road. I know its an illusion.

hadenoughnow

He SAYS he is buying a house. He SAYS he is going after 50/50. My exah SAID he was going to stop the divorce, sue me, sue my attorney. They SAY a lot of things. My exah has a house too, did not make any difference in how little he was willing to parent (and our son was a teen!). Quack Quack Quack

The fact that you had to get a therapist involved just to get him to spend time with your son will be very telling to a judge.

Hopeworks

Buffalo,

Breathe. Deep breaths. Seriously. 5 minutes of deep slow breathing. Empty your mind and visualize your favorite peaceful spot.

Comments on your situation:

It is not as dire as you believe. You are awfulizing and I think you need to rethink some of the current visitation.

1. We codies fantasize that once alcohol is removed the A is going to be perfect. Sober is not recovery and recovery takes time. Abstinence can unleash an even meaner more calculating manipulative dry drunk. Wring the alcohol out of an asshat and all you have left is the asshat.

2. Get a diary. Carry it with you at all times and write in it every single thing to the nth degree. Dates, times, threats, missed appointments, phone calls to the minute. If you end up in court this will be huge... A's do not do this well. Advantage: you.

3. The visitation schedule is stupid. Is there anyone on A's side that can supervise visitiation? Grandma, Aunt... anybody you trust? Current plan is TOO instrusive on you and far too frequent. Is the counselor still involved? If not... I would get a GOOD one that knows addiction and recovery and children of A's. Crucial component. Find one that is accredited with the court. Find out what your kid feels about daddy... make sure you are being counseled as you are WAAAY too stressed out. Kids pick up on this.

Dad needs to be dad longer than a few hours. This is cake. You should not be supervising... not good for you. Is he safe with the child???? Could he pick him up and take him for the day (no overnights...say 9 am to 6 pm). This would feel more "normal" to both dad and child and they could go to the zoo, play ball at the park etc... You get a break... yeah!

3. Statistically most abstinent A's relapse... do not think the courts are going to swoon at his current status. Women do have a big advantage. Lawyers will talk to you for free on an initial consultation. Talk to a bunch of lawyers (confirm the first visit is free) and you will get a lot of free advice and can continue to plan.

4. Boundary setting. Crucial element to your own recovery. Do not let him continue to run roughshod over you. You have custody and you control the situation...I think he is bluffing that he wants to run to court and get full custody! Are you kidding me? A's don't want the work and responsibility of real parenting and this is most likely just a VERY EFFECTIVE manipulative tool pulled out of the A bag of tricks. You are a basket case just thinking about the idea of him having the child... he is pushing your buttons.

5. Alanon and the steps. Just do it. Lifechanging and empowering. Counseling. No contact AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

6. Bubble baths, music and planning down time and relaxation for mom. A must.

Prayers your way. You are stronger than you think. You can do this thing.

transformyself

I"m sorry if someone already posted this, I'm at work and want to respond quickly to you.


Stop listening to him Buffalo. Stop talking to him. He is using his BS to control you; brainwashing you into thinking he's more powerful than he is. He can only do what you allow him.

You are smart and amazing, tell him to get a ******* lawyer and STOP TALKING TO HIM. He's not sane, it doesn't matter how long he's been sober or if he's the Queen of England, this is what attorneys are for--SANITY

He is not going to listen, or suddenly become rational and kind to you. He is not your friend anymore.

Document EVERYTHING. Tell him effective immediately he will follow what you put in place and there is no discussion anymore and hang up the phone.

Stop negotiating with him. That's what the lawyers are for.

I"m sorry to be so freaking bossy. I just went through this Darlin and I wasn't until I sucked myself out of that hell hole and stood up to him that things got better. Now AH scurries when he sees me. It's bizarre what happens when I'm become myself again.

You can do this. don't be afraid. Arm yourself with information and take action.

JenT1968

fab advice above, I'm not in the US so have no ESH re legal systems, but I can share my experience with exAH.

I have been very anxious about setting boundaries re visitation, and every time I have there has been a massive kick-back reaction: lots of phone calls, name calling, bullying, pressure, intimidation, threats, both physical and court and other legal threats re "crimes" he falsely thinks I have committed.

That was initially very difficult to deal with. But I had an excellent counsellor who helped me get through the emotional stuff, and a family lawyer for the legal advice (which was mainly: "we'll deal with that when the court sends the custody/visitation paperwork following his application to them").

we seperated 2.5 years ago. he has never once followed through with any of his legal threats, and refuses to attend mediation to sort it out: his MO has always been to bully me until I give in to his demands, when we were together, and when we were seperated but he still owned the house we lived in, I was always too scared to not give in eventually but I have now found that when I stand my ground he is difficult and nasty, but doesn't follow through (and honestly, the difficult/nasty just affirms what he is really like).

Things that help me deal with this emotionally are:
Cut as much contact as possible, and then I worked with a counsellor to cut even more (I had a serious imagination failure when it came to how visitation could work with minimal contact)
I don't supervise any visits,
I don't talk to him at hand over (on the children's request, he still tries to bring up contact/financial stuff at handover, but I have promised the children I won't even acknowledge it from now on).
I don't speak to him on the phone if at all possible (he sometimes catches me out, and I have to think of a new way to deal with when the kids hand me the phone when he's on it).

email and text only, anything legal can be sent to my lawyer.
I don't repsond to any accusatons, explain myself , or even direct him to my lawyer, just non-reponse same with threats, he is aware of the legal system if he wants to pursue that I will deal with that when/if he does.

emails and texts are all saved, documented and sent to my lawyer. She has advised me to go to the police re the threats and calling me a ***** etc and I am weighing that up.

I came accross the tool "JADE" which is a way people who have to deal with narcissists protect themselves. google it. it means not getting drawn into Justifying, Arguing, Defending, Explaining, yourself to someone who is attempting to bully you, because it feeds into the negative attention/contact a narcissist wants (if they can't get positive affirmations).

I am not saying either my ex or yours is a narcissist (far too easy a term to throw around) or that it stops the attempted bullying, but it limits the opportunities, and is a tool that massively helps me.

Florence

Ooh, this is really useful. 90% of my custody battle could have been mitigated if I'd followed this advice.

Lots of great advice above. Ignore most of what we've said until you've gotten a good lawyer. So get a lawyer.

My ex made a lot of threats, but carried through on almost none of them. We battled in court and among lawyers until -- as is standard in my area -- the judge appointed a mediator and told us to figure it out. The mediator was a mixed blessing. It took the steam out of his accusations and blustering, but I gave in way too much and didn't ask for what I should have. After it was all said and done, we have joint custody, and I have primary custody with him having visitation rights. Joint custody just means that we have to involve one another on major decisions, like medical, schooling, etc. His visitation is what people usually think of, every other weekend and half of the summer. Otherwise, our son is with me.

A couple of things: Almost NO judge will grant a 50/50 split in visitation time. This is just something that people say without knowing that judges see this demand as a selfish play. 50/50 is not in the best interest of the children or the parents, with very few exceptions.

Also, 18 months of sobriety is not that long. You have to remember that unbiased, experienced family court judges see this scenario all the time, and while they will give you extra scrutiny to make sure you aren't pulling anyone's leg, they see the reformed ex-drunk I-LOVE-MAH-KIDS kabuki play all the time. While 18 months is enough to probably handle unsupervised visitation, it's not enough to turn over the full care of a child to a newly sober person for the first time alone.

Another hint is the lack of initiative your ex has taken regarding your children so far. My thought is that while he might even believe what he's saying about getting full custody, the reality of getting it would absolutely terrify him. I think he's bluffing, and he's using this to get at you.

I'm not so coarse to suggest that you "just don't let it get to you" but I do think it's extremely important to really engage in good self-care during this time, and to have a 3rd party to talk to and bounce around your ideas. Once I got wrapped up in my ex's BS, I had a very difficult time figuring out which way was up. But I really like this "no Justifying, Arguing, Defending, Explaining yourself to your bully" advice as a reminder not to let him pull you into the fray. Let it be this simple (while you are getting your stuff together to finalize everything in court): If you both agreed to let him visit on Friday night from 5-9pm, let it stand, and let it be his business. You don't help him make it happen, you don't drive your son anywhere to meet him, you don't supervise, you don't send reminders or request explanations if/when he doesn't arrive. Get your agreements in writing, and if he chooses to go back on them, he suffers the consequences of his own bad decisions (i.e. losing a good relationship with his kids). If he wants to change the whole arrangement, he needs to hire a lawyer or a mediator, and until then the current arrangement stands.

How old is your son? If you're concerned about what happens on the visitations, it might be time to have a safety conversation with him, and maybe get him a cheap cell phone so he has a way of contacting outside help without having to go through his dad.

Thumper

I could not agree more with the above! This should be engraved somewhere!

I will agree that the emails only, ignoring, and the 'JADE' Tool saved me! Even though it felt a bit off at first (like I was giving in or letting him win) it did not take long before I realized that it brought my personal power back to me. Engaging gave him my power and the JADE tool was keeping my power within myself. I was getting stronger! It was life changing - seriously!

i wish I'd have known of the "JADE" tool then. Having something to read, or even just the above - so concrete like that - would have been a handy way for me to strengthen my resolve.

I also used the 'Just do the next right thing.' idea a lot. I was also very very afraid about custody disputes. Lots of threats were coming my way regarding that. Doing the next right thing helped me move forward and not awfulize the future.

sugarbear1

He's hitting you where he knows it will hurt. I think he's manipulating you. I also would file for a restraining order if there is one more threat to you or your child's safety. I would demand supervised visitation, no overnights.

Work with your attorney. Get to the Abused Person's Program/Domestic Violence Office and seek some counseling and advice there.

You're going to be okay.

Love & hugs,