EmmyG

My AH called me tonight, sounded sober. He said he really wants to move forward and do what's best for the kids, whether that means we live together or apart. He said he was okay with us living separately for awhile and trying to work through things, and that he's ready to seek treatment and do what he has to do. He said he just really feels resentment toward me for that lie I told.

I've already mentioned it on this board, but we got engaged in the UK (we met in the US but had a long-distance relationship, which is how he was able to hide the severity of his alcohol problem from me). The night after I flew back to the US after our engagement, I went out on the town for my cousin's friend's birthday. We had plans to go out in one town, and that's what I told him we were doing. However, plans changed, and we ended up going to one of my favorite bars. While drunk, he had made comments about me going to that place so much, and seemed insecure about it. (In hindsight, I should have seen that as a red flag.) I lied about being at that bar. For no reason other than my codependent fears of upsetting him. He has used it against me ever since, and accused me of lying because I was meeting up with a former boyfriend or because I must have had a one-night stand with someone. He has always questioned my past and whenever he's drunk, he will interrogate me about the details of my sexual history. Mind you, I've slept with one other person besides him. I did lie about how many people I'd kissed, but that's because I felt guilty about it due to my super-religious upbringing. What I'm trying to say is, I have a very limited sexual history, but he doesn't want to believe that.

So tonight, he tells me in order to move forward, he needs me to write down and explain to him why I lied about where I was that night, because maybe he'll understand this time and be able to move on. I wrote him an epic email about how much I love him, and I swore on our children that I've never cheated on him. Not that night, not ever. This is the response I got:

"Thank you for taking the time to write this letter. But there's certain aspects I just don't believe or comprehend. You lied. And I know in the grand scheme of things why. I'll always be your mate but your actions speak volumes. I meant every word about helping and providing for you, but I can't give you my love. I hope you understand, how could I. I don't take this decision lightly. But for all my faults and hypocrisies, I thought the pure girl was you. And you are not. And I know she is out there. I just wish you had not lied, because I could overcome things if I was dealing with straight honesty. How could that not be respected. I have two beautiful, amazing wonderful sons now, and I wouldn't change that for anything. But I'm here now because of you in a alien country, one I have grown to love. So I am here. I just wish in the beginning honesty was at play. Because that I would have no issue with. If it was owned without deceit than you have no problem, like I said. You lied. Careless talk has cost much."


I feel so humiliated for putting myself out there and caving to him. I know I was wrong to lie. I feel terribly about that. But is it worth breaking up a marriage? After all I've forgiven him for. I feel so betrayed. To be honest, he sounded a little weird on the phone earlier. Maybe he's on something. Who knows. I am so tired of the craziness and the manipulation. Yet here I am, feeling slightly responsible for breaking our family apart. This is so fu***d up.

marie1960

Oh Emmy,

He is manipulating you.
He is using this as an excuse for his own **** poor behavior.
He questions your sexual history? WTH?

The past is the past, and I'd be damned if I would ever let a man make me feel like less of a woman because of something that happened many years ago. Actually, it's not any of his business what you did before you married him.

The manner and subject of his attack on you , are childish and immature.

Maybe its time he cleans out his own closet.

Hugs to you.

chronsweet

Personally if you gave him your answer and he keeps hounding you about it, what does that say about him? He sounds like my ABF whom I told a white lie too so he would feel guilty. Yeah, I know it was wrong at the time, but geez I have dealt with alot of crap from him.

My ABF was on opiates and literally couldn't/wouldn't have sex with me for probably close to 2 years. I felt seriously neglected, disappointed, angry, etc. I tried to incite some jealousy in him to see if he cared and told him I slept with someone else at my work. I lied to see if he had any sort of feeling about me what-so-ever. At the time, he really seemed indifferent. I told him shortly after I lied about it, talked to him in counseling about it, told him why I said it, etc etc AND NOW he holds it against me as proof that I did something I really didn't do.

Was it stupid on my part, YES?? Have I done it since then, NO!!!! Now that I got him a job at my work, he has *chosen* the guy I had an affair with. Sigh. Our stories are on opposite ends of the spectrum, LOL, but I guess my point is when he brings it up now, I just laugh. What MORE can I say than what I have already explained. If he truly cared he would look at my actions throughout our entire relationship. If he cared he would have understood the hurt I was going through. He didn't care when he withheld affection for years and he doesn't care now when I try to converse with him about getting sober and working on our relationship.

How do you feel when he brings up this stupid little lie over and over and over again? How does he feel about the fact that he has told lies concerning his sobriety? My ABF has stolen from me, lied to me, hit me, belittled me, treated me like I am beneath him, and he is hung up on one little lie I told him because of all the terrible crap he has done to me. It's whatever. I don't let him intimidate me about it anymore.

EmmyG

Exactly. He is pinning the fate of our whole marriage on this and my stupid lie when I've never so much as looked sideways at another guy. This unwillingness to forgive is coming from someone who has verbally and physically abused me. He said he could forgive me for drunken abuse but not for lying. Lol

chronsweet

He is trying to make his problems about you, not him. My ABF is a master at this game. I am seriously not trying to play that game anymore. It takes a lot of work and practice to not engage him, trust me. BUT, I have been doing better at it. Went to Al-Anon and going to go back next Friday. It's time to get my groove back. The groove I had before being emotionally sucked in and abused by an alcoholic. Never been in a relationship with an A before and I can honestly say once I make my break, NEVER.AGAIN.

Don't let him play games with you. If he brings it up perhaps tell him that you have went over this many times and you think you have bigger problems to deal with than something that happened five freaking years ago and to get over it??? I am not telling you what to do, but I personally do not engage my ABF when he brings up that ONE STUPID LIE over and over again. I tell him I am a moral, trustworthy person and many other people recognize me as so.

EmmyG

I feel like such a fool. Last year we went to a charity event with a large group of friends and he went out to a bar without me and left me in the hotel pregnant and taking care of our 3-year-old. Friends came up to let me know he'd been arrested for drunk in public outside of the hotel. He convinced me he hadn't been drinking and that it was just weed even after two people told me he had been drinking. I took his word. What an idiot!!! Why did I ever associate myself with such an insane person.

akrasia

Gnargh. Dear God I got the heebie-jeebies just reading that. He's got WAY more issues that just an alcohol problem. Controlling, manipulative, creepy as all get-out.

You don't need us to tell you that the whole, "I went out to this one bar, oh no actually I was at this other bar," is nothing but him leaping on something to be PARANOID about.

That's not even a "lie," in my book. It's called "having a private life." It's none of his damn business.

If it weren't this he'd have found some other excuse to be a manipulative creep about--dinner is cold, you left a light on, you said hello to a MALE friend on the street.

I'm so glad you're away from him. I would recommend going no-contact for a while so you can recouperate mentally.

Zoenob

Holy Cow! My XABF badgered me the sam way! He did it while completely sober. It would make me insane. I can't handle being called a liar and when he would do it I would see red. He would badger me over and over. We could be having the best day and then all the sudden out of the blue he would bring it up again. He loved to do it before bed. When I couldn't take it anymore I would snap! I couldn't detach. Then he would just have more proof in his eyes how crazy and unstable I was and that I was the one that needed serious help(he's right, I do need help for accepting that psychotic behavior) WTF? Do they read this in a mental abuse 101? I have NEVER EVER cheated on him or lied yet he has done both on me more times than I can remember, and yet I'm the lying cheating wh*re he can't ever trust. Every time after these psychotic episodes he would tell me how he can't be in a relationship without trust. Really?

Sorry Emmy, your post hit a nerve and I am so sorry for the mentally assault on your senses and heart. I was just so shocked that it ALWAYS happened to me when he was sober. Don't get sucked in like me.

Zoenob

Oh I forgot to add that after I would blow up and walk away, come back to bed after I calmed down, Mr. Narcissist would tell me how my psycho outbursts were a huge character defect that I needed to work on. Mutha Fer!

stressedwife

The alcoholic will always put the focus on "your problems" to keep the focus off his. I have been married to my AH for 30 years and have just recently admitted to myself he is an alcoholic and have also come to know (through reading) that he's been verbally and emotionally abusive all these years. Any "talks" I've tried to have with him in the past about his drinking, verbal abuse, etc. have never accomplished anything and most times were turned around on me and what problems I need to work on. You need to take time to heal yourself, concentrate on you. Keep coming here, go to Alanon or even get counseling (which I will be starting very soon myself). He's being immature and an alcoholic. Until he admits he's an alcoholic, it will always be you who has the problems..not him.

dollydo

You were single, you owed him no explanation. How you can turn something that you did before you were married into why your marriage didn't work is beyond me. He has moved on, he is wanting to find him another victim, this is all a red herring.

He is playing a game with you, he is making you groval at his feet, you are giving him all the power. This is all about degrading you.

Get up, dust yourself off and regain your life, your power. Go no contact unless you absolutely must talk to him about the children.

Please stop torturing yourself by addressing his insanity.

Pelican

Emmy,

You are being abused. His behavior is manipulative, abusive, bullying and unacceptable.

He is desparately trying to get you back in line so he can continue to reign and rule over his *perfect* family.

I spent a few minutes looking back over your posts. 10 days ago you posted this:
It has been 10 days since he said he would get into therapy immediately. How has that worked out for him? Has he even made an appointment? Doubtful. Just manipulation.

It is time to stop listening to his words and look at his actions.

Look at his reply. Look at how he twists every sentence back to blaming you for his behaviors. Thank you BUT......I believed BECAUSE......BUT, BUT, quack, quack
Did he give you a list of requirements for his life partner when you began dating? Did he give you a written standard of acceptance? OR is this standard of acceptance something he developed in hind-sight:
I hope you will take time this week to talk to some professionals. I think a free consultation with a lawyer will help you understand what your rights are as a parent and spouse in this situation. (Please share your texts and voicemails with a lawyer)
and please contact a Domestic Violence organization to find out what resources are available to you in your area.

These consultations do not mean you are taking action. They are steps to help you gain clarity and information. I found that I was able to make healthier decisions for myself and my children when I understood the facts from professionals who were trained to give advise about my situation.

Keep reaching out for help Emmy, You are worth the effort!

RedCandle

Yup....my XABF would repeatedly get me into a place of "confession." I would start opening up, talking about my deepest thoughts, talking about past events...at FIRST he would appear understanding and compassionate.

But he was just fishing for future fodder.

Because the next time he got upset...all that I had said was thrown back at me with full force.

Its a scorecard. In order to even the playing field, he needs something in his back pocket against you.

Don't give it to him - thats the lesson I learned. They can't win a game they are playing by themselves.

suki44883

Yep, he is an abusive, narcissistic control freak. If he had such a problem with you going to that bar and not telling him (which he shouldn't), he shouldn't have married you. To go ahead and marry you and then throw it in your face for years is ridiculous.

I'm glad you are away from him and I hope with all my heart you stay away from him. While you will have to deal with him somewhat since you have children together, you will not have to put up with his other shite. He sounds just horrid.

wanttobehealthy

He is a manipulative lying jerk who has lied to you, deceived you endlessly and verbally & psychologically abused you to the point that he has YOU believing that you did something wrong by not saying you were at some bar years and years ago? He's managed to tie that one mistake on your part to questioning your fidelity and making you swear on your kids lives etc.... He's insane and a sick man for doing this to you.

For as long as he can keep the focus on you (and unintentionally you are allowing him to do that with your letter to him telling him how you care etc..) he doesn't have to focus on himself.

I have been just where you are-- written long letters pouring my heart out and telling AH how much I loved him and wanted to make things work and he'd reply and manage to find anything he could to criticize me for.

He is an alcoholic, he has lied to you repeatedly, he doesn't own his behavior, he doesn't think how he treats you is a problem and like master manipulators, he has managed to justify in his mind (and appears to have convinced you too-- he IS psychologically abusing you, he is!) that YOU are the cause of the end of things between you two.

Come here and type letters to us that you are tempted to send him. Do not fuel his fire by responding.

I know, god do I know, how hard it is to NOT defend yourself. But that's what he wants. Your JADE (justify, argue, defend, explain) gives him the ability to argue with you, poke holes in your facts, call you a liar and hurt you.

He has to think of you as he does because it's the only way he can avoid looking at himself. He has to put the addiction first and will do whatever it takes to ensure it's #1, even hurting you. The love you feel/felt and the committment you made to him are not the same as what he felt for you. He is incapable of love and committment and real investment in a r/s while addiction is active.

Don't give him the time of day-- I am sure that reply from him hurt. I felt sad for you reading your post and have been in your shoes more times than I care to count with stbxAH.

Please post here frequently when you are inclined to contact him.

wanttobehealthy

PS- it kind of makes me want to vomit to read his line about how he thought you were a "pure girl". What gives him the right to judge you? Based on what you shared with us it sounds like he is berating you for having ever been involved with anyone other than him before you were married to him and that's sick and controlling.

And lastly, his behavior sure as $hit isn't "pure" (alcoholism, abuse, lying, manipulating). Surely he doesn't think that he is a saint does he???

All I can say is that he seems to have a whole hell of a lot more wrong than just drinking. He sounds very unstable, and narcissitic... He sounds far too similar to my own H and it worries me a lot for you.

Keep coming back here... xo

Smallsteps

WTBH has nailed it. The only way out of this trap is to refuse to engage.

Or just smile and wave

Katiekate

Emmy, this bull about something that happened when you got engaged is just that , ********. If that's all he has, then he will play it to the hilt.

If it were me , at this point I would just inform him that you do not intend to rehash old crap. I am sure you could pull quite a few past trangressions out of your back pocket, do not buy this,

Simply tell it like it is, i went out, no harm done, I have apologized, I am done with this topic, NEXT. Then walk away.

It is abusive, are you a child??? He wants you to write him an essay, then once it's in writing he will pull that out whenever he feels you have the tiniest bit of power.

We are adults, we do get to choose what is acceptable and what is not. I am getting there, you will too.

much love to you K

EnglishGarden

This is a quote from a book I have called "The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists":

"Your involvement with the Narcissist is characterized by an ever-increasing effort to please and gain approval. Instead, you are more likely to see the unpredictable anger and rage over the smallest infraction or mistake. Great sensitivity to criticism, or intolerance of anything perceived as less than a perfect performance, can cause the Narcissist to unleash an outburst of sharp and hurtful rage. At times these experiences leave you feeling helpless, unable to do anything but crawl off to a corner to figure out what happened."

Many addicts are also severely narcissistic, and sometimes if they get sober, the narcissism remains.

Maybe you can check your local library, Emmy, for some books on Narcissistic Personality Disorder. His cruelty may be simply the domination and control of the addict personality. Or he may have full blown NPD. But I think if you read, in detail, what the experience of being with a narcissist is, you may get yourself back on solid ground again.

He is chilling.

JenT1968

he probably doesn't even care at all about your "transgression", or about "that pure girl" mythology (good grief!) it's only importance to him is that you care about it, that you feel guilty, it's a great hook to turn the attention away from any of his faults and back on to you.

I think he is probably trying to get you to come back to him, but more compliant and crushed and accepting, so that any time he feels even slightly "in the wrong" he can whip out how he has overlooked your "lying" and past "sexual history" and beat you with it further into submission.

ExAH does this, I didn't get it for ages, but worked with a therapist, and was once able to detach enough to see him cycling through accusations, some of them linked to very personal hurts and things in my past that I had shared, and things that I had opened up to him about feeling whilst we were together, some of them just entirely made up, trying to find the one that hooked me into focussing on my anxieties and shortcomings and away from him.

I used to defend myself endlessly, try and make him see that the things he was accusing me of were him taking things the wrong way or blowing stuff out of proportion or plain wrong, gathering evidence, pleading, writing and explaining over and over again. But I'm getting better, it helps that right now he has latched onto a couple of things that I know are incorrect, (and have verfiable outside proof are nonsense) and I'm not trying to explain to or show him why (just plays straight into what he's doing) and gives me a breather for a while as he concentrates on those things and doesn't try anything new.

It was really hard to not defend myself at first, but now I know that he a) doesn't really care about, or believe, the things he is accusing me of and b) any contact he gets just feeds the monster, it is easier.

I try to think of him as someone with a mental illness who can't help acting the way he does, who needs to keep up this alternate realtiy facade in order to carry on. Very sad, but nothing I can do about it.