Setting boundaries = being judgmental?
Climbing hills, flying down...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: By the Sea
Posts: 565
Setting boundaries = being judgmental?
ASis says I'm being "judgmental" because I have set boundaries to refuse to engage in her behavior when she's drinking. She says that "I don't understand that she has a disease" and that I'm "judging her" by letting her know that I am uncomfortable with her drinking and setting a boundary (she is drinking = I do not have a relationship with her).
I think I've answered my own question by typing this out, but is this "judgmental"? Or more alcoholic quacking?
I think I've answered my own question by typing this out, but is this "judgmental"? Or more alcoholic quacking?
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
from a recovering alcoholic, its only judgemental if you think it is. i've had that happen and have been called judgemental. well, yes!! i am!! how else would i know who i dont want around me and who i want around me? it doesnt help me to be around sick people, family or not.
it seems to me that someone saying i dont understand they have a disease is rationalization, a form of insanity. i think i may have used that once or twice,too.
it seems to me that someone saying i dont understand they have a disease is rationalization, a form of insanity. i think i may have used that once or twice,too.
Forum Leader
Join Date: Dec 2008
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No, you are not being judgmental. If you do not want to be around someone who is active in addiction, that is your choice and your right. If she feels judged, that is all on her.
I think she is just trying to manipulate you into dropping this particular boundary.
I think she is just trying to manipulate you into dropping this particular boundary.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 451
I am not good at setting boundaries yet, but I am starting to detach and practice boundaries.
My take on it is if we don't set boundaries then we allow the disease and sickness to continue in our own lives which affects our own immediate families.
I think setting boundaries is making a judgement call rather than judging a person based on morality. Judging someone with a holier than thou attitude is much different than protecting our own emotional well being by making wise choices in how we deal with events that we allow to happen in our lives.
My take on it is if we don't set boundaries then we allow the disease and sickness to continue in our own lives which affects our own immediate families.
I think setting boundaries is making a judgement call rather than judging a person based on morality. Judging someone with a holier than thou attitude is much different than protecting our own emotional well being by making wise choices in how we deal with events that we allow to happen in our lives.
Climbing hills, flying down...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: By the Sea
Posts: 565
Wise words from all of you. Thank you. Part of me feels guilty, but I cannot go back to being enmeshed in her disease. I did that for many years, and it took its toll on both of us...sigh. This is so hard. I care about her and it hurts to see her suffering, but I know that it's up to her...she did it for awhile, so that's proof she can do it again, if she chooses to do so.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 433
There's a difference between "being judgmental" and "using good judgment". Drawing boundaries with an alcoholic is definitely good judgment.
Don't bother trying to tell them that, though. Because it's all your fault--everything is!
Don't bother trying to tell them that, though. Because it's all your fault--everything is!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 602
"You're being judgemental" is manipulation.
"How dare you object to cleaning up my excrement and vomit while I scream at you and take your money! You must be JUDGEMENTAL!"
Quackity quack quack. Quacky McQuackerson of Quackertown, PA.
"How dare you object to cleaning up my excrement and vomit while I scream at you and take your money! You must be JUDGEMENTAL!"
Quackity quack quack. Quacky McQuackerson of Quackertown, PA.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,937
Originally Posted by FarawayFromCars 
ASis says I'm being "judgmental" because I have set boundaries to refuse to engage in her behavior when she's drinking. She says that "I don't understand that she has a disease" and that I'm "judging her" by letting her know that I am uncomfortable with her drinking and setting a boundary (she is drinking = I do not have a relationship with her).
I think I've answered my own question by typing this out, but is this "judgmental"? Or more alcoholic quacking?
I think I've answered my own question by typing this out, but is this "judgmental"? Or more alcoholic quacking?
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
Wow can I relate to the name calling of being judgmental when you try and set a healthy boundary.
AH's entire family as well as himself, even when stone cold sober, berated me for years each time I tried to set a boundary. Told me I was cold, uncaring, manipulative etc... It's still something I struggle to not believe about myself because I was brainwashed for years that I was wrong (and since it was 5 against 1, how could I be right after all?).
The day it dawned on me that there was something VERY wrong was my younger D's second birthday. AH invited his A brother. A brother controls his mother, brother and sister with rage. They all appease him (like they do their A father) in order to try and pacify him. So, at my D's birthday party ABIL starts making racist remarks and wouldn't stop even with the shushing and pleading of my MIL. I walked up to him and told him that it either ended that instant or he was to get out of my house and stay out for good.
At that point, MIL and AH turned on me and told me I was so harsh toward ABIL and that if he never felt comfortable returning it was going to be my fault. Later, after everyone had left, AH told me that I needed to learn to keep my mouth shut and save my sanctimonious judging for my own family and again told me that if I had caused his brother to now not want to come to our house he'd never forgive me.
Anyway, that day opened my eyes to the fact that it is not just alcohol that makes people act insane. It's the dymanic of alcoholic families, secret keeping, tolerating the intolerable in the name of keeping the peace etc... It's all of that that causes A's and their families, drinking or not, to tell "normies" that setting limits about intolerable behavior isn't okay.
You're not the problem. You are not judgmental. But A's and their allies are experts at making "normal" reactions seem sick and sick reactions normal.
I'm so sorry you're dealing with this.
AH's entire family as well as himself, even when stone cold sober, berated me for years each time I tried to set a boundary. Told me I was cold, uncaring, manipulative etc... It's still something I struggle to not believe about myself because I was brainwashed for years that I was wrong (and since it was 5 against 1, how could I be right after all?).
The day it dawned on me that there was something VERY wrong was my younger D's second birthday. AH invited his A brother. A brother controls his mother, brother and sister with rage. They all appease him (like they do their A father) in order to try and pacify him. So, at my D's birthday party ABIL starts making racist remarks and wouldn't stop even with the shushing and pleading of my MIL. I walked up to him and told him that it either ended that instant or he was to get out of my house and stay out for good.
At that point, MIL and AH turned on me and told me I was so harsh toward ABIL and that if he never felt comfortable returning it was going to be my fault. Later, after everyone had left, AH told me that I needed to learn to keep my mouth shut and save my sanctimonious judging for my own family and again told me that if I had caused his brother to now not want to come to our house he'd never forgive me.
Anyway, that day opened my eyes to the fact that it is not just alcohol that makes people act insane. It's the dymanic of alcoholic families, secret keeping, tolerating the intolerable in the name of keeping the peace etc... It's all of that that causes A's and their families, drinking or not, to tell "normies" that setting limits about intolerable behavior isn't okay.
You're not the problem. You are not judgmental. But A's and their allies are experts at making "normal" reactions seem sick and sick reactions normal.
I'm so sorry you're dealing with this.
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
agree with everything above,
lots of people initially react uncomfortably to boundaries being drawn, alcoholic or not, and I know I don't always set them in the most helpful manner, especially if I'm emotional.
I think there is a difference between "what you are doing is wrong" (judgement) and "I don't want to be around you if you're doing that" (boundary), however I would say that IMO even if you were/are judging her that doesn't make the boundary any less valid: it's a protective mechanism for you.
and yes, don't bother trying to convince her otherwise, I've entirely stopped wasting my breath defending my actions, and it's very freeing.
lots of people initially react uncomfortably to boundaries being drawn, alcoholic or not, and I know I don't always set them in the most helpful manner, especially if I'm emotional.
I think there is a difference between "what you are doing is wrong" (judgement) and "I don't want to be around you if you're doing that" (boundary), however I would say that IMO even if you were/are judging her that doesn't make the boundary any less valid: it's a protective mechanism for you.
and yes, don't bother trying to convince her otherwise, I've entirely stopped wasting my breath defending my actions, and it's very freeing.
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
Originally Posted by akrasia
"You're being judgemental" is manipulation.
"How dare you object to cleaning up my excrement and vomit while I scream at you and take your money! You must be JUDGEMENTAL!"
Quackity quack quack. Quacky McQuackerson of Quackertown, PA.
"How dare you object to cleaning up my excrement and vomit while I scream at you and take your money! You must be JUDGEMENTAL!"
Quackity quack quack. Quacky McQuackerson of Quackertown, PA.
I love this Quacky McQuackerson! Say it ten times fast!
Beth
changeschoices said this, I forgot to credit her.
There's a difference between "being judgmental" and "using good judgment". Drawing boundaries with an alcoholic is definitely good judgment.
).It is nice to see you again FFC, despite the circumstances.
:ghug3
Beth
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
Actually the way I look at it is that I have the right to choose who I want to be around and when I want to be around them. Doesn't matter if they are drinking or not.
My life, my choices.
I am getting much more selfish in my recovery and I'm worth it.
Your friend,
My life, my choices.
I am getting much more selfish in my recovery and I'm worth it.
Your friend,
Forum Leader
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In my little piece of heaven
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Boundary setting was difficult for me, and definitely NEW territory. I finally learned that boundaries are about ME - what I will and will not accept, and what I will and will not do. Period
I learned in Al Anon that I didn't have to accept unacceptable behavior. Putting that into practice was a little more complicated. I remember saying to my exH (when he was in a full blown rage) that I didn't have to accept unacceptable behavior. He got right in my face - nose to nose - and snarled, "Yeah, well what are you going to DO about that? THAT sounds like a threat to me!!"
NOTE to self (as I did some deep breathing and chose to not reply at all) that my plan and boundaries needed a little more defining before I shared them out loud.
I learned a few things in those early days:
1) I could have a boundary and not tell anyone about it. After all, I remembered - boundaries are for ME.
2) My boundaries were not written in stone. They had some "give" in them as I became more comfortable with the concept.
3) When I DID state a boundary, it was very clear, it was only about me and what I would do:
"This behavior/situation is not OK for me. When this happens, I am going to do this." Often it was no more than hang up the phone, end a conversation, walk away into another room etc. It took all the blame away, it was not something that could be twisted around into being considered manipulative. It was boundary-cause-effect. "If this happens, which I have clearly said is NOT ok for me, then I will do this."
The hardest parts about setting boundaries for me? Stating them clearly and then following thru. And the most hard? NOT apologizing for how someone else felt when I was enforcing my own boundaries. If I set a healthy boundary, and HE crossed the line, and I took action to take care of myself and HE had icky feelings about that?
NOT MY PROBLEM or my responsibility. How someone else feels about me is their issue, and what other people think of me is really none of my business.
I learned in Al Anon that I didn't have to accept unacceptable behavior. Putting that into practice was a little more complicated. I remember saying to my exH (when he was in a full blown rage) that I didn't have to accept unacceptable behavior. He got right in my face - nose to nose - and snarled, "Yeah, well what are you going to DO about that? THAT sounds like a threat to me!!"
NOTE to self (as I did some deep breathing and chose to not reply at all) that my plan and boundaries needed a little more defining before I shared them out loud.
I learned a few things in those early days:
1) I could have a boundary and not tell anyone about it. After all, I remembered - boundaries are for ME.
2) My boundaries were not written in stone. They had some "give" in them as I became more comfortable with the concept.
3) When I DID state a boundary, it was very clear, it was only about me and what I would do:
"This behavior/situation is not OK for me. When this happens, I am going to do this." Often it was no more than hang up the phone, end a conversation, walk away into another room etc. It took all the blame away, it was not something that could be twisted around into being considered manipulative. It was boundary-cause-effect. "If this happens, which I have clearly said is NOT ok for me, then I will do this."
The hardest parts about setting boundaries for me? Stating them clearly and then following thru. And the most hard? NOT apologizing for how someone else felt when I was enforcing my own boundaries. If I set a healthy boundary, and HE crossed the line, and I took action to take care of myself and HE had icky feelings about that?
NOT MY PROBLEM or my responsibility. How someone else feels about me is their issue, and what other people think of me is really none of my business.
Climbing hills, flying down...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: By the Sea
Posts: 565
Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy
Anyway, that day opened my eyes to the fact that it is not just alcohol that makes people act insane. It's the dymanic of alcoholic families, secret keeping, tolerating the intolerable in the name of keeping the peace etc... It's all of that that causes A's and their families, drinking or not, to tell "normies" that setting limits about intolerable behavior isn't okay.
.
Climbing hills, flying down...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: By the Sea
Posts: 565
Originally Posted by CatsPajamas
1) I could have a boundary and not tell anyone about it. After all, I remembered - boundaries are for ME.
Originally Posted by CatsPajamas
The hardest parts about setting boundaries for me? Stating them clearly and then following thru. And the most hard? NOT apologizing for how someone else felt when I was enforcing my own boundaries. If I set a healthy boundary, and HE crossed the line, and I took action to take care of myself and HE had icky feelings about that?
NOT MY PROBLEM or my responsibility. How someone else feels about me is their issue, and what other people think of me is really none of my business.
NOT MY PROBLEM or my responsibility. How someone else feels about me is their issue, and what other people think of me is really none of my business.
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