EmmyG

I need to vent and maybe hear some words of encouragement/guidance. Although I think if I remove the blinders, the answer is clear. This is going to be long, but I'm mostly writing it for myself in a way. I don't really have anyone to talk to. I don't think my family has any interest in hearing it at this point. I'm so worried about what's going to happen to me and my babies. It's my fault that we're in this situation. I got married way too soon, and now they're paying for it.

My husband is a periodic binge drinker. We've been married five years (our anniversary is in a week. Yay another fun anniversary for me), and for the first three years of our marriage, he would go on drinking binges every 3-4 months. He's from a European country where heavy drinking is the norm. He's also dealing with traumatic experiences from his military experience (not US military), which he carries a lot of guilt about, which he's never dealt with.

He's my best friend, and a very likeable, charming person. Other women are always telling me how lucky I am, that he's so handsome and sweet. They don't know him when he's drunk. He's horrible when he drinks. Destructive, aggressive, angry, emotional...just a complete nightmare to deal with. Two years ago, I moved out for five months with our son. I moved back in after he agreed to treatment (he did about a month of rehab, but had trouble "relating" because he's not physically addicted to alcohol, according to him). After that, he went a year without drinking and then decided to "try having a couple of beers with my friends." That ended in disaster. We had friends over for dinner and I watched in horror as he downed not two beers, but probably 15 in the course of three hours. A week later, he came home at three in the morning after meeting up with one of our friends and started being verbally abusive toward me and scaring our son. When I went to pull our son away from him, he slapped me. I left. He begged me to take him back. I did. He promised not to touch alcohol ever again, that he was done trying to be "normal," and that he would no longer touch any mind-altering substances. I believed him, and the last year has been very peaceful. No drinking. He's been great to me, great to our two children, and very loving/supportive.

Cut to now. A few months ago, he told me his friend from home was planning a trip to the US and would like to visit us. I am very skeptical about it, but I agree to it. He reassures me that this friend is not a partier, that he's coming to see the family, not go out drinking. He also asks me to trust him, because this is one of the only friends from home who still has his number (he deleted any negative influences from his phone, supposedly). SO his friend gets here last weekend, and the first thing they do is go to LA for the day. Then he calls and says they have decided to go on a deep-sea fishing boat, and they're going to spend the night. I say fine, whatever, as long as you're not drinking. I go to my mother's for the night. Later that night, he calls me from home, says they decided to come home. He sounds drunk. He is emotional, saying that he wants to die, that he hates himself, etc. He denies it the next day, says it was weed, that it was a bad decision, but he didn't think it would affect him. He absolutely swears it wasn't alcohol.

I am devastated. I go home a few days ago and we talk. He says he is so sorry for doing weed, that he swears it won't happen again. He says if he drinks or does anything like that again, I will know he's a liar, and I can be justified in leaving him. This past Monday, he had to go out of town for work. His friend goes with him. I call him at the motel and we talk about everything. He tells me he will do anything to keep our family together and that he's so sorry for what he's put me through, and promises no drinking whatsoever. I call him to say goodnight a few hours later, and he's completely intoxicated. Slurring, emotional, not himself at all.

So this morning he calls me like nothing happened and asks if I'm okay. I tell him no and ask why he drank. He completely denies drinking and tells me how dare I doubt him or accuse him of lying. I am completely in awe that he's lying. I have a voice mail from him and he clearly sounds drunk. How can he deny it? I'm worried now, because in the past he's always admitted to it. I have no idea how he thinks I could believe that he wasn't drunk. I got my stuff together and my dad came and picked me and the kids up before he got back from out of town. When he got there and we weren't there, he called me screaming, saying I've abandoned him and that I am completely wrong, that he isn't lying.

I feel awful. I don't want to leave my home and my hopes for our future. Why does he have to ruin it? Things were going so well. We have a 9-month-old baby as well as our 4-year-old. I've been so hopeful and happy lately, and he's been so good with the boys. It's so hard that he's not like this except for a couple of times a year. But a couple of times a year is still too much. I can't deal with the constant worry and anxiety that this will happen. It's just ruining me. I don't want my kids to suffer. At the same time, it kills me to think of taking them away from him. Why do I feel guilty when he's the one doing this? Even after he was yelling at me in a drunken rage on the phone today, telling me that if I'm not there when he gets home he'll sleep with someone else, I still felt bad that he was coming home to an empty house. How screwed up is that? I still pity him and feel sad for his pain. Even though it feels like he doesn't care at all how it affects his family.

He's so nasty when he's like this. It's hard to understand that your partner, who is usually so kind and sweet and loving, can be this complete monster of a person. It's extremely sad. I'm at my parents' now (who have their own dysfunctional nightmare going on). This is just awful. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I know he's going to call me tomorrow and beg me to come home, and promise he'll do anything. Things have gotten better, they're better than they were when we first got married, but maybe I can never have a normal life with him. I don't think I can respect myself if I give him another chance. I don't want to be that mother who puts a man before her children or keeps them in an unstable environment because she's afraid of the consequences. When is it time to give up?

EnglishGarden

Your heartbreaking story is familiar to so many of us here. Your deep desire to remain married, to have a stable family, to just live a decent normal life and be good to your children....many of us wanted that, too.

But we married alcoholics who had lost control of their drinking. An alcoholic is an alcoholic for life, and without treatment or recovery through support groups like AA, the alcoholic is bound to drink again. If he doesn't--if he stays dry without counseling or spiritual fellowship--he is inevitably mean and depressed.

Many of us have been with alcoholics who somehow managed to stay dry for a period of months or even a couple years, but the disease was always active in them, and it gets worse over time, so when the binge finally comes, each binge is more severe than the ones previous.

You are not taking your children away from him nor are you abandoning him. He is experiencing the consequences of being a drunk--a drunk father, a drunk husband--and if you go back, you put your children at risk of emotional abuse, of riding in a car with a drunk driver (alcoholics cannot keep any promises about not driving drunk with their kids), and you become his enabler.

If you will go to an Al-Anon meeting you will find good literature there, especially the pamphlet "Alcoholism: The Merry-Go-Round of Denial". It describes the alcoholic and the alcoholic's family and relationships, and you will see your story in it. And you will learn what the right thing is to do. The right thing is painful but it is the only hope: you have to set firm boundaries and hold them.

Please read the links connected to the "Sticky" list on the opening page here, for more education and support. Your husband is an alcoholic and he will permanently be an alcoholic for the rest of his life. Your children's father will always be an alcoholic. So though you wish things were different, and this were not so, and everything could just return to normal, you will have to deal with that hard reality.

Many more here will offer you their words of experience and hope. It's very late....you will receive more responses tomorrow.

First things first: keep your children on a consistent schedule, protect them from drama and fighting and your tears. Next find a counselor and an Al-Anon meeting. You have some serious work to do. And recovering people can help you.

Hopeworks

Emmy G,

Welcome to SR. Many will stop by and share their own experience, strength and hope with you and as you come to understand more about the challenge of life with active addiction you will achieve more clarity in what choices you will make for yourself and your children.

You are in Act I of a 3 act play and you can only play your own part and your husband will choose how he plays out his part. English Garden mentioned Al-anon literature and the Merry Go Round of Denial and here is a link to a condensed version of that pamphlet Merry-Go-Round of DENIAL The full length version is worth tracking down and you should be able to get one and lots of other great literature and support on the subject at an al-anon meeting.

Please keep coming back as being able to communicate to others who understand what you are going through will be very helpful for you in the future. It was very, very helpful to me during the darkest days of my own struggles with an active alcoholic.

My best advice is what helped me find peace and serenity and true happiness one step at a time and one day at a time:

1: Read the stickies
2. Find an al-anon group... visit as many as you can to find the "right fit" .... get a sponsor and work the steps.
3. Read books on the subject... there are recommended titles in the stickies
4. Find a good counselor that is an expert in addiction as well as relationships ... ask around and don't be afraid to visit several to find the right one.
5. Visit this site and read the posts... I did it daily for over a year. it helped me enormously to "get a new pair of glasses" and a much healthier perspective in every area of my life.
6 Take care of you! Make time for yourself... don't neglect this (should be higher on list... they are not in order )

Katiekate

Hi Emmy, welcome, As EG and Hope have said there is a wealth of information and help out there for you. Please do yourself and your children a favor and seek support and help. YOu will find lots of support here , I'm so sorry you find yourself in this position, all of us here are living and recovering from the same thing you and your children are, you are among friends.

Sending you love, Katie

MarkstheSpot

Okay, as the 'him' in this, what I'm seeing here is someone who desperately wants to keep his family together, but still wants to be a normal drinker.

Look at the good: he's stopped drinking in front of you and the kids and has been dry for long periods. And when he is drinking, he's doing it away from home. I think that in his mind the problem is not his drinking as such, but its incompatibility with family life, and he's addressing that problem. He knows you don't see it that way, which is how come he's lying.

None of this should necessarily affect your decision-making however; I'm just trying to show you how he might be feeling.

LifeRecovery

Sorry double post.

LifeRecovery

Emma-

I was married to a periodic binge drinker for five years. He is a lovely person while sober, but became violent at times and hurtful, especially towards himself when drunk. He would often have what is called blackouts when drunk so he would not remember what had happened while he was drinking.

In addition I think the shame he felt when sober about his drinking helped contribute to the lies.

He also had had a lot of trauma in his life, it is only now over two years later that I realize that though I have sympathy for the trauma I did not see any other attempts at coping from him.....just drinking. For years I used his background as a reason that he drank (in part true), but he never made any actions about recovery....not ones that kept long-term at least.

His drinking might have only been every few months, but I was impacted from the thought of him drinking all the time. I walked on eggshells, I was anxious to not get him upset etc. So for me I am starting to understand that the drinker may have periodic episodes but the impact remains continuous.

Finally I did not cause it, but I did contribute to it by trying to make it all better. I never let him deal with the consequences of his drinking.

Take care of you. Al-Anon helped me a lot and reading/learning about addiction. I also am doing individual counseling.

dollydo

" I don't want to be that mother who puts a man before her children or keeps them in an unstable environment because she's afraid of the consequences."

I couldn't agree more, I am the product of an alcoholic home, it was pure h#ll, I wouldn't wish the experience on my worst enemy.

This is a progressive disease, without working a strong recovery program for life, it will get worse. There is no cure for this disease, it is only a matter of whether he is drinking or not.

Set the right example for your children, you are their future.

gunther84

Emma, your post really moved me. I am a alcoholic who recently became sober (3 days ago). My wife had no idea I was drinking as I did it while I was away from her during the week at work. However the bottom fell out for me recently and I had to come clean with her. She is very hurt but has promised to stand by me. I was previously sober for 7 years and I know what I have to do to get and stay sober. I had to get back to AA and that is exactly what I am doing. I've been to five meetings in 3 days and I plan on hitting at least one each day for the foreseeable future. This is what your husband needs to do as well. If he promises to not drink again and does not seek help, I am sorry to say they will only be empty promises because he will drink again. I hope for you, your children, and your husbands sake he starts going to AA meetings. I will keep you in my thoughts. Take care and good luck.

SoloMio

Emmy, as I was reading your post I was nodding in agreement with almost everything you said. You're experience matches mine to a T--almost. The charming guy, the women who think I'm SO lucky. The great guy when sober, but a nasty man when drinking. The lip service to change.

Now, think about this. You sound like you're in your 20s. I just turned 60. I could have written your post in my 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s. Darn it, I could write it today!

Not that things can't improve for you, but you can't base your decision HOPING they'll improve. You have to look at what you have today, and say, do I want to be writing this same post 30 years from now?

changeschoices

This is what happened to me. My AX could not deny that binge drinking was incompatible with his life with me and my kids. But he was still in denial about his drinking being a problem. So he started leaving me nights while the kids were at their dad's to go drink out of the house. He wanted it both ways.

Could I have lived with it? Sure. But what's the point? Alcohol would have always been the other woman in our relationship. Why would I sit home alone while he was out binge drinking, and then spend his "sober" time with him being hung over, anxious, depressed, and miserable? What a life. The times when my kids were at my dad's, the XA and I should've been going out to dinner and enjoying ourselves. But instead, I was sitting home alone.

Tuffgirl

Welcome EmmaG. Lots of great posts here already, so I won't ramble this time. I hope you continue reading here and maybe consider a few Al-anon meetings as well.

Keep coming back!
~T

atalose

I think you made a wise and healthy decision to get yourself and your children away from ground zero. I those blinders are coming off, we can’t UN-know what we know. It becomes more difficult trying to put them back on.

I think you have to keep asking yourself, do you want to raise 2 or 3 children. At this point his behavior with his childish threats are just that, childish. It’s one thing to physically extract yourself from the volatile situation it’s another to emotionally do it. Might want to think about NOT accepting his phone calls for a while to allow yourself some time to become emotionally detached from it all and better able to handle that part of it.

And keep reminding yourself that you don’t need to make any long term decisions today or even tomorrow. Just focus on YOU and take things one moment at a time.

EmmyG

Thanks for all of your thoughts. Sometimes I feel like no one could possibly understand what this craziness is like. I just want normality.

He called me and said he doesn't even remember most of the last few days. He said it's not a cop-out but to me it is. He said he will go to therapy immediately to figure out his problems and that he just wants to be a family.

I feel like I'm abandoning a sick person if I leave. But if I don't leave for good, what's the point of leaving at all. Is he just mentally ill, and the alcohol just an outlet he uses hen he can't take it anymore? Am I deserting him if I go when he's offering to get help? Is this all just typical of an alcoholic? I just want to go home. It's a bad environment at my parents'. But if I go home, I'm saying I accept his behavior.

dollydo

If he seeks recovery, stays sober for a year or more, then perhaps I would consider going back to him. If he wants a family he will do what he needs to do. If he doesn't, he won't.

He is just throwing words at you, they mean nothing...actions are the truth. Don't let him manipulate you, he is only doing what addicts do, say anything to get what he wants.

No one has ever figured out what came first, the chicken or the egg, was he mentally ill first...hence the drinking..or..did he become mentally ill due to the drinking...who knows...all we can realize is that addicts have a disease, one that has tenacles that adversly affect everyone they come into contact with.

Don't guilt yourself into making an irresponsible decision. Your children must be your prioty. If he wants recovery, he will persue it, you are not deserting him, he is an adult, allow him the diginity to become a responsible sober adult.

SoloMio

You don't leave to "get him better." You leave for your own sanity. And he can get help whether you're with him or not. You are NOT abandoning him.

I left for six weeks last year to get my own head in order. AH said he'd do anything not to f up our marriage. So he went to a therapist. When the therapist told him he needed to go to AA, he said he would go--just to make fun of the people there. He actually said that. Take-away: They can go through the motions but unless they want to get better for themselves, nothing will stick.

You deserve a good environment for your kids and for you. Sometimes you have to take all the junk out of the closet and live with some chaos to get there.

One step at a time. Start thinking about you, and stop assuming he can't live without you.

LifeRecovery

I spent most of the first six months after I said I wanted a divorce worried about my loved one. At one point during that we had gone out to dinner and he told me maybe I was "right" to be worried about his drinking. I was so relieved and struggled to feel like maybe I was at fault for his drinking. When I moved back into the house though after he moved out there were plenty of beer bottles in the recycling. It had nothing to do with me.

I was so worried about him that I never worried about me.

The Three Cs have helped me a lot
I did not cause it
I cannot control it
I cannot cure it.

Krys

I felt awful about leaving my abf when I knew he couldn't pay the bills, is sick, and hurt that I left. I didn't go back but I have not gone no contact yet. In the last few weeks I have heard apologies that sound sincere (and to some extent might be) and lots of promises. Being away has taught me something though...he talks a lot but has done nothing he said he would do. If he loses the condo we rent and ends up living in his parents basement I will feel bad for him, but HE did it to himself. He continues to live in denial and if he loses everything, including me it is not my fault. I told him what I need, it has been a month and he has done nothing. It doesn't mean he doesn't love me but it does mean he doesn't think he has a problem and all his words are just that...words. I cannot live with broken promises and lies, and I certainly don't want to live walking on eggshells and waiting for the other shoe to drop. Right now your husband is doing exactly what my abf is doing...lots of talking. I know you don't want to give up on the dream, but you and your children deserve a calm, normal life free of tension and fear. I think that because you are at your parents house and things there aren't ideal you are missing the comforts of home and the familiarity of the devil you know so to speak. I did the same thing, and still have a lot of moments when I want to go back, but talking to people here has opened my eyes to the fact that I am just uncomfortable because I am out of my comfort zone. If things are bad at your parents house try your best to find another alternative. He HIT you, that is never ok...please take care of yourself and your children

MarkstheSpot

Great post, Krys and sorry to cherry-pick that one bit, but I just wanted to say that I don't quite see the situation that way. To me it seems as though EmmyG's H has already done a lot, but his problem now is failing to recognise that he needs to finish the job. I hate to see this guy being written off when it seems (to me at least) that he's already made a tangible effort to do something about the problem. Yes we're right to demand that his promises be backed up by action, but he's demonstrated an ability to do exactly that in the recent past.

posiesperson

EmmyG,

I'm glad you've found us here at SR.

As I read your post, and some of the responses, it brought up a memory for me: my exA used to make a comment about a situation in another relationship I'd had...my exA's comment was, "That isn't love."

And you know, my exA was absolutely correct on that. It wasn't love. The story that I had told demonstrated something manipulative and gaslighting-esque. It's the proverbial mind-f**k, if you will.

Your H is doing the same thing: denying the drinking (you heard it, you know it to be true), minimizing (saying it was "weed," as if that's less of a problem for an addict such as himself), threatening (saying he will sleep with someone else if you don't come home--that one gives me great pause about his current behaviors), and his alternating behaviors of being "kind and sweet and loving." Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde.

Emmy, this isn't love. This sort of thing felt like love to me when I was in it, because it was a component of my life growing up (particularly the denial, which opened the door to everything else). You have made such brave steps forward in taking a stand. Your children will learn this from you: no matter what is happening, you are responding to a serious situation and NOT denying it.

If you H wants this relationship, then he will get into recovery in a serious way--not just by being dry, but by getting sober. And that is best achieved with the physical distance that you have so bravely created.

Keep coming back! We get it, and I'm sending you all kinds of hugs.

Oh, and by the way, that exA I was telling you about? One of the things that helped me remember why I was leaving that relationship was to recall the words, "That isn't love." Because there were plenty of not-loving-things that the disease brought into our relationship. I let go...it wasn't easy at the time, but I'm SO glad that I did. I feel a tremendous amount of gratitude for what I learned in that relationship about what I DON'T want in a partner.

Hugs,
posie