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Whether you believe or not I have to share...

Old 03-30-2012, 10:40 AM
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Whether you believe or not I have to share...

Many of you know I was so close to getting out.

I had a place to live, had money saved...and he found out I was planning to leave. He didn't drink, he didn't throw a tantrum and make my life hell...he said take what you need. He said I don't want you to go but I want you to be happy...and he fell apart...but he did not drink. He was kind and loving and stood by me even though it hurt him.

Then he told our children...and it broke him. I could hear it when he told me how hard it was and how after he hated me for making him have to do that but he realized it was HIM that forced me to do it. He didn't have to tell them, he could have left it to me...but he did. He did what was right...he stood up and took responsibility....

I have spent most of the past few days just barely hanging on...thinking I can do this..I have to do this...this IS the right thing...I have to save myself and these children...

and yesterday I got a touch of God's Grace.

I'm reading Joel Osteen's Be A Better You...and had gotten to the second to the last chapter..the whole time trying to really feel God's voice ...asking him to guide me...show me the way....and I set the book down and prayed....and

My cell rang. The girl at the other end had gotten a new phone and her contacts got all twisted up and she was trying to figure out numbers to names...and I realized who it was..as I didn't recognize the number or her name...and it was a girl I used to work with..had not spoken to her in over a year...

I asked her how she was...and she started telling me about how she had changed her life. She was always a firm believer in God...always communicated that through her words and actions but she started telling me about how she began to feel like her husband was mistreating her, leading her away from her path...that she began to hate him.

She told him and everyone else she was leaving him. She and her kids were preparing to go and her heart was broken. She went to talk and pray with her pastor and he said.... you are not perfect but YOUR FATHER loves you. If you love your husband the way God loves you...imperfections and all, if you can forgive the unforgivable...your husband will love you the same way...the bible says that.

So she prayed...and believed that she could save her family...and with God's Grace...she did. He began to love her and treat her the way she wanted to be treated..the way God loves us...

So...she's saying... I don't know why I'm telling you all this...I mean this is alot to share w/ someone when we havn't talked in over a year and weren't close friends...but God's telling me...I have to tell you. and I was crying. I told her what was going on in my life and how scared I was and how I had been praying for God to show me what I should do...

and she said....well...I think he just did. You have to go to your husband and tell him. You can't hide your hurt and pain anymore. You have to have faith that he is ready to lead you where you need to be. And you will trust him because God brought him to you and if both let God lead your family you will never go wrong....

and I swear to you on my children's lives that it was God's message...It was what I had prayed for...it was what I needed. I prayed and Thanked God for answering my prayers and I asked my husband to meet me so we could talk after work.

I cried and told him what happened...and I asked him to forgive me for not sharing what I felt or how hurt I was...and I thanked him for taking care of me when I couldn't and I told him while I never fully committed to him before...I was now. I would trust him and have faith in him because told me...he was ready to lead and we could make this right.

So we talked and we shared with each other how we had been hurt and wronged by each other, how it felt and how we could change that. We talked about our past, and our future...

and we together decided that failure is NOT an option. This is not the way God intended our family to be. We are doing a huge disservice to our children by not being the kind of parents that we should...

and while we have some work to do. We have some pretty heavy duty counseling and therapy for us and our family...and he has his AA program to work and I have my alanon program to work...
that we will be a united front.

We will stand proud of where we are today and will tell others how we got here. I know we aren't done yet...but I am so thankful my heart was open. That I was listening ...that I was praying for answers, for healing my broken heart....had I said.."hey, I'm at work...let me call you back"...I may have missed that message. I may not have had that opportunity to hear what God was telling me through my friend.

It's pride that stood in our way...it's pain and hurt but it can get better. It can be better than "enough"....
we can have an abundant life...together ...if we keep a common goal in mind and that is to live our lives the way God wants us to live. With hope, faith and love for one another.

This wasn't easy to share...and some of you are going to sit back and just shake your heads and say "she was sooo close!"....but I'm telling you I'm not crazy. I'm not just looking to hear what I wanted to hear...I believe w/ every fiber of my being that I was meant to hear that message. And it was meant to be shared when I asked for help from Him.

I don't know how to explain it. But it's right....it feels right. It's not the "we go to what we know" kinda feeling of comfort...it's uncomfortable sharing how I feel w/ my husband and while it hurts..it's scary and difficult...it still feels like I'm doing right. Because my family is worth saving.
My relationship ...God didn't just send me someone...he sent me the right man when I needed it, and he delivered him right to my front door...and I need to trust that the answers are bigger than me and I don't need to know what the plan is...I just need to go with the flow and have some faith that everything will be okay.

so.... at my house..we will serve The Lord...and He will lead us to where we need to go.

and for the first time in a very very very long time...I am happy. I have what I need and what I want. I see a change in my husband and it is only God himself that could have done that. He changed my heart too. I can act on faith now that we will be okay. We will follow where God leads us and in that faith there is a promise that He will care for us.

I hope that this helps someone. Who would have thought a mixed up phone call would have delivered me God's Grace? But it did. And it changed my life.
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Old 03-30-2012, 11:09 AM
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Well, I will be the first to say that God works in mysterious ways and I've heard of several people turning their lives around when they found the Lord. I am to a believer even though I get discouraged at times and there are many things that pull at me daily and try to veer me away from God but I do know where to turn when it seems there is no hope. I have seen it go both ways...and I pray in your case it's for the better.

I am very understanding in your situation and hopefully it will work out totally different for you than it did for me but my XAH decided he was going to turn his life around and quit drinking, get in church, find the holy spirit, and be cured...I went along with him. Yes, we need to go to church and we need to try to build on our relationship with God and of course "all things are possible through Jesus Christ" so I had a renewed faith in him and in the hope that we could overcome this monster that was destroying us.

Well, I got baptised about 2 months into our church going and I was really beginning to feel good about things. He worked construction and was only home on the weekends so he could always remain sober for 2 days...no big deal for him. He somewhat had the wool pulled over my eyes because I thought he was really overcoming this demon he'd been battling so long but my gut instinct told me differently. I knew he was still drinking but I didn't want to accept it or believe it. I wanted to believe that he was getting just as much out of church as I was but it turned out to be a charade. Needless to say, he got baptised a few wks after I did--getting in front of he whole congregation and confessing his sins, that he was an alcoholic, that it was time to do different in his life, and so on and so forth and I stood beside him the first time. After all this, about 3 wks after he was baptised, he fell off the wagon and stayed drunk for 4 days straight. Went to church the following Sunday and got up in front of the whole church confessing his sins and how horrible he felt and so on and so forth (I didn't stand beside him that time because I knew it was a pity trip)...he last about 3 days afterwards.

I was so embarassed...that was the last time I walked through the doors of that church. I never thought someone could embarass someone so bad in the Lord's house but he made me want to crawl in a hole and never come out again. I just wanted to let you know that there length that an alcoholic won't go to manipulate you just to buy them some more time.

Just be careful and best of luck in your journey!
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Old 03-30-2012, 11:21 AM
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I believe everything you said in your post. I'm not a uber-religious person myself but I have felt the guidance of God in my life when I needed it most...or when I took the time to listen.
I hope this is a new beginning for you and your family. Best wishes. Thelma
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Old 03-30-2012, 11:28 AM
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I'm so sorry.

but the key is...he didnt do a thing. He was willing to let me go..peacefully.

it was me that put the brakes on and went to him ...

it was ME that heard and felt the message.

He I think, is still in shock.

I know the manipulating ways and drama ...btdt with him many times but this is different...because it's not coming from him...it's coming from me...and he was going to let us go...because he trusted me. He trusted that it was what I needed...and even though he was worried...he still gave me support even though he didnt want us to leave .... I don't know what to tell you. I've seen alot. heard alot..from him but I've never ever felt like I did yesterday when we talked.
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Old 03-30-2012, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by LoveAllGone View Post
Well, I just wanted to let you know that there length that an alcoholic won't go to manipulate you just to buy them some more time.

Just be careful and best of luck in your journey!
When I left my XAH, he promised me the same so I came back, he said he will change and will go to church with me, we talk to the bishop and he promised everything I wanted in front of him, AH did stay sober for a year, however he went to church with me for just a couple of times, a year later he asked me for a divorce, we got divorced and then he got drunk, again.

It will be awesome if you two can make it work, best luck to you, you deserve it.
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Old 03-30-2012, 11:49 AM
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Around work we like to say, "Trust, but verify."
Do what you feel is the right thing.

That said, if I were in your position I wouldn't spend that money you saved up - I'd keep that available.

If things turn south again, you have what you need.
And if things get better and you two work out... well, you never know when having some money in an emergency fund will be a lifesaver!
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:22 PM
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I'm happy for you. To everybody else I say, for the love of God please don't use this post as an excuse or rationale for making incredibly horrible decisions related to your situation with your alcoholic. Each situation is different, and this may in fact work out for her.

My biggest fear is that somebody reading this, who has clearly demonstrated that the only reason they are on this board is to find support for their bad decisions past, present, and future, and has demonstrated zero introspection relative to their part in it, will latch on to this as their rational to hold on while being dragged through hell when all they have to do to save themselves is let go.

When God gives you 100 reasons to leave, and only one reason to stay, why is it that people only hear the one reason and not the 100?

Take what you want and leave the rest.

Cyranoak
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:49 PM
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You know, I really don't think I even know how to react to this line of "thought', but I do feel the NEED to respond here. I have been on this site for several months now, I read, pray, cry and laugh with everyone here. I may not always reply to posts but all of you here touch my life and guide me in decisions daily. I'm so grateful...

Blwn - all I can say is God bless you. I will pray for you and your 3 babies. And please God, if your listening, Help us all, alcoholism sucks
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Old 03-30-2012, 03:43 PM
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She told him and everyone else she was leaving him. She and her kids were preparing to go and her heart was broken. She went to talk and pray with her pastor and he said.... you are not perfect but YOUR FATHER loves you. If you love your husband the way God loves you...imperfections and all, if you can forgive the unforgivable...your husband will love you the same way...the bible says that.
This is painful for me to read. Although it is a beautiful idea, life doesn't always work that way. To share my experience, I loved my XABF incredible amounts. I still do. He is an abusive, violent, manipulative addict. I have tried to forgive the unforgivable. I have tried to fix him with love. I have tried until it nearly drove me insane, until I was in real danger. I suspect although God will love me unconditionally, my 22 month old daughter would find me much more helpful if I was alive and not putting us both in danger. I find it difficult to accept that the church and the bible give such advice which can sometimes be incredibly dangerous. Just my thoughts anyway!
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Old 03-30-2012, 03:59 PM
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I hope that this "new" message from God works out for you and your children, however, if it doesn't, you may want to have a back up plan in place.
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:02 PM
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I want everyone to know...I'm the one that always says....go, run for your life...when we get a newbie w/ a short time in the relationship. I am NOT saying...okay just pray. love your spouse ...and forgive...and everything will be all glitter and rainbows.

I'm just telling you what happened to ME. In my situation...and while I know it's a longshot...even in recovery it's hard....I was praying for answer. I was asking for help...and while to some it was just a random call...to me it was Grace.
and I'm not going to walk away and just chalk it up to coincidence. Because it wasn't...
I don't know where we go from here but I know that if he's willing to do his work, and I'm willing to do mine...we can be happy together. I know that because I heard it...when I asked and prayed....

I do not want ANYONE to say...omg it worked for her...let me stay w/ my still active A who beats me and terrorizes my kids daily...I'll just pray. NO. That is not it. I still say run like hell. Find safety...then pray.

I shared not so I could hear everyone tell me I'm nuts. That people can't change. That we can't be happy and our A don't deserve happiness...

I shared because ..I believe people CAN change. We did. None of us were born codies! We gradually changed into the sick little puppies we are..and with some work...and a program we can change. I believe if we can change, so can they!

I want a good life. I want peace and love. I, more than anything want my husband to be the man I know he CAN be and was meant to be. There is no sin in praying for that, hopeing for that...or for believing it CAN happen.
I for one am not so much of a control freak that I am going to ignore the answer to my prayer.
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:16 PM
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CHANGE brings CHANGE

as long as everyone is on the same page and change is that one persons choice...i agree here that it may work and without resentments....

today i am glad that your A is imbracing AA and everyone else is working a RECOVERY program ...

((hugs)) god bless
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:25 PM
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"Because my family is worth saving".... that line said it all to me. May God bless you and your family!
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:59 PM
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AA was founded by a man who had a spiritual epiphany. It was a visitation from the Divine, according to Bill W., that changed him in an instant, in a flash of light. His experience of direct contact with God, as Bill W. understood God, changed the history of the world. And the 12 Step program is based on the faith that it is the Divine...God....the Holy Spirit....the restoring of the lost soul through communion with a higher power and humble service to others....that can save an alcoholic from his obsession.

Recovery in AA begins with faith. It is sustained by work.

Your AH has organic brain matter which has been physically altered by the disease of addiction.

Bill W. called alcoholism "an allergy to alcohol." And an uncontrollable obsession of the mind and an uncontrollable compulsion to drink.

He saw two truths: 1. God can indeed remove the obsession and the compulsion. 2. That the organic disorder of addiction --the allergy-- will remain, so the alcoholic must do his part.

What happens next in your AH's story relies entirely upon him.

Continue to take good care of yourself, and with you both working vigorous daily programs of recovery, the spiritual epiphany of today can become a practicing way of life.

Pray to God. Row to shore.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by dollydo View Post
I hope that this "new" message from God works out for you and your children, however, if it doesn't, you may want to have a back up plan in place.
I agree...I left but didn't divorce even though we came this [ ] close A LOT!

Trust in knowing your path. But also trust in knowing there is an alternate path. I didn't know if I was in the eye of the storm or if the storm had passed for now. Didn't know that for a long time. My back up plan stayed firmly tucked in my back pocket.

Best wishes on this journey! Always do what is right for you!
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Old 03-30-2012, 06:44 PM
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Continue to take good care of yourself, and with you both working vigorous daily programs of recovery, the spiritual epiphany of today can become a practicing way of life.

Pray to God. Row to shore.
Wow, EnglishGarden, you really have a gift.
Thank you so much.

blwninthewind,

I wish the very best for you.


Beth
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Old 03-30-2012, 07:17 PM
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I'm sorry but the more I read this the more I come to the conclusion of magical thinking. In my opinion you are picking those events that fit with what you want to be true and focusing on them. If I only do x more and if he only does y more then everything will be OK. I recognize it because I did the same thing over and over again.

It might just be that you are not ready to leave yet and you have to make one more try.

For me I couldn't leave until the pain of staying was greater than the pain of leaving.

I wish for the best for you and your family. It would be nice to read about things working out.

Good luck.

Your friend,
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:10 PM
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"... and for the first time in a very very very long time...I am happy."

and there are no safety issues

I believe God loves you and wants you to be happy. It is my belief that it is his will and for reasons one may never know, your life was and is what it is.

It is also my belief that once you as an individual put your faith in God, you will find peace and happiness no matter which direction your life goes.

Thank you for sharing.
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Old 03-31-2012, 03:17 AM
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ach, this makes me uneasy. synchronicities are not necessarily divine.

nevertheless, i hope your intuition is correct and that your man is as willing to change and grow as you are. you are educated about this disease, you know what to look for. you can wholeheartedly give this one more try whilst continuing to set boundaries and work on your own recovery.

i understand you are being honest and open with him. but is he stepping up also? for example, did he own up to hacking into your SR account?
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Old 03-31-2012, 06:50 AM
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Hi Blwn in the Wind,

I took my A back several years ago because there were clear "signs" from God that I was supposed to give him another chance. Strangely enough it was a very odd phone call from someone who I barely knew but had been a close childhood friend of my then XA. She was distraught and crying and was certain my XA was going to die soon (he was in Vegas on a bender at the time) and I was no contact with him. He had called her in error (he had been trying to call his mother from memory). It was all very weird.

That night I had a bizarre dream where I very vividly saw my XA get hit by a car on the strip and he died and he was buried in the desert. Now I am wondering if God is trying to tell me something. I didn't have any contact information for my X (he had lost his cellphone) and so I shrugged it all off. Then my phone rang it was my XA's exwife who was asking me about him and then her phone had a call come in and it was the XA who gave exwife his contact number to give me.

So... thinking that God was directing all these bizarre events somehow I had a conversation with my XA who was drunk at the time and told me how he had almost gotten killed by a car on the strip the night before but had jumped over the hood just in time. Now... God appears to be confirming that there is some divine intervention going on and I once again attempted to help my XA get sober.

Now my XA is a believer and when he is on the straight and narrow counsels with his pastor/psychologist but when he is on a bender jumps right in the fire with the devil. I won't go into the ridiculous and crazy stories of his on again and off again sobriety and relapses and times or "real recovery" which sadly were always temporary although successful.

Now fast forward... my silver tongued XA whom I rescued from the devils playground is back out there AGAIN... despite all that we have been through and the clear bounaries I have always set he chose to go back out there.

Now... how are things going for him? Great... he is living it up in suites, gambling everyday and according to him he cannot lose. In fact, last night he was terribly frightened and weeping in a vm he left me because he is certain it is the devil himself who is providing him clairvoyantly with the what cards are going to fall or what teams are going to win when he bets sports.

Everything the devil offers to the addict is at his feet and yesterday he was talking about jumping off the balcony (he didn't mean a word it was more manipulation) because he is seeing how meaningless it all really is after 6 weeks out there (his longest Vegas bender was 8 weeks before this one).

My XA claims he loves God, loves me, loves his kids and family and yet he is in Vegas today even though he is positive God intervened in his life 2 years ago in Vegas. So why do they do this? The Bible says a dog returns to his own vomit and so a doubleminded man will be tempted in the same manner.

Our Christian faith (and I am talking to the OP who has indicated she knows her HP as Jesus so please do not be offended if that is not your own unerstanding) is not based on feelings it is based on the Word of God. We know scientifically that at the root of feelings is chemicals and hormones released in our brains... we are hardwired to attach to our mate and we are actually hardwired for faith in God... it is by design.

AA and the steps are completely biblical in their roots and both lifestyles are programs of action. If you are not moving forward and growing as a believer and someone in recovery you are sliding backwards. That is what happened to my XA despite his "good intentions, his firm belief God intervened in his life and his feelings". He did not continue to follow up with his spiritual life and accountibility to someone to disciple/sponsor him through the needed growth out of addictive thinking and life patterns.

The Bible teaches that we are expected to grow up spiritually and recovery teaches that we are to grow up by doing the hard work of the steps and continuing to grow spiritually in steps 10,11 and 12. My XA didn't do that and that neglect doomed him to repeat his same mistakes and he fully believes that he is now battling the devil who wants to kill him out there.

He wants me to fly out and "save him" again... but when will he grow up and put on his own spiritual armor and do his own battles and find his own way out?

He won't if I or someone else keeps doing it for him.

God's relationship to Israel was always described by God as a marriage. We are the "bride of Christ". But when Israel turned her back on God and sinned against him he didn't run after her with a broom, dustpan, a fire extinguisher, a bag of huggies and a crying towel like we codies do for our husbands.

Jesus didn't run after the rich young ruler and give him another offer or suggest he try a different flavor or denomination!

NO... God sets boundaries. And when his bride whom HE LOVES he seperates Himself and lets them learn their own lessons about consequences. It was not pretty for Israel but when she surrendered, repented and demonstrated that with action God was the one who forgave over and over again and restored her as his bride.

There is NOTHING wrong or unbiblical about a redemptive seperation or even divorce from a husband or wife who has been living a life of sin and disobedience. One does not have to immediately change what are extremely healthy plans to seperate physcially during a time of SURRENDER, spiritual growth, learning and seeking God.

When true remorse, repentence and action is demonstrated with evidence of psychic change and not just talk and feelings then coming back together as a couple in the same residence could be considered.

Why reward the offending spouse with what they desire the most before anything is done except giving more promises?

We all love goosebumps and my XA says I am an "emotion commotion" girl (he loves liturgical and formal services... pretty funny considering that I am the more serious and contemplative one who loves a lively church and he is the drunk in Vegas who loves a quiet church!

Goosebumps, incredible coincidences, feelings and even tearful pronouncements of love can all be GREAT ... but at the end of the day they are just feelings and words unless there becomes a program of DAILY action, daily surrender, daily prayer and meditation, daily accountibility to a spiritual mentor/discipler/sponsor who knows addiction and the Word of God by both of you.

Our HP is a God of Covenants... the Old Testament and the New Testament are both covenants... agreements between God and man. God is quite clear about things and so should we be quite clear about what we expect.

On this messageboard we call it boundaries and when our A's agree on a recovery plan of action it becomes a covenant.

Maybe it is time you and your A talk about what God may be telling you both about what it will look like for you to reconcile ... a covenant of action and a three party contract with both of you and the God you believe is leading you.

Put it in writing. Have someone help you evaluate and come up with a spiritual treatment plan that you trust understands addiction.

Put target dates and daily requirements for action. Make sure there is accountibility partner for your husband to pray with and be completely transparent with on a weekly basis. Bible studies, AA meetings, church attendence, family time for prayer... all of these things should be considered.

Have a plan B... I thought God had it all mapped out and my A would be leading missionary trips by now but he is gambling in Vegas. Life is uncertain especially with addiction.

That being said...my A is still battling his addiction but HE is battling it now. I know the lessons I learned were for ME and I am getting very healthy emotionally, spiritually and in every other way!!!!!

so yes... God may be speaking to you both but you may be still hearing what you want to hear!!! You want to hear the fairy tale and that God is waving his magic wand and sending angels to miraculously heal your marriage and change your husband. But God wants us to learn to listen and obey to His Word...they are where the life and healing and the WAY OUT really are!

He wants us... addicts included... to grow up, put on their own spiritual armor and learn how to be live in a broken world and be a LIGHT not a parasite who drains everyone around them!

Know this is long... but I hope my experience gives you some perspective and helps you come own out of the clouds long enough to consider you are in a great position to set some BOUNDARIES!!!!

Praying for you... remember ALL things work together for good for those who love the Lord!
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