Need Advice for FAA
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
My heart is with Anvil here. Call CPS. And also, I don't know what the law is in Ohio, but in many states, if you're above the legal driving limit, you're also too drunk to care for a child. Frightening as it is, the next time you see your SIL fall down and her kids help her up on your street -- call the police. Tell them you are trying to help these children because both their parents are alcoholics and you simply think they are neglected and in danger.
It's frightening as hell to call the police on family. Yet, those children have nobody else. Their parents don't protect them. Your wife doesn't.
I think sometimes about what situation my kids would be in if I died now. If they were forced to live with an alcoholic parent full-time, I would hope that someone -- a neighbor, a teacher, a coach, someone at church -- would call the cops and CPS.
It's frightening as hell to call the police on family. Yet, those children have nobody else. Their parents don't protect them. Your wife doesn't.
I think sometimes about what situation my kids would be in if I died now. If they were forced to live with an alcoholic parent full-time, I would hope that someone -- a neighbor, a teacher, a coach, someone at church -- would call the cops and CPS.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 91
Please, please, get those girls out of the house into a safe place. Can you take them? Call your local Family Services and explain. In our area a drunk parent is not allowed to have children in the home. I cannot imagine the terror these poor little girls are going through. You have to help them. They can't be their parents caretakers.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,754
I have been thinking about these children since I read this post.
My question is, why does anyone care if the kids tell their parents anything. I remember being those kids, with my brothers, lost , scared, thinking that my father was going to kill the whole family, not understanding any of it, not understanding why no one, including my mother never did anything to protect me from the terror of dealing with a violent biligerent alcoholic.
Why would anyone care what two unfit parents would think about anyone who tried to intervene in a sick and hopeless situation and get those kids out of there. When I was 9 years old I took a shot gun out of my fathers hands, he was going to kill my brother, no child should have that responsibility.
Those children are being wounded and scarred everyday, they are hurting to the core of their being, they should be the number one priority. Family takes care of family, when it comes to children, they come first. I'm sorry, really I am , for the rant, but this is upsetting beyond belief. The parents of those children should be jailed, asap. Don't be someone who turns their back on those kids because of what those idiots might think, who cares.
My question is, why does anyone care if the kids tell their parents anything. I remember being those kids, with my brothers, lost , scared, thinking that my father was going to kill the whole family, not understanding any of it, not understanding why no one, including my mother never did anything to protect me from the terror of dealing with a violent biligerent alcoholic.
Why would anyone care what two unfit parents would think about anyone who tried to intervene in a sick and hopeless situation and get those kids out of there. When I was 9 years old I took a shot gun out of my fathers hands, he was going to kill my brother, no child should have that responsibility.
Those children are being wounded and scarred everyday, they are hurting to the core of their being, they should be the number one priority. Family takes care of family, when it comes to children, they come first. I'm sorry, really I am , for the rant, but this is upsetting beyond belief. The parents of those children should be jailed, asap. Don't be someone who turns their back on those kids because of what those idiots might think, who cares.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 119
As an adult I've heard stories about how everyone in my small town use to talk about my drunk parents and feel sorry for me.
The fact that NO ONE stood up for me infuriates me more then then fact my parents were drunks. My parents were sick, but all my aunts, uncles, neighbors, have no excuse for not helping other then coming off as "the bad guy". Sure it probably would have pissed my parents off, but I think if SONEMONE, ANYONE would have been the first to stand up for me they would have been backed up by the whole community, and they may have been the "bad guy" to some people, but they would have been my HERO. My salvation, would have made me feel like I was worth SOMETHING. Instead of spending the next 20 years feeling worthless and self destructive.
The fact that NO ONE stood up for me infuriates me more then then fact my parents were drunks. My parents were sick, but all my aunts, uncles, neighbors, have no excuse for not helping other then coming off as "the bad guy". Sure it probably would have pissed my parents off, but I think if SONEMONE, ANYONE would have been the first to stand up for me they would have been backed up by the whole community, and they may have been the "bad guy" to some people, but they would have been my HERO. My salvation, would have made me feel like I was worth SOMETHING. Instead of spending the next 20 years feeling worthless and self destructive.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 13
An Update, and thanks to all who responded
This past Friday, with the help of my wife, other brother in law, and myself, my alcoholic brother in law has checked himself into a detox/rehab treatment facility. He has admitted he is an alcoholic and needs help.
Futher good news is that all my in laws no realize (finally) that he is an alcoholic and is in need of professional help (why it took so long I dont care at this moment)
Now the bad news. Since this is a voluntary admission he can check himself out at anytime. His insurance covers inpatient treatment for 30 days. He has been in 4 days, and now indicates he is going to stay for 4 or 5 more days before checking himself out, and continuing with intense outpatient treatment, against the adive of myself and all my inlaws.
Should we support this approach?
Futhermore, it seems he is fixated on his wife (who has a severe drinking problem of her own). All he basically talks to us about when he calls is whether any of us has spoken to her. We have but we really don't talk to her about my brother in laws status or her own. We believe that she does not want him back, no matter what, and that she will only attend one counselling session with him. I see this fixation as a bad omen.
I sincerely appreciate all your advice and guidance, your responses and advice have helped more than you know
Futher good news is that all my in laws no realize (finally) that he is an alcoholic and is in need of professional help (why it took so long I dont care at this moment)
Now the bad news. Since this is a voluntary admission he can check himself out at anytime. His insurance covers inpatient treatment for 30 days. He has been in 4 days, and now indicates he is going to stay for 4 or 5 more days before checking himself out, and continuing with intense outpatient treatment, against the adive of myself and all my inlaws.
Should we support this approach?
Futhermore, it seems he is fixated on his wife (who has a severe drinking problem of her own). All he basically talks to us about when he calls is whether any of us has spoken to her. We have but we really don't talk to her about my brother in laws status or her own. We believe that she does not want him back, no matter what, and that she will only attend one counselling session with him. I see this fixation as a bad omen.
I sincerely appreciate all your advice and guidance, your responses and advice have helped more than you know
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
Originally Posted by eaglegroup 
Should we support this approach?
AXH completed more of his 28-day in-patient program than a few days (HUGE assumption on my part), but failed to provide any documentation of completion to the court (divorce and custody proceedings), so I'm guessing he left early. He flat out refused to continue with the out-patient aftercare program because 'they were rude to [him]' and he's 'not like those people.'
I wouldn't be surprised if his participation in the out-patient program lasts about as long as the in-patient program.
Wishing you and your family peace and continued strength.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 13
Furhter update
My wife and I sat down and discussed this situation in full. Not only has my brother in law decided his release from the inpatient treatment program, the treatment program is also in agreement with his discharge and out patient treatment. We have decided to support him, on two conditions; ) and most importently, he remains sober and 2) his total compliance with the out patient treatment plan.
I so thank all of you for your advice and your concern, and I plan to keep you all updated as the many issues he faces tanspire.
Thank you one and all
I so thank all of you for your advice and your concern, and I plan to keep you all updated as the many issues he faces tanspire.
Thank you one and all
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 13
Further Update
My alcoholic brother in law did indeed check himself out of treatment this past friday. He has been attending AA meetings and has got a sponsor. His outpatient treatment was to begin last night, but when he arrived, he claims the treatment facility inidicated they did not have room for him. He came home and went to an AA meeting.
His wife and kids went out of town for the week, so atleast this issue and pressure will not be around this week.
We had Easter Sunday at my mother in laws house. My mother in law refused to tell everyone that no alcohol was to be brought. So, of course my other sister in law and other brother in law did bring and consume wine, with all of us there, including my alcoholic brother in law.
Some things I just don't understand
His wife and kids went out of town for the week, so atleast this issue and pressure will not be around this week.
We had Easter Sunday at my mother in laws house. My mother in law refused to tell everyone that no alcohol was to be brought. So, of course my other sister in law and other brother in law did bring and consume wine, with all of us there, including my alcoholic brother in law.
Some things I just don't understand
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 13
Response to Florence
Florence,
We were with my, so far sober, ABIL and his kids (no wife) on Easter. For the first time, in a long time, his kids were actually ok that day. There were not acting up or out of control, as they have been.
We are doing ok. My wife has finally realized this is a huge problem. I have asked her what she would do if her brother started drinking again, and she states that she would be done with him (easier said than done), but time will tell.
Thanks for your response and your concern. And thanks to all for your support. You should all be billing me, as you are the only ones I can turn to to keep my head on straight
We were with my, so far sober, ABIL and his kids (no wife) on Easter. For the first time, in a long time, his kids were actually ok that day. There were not acting up or out of control, as they have been.
We are doing ok. My wife has finally realized this is a huge problem. I have asked her what she would do if her brother started drinking again, and she states that she would be done with him (easier said than done), but time will tell.
Thanks for your response and your concern. And thanks to all for your support. You should all be billing me, as you are the only ones I can turn to to keep my head on straight
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Litchfield Park, AZ
Posts: 317
I was out walking around thinking about your situation, and came back and read the last several post about your BIL entering treatment, leaving treatment, etc.
I was thinking about all the people who suggested that you try Al-Anon, and I was thinking that Al-Anon might not be the right place for you to get help, but now I think that I was wrong.
This isn't over. Your BIL's recovery is fragile (a lot of people relapse). Your SIL is likely an alcoholic, (more likely than not in my opinion). The kids are still at risk. Your extended family is a little more awake than they were, but still in denial.
Al-Anon is mostly for people who are affected by those who drink. Maybe you haven't been directly affected by the drinking, but man, are you surrounded by it! I think that in the coming days, weeks, months and years as this drama plays itself out, the support and insight you could get from participating in an Al-Anon program would be very useful.
People who are attending their first Al-anon meeting are told to attend at least 6 meetings. This is partly because each meeting is different, but I think it's also because it takes some time to figure out why a group of people sitting around sharing stories and not giving advice is going to be useful to you. But it does work, and it does help. It's worth 6 hours of your life to check it out...and even if you don't think you need it now, it's a great resource, maybe for some of those other members of your family who maybe do need what the program offers.
I was thinking about all the people who suggested that you try Al-Anon, and I was thinking that Al-Anon might not be the right place for you to get help, but now I think that I was wrong.
This isn't over. Your BIL's recovery is fragile (a lot of people relapse). Your SIL is likely an alcoholic, (more likely than not in my opinion). The kids are still at risk. Your extended family is a little more awake than they were, but still in denial.
Al-Anon is mostly for people who are affected by those who drink. Maybe you haven't been directly affected by the drinking, but man, are you surrounded by it! I think that in the coming days, weeks, months and years as this drama plays itself out, the support and insight you could get from participating in an Al-Anon program would be very useful.
People who are attending their first Al-anon meeting are told to attend at least 6 meetings. This is partly because each meeting is different, but I think it's also because it takes some time to figure out why a group of people sitting around sharing stories and not giving advice is going to be useful to you. But it does work, and it does help. It's worth 6 hours of your life to check it out...and even if you don't think you need it now, it's a great resource, maybe for some of those other members of your family who maybe do need what the program offers.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
the only advice i have really is that child protective services ought to be involved and if you haven't called them already, please do so asap. i can't imagine why your brother in law and his wife aren't both in jail already but they sure as heck are endangering those kids lives everyday it sounds like
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 13
Response to all advisors
Al-Anon meetings i am looking into. I do know several experts in the alcohol addiction field (counselors, probation officers, and certified alcohol counsellors). I have contacted them, and they too offer me advice ( I was a probation officer first out of college). One such professional was able to help me secure the bed for my abil. The first treatment center my wife and abil contacted had a 7 day waiting list. Through my contacts we were able to get him in a program immediately (the old adage, it is not what you know, but who you know sure helped out here).
Regarding CPS. I have consulted with many of legal professionals and gave them the details of the issues with my darling little nieces. Across the board, they indicate without an proof of neglect or abuse, CPS will not open an investigation, and if I keep pestering them, they will soon begin to ignore me.
I really really appreciate all your shoulders to lean on and your ears to bend. Please keep it coming.
As someone aptly pointed out, my abil issues and family issues, is going to be a constant drama for sometime to come
Regarding CPS. I have consulted with many of legal professionals and gave them the details of the issues with my darling little nieces. Across the board, they indicate without an proof of neglect or abuse, CPS will not open an investigation, and if I keep pestering them, they will soon begin to ignore me.
I really really appreciate all your shoulders to lean on and your ears to bend. Please keep it coming.
As someone aptly pointed out, my abil issues and family issues, is going to be a constant drama for sometime to come
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 13
An Update to all
My ABIL is now in intensive outpatient treatment and adhering to the treatment plan. On days he is not attending treatment he is attending AA meetings and has even gotten a sponsor. His spirits are good. His thought processes are good. Life for him is so much better. His wife is still a major concern of all of ours, but one issue at a time. My ABIL is so much more attentive to his kids, his family and his work.
Yes, for today, all is good
Yes, for today, all is good
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 13
theuncertainty
Things are better, the drama is no longer. There are still issues with all the inlaws, regarding alcohol at family functions. This past Easter there was a dinner held at my mother in laws house. She refused to inform all parties of no alcohol. But to my amazement, the only ones consuming alcohol was my other brother in law and his wife. We're getting there.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 237
I was thinking about your situation too. I have to agree with the other posters whose main concern is for the children. And I have to disagree with the people who told you that you shouldn't call CPS, because to me, having both parents passed out and too drunk to care for their children IS neglect. Certainly the children having to continue to stop and pick up their passed-out mother as they walk home is neglect. Isn't it the case that CPS can be called anonymously? That should take care of any guilt you may feel, and I'm sorry, but in this situation, if you thought you would be talked out of it, I wouldn't even tell your wife.
Why am I harping on all of this when your BIL is doing better at the present time? Because from all I have seen of alcoholism, I would be shocked if this ends up being his one and only dance at the recovery rodeo with nary a relapse. So just keep the advice above in mind if/when he relapses and the problems start up again.
Why am I harping on all of this when your BIL is doing better at the present time? Because from all I have seen of alcoholism, I would be shocked if this ends up being his one and only dance at the recovery rodeo with nary a relapse. So just keep the advice above in mind if/when he relapses and the problems start up again.
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