matilda17

Hold your fire.

We've known each other 7 years professionally -- we're in the same field -- and have been together for 2 years. We've talked about marriage and are in a kind of trial period in which we're living together for 6 months (splitting costs but keeping finances separate) and seeing if there's a future for us. I have talked to him about drinking, as well as about a couple other questions I have that could prevent me from committing, and I am using this time in part to get a better sense for what's going on there.

If I decide that, regardless of his take on it, it looks like an addiction to me, and if he won't do something about it for his own sake, I will leave. I gleaned as much as I could from a distance, and it is love -- I want to do what I can to see it through, but if it can't work I'll move on.

LifeRecovery

I just want to say how much I really relate to this.

I was in recovery (and continue to be) for my eating disorder when I met, dated and married my loved one. Though I in no way want to say recovery is a bad thing, because I was working so hard on my own it took me a long time to realize that the other person in the relationship would have "stuff" to. Boundaries were and remain hard because it is tough for me to sort out if the stuff I am struggling with is mine or someone elses. I have a tendancy to not trust myself and to see everyone else around me as the "healthy ones."

This was insidious, and it is only in the last three years (the last year of our relationship and the seperation/divorce that I am realizing that not all of the crud in the relationship was not because of my ED. I would continuously say to my support "When I fix myself I will start working on the relationship....."

On the other hand, once I realized that I needed more recovery than just ED work I have gotten support for living with an alcoholic and ED work. It is kind of like a piece was missing.

matilda17

LR -- thank you so much for chiming in. I so relate to what you said about how your own recovery making it harder to realize that others have stuff to deal with and making it harder to tell what's yours and what's someone else's. Boundaries, etc. Completely get it.

I also find it hard not to see a lot of potentially benign behavior in others as addictive, just because it is to me. I don't go around telling people they are addicts, but for example, my best friend from high school has a beer or two (sometimes three) almost every evening, and I find it hard to not see that as alcoholism in action, but in her case that doesn't seem to be so.

If I may ask, when you talk about support for living with an alcoholic, do you mean Alanon? I have a feeling I'm going to need to darken the doors of those rooms, too, which is fine by me -- I have been waiting for a bit to get through the steps in my eating program first, but now I find myself living with someone who might well have a drinking problem. I do sense that there's more work I will need to do.

In any case, thanks again -- really feeling the support here and appreciate it more than I can say.

LifeRecovery

Matilda17-

So first of all I am blessed to have a FANTASTIC therapist. Her personal background is addiction work, and 12 steps both Al-anon and AA. She got her training in therapy and worked at an eating disorder center. Enter me after I had just started dating my ex and you have a perfect combination for support. I am fortunate to have her in my life.

She suggested Al-anon to me as soon as the signs were there of problem drinking. I kept saying....no let me work on my stuff. My loved one was a periodic binge drinker and "functional" so it took me awhile to realize the extent of the problem. It took marriage, a night out with friends, a punched window, a kicked dog etc.

It was actually my husband having an affair with a friends of mine (who had/has her own struggles with alcohol) that finally got me into Al-anon. I understand affairs and alcohol abuse are different, but I was FINALLY able to break out of denial about the fact that his stuff impacted the relationship too. From the moment I found out about the affair to my first Al-anon meeting was 24 hrs. Five years had passed from the topic being broached, but I immediately felt at home in Al-anon. I don't have a background in 12 step work for my ED, but I am finding that Al-anon is helping me with boundaries, helping me to not feel so alone, and is actually helping me with the ED (maintaining). Codependent behaviors have been a big part of me since I was a kid, and played a big role in my ED. Al-anon has helped with those. Have you read the work of Jennifer Schaefer? She talks about attending 12 step meetings as support for her ED, and I feel similarly to what she talks about.

For a long time I kept my ED "separate" from the rest of my life. I love my compartmentalization. In actuality I was working on recovery from life (part of why I have my screen name) from all of it but did not realize it at the time. Al-anon, therapy, reading etc has all help to pull stuff together and to integrate for me. I still struggle at times, but I am in a better place then I ever have been before. It is nice to be coherant, and consistent.

fourmaggie

this is a good topic for me...

a good friend of mine is a binge drinker...we always take separate cars...we meet for dinner and then at the bar afterwards...

dinner usually ends of fine...its when we get to the bar

last time at the bar, she was drunk...but i have no control over her actions and etc...she disappeared on me...next thing i knew..she came over and said she was leaving to go with this couple and took off, and left me high and dry at the bar alone...hey, thats ok..i am a big girl...

the next day she called and said she had no idea how she got home and the pole in the front yard is on the ground and the car has a dent in it...

few days after that...she called again to apologize for leaving me high and dry at the bar....hummm.....do i know better the next time...YES! would i go out with her again...dunno...but i am not her babysitter....(still thinking about this as a learning tool for the next "drunk")

DrStrangelove

Well my mother has been very loud and disruptive in a movie theater before. She would go from laughing to loud talking to crying and complaining. You have to remember that much of what they do is not really their fault. I left with her before management asked us to leave. Whenever we left she began crying and told me what was really on her mind after I had told her I wanted to listen. It's often really hard to remember that they can't help their behavior.

matilda17

Wow, LR -- what a lot to go through. I am familiar with Jennifer Schaefer's work, yes, and it in part was what convinced me to get fully into OA a couple years ago (coincidentally, just as I was entering the relationship with my potentially A boyfriend).

I find that I can be in denial, seemingly, both about other people's issues and the effects they have/other ways they impact my life. I do have the same problem, I believe, of seeing others as all healthy and myself as the one with the issues because of the ED -- it has undermined my self-image and self-confidence over time, which makes me vulnerable to boundary problems with others. I look forward to a time when all the various pieces can be integrated and involved in the recovery process. That's inspiring.

And fourmaggie -- right there with you in terms of drawing lines in specific situations. I don't have to think about separate cars with my BF, as most of the stuff we do socially is within walking distance of our place, as it happens, with friends' houses and the like. But metaphorically, I'm going to look for ways to get in my own car.

Thanks, DrStrangelove, for the tip about your mom. I do know from years of pretty ferocious eating issues what it feels like once the switch is flipped and the addiction takes over, but I still forget when it's me on the outside watching an A do his thing. Compassion is hard to remember as a default setting, but I'm working on that too.

fedup3

[QUOTE=matilda17;3311418]Hello Alanon, hello yet another period of being alone.

Matilda, sometimes being alone is so so much better than being with someone you're having doubts about right now and find out years down the road that how you wish you were alone again!

matilda17

I hear that, fedup3. I am taking this time over the next couple months to figure out whether this is going to be at all workable for me -- I have a built-in deadline of the end of Sept., when our lease runs out. We talked about it beforehand and agreed that if it doesn't work for either of us, we would go our separate ways.

I have to work to separate my stuff from other people's, and ultimately I'm not sure if he is an addict -- I know I am. It doesn't matter what he is if it makes me uncomfortable, and that's certainly going to be high on my list of considerations during this trial phase.

Cyranoak

Love is meaningful in only one way-- without it you can't have a relationship.

But, it's just the key to the car. You need it to start the car but if you don't do anything else you'll just sit there until it runs out of gas or you die of carbon monoxide poisoning which is exactly what's going to happen if you marry an alcoholic who:

Has not accepted that they are an alcoholic and can't drink at all-- ever.
Is not fully engaged in a recovery program.
And he has the dreaded and so very common to alcoholics, darker side which will never go away unless he finds true sobriety. In fact, it will get worse.

Lastly, no matter what he does if you don't start Alanon, and this is strictly my opinion, you won't be able to be happy with him anyway, sober or not.

My two cents.

Good luck,

Cyranoak

matilda17

Thanks, Cyranoak -- I've read much of your input here and know you know what you're talking about. I am not in disagreement on any one of the points you've made. That's why I'm using this time to observe him more closely, see whether I believe he is an alcoholic, and then proceed depending on that decision.

I brought up the love thing not as a justification for staying on a sinking ship, but as my reason for doing this trial period and seeing it through to the end, even if that means I walk away 6 months from now. I'm not going to martyr myself over some romantic idea of love trumps all.

Rather, I know myself well enough to know I don't want to wonder, potentially for the rest of my life, if I made a mistake by pulling the plug before I decided *for myself* what I'm looking at here and spoke up about it, said clearly what I will and won't live with, and then let the results of that conversation point me where to go next. And either way, Alanon is going to be in the picture. It already has been -- I've been emphasizing my OA program because that's my primary addiction in terms of severity, but obviously this is coming to the fore now. Thanks so much for adding your perspective.

CodeNameGiggles

As far as the what to do issue, which others have addressed, I'll simply say that I too wound up removing myself from situations where his drinking was going to be embarassing to me personally.

I do, however, just want to touch on something else you said:

Don't let the impression of age force you into making decisions that are wrong for you. I'll be hitting 40 soon, and my children are both under 2 years. It wasn't where I saw myself, but it is where the cards fell. Luckily, that wasn't uncommon in my family, so I'm easily able to shrug off the "isn't that so HARD because of your AGE" comments.

Also, I want to share with you the story of when I used to work for university admission recruitment. The College of Dentistry recruiter was next to me, and there was a woman who was telling him that it had been her life dream to be a dentist, but that she was too old at this point to pursue it. The recruiter, who was older, said "how old will be you in 5 years." She said "I'll be 45." He said "so would you rather be 45 and regret not pursuing your dreams, or 45 and a dentist."

matilda17

Thanks, CNG. Definitely needed to hear that. The not-wanting-kids thing helps me overlook some aspects of my "you should be x by y age" ingrained thinking, gives me less of a timeline for finding someone who's right for me, but I do get panicky from time to time. It's never too late to start over, I guess, especially if something just doesn't work.

My parents have been married for 40 years and got married young, so I think I do feel pressure from that direction at times. They also desperately want grandkids, and both I and my older bro (who's 39) are single. They know better than to expect them from me, as I've always maintained I would probably not have them, but I sometimes feel a bit less-than for going this route. Something I do to myself, I know.

Thlayli

FWIW - Al-anon can help even if he's not an alcoholic. I've had two husbands now over whom I've agonized...trying to decide whether or not they are alcoholic. Then I realized that, regardless of any label or diagnosis, their drinking affected me. Am I overly sensitive about drinking behaviors? It doesn't matter. I am who I am and I feel the way I feel. Their drinking has affected me and Al-anon has been a huge help!

matilda17

Thanks, Thlayli! I know I'm really sensitive to this issue, partly because I know addiction is such a beast to try to deal with and it's hard enough to be in a relationship with my own issue figuring in, knowing I'm willing to be fully in a recovery program, so potentially being linked to another addict may not be the way to go.

I've found a couple Alanon meetings in my area that I've liked and will also check out the phone meetings. In fact, I'll do that today.