Blogs


Notices

Can they be sober without AA?

Old 02-24-2012, 11:07 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,261
Although I do question most people who I notice don't drink.
why?

Just know that it's rare.
Consider the possibility that it may not be as rare as you think. Limited exposure is different than truly rare.
soberlicious is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to soberlicious For This Useful Post:
Fandy (02-24-2012), gerryP (02-25-2012), Impurrfect (02-24-2012), KittyP (02-24-2012), neferkamichael (02-24-2012), NoelleR (02-25-2012), zxcirce (02-24-2012)
Old 02-24-2012, 11:08 AM
  # 22 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:    USA                        Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
Although it is good for people to hear this, since we are the truly anonymous ones, you're wasting your time with Joe, soberlicious. People like Joe need the myth that people who aren't working a good program are miserable, angry people a 'dry drunk'. They pathologize anger and then actively seek it out in everyone else as a projection of their own internal turmoil.
Terminally Unique is offline  
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Terminally Unique For This Useful Post:
DarkDays (02-27-2012), Fandy (02-24-2012), gerryP (02-25-2012), KittyP (02-24-2012), laurie6781 (02-24-2012), Marytherboo (02-27-2012), MTSlideAddict (02-25-2012), neferkamichael (02-24-2012), soberlicious (02-24-2012)
Old 02-24-2012, 11:15 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:    USA                        Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by soberlicious View Post
Consider the possibility that it may not be as rare as you think. Limited exposure is different than truly rare.
It isn't rare at all.

About 75 percent of persons who recover from alcohol dependence do so without seeking any kind of help, including specialty alcohol (rehab) programs and AA. Only 13 percent of people with alcohol dependence ever receive specialty alcohol treatment.

NIAAA: Alcoholism Isn't What it Used to Be
Terminally Unique is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Terminally Unique For This Useful Post:
gerryP (02-25-2012), Impurrfect (02-24-2012), KittyP (02-24-2012), laurie6781 (02-24-2012), MTSlideAddict (02-25-2012), neferkamichael (02-24-2012), zxcirce (02-24-2012)
Old 02-24-2012, 11:25 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
Member
 
NYCDoglvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,247
Originally Posted by lizatola View Post
See, I know all this. You are right, he's not ready to give up his alcoholic thinking which usually consists of self-pity, depression, fear, trust issues, etc. Heaven forbid if he were to truly get free from this negative thinking, he might actually find more peace. Sigh, I guess that's why I work my own recovery program, right?
In AA's Big Book Bill Wilson says alcoholics are grandiose, selfish, self centered, have both enormous egos and low self esteem. "His majesty the child". We all believe we're "terminally unique", we're different from other alcoholics. After 20 years of hearing alcoholics share about themselves I can say that isn't true. Wilson also says "alcohol is but a symptom" and that we must change our negative thinking and character defects or we'll return to the bottle.

It helps to understand alcoholism is classified by the AMA as a mental illness. Alcoholics motivated can work on themselves (therapy, the Steps) and change over time. It's very hard work but those folks have good lives. But it is only in the hands of the alcoholic what he/she does.
NYCDoglvr is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to NYCDoglvr For This Useful Post:
Impurrfect (02-24-2012), neferkamichael (02-24-2012), Wing (02-25-2012)
Old 02-24-2012, 11:28 AM
  # 25 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,047
People get sober in a number of different ways. AA is not the only tool. It's one tool that works for a lot of people. Having said that, in my experience it is rare for somebody to find sobriety without working some kind of program be it AA, AVRT, Drug and Alcohol Counseling, their religion, or something.

Keep an open mind, but please remember that you will occasionally see on this board disingenuous and douchey attacks directly or passive-aggressively on somebody else's choice of how to find sobriety. No one course of action will work for everybody. In my opinion it's choosing something, working it, and giving it a chance that helps an alcoholic choosing sobriety. I could care less what the acronym is, or if it even has one.

Take what you want and leave the rest. I mean that.

Cyranoak
Cyranoak is offline  
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Cyranoak For This Useful Post:
DesertEyes (02-25-2012), Impurrfect (02-24-2012), jackien41 (02-24-2012), lillamy (02-24-2012), neferkamichael (02-24-2012), NYCDoglvr (02-24-2012), outtolunch (03-01-2012), Zoenob (02-25-2012), zxcirce (02-24-2012)
Old 02-24-2012, 11:31 AM
  # 26 (permalink)  
Member
 
PaperDolls's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Midwest
Posts: 8,539
Blog Entries: 10
Consider this ...

Is it possible to recovery from codependency without alanon?
PaperDolls is offline  
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to PaperDolls For This Useful Post:
Impurrfect (02-24-2012), LaTeeDa (02-24-2012), laurie6781 (02-24-2012), lillamy (02-24-2012), neferkamichael (02-24-2012), outtolunch (03-01-2012), sesh (02-24-2012), soberlicious (02-24-2012), Terminally Unique (02-24-2012)
Old 02-24-2012, 11:49 AM
  # 27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,261
in my experience it is rare for somebody to find sobriety without working some kind of program be it AA, AVRT, Drug and Alcohol Counseling, their religion, or something.
and that "something" can be a number of things...for me, it was first and foremost, put down the bottle for good.
Then it's been a huge array of practices/strategies/experiences that continually propel my growth...reading (anything and everything addiction related and not), therapy, studying philosophies/religions, exercising, meditating, ending relationships, starting relationships, salvaging relationships, rediscovering hobbies, making friends, putting more into my job, getting through the teenage years with my kids, taking classes, conquering fears....the list of things that enable my ongoing growth is literally endless.
Some people call it a "program", I like to call it living life.
soberlicious is offline  
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to soberlicious For This Useful Post:
Cyranoak (02-24-2012), Fandy (02-24-2012), gerryP (02-25-2012), Impurrfect (02-24-2012), KittyP (02-24-2012), m1k3 (02-24-2012), neferkamichael (02-24-2012), SoaringSpirits (02-27-2012), Terminally Unique (02-24-2012)
Old 02-24-2012, 11:54 AM
  # 28 (permalink)  
Member
 
Joe Nerv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bklyn. NY
Posts: 1,859
Blog Entries: 2
Originally Posted by soberlicious View Post
why?
Because I share something in common with them, and it often makes for good conversation.

As for the other stuff, it's a pointless thing to argue so I'm not going to any more. Bottom line is what you do is working for you, what I do is working for me. And that's great for both of us. You see what it is you choose to see in the world, and I see what I choose to see. Way too many variables involved in topics like these, and no difinitive proof of anything. Our experience is the best proof we've got, and that's a completely individual thing.

I got into a discussion on the "harmlessness" of marijuana on another non drug related forum a few months back. It went on endlessly... and seemed pointless in the long run. Just created a lot of bad feelings.

Can we shake hands and be friends?
Joe Nerv is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Joe Nerv For This Useful Post:
Impurrfect (02-24-2012), neferkamichael (02-24-2012)
Old 02-24-2012, 12:14 PM
  # 29 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location:    USA                        Recovered with AVRT  (Rational Recovery)  ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by Cyranoak View Post
People get sober in a number of different ways. AA is not the only tool. It's one tool that works for a lot of people. Having said that, in my experience it is rare for somebody to find sobriety without working some kind of program be it AA, AVRT, Drug and Alcohol Counseling, their religion, or something.
Although I say that most people do quit on their own, without a program, one could obviously argue that the method I currently use (AVRT) is a 'program'. At the very least, it certainly is a paradigm for understanding addiction, and a methodology for destroying it. I certainly could have gone the trial-and-error route, but Rational Recovery has come up with a method based on the experiences of thousands of self-recovered people, effectively saving me the trouble.
Terminally Unique is offline  
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Terminally Unique For This Useful Post:
Cyranoak (02-24-2012), DarkDays (02-27-2012), Fandy (02-24-2012), Impurrfect (02-24-2012), neferkamichael (02-24-2012), PaperDolls (02-24-2012), smacked (02-24-2012), SoaringSpirits (02-27-2012), soberlicious (02-24-2012)
Old 02-24-2012, 12:25 PM
  # 30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,261
Originally Posted by Joe Nerv
Because I share something in common with them, and it often makes for good conversation.
You may share "not drinking" in common with them, but not necessarily addiction. There are millions of people who don't drink alcohol that have never been addicted. I personally know three people off hand that have never had a drop of alcohol in their entire lives....just because. Not everyone who doesn't drink is in "recovery" lol

It's unfortunate that you feel this is in some way an argument. An exchange of ideas is never ever pointless, in my opinion. I thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Can we shake hands and be friends?
You are a fellow traveler. enough said
soberlicious is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to soberlicious For This Useful Post:
Fandy (02-24-2012), Impurrfect (02-24-2012), neferkamichael (02-24-2012), Terminally Unique (02-24-2012)
Old 02-24-2012, 12:26 PM
  # 31 (permalink)  
Member
 
dancingnow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 342
Some people may recover from codependency without going to alanon and some may recover just by going to alanon. For me, I need alanon and tons of other activities like reading, meditating, counseling.

In reading this thread it is striking how our own personal experiences sometimes prevent us from objectively processing someone's post and responding without rancor.

I appreciate all the different viewpoints, some I relate to, some I don't but still appreciate hearing from everyone.
dancingnow is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to dancingnow For This Useful Post:
Impurrfect (02-24-2012), neferkamichael (02-24-2012), PaperDolls (02-24-2012)
Old 02-24-2012, 12:28 PM
  # 32 (permalink)  
Member
 
LaTeeDa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by PaperDolls View Post
Consider this ...

Is it possible to recovery from codependency without alanon?
Absolutely!

Originally Posted by soberlicious View Post
and that "something" can be a number of things...for me, it was first and foremost, put down the bottle for good.
Then it's been a huge array of practices/strategies/experiences that continually propel my growth...reading (anything and everything addiction related and not), therapy, studying philosophies/religions, exercising, meditating, ending relationships, starting relationships, salvaging relationships, rediscovering hobbies, making friends, putting more into my job, getting through the teenage years with my kids, taking classes, conquering fears....the list of things that enable my ongoing growth is literally endless.
Some people call it a "program", I like to call it living life.
What she said. Minus putting down the bottle. Instead, I let go of the alcoholic.

L
LaTeeDa is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to LaTeeDa For This Useful Post:
Impurrfect (02-24-2012), Linkmeister (02-25-2012), m1k3 (02-24-2012), neferkamichael (02-24-2012), PaperDolls (02-24-2012), soberlicious (02-24-2012)
Old 02-24-2012, 12:32 PM
  # 33 (permalink)  
Member
 
Joe Nerv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bklyn. NY
Posts: 1,859
Blog Entries: 2
Originally Posted by soberlicious View Post
You may share "not drinking" in common with them, but not necessarily addiction. There are millions of people who don't drink alcohol that have never been addicted. I personally know three people off hand that have never had a drop of alcohol in their entire lives....just because. Not everyone who doesn't drink is in "recovery" lol
Well, you're putting words in my mouth. That kind of stuff tends to sometimes lead people into arguments. I said, we have something in common. Meaning, we don't drink. Which often leads to interesting conversation. Who said anything about "'recovery' lol"? And the "lol" comes off as smug. Just in case ya didn't know.
Joe Nerv is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Joe Nerv For This Useful Post:
neferkamichael (02-24-2012), soberlicious (02-24-2012)
Old 02-24-2012, 12:32 PM
  # 34 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 120
Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
Although I say that most people do quit on their own, without a program, one could obviously argue that the method I currently use (AVRT) is a 'program'. At the very least, it certainly is a paradigm for understanding addiction, and a methodology for destroying it. I certainly could have gone the trial-and-error route, but Rational Recovery has come up with a method based on the experiences of thousands of self-recovered people, effectively saving me the trouble.
Recovering with AVRT then is a form of help isn't it. But you choosing to get help, or needing to get help, doesn't invalidate the evidence. My husband recovered with help and he currently attend CBT which he gets a huge amount out of but my anecdote doesn't invalidate the evidence.

I think a lot of people make the mistake of looking at the very tiny percentage of recovered alcohol addicts they know, or of looking at a larger percentage who they find on one particular path and assuming that experience is everything. But the professionals who's job it is to look at every aspect of alcohol addiction find a very different reality because they are looking at the whole picture.
KittyP is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to KittyP For This Useful Post:
neferkamichael (02-24-2012), Terminally Unique (02-24-2012)
Old 02-24-2012, 12:33 PM
  # 35 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 120
Originally Posted by lillamy View Post
My unofficial Al-Anon sponsor talks about recovery programs this way:

If you due to a terminal disease was forced to amputate a leg, you could conceivably hobble around on one leg for the rest of your life and still get around on a pair of crutches and the one remaining leg.

But there are prosthetic legs available, and they are good, and some of them even allow you to run.

So why would you refuse a prosthetic leg based on the idea that "I already know how they work and I don't believe in the philosophy behind them" or "there are too many Christians involved in making prosthetic legs" or "people who need prosthetic legs are all a bunch of losers and I'm not like them."

Prosthetic legs can make your life better. And you owe it to yourself to try them. If it turns out they don't work for you, you haven't lost anything. If it turns out they do work for you, you can run through the fields again instead of hobbling on one leg and a pair of old crutches.
To use a similar analogy one could argue that if you have leg pain why would you spend the rest of your life relying on a crutch when you have the option to just get better and get on with your life as normal.
KittyP is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to KittyP For This Useful Post:
neferkamichael (02-24-2012)
Old 02-24-2012, 12:46 PM
  # 36 (permalink)  
☯ ⓌⒾⓁⓁ☯
 
Zencat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 8,211
Blog Entries: 12
AA by far is the most available free of cost (they take donations)
single organization that people seek to get and stay sober. However there are many different ways people use to maintain sobriety. As no one single recovery program is appropriate for everybody.

I believe that having a personal recovery maintenance plan can greatly increase the odds of staying sober. SMART Recovery offers that type of plan. Learning to cope with life's challenges is a good skill set to have too.

So yes, many people do recover from alcoholism w/o AA. Also many others that are recovered from addiction learn to live a life that makes them a joy to be around.
Zencat is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Zencat For This Useful Post:
laurie6781 (02-24-2012), least (02-24-2012), neferkamichael (02-24-2012), smacked (02-24-2012), soberlicious (02-24-2012)
Old 02-24-2012, 12:52 PM
  # 37 (permalink)  
Life Health Prosperity
 
neferkamichael's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Louisana
Posts: 6,559
Originally Posted by PaperDolls View Post
Consider this ...

Is it possible to recovery from codependency without alanon?
Codependency is a unique situation not related to alcoholism. Every child is codependent on thiercare givers for many years.
neferkamichael is offline  
Old 02-24-2012, 12:57 PM
  # 38 (permalink)  
bona fido dog-lover
 
least's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: eastern USA
Posts: 86,677
Blog Entries: 32
I'm happily sober over two years. My program is weekly counseling, daily visits to SR, and taking care of my dogs. It's working great so far.
least is online now  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to least For This Useful Post:
Cyranoak (04-01-2012), neferkamichael (02-24-2012), PaperDolls (02-24-2012), soberlicious (02-24-2012), Zencat (02-25-2012)
Old 02-24-2012, 12:58 PM
  # 39 (permalink)  
Member
 
LaTeeDa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by neferkamichael View Post
Codependency is a unique situation not related to alcoholism. Every child is codependent on thiercare givers for many years.
I think you are confusing dependency with COdependency.

L
LaTeeDa is offline  
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to LaTeeDa For This Useful Post:
anvilhead (02-24-2012), Cyranoak (02-24-2012), least (02-24-2012), neferkamichael (02-24-2012), NoelleR (02-25-2012), PaperDolls (02-24-2012), sesh (02-24-2012), smacked (02-24-2012)
Old 02-24-2012, 01:28 PM
  # 40 (permalink)  
Member
 
NYCDoglvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,247
People get sober in a number of different ways. AA is not the only tool. It's one tool that works for a lot of people. Having said that, in my experience it is rare for somebody to find sobriety without working some kind of program be it AA, AVRT, Drug and Alcohol Counseling, their religion, or something.
Thanks so much for posting this. AA worked for me but I know people sober decades who aren't in AA. When I stopped drinking and in very bad shape 20 years ago I didn't know of any alternative. I'm an agnostic and have no concept of a Christian god so I work secular steps. No problem in New York but outside many alcoholics are strident.

And you're right: especially in the beginning some sort of program is necessary. One addiction physician said it isn't one size fits all. It's frequently a combination of things (medication, cognitive therapy and support program). There's a difference between an alcoholic/addict who drank a few years and is young and someone who drank for decades. And, some of us are sicker than others.
NYCDoglvr is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to NYCDoglvr For This Useful Post:
Cyranoak (02-28-2012), laurie6781 (02-24-2012), neferkamichael (02-24-2012), PaperDolls (02-24-2012), Threshold (02-27-2012), Zencat (02-25-2012)

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:22 AM.