Al-Anon and Religion and a rant.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Right here, right now!
Posts: 3,424
Originally Posted by m1k3 
I think the point that annoyed me the most was not that some people came up to me after the meeting and pointed out my error but that I was interrupted in the middle of my sharing. As an ACOA that was something that happened to me so much growing up that my opinion would be discounted before I even got to finish.
I know this is a trigger of mine but still grrrrrrr.
I go for help and support. I don't go to be put in my place.
I know this is a trigger of mine but still grrrrrrr.
I go for help and support. I don't go to be put in my place.
Reading this other post of yours though really got me thinking.
As hard as this is right now, what a great opportunity has presented itself to help you with healing from the past with your ACOA stuff. Not that it will be fixed overnight or that it won't be painful but that acknowledging it has been a great step and one you can build on.
For me I hear your recovery loud and clear in the whole post.
Skipper
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South Texas, USA
Posts: 827
Man, that stinks!! I haven't noticed that issue so much in ours. I do know that if anyone gets interrupted, there is a group 'tackle' of the interrupter and the original share is supposed to continue!! LOL.
Our group has all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds, lifestyles, faiths...I haven't noticed that anyone gets cut off for any of these things....
I do hope you find one that fits for you!
Our group has all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds, lifestyles, faiths...I haven't noticed that anyone gets cut off for any of these things....
I do hope you find one that fits for you!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wild West, USA
Posts: 407
I ran into that once. Fortunately I live in a large enough city that I could easily find other groups that welcome a more diverse population, in terms of religion and background and orientation, etc. I am amazed at how very different the personalities of each group are. Hope you can find one that suits you better.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 280
I had some of these same misgivings when I first joined Al Anon. I'm a student of the Tao. I used my sharing time to give this a voice, and how I reconciled this "higher power" thing when the Tao does not presuppose one. I aired it in the group, and wanting to both get some of the great stuff Al Anon has to offer, and contribute what I could, I just silently re-language the parts that are not a fit for me. I found my group completely accepting of my way with it.
Find a new group!
Find a new group!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 187
Are you close to NYC at all? Any large cities? I agree, find a new group. You may have to drive a little further.
I am in Los Angeles, and have never seen Christianity in ANY of the meetings I've been to. In fact, I always got the feeling that folks leaned the opposite way in trying to eliminate the religious connotations from the teachings. Then again, there are probably more Buddhists in LA than there are Christians. If it was the east coast or a small town I'm sure it would be a different story. It still feels like a cult though.
I am in Los Angeles, and have never seen Christianity in ANY of the meetings I've been to. In fact, I always got the feeling that folks leaned the opposite way in trying to eliminate the religious connotations from the teachings. Then again, there are probably more Buddhists in LA than there are Christians. If it was the east coast or a small town I'm sure it would be a different story. It still feels like a cult though.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 338
I'm sorry for your experience. I feel very fortunate to have a group that does not seem to have a problem. We have some atheists and some Jewish members yet we still close with the Lord's prayer. No one seems to be offended by it. I know some of the daily readings have bible verse's in them but they also have quotes form a variety of other sources both religious and secular. The Prayer of St Francis is also found in some Al Anon literature. Although I am quite fond of this prayer myself, I find that it is a "codependent" prayer. I rather use the Serenity Prayer as a tool to give me strength. I think certain groups are very inclusive of each member's HP. Some need to work on that. I for one would have enjoyed listening to your perspective. I don't think that is promoting religion, it is just explaining the similarities from a different perspective. I hope you can find a group where you feel respected...or perhaps this is an opportunity to address this within the groups. If you feel this way, it is likely that someone else does as well.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
Right now I am in a good place and don't really feel the need to look for another meeting. There is a group of old timers who kind of set the standards for our whole region and seem to have at least one of them in attendance at all of the meetings.
I've gotten to the point where I just don't feel the need to tilt at windmills any more. I hope that quoting Don Quixote isn't too obscure of a reference.
Just out of curiosity I checked One Day At A Time last night and found over 40 Bible scripture quotes.
It served it's purpose and helped me through a difficult time. I have to admit though I got much more out of Sober Recovery than I did Al-Anon.
Thanks for the feed back and for letting me rant.
To use a Buddhist teaching it's time for me to "let go" of this issue.
Your friend,
I've gotten to the point where I just don't feel the need to tilt at windmills any more. I hope that quoting Don Quixote isn't too obscure of a reference.
Just out of curiosity I checked One Day At A Time last night and found over 40 Bible scripture quotes.
It served it's purpose and helped me through a difficult time. I have to admit though I got much more out of Sober Recovery than I did Al-Anon.
Thanks for the feed back and for letting me rant.
To use a Buddhist teaching it's time for me to "let go" of this issue.
Your friend,
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Somewhere in the big ole' world....
Posts: 545
I will always be eternally grateful to Al-Anon's program for helping me achieve the growth that has come my way. That was the first step in this journey and led to so many other wonderful tools. I have no religious affiliation and use the term "God of my understanding" when I share in meetings.
That being said, other tools have helped in my recovery-a good counselor, some amazing books by Melody Beatty, Karen Carson and Earnie Larsen and some very supportive Al-Anon and AA friends.
But for me, the biggest tool the one that I turned to, even before Al-Anon, was coming here to SR. I found SR one night when I was at a very low point, needing help and advice.
Reading posts similar to what I went through, feeling the compassion and support from other posters, being challenged by others, have for me, been the biggest part of where I am now.
While I may not actually post as many times as others do, reading certain threads, bookmarking them, going back over them for later use, helped me so much in the decisions I made, how I would react in certain situations and in all honesty, helped to give me the strength and courage to move on with my life. I visit here daily, reading threads - it has become part of my daily routine.
It's no knock against Al-Anon - they are but one part of my recovery, SR another, for which I will be eternally grateful for.
That being said, other tools have helped in my recovery-a good counselor, some amazing books by Melody Beatty, Karen Carson and Earnie Larsen and some very supportive Al-Anon and AA friends.
But for me, the biggest tool the one that I turned to, even before Al-Anon, was coming here to SR. I found SR one night when I was at a very low point, needing help and advice.
Reading posts similar to what I went through, feeling the compassion and support from other posters, being challenged by others, have for me, been the biggest part of where I am now.
While I may not actually post as many times as others do, reading certain threads, bookmarking them, going back over them for later use, helped me so much in the decisions I made, how I would react in certain situations and in all honesty, helped to give me the strength and courage to move on with my life. I visit here daily, reading threads - it has become part of my daily routine.
It's no knock against Al-Anon - they are but one part of my recovery, SR another, for which I will be eternally grateful for.
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,649
Hi I'm adding my two cents here from Sweden. Swedes like to keep a long arm distance from religion and AA (and I assume alanon) meetings here have almost no references to religion, specific faiths, and or Jesus.
I can certainly understand your frustration because I would be annoyed at anyone's attempt to tie AA to any specific religion.
That said: AA and Alonon are very much so faith-based programs.
Bill W, one of the founders of AA, started out attending Oxford group meetings before he founded AA. The Oxford group was started actually as a departure from organized religion. You can look at it's history on the net. When the 12 steps were created, they were based on 6 steps in the Oxford group. The steps were about removing the ego, shifting control in life to a power outside yourself, a higher power, making amends, etc.
That is why you will find references to God and spirituality in the 12 steps and in the BB. Having said that, though, there is nothing in the program that connects itself specifically to Christianity. There are no references to Jesus.
When people do this in meetings, they are failing to see the difference between spirituality and religion.
there is AA in India, with multiple deities and no Jesus, there is AA in Israel. If you find yourself in a meeting where people are insisting on tying AA or alanon to Christianity, they are failing to understand the message of the program.
But, yes, spirituality is a big part of the message, and yes, you will find references to God as you understand him/her/it.
I can certainly understand your frustration because I would be annoyed at anyone's attempt to tie AA to any specific religion.
That said: AA and Alonon are very much so faith-based programs.
Bill W, one of the founders of AA, started out attending Oxford group meetings before he founded AA. The Oxford group was started actually as a departure from organized religion. You can look at it's history on the net. When the 12 steps were created, they were based on 6 steps in the Oxford group. The steps were about removing the ego, shifting control in life to a power outside yourself, a higher power, making amends, etc.
That is why you will find references to God and spirituality in the 12 steps and in the BB. Having said that, though, there is nothing in the program that connects itself specifically to Christianity. There are no references to Jesus.
When people do this in meetings, they are failing to see the difference between spirituality and religion.
there is AA in India, with multiple deities and no Jesus, there is AA in Israel. If you find yourself in a meeting where people are insisting on tying AA or alanon to Christianity, they are failing to understand the message of the program.
But, yes, spirituality is a big part of the message, and yes, you will find references to God as you understand him/her/it.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 602
Originally Posted by m1k3
when I share experience about how the first 2 steps tie very tightly to the first 3 noble truths of Buddhism I am shut down and told there is no religion in Al-Anon. Even though up to a few months ago we closed both meetings I go to with the Lord's prayer.
I agree that some hills aren't worth dying on, and I admire your perspective on this, but I wonder if it wouldn't do some good for you to take aside the leader and just let them know it's not cool.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 602
Originally Posted by lillamy
One thing I have done in the past is bring up issues with the group as a topic of conversation. "What do you do when people run roughshod over your experiences and try to force their own solutions on you?" for example.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
Akrasia -- that would be hilarious!!! 
Exactly! There's a huge difference between spirituality and religion.
Was it here that someone said "Religion is for people who believe there is a hell. Faith is for people who have been there."?
there is nothing in the program that connects itself specifically to Christianity. There are no references to Jesus.
When people do this in meetings, they are failing to see the difference between spirituality and religion.
When people do this in meetings, they are failing to see the difference between spirituality and religion.
Was it here that someone said "Religion is for people who believe there is a hell. Faith is for people who have been there."?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
Well, what I am saying now and for the near future is goodbye.
I am grateful for the program as it helped me get to where I am right now. However I am going to take to opportunity to focus on some other stuff in my life which was set aside as I dealt with the interesting events of the last year.
Don't worry, you will still see me here on SR. This is a program that truly works for me and I have no plans for giving this up.
Your friend,
I am grateful for the program as it helped me get to where I am right now. However I am going to take to opportunity to focus on some other stuff in my life which was set aside as I dealt with the interesting events of the last year.
Don't worry, you will still see me here on SR. This is a program that truly works for me and I have no plans for giving this up.
Your friend,
Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: -
Posts: 118
I'm so sorry about that. I don't think that they realize who they will lose.
I so admired that you encouraged so many others to go to Al-Anon. I was so very glad that you had found an accepting group. It saddens me that there won't be that advocate now because of prejudice? Is that the correct word? Al-Anon is where all higher powers are respected. Just because mine may be different than yours does not make either invalid.
I feel angry for you at them. Its their loss because of your wisdom and compassion!!!!
Grrrr......
Maybe go back after you've cooled down??? How will the next new Buddhist attending hear your voice?
I would advocate to hear your strong voice. We need all the voices of everyone.
Again I'm so very sorry.
Thank you for sharing and for letting me share.
(((hugs)))
I so admired that you encouraged so many others to go to Al-Anon. I was so very glad that you had found an accepting group. It saddens me that there won't be that advocate now because of prejudice? Is that the correct word? Al-Anon is where all higher powers are respected. Just because mine may be different than yours does not make either invalid.
I feel angry for you at them. Its their loss because of your wisdom and compassion!!!!
Grrrr......
Maybe go back after you've cooled down??? How will the next new Buddhist attending hear your voice?
I would advocate to hear your strong voice. We need all the voices of everyone.
Again I'm so very sorry.
Thank you for sharing and for letting me share.
(((hugs)))
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
The Lord's Prayer, in an Alanon meeting, is highly offensive and exclusionary. It is a Christian prayer, and antithetical to the traditions of Alanon. Period.
On the other hand I have no issue with the Serenity Prayer at all.
On the other hand I have no issue with the Serenity Prayer at all.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 447
I too find it weird that a group that specifically says that a Higher power other than themselves... and discourages direct references to God or Jesus unless you state..."my HP whom I choose to call God"...
closes with the Lord's Prayer.
found it very odd...and I'm christian and have a very secure relationship w/ my HP..
closes with the Lord's Prayer.
found it very odd...and I'm christian and have a very secure relationship w/ my HP..
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