How do I deal with Mr Nice?

Old 02-21-2012, 04:15 AM
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so, let's get this straight. he is insisting on remaining in the family home because he wants as much quality time with the boys but he will be busy and unavailable next weekend and also the following weekend?

i find the best plan is the one that does not rely on the alcoholic to do anything. that is the plan which can be executed because it is wholly within your control.

have you considered moving out with the boys into a temporary rental or with family until the divorce is settled?

and, if i may ask, what is your emergency escape plan? where will you go? your situation might explode in a minute and if you have a clear plan, you will be able to execute it under pressure.
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Old 02-21-2012, 04:29 AM
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Hi Naive

I don't have any family nearby to move in with and the kids are all settled at school. There isn't enough money to rent somewhere temporarily and it might affect my divorce settlement if I go so I am not really considering that.

However, if everything becomes unbearable, my emergency plan is to take the boys to my parents' house. As you have suggested, I have packed up the important documents in a bag and I will add a few clothes later. All I will have to do is jump in the car and drive.

Thanks for your concern.

Whatamess
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:47 AM
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WAM,

If you said anything about his temperament I missed it, there is a concept in self defense called condition green, yellow, and red.

Condition green: things are fine, nothing to worry about.

Condition yellow: no known threat, but your guard is up, but watching for threats.

Condition red : there is an active threat, you are reacting to this threat.

In your situation you should always be in condition yellow, always watching for threats to go active, your cell phone and pepper spray should always be on your person. While he may not be violent now and may have never been violent, you are an active threat to the status quo for him, and violence is a real possibility.

You "go bag" should have money and credit cards, your gas tank should always be full, snacks and water should be in your car in case he takes your money or cancels your credit cards, hide an extra set of keys for the house and car.
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:02 AM
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My AH has never been violent before and I don't think he will be now. He has a bad temper and at worst he slams his hand down on the table or thumps a wall but that is about it.

The only thing I would say is that I am a tiny bit scared of him when I don't know how he is going to react to something. If he gets angry he doesn't shout he just simmers, glares and starts lecturing/questioning me. But then when I am angry I yell a lot so I am no saint!

Maybe I have made him sound worse than he really is.
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:04 AM
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You are very astute whatamess.... My xAH was/is the same as yours with regard to agreeing to things ONLY if they are on his terms and then turning the tables around and accusing me (or accused me I should say) of being "controlling" when I set boundaries...

My pulse just quickened reading your statement about requesting that he stay elsewhere so you could have a visit with your friends. Reasonable request. He is going to a wedding and you agreed to not go so clearly you show him you're able to compromise and be considerate, but then his response is that he needs to think about whether he can do the same?

And DO NOT for an instant buy the crap about "I want to be sure I see enough of the kids" that he is feeding you. If he were concerned about that he'd make time for them. He just sees them as convenient pawns to use to try and control you and not give you the space you are asking for. That merry go round is one I was on with AH for a long time.

Can you make plans to stay elsewhere with your friends when they visit IF AH won't leave? I know it's awful to have to do that, but if the alternative is having your visit ruined bc of his unpredictability, then maybe putting a hotel room on a credit card and staying elsewhere for the weekend is better?

And, considering you have filed for divorce and his history of addiction, I think you have every right to tell him that if he refuses to leave for the weekend since you are asking that of him bc of his unpredictability, then maybe a call to the police so that they can escort him away for the weekend would be in order?

I have continued until very recently to think that my AH would be capable of dealing with the divorce like a rational, cooperative human being. All that has happened is he has become increasingly irrational, angry and aggressive when he finds that his fake mr. nice guy act doesn't get him what he wants. Be prepared for the same...
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by whatamess View Post
My AH has never been violent before and I don't think he will be now. He has a bad temper and at worst he slams his hand down on the table or thumps a wall but that is about it.

The only thing I would say is that I am a tiny bit scared of him when I don't know how he is going to react to something. If he gets angry he doesn't shout he just simmers, glares and starts lecturing/questioning me. But then when I am angry I yell a lot so I am no saint!

Maybe I have made him sound worse than he really is.
Go back and read posts from me over the past few years (I think if you click on my name you can go back to old posts...)

My AH was the silent, simmering, glaring, passive aggressive type along with the occassional hand slam on the table or slamming a door.

His drinking didn't increase over the past year but his violence did... lots of it subtle... His anger grew and grew and HE DID get physical. I didn't believe everyone here who warned me this would occur bc I could not imagine that my AH would become that way. Lke you, I thought I was the one who was angrier bc I yelled more than him. And I probably said too that I was making him sound worse than he was.

I wish I had a video tape with snippets of my AH's behavior as it has changed.... First, the silent anger and fist on a table IS violent and is NOT normal and it WILL turn into his anger being directed more and more overtly at you.

The more my AH's old tricks (guilt, threats etc...) didn't work to get me to let him back and the more I stuck to my boundaries and made changes that were good for me and the girls, the WORSE his anger got.

I am reading your posts and hearing myself and I know that in my case I had to experience this all myself before I'd believe it was true... I did a lot of damage to my young girls bc of this. They have seen me abused (mostly verbally, but physically too) and it's something that will take a lot of therapy and time to repair.

Your AH WILL get violent and worse. There is no doubt about that at all. It isn't a question of will he but when.
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:27 AM
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whatamess-

i would imagine at this stage you could be thinking these people are overreacting.

almost 2000 posts later and over 3 years on this board, i've witnessed situations such as yours explode, and explode in a minute.

please understand, he is white knuckling it, which means he is not drinking but not in recovery or treatment. he is under stress. alcoholics deal with stress by drinking. he is not drinking.

on the horizon, we have a stag party next weekend. it's a recipe for disaster.

will it be possible for him to go to a stag party and not drink? if he was serious about not drinking, he would skip the stag party. if he was serious about spending more time with the boys, he would skip the stag party. yet he's chosen to go.

i agree with willy on the cash, credit cards and extra keys for your preparation. i have witnessed many times the alcoholic removing all access to funds by draining the joint account. he can't close it, but he can empty it.

leaving is a very dangerous time. stay safe. watch out for signs of him drinking again. watch out for subtle threats. watch out for him blocking an exit or forcing you into a conversation you don't want to have. condition yellow.
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:12 AM
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BINGO!!!

.. I told him I needed a reply and he said he would get back to me tomorrow.
sure he will...bahahahaha!!

...I also spoke to him about telling the kids and he still wouldn't agree. When I said that I would leave it a bit longer but if he continued to avoid it I would do it on my own, he told me I was bullying him.
Don't wait for him..just tell them. what is he going to do? You can't unring a bell.

....Anyway, this morning I had a bit of a revelation. AH will not agree to anything I suggest, ever. For example, we still don't have curtains after living in our house for 2.5 years, because he won't agree on the fabric, I am not allowed to choose on my own and he refuses to suggest anything! Yet, when I take decisions on my own he becomes furious and tells me that I didn't ask his permission.
Permission? REALLY? Since when do you need permission to have some window coverings? Go buy some! Pick any YOU want..the color YOU like...forget about his preferences..if it were important to him he would have done it already!

What has dawned on me is that most things are on his terms. The only things that aren't are the things where I have really kicked up a stink (like running the finances because he kept getting in debt). He is Mr Nice when things go his way but he hates to be disagreed with. Somehow, he manages to twist it round and has convinced me that I am controlling and unreasonable. But, I am beginning to think I have actually been a bit of a doormat. AH gets to go out whenever he wants whilst I stay at home with the kids. If I say I want to go out he won't "guarantee" he can be back in time. He is outraged if I work, he is outraged if I stop working. etc etc

Control issues? I think so! I have no problem being second...putting myself behind the what my family needs but to be EXPECTED to do it in every situation gets old fast. Especially when the A thinks everything should be THEIR way...it's always us who sacrifice. It's expected!


Time to go and pack my emergency bag![/QUOTE]
...I say get his ass out..and change the locks. Get your attorney to help get him removed asap. This just can't drag on...he will get worse and worse while your waiting for legal action.

PS: I live w/ one of my own. No concept of time, money...and he always gets what he wants...forget about what the kids need...it doesn't even cross his mind. Thats one of the reasons I want OUT.
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:29 PM
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Now I am going to bore you with the next instalment in my life drama ...

Well I think AH has been out for a couple of drinks tonight (I couldn't be certain but I think his words were slurred on phone when he rang to say he was coming back on later train than usual).

Comes in asks me about my day etc etc. Then says he wants to check about the weekend I have asked him to go away while friends visit. Is it because I don't want to see him? (duh!) Why do I feel entitled to ask him to leave when it is his house too? (I don't it was a reasonable request) Why couldn't I go elsewhere? (uh ... family of four coming to stay)

I got angry, told him not to bother, I would cancel. He says no because he has cancelled his stag do so he doesn't have to miss seeing boys 3 weekends in row. He expects a massive pat on the back but doesn't get one from me.

Anyway, I left it at that. I am still not sure he will go away for the weekend. If that happens I will go away instead! Good news is it will force him to face up to telling kids. Bad news is I now have to avoid him this weekend
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:40 PM
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He won't.

In fact he won't even remember the conversation.

You need to cancel and worry about protecting your kids....putting another family in harms way is NOT a good idea.
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Old 02-22-2012, 03:25 AM
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the best plan is one that doesn't rely in any way on the alcoholic. if you rely on him, in any way, it opens the door for him to manipulate you. best to make your plans with your friends independent of whatever he does.

consider not keeping the divorce a secret anymore. i understand this means telling the children. he is keeping you hostage with this secret. i would blow his cover. then you can be yourself and stop pretending. it will also put pressure on him to do the right thing if everyone knows about it.

the disease of alcoholism lives in the shadows. no one is to talk about it and the whole family hides it. this causes a lot of psychological damage to everyone involved in the lie.
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:55 AM
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Thanks for your comments.

I have now cancelled the planned visit from my friends. At least that way my AH can't mess me around.

Feeling very low.

My MIL now wants to come and have coffee (and no doubt plead her son's case). She is a sweet lady but son can do no wrong in her eyes. One of the times we were having problems she suggested that I wasn't loving enough!

Also, I have been asked to go on a girls night out next week. I would love to go but don't really feel I can because even if I got a babysitter (which is too expensive really) I don't want her to get stuck with AH because who knows when he will actually come home.

I have told quite a few people we are splitting up now but I haven't told many the reason why. I still think some people think I am lying/exaggerating his drinking but then they are not in my shoes.

I just have to keep going I suppose.
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:59 AM
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If other people know you are splitting up, you really should tell your children. There is no excuse not to and your husband not wanting to tell them is just manipulation on his part. I'd let him know I was going to sit them down and tell them at a certain time (soon) and if he wants to be there, fine. If not, you'll do it alone, but they need to know what is going on. They KNOW something is going on and it's possible what they fear is happening is much worse than what actually is, so it's only fair that they know.
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Old 02-22-2012, 07:05 AM
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Is it possible for you to take your kids and go to where your friends are? It's a shame that the visit has had to be cancelled since I bet you could use friends and support more so now than ever.

Do NOT meet up with your MIL. It will leave you feeling worse. My MIL told me after AH was arrested, spent 4 days on a bender etc... that I "expect too much" and need to give him a break. So, your MIL's suggestion that you weren't loving enough is just another b.s. line like those my MIL said. She is enmeshed and an enabler and wants to blame you just like your AH does bc otherwise they have to face the truth and clearly they can't do that.

Get a sitter and go out with your friends... You need to for you.

I have had to deal with the people I thought were friends who made it clear in subtle and not so subtle ways that they couldn't imagine AH being as I described and who clearly believed I was exagerrating. The real friends I have are ones who I don't have to go into details with and who know exactly what is going on bc they know me that well.

I am sorry things are so hard. So many of us have been and are in your shoes and we understand...

xo
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Old 02-22-2012, 07:11 AM
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You don't have to explain anything to anyone. As you said, no one walks in your shoes. I would however tell the children, so that you cannot be held hostage with that information.

My XAH did something similar with me. While we were separating, he threatened to tell people close to me that I had been an exotic dancer for 2 years (to support HIM while he drank and loafed around at home, mind you). He tried to hold that secret over my head and use it to manipulate me. So I went ahead and told a bunch of people, and when he tried to blackmail me with the "secret" again, I burst his little bubble. He was quite disappointed, as he had used the same technique to keep BabyMama #2 in line for several years...in fact, as far as I know he STILL uses her "secret" (she ran off after giving birth to her son and came back a year later) to control her...

As for coffee with the MIL, you don't have to accept, especially if you feel you'll have yet another person pressuring you to "stand by your man" (*puke*).

Keep your eye on the ball and keep posting!!
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Old 02-22-2012, 07:13 AM
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My AH has never been violent before and I don't think he will be now. He has a bad temper and at worst he slams his hand down on the table or thumps a wall but that is about it.
I could have written that two hours before my AXH threatened to kill me and our children.
And I would have thought anyone who advised me to have an emergency escape plan was out of their minds.

Please, please be safe. Carry the number to a women's shelter in your cellphone. Things can escalate in a hurry, and most women are harmed between the time they've told their husband/boyfriend it's over and the time they leave.
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:12 AM
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a girls night out? that sounds like fun!

when i was with xABF, i came to accept his double standard. as in, he goes out all the time and sit at home with no money, trying to keep the roof from falling down. i forgot how to have fun, because so much of my energy was tied up in putting out the next fire or feeling so low from all of the anxiety of trying to live in crazyland.

what i have discovered is that part of my recovery is remembering that i am a free person. i'm allowed to go out and have fun. i'm allowed to do nice things for myself.

my vote is you go for the night out, one way or the other. you could hire a babysitter or perhaps the boys could stay with your parents? perhaps you have a friend who could take them for the evening? or perhaps they could go have a sleepover at their friends?

when i first came here, everyone would suggest i do something nice for myself. it was surprisingly hard to do, but once i forced myself, i must admit, i felt better. freer.

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