RubyVroom

Hello,
This is my first post here, I just found this board today. I am so happy to have found a place with people who understand this kind of issue, I don't know why I haven't looked for online support before.

Of course I have no idea how to start or what to say. Basically I am scared for my good friend. He's an alcoholic.

I'm calling him a "friend" now because this past fall I broke things off with him due to his alcohol issues. We have known each other for nearly 20 years now and have been together off and on that whole time. Basically, we've been together except for times that we've lived in different towns.

I'm not worried about myself. We don't live together, we don't have kids together. There are absolutely no anger or abuse issues here. What I'm worried about is him. He is one of my favorite people in the world and I think he is killing himself with alcohol.

He is a very kind, very thoughtful and gentle person. Extremely smart. He has anxiety issues which is what caused him to start drinking in the first place. He feels more comfortable with people when he is drunk.

He is off work every night around 10:00PM and then proceeds to drink from around 10:00PM to 2:00AM. Every night. Then the next day he has no memory of the night before. Even during the days when he's not drinking I can smell the alcohol coming out from his skin!

Last summer he told me about doing something while he was drunk that was seriously dangerous. He thought it was no big deal. It really freaked me out and I let him know. This made him actually admit that he had a problem for the first time, and he agreed to go to a treatment program. I was so hopeful. I arranged for his initial appointment and he went. But he somehow talked them into thinking he was just fine. He came out of there telling me that place is for people with "serious" problems, not people like him. He said the counselor agreed, gave him a recommendation for AA and sent him on his way.

I was so mad. That's when I told him I couldn't be with him anymore until he started working on this issue. I have kids and I don't want him to be their example, you know? The result of this has been him drinking more than ever. I have mutual friends telling me all the time that he's drinking a lot more because I left him. So it's having the opposite effect of what I had hoped.

He very much wants to come back. Every day I want to give in and take him back, because I know he'd be healthier if I was with him. But I also know I don't want to live my life with an alcoholic. My brain is winning so far, and I've kept him at a distance. But I don't even know if that's the right thing to do.

So here I am, asking all of you.

Thanks for reading.

Pelican

Welcome to the SR family!

Thank you for taking the time to introduce yourself to everyone. I hope you will make yourself at home by reading and posting as much as needed. We are here to support you, and we understand.

Have you heard of the three C's of Alcoholism?:

You did not Cause it
You can not Control it
You will not Cure it

It took me a while to wrap my head around that concept. I kept trying to fix my A (alcoholic), and I was sure I could love him into a healthier lifestyle. In the process of trying to rescue this adult from himself - I lost who I was. I became consumed with his actions and behaviors.

I am now in recovery from my relationship with an alcoholic husband. I also have children. One of my big motivations for leaving the relationship was my children.

I did not want my son treating his future relationship partners the way my A was treating me.
I did not want my daughter accepting unacceptable behavior from her future relationship partners like I was.
I was modeling an unhealthy relationship. I wanted more for myself and my children.

I think you are a good mom for recognizing that your friends unacceptable choices were not a good influence on your child/children.

I also want to encourage you in accepting the reality that you did not cause your friend's drinking to worsen.
Alcoholism is progressive. It WILL get worse if untreated. It will get worse with or without you. That is the nature of the beast. His alcoholism was going to progress if the sky was blue, if Santa brought him a shiney new car, if he won the lottery, etc.

The addiction belongs to the addict.

Willybluedog

Hello Ruby,

Welcome to SR, so glad you are here.

First of all I would like to say you have done an excellent job of detaching from your friend, I hope you will continue to maintain these boundaries you have set. Th fact that he is drinking more now that you have left is his problem not yours, he is an adult and he alone is repsonsible for his choices.

Have you considered counseling and/or al-anon, both will help you better understand your feelings about this issue. I would also recommend lots of reading, especially the "stickies" which are the permanant posts at the top of the page.

There are lots of good folks here, read their stories and jump in on discussions.

This is a great place if you need someone to lend an ear or a shoulder, if you need a hug or someone to give you some positive reinforcement all you need to do is ask.

Big hugs and best of luck to you,

Bill

RubyVroom

...

RubyVroom

Thanks both of you for responding. I'll check out those stickies on the board too.

"You did not Cause it
You can not Control it
You will not Cure it"

No, I hadn't heard that. It makes sense- depressing, but I'm sure it's true.

Basically, what I'm hearing from both of you is that detaching is all I can do. That is seriously a heartbreaking thought.

I'm not saying I don't believe you ...but I do have tons of influence over him. Even his parents are asking me to not give up on him because I'm the only person who he listens to. It would be so hard to just detach and give up. I feel like I should do everything I can to help a person who has always helped me, especially someone I've known for so long.

LifeRecovery

RubyVroom-

I started to get better when I held the focus on me a little more.

Sure in some ways I might have some influence, but how many grey hairs did it cause me? How much anxiety did it create for me? How much did I not do for myself (or kids if I had them) because I was so focused on the loved one in my life who was struggling.

What did I get out of it for my troubles....just my experience but getting him sober for the long-haul was something I was not capable of, because it is not a decision I can make for someone else. I think if it could be done with love we might not have this forum.

For me at some point the cost/benefit analysis of the relationship I determined I was putting a lot into a relationship that I was getting very little out of. That did not happen overnight for me though. I am confident now though that I tried everything I could.

I found Al-anon very helpful, and learning about codependency.

I am glad you found us but sorry for the reason that brought you here.

suki44883

Ruby, I know exactly how you feel. I have a very good friend whom I love very much, but he is an active alcoholic. We've known each other for over 30 years and he's been right there with me for all of my life events. We were on again off again for many years, but finally, I just couldn't continue. He is the funniest, sweetest, smartest person I know. I will always be his friend, but he is also honest enough to admit to both me and himself that he'll probably never stop drinking for good. He can go several months and occasionally a few years, but he always goes back to it. He's been in jail for multiple DUIs, he's been in the hospital for coughing up blood, he's wrecked countless cars and trucks. He's been in fist fights and fallen so many times and hurt himself that I've lost count over this 30 years.

I have accepted the fact that he knows what he is doing, he has the right to live his life the way he wants, and I can't do anything for him other than be his friend. Nothing I say or do is going to make him quit drinking and the same holds true for you. That is something that has to come from inside him. You can't make that happen. He may be drinking more since you left, but that's just an excuse. Alcoholics are masters at finding excuses to drink. Ruby, if you really had that much influence over him, he would have entered the treatment program. He didn't. He may love you, but he won't quit drinking for you.

You wonder what is the right thing to do? Take care of yourself and your kids. They need you; he doesn't.

RubyVroom

I can see I have a lot to learn. Thanks again everyone, I'm getting all teary just having people that understand what this is like.

I found a post that was helpful, I don't have enough posts to be able to add a link, but it's called
"10-ways-family-members-can-help-loved-one-drug-alcohol-problem"
(just so I can find it again later)

RubyVroom

OK, reading more around the site, I have to question some things. The general attitude seems so defeatist. Like: "There's nothing you can do. Accept it. Save yourself."

I guess the difference in my situation is that most of these stories start out with how many ways the person doing the writing has been hurt by their alcoholic. How many times their alcoholic has lied to them. How their lives are being negatively affected by their alcoholic.

And I am dealing with someone who doesn't lie to me. He has never intentionally said or done a hurtful thing to me. I have never allowed our lives to become so intertwined that his bad money decisions affect me. I know to not give him money or help in those kinds of ways. He has never been allowed to drink around my kids and he wouldn't want to.

I'm finding it hard to accept that I should just stand back and let him self-destruct. I feel like I've protected myself and my kids all along, I don't need to know how to do that. What I need to know is how to help him. Is it really impossible? Really?

Pelican

Oh, that is one of my favorite stickies (older, permanent posts that are kept at the top of the page)!

Here is the link:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html

I followed those steps while living with an active alcoholic. I believe following those steps helped me to find my serenity.

I also educated myself on alcoholism. I found a link here at SR that contains excerpts from a terrific book about how a person becomes addicted. The book is "under the Influence" and here is the link that contains excerpts from the book:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...influence.html

After reading the excerpts, I bought the book. It is very informative.

Willybluedog

Ruby,

I know this is so hard, but let me ask you this, will he stop drinking for you if you ask?

If the answer is yes then the problem is solved, if the answer is no then you do not have as much inluence as everyone thinks you do.

There is a huge difference between stepping back, and being an enabler. If my father would have walked away years ago my mother would have hit bottom and either gotten better or she would have died, he has stayed married to her, bought her booze, kept a roof over her head, minimized and excused her drinking to everyone in their lives. My dad really believes he is helping by not letting her hit bottom.

None of us want to give up on the people we love, it is incredibly painful, but alcoholics are takers, they may be the nicest takers in the world, but they are still takers.

You can love your friend, just don't make modulating his drinking your responsibility, he is a grown man, he is responsible for all his own choices. Please go to al-anon and learn more about his disease and how it is affecting you.

We all want the best for you, and for him, we have walked this road, it is painful, we would not mislead you, people get mad, they want to shoot the messenger, that's ok, we are used to that to.

Big hugs,

Bill

bonami

Ruby, welcome to SR! You are in a good place, there is much wisdom here.

You say that your friend has never intentionally done anything hurtful to you; but because his inability to stop drinking is bothering you, it seems that he IS hurting you. I have a very good friend--smart, successful-- who was a coworker of mine for over 15 years. He was always a drinker but it never affected his work until last year; his behavior got more erratic and he finally spiraled out of control and disappeared for several days. He did end up going to rehab and is still working on his recovery, but as a result of his alcoholic behaviors, he lost his job. I thought I could help him--hadn't we always helped each other out over the years? I thought somehow I could save his job, lobby for him with the bosses, do something. But his job was not for me to save, and his problem is not mine to fix. it took me a while and a lot of reading here to understand that.

You don't have to give up, you can still love your friend and care about him and ask him not to drink, but only he will decide when he's ready to stop. There's not really any way you can make him. My friend had to hit his bottom to stop and it was still too late to save his job. I wish I had a better answer for you. Please keep reading and posting.

RubyVroom

Thanks, I'm just new to this. I guess that's why I really need to learn all the things you all are providing here. And you're right, of course he won't stop drinking if I ask.

I guess why I'm thinking maybe I can influence him is that he has tried to stop every time I've made a big deal of it. Of course it doesn't work out, but at least he makes an effort. When I was letting him stay with me (he's always had his own house but until last fall he stayed with me a few days a week) I didn't let him drink here at my house so he wouldn't. I felt like at least that was two days a week that he didn't get drunk. Maybe he made up for it when he went home and drank double the next day... I don't know.

It's just hard to let go of the idea that I can help in some way.

RubyVroom

And Bill- I know your town, I'm in Lawrence KS

suki44883

Ruby, you have to do whatever you feel is right for you. We are giving your our vast experience with this. Yes, it is extremely hard to accept that there is no way you can control this situation, but that is what you are trying to do. You cannot control it. You have already been dealing with this for 20 years. He still drinks.

Just as he won't quit drinking until he is ready, you won't quit trying to control him until you are ready. I hope you don't spend another 20 years of your life trying to do the impossible.

bonami

It's very hard! I still struggle with it when issues related to my friend's departure cross my desk at work. I still think "why couldn't I have helped him somehow?", so I have to keep reminding myself that it was HIS actions that caused these consequences. All of my emails and messages didn't get him to call in or show up when he was supposed to. I couldn't physically take the drinks out of his hand. Even if I had gone to his house and hauled him into our office, the damage to his job status was already done; he had brought that upon himself. I am relieved that he went to rehab, but it was his decision to make.

Your friend is making an effort for you, that is good, but it does not seem to be enough; otherwise he would have gone to that treatment program, he would stop drinking even when he wasn't staying at your house. I hope he continues to make the effort for you but please keep reading and posting here. I came to SR to learn how I could help him or fix things; what I learned instead was how to understand the way his behaviors were affecting me. Sending you a hug!

m1k3

Ruby, welcome to SR and (((hugs))).

To be honest, no, you don't. An alcoholic will only get better when they are ready to get better. I know, I have been married to one for 36 years. In the beginning I didn't even know she was an alcoholic. Then it started to go down hill. Alcoholism is a progressive disease and it will get worse. Visits to the emergency room, detoxes, rehabs, nasty behavior, hiding the drinking, switching from booze to pills because it was easier to hide, my life became hell.

I and many others here have gone through the exact same experience. The best you can do is continue to protect yourself and your kids and let him lead his own life. If at some point he does find recovery and you choose to be there for him then you can but until then I'm sad to say there isn't anything you can do to make him get better.

A saying you hear here a lot is let go or be dragged.

Your friend,

Willybluedog

Ruby,

Did you see the story on ***** about the kindergartener who would not color the Jayhawk because she was a K-State fan, she wanted to color a Powercat instead.

It was a really cute story, made me laugh.

tjp613

Perhaps you should ask your question of the alcoholics who post on this forum. Sometimes it helps to hear it from them.

I know it's hard to accept these things. My son is an addict and I have had to let him go. It's a stabbing pain right in my gut that never really goes away.