Anyone else reeling from the death of Whitney Houston?
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Originally Posted by Willybluedog 
And maybe it is the fact that I am an a$$hole, I will not mourn my own mother when she finally drinks herself to death, I hate her. I have no sympathy for those who choose to destroy themselves, who leave pain and destruction in their wake. My sympathy is reserved for the innocent, the ones who deserve so much better from those that were supposed to be good to them.
I think one of the things that I've learned from my own experience with the alcoholic in my life is that I can hate the disease, without hating the person.
The first step out of the crazy mess we find ourselves in is recognizing that we are truly powerless over alcohol.
I can tell that you don't see that Willybluedog, you can't get beyond thinking that your mom should just be able to control her drinking. Or maybe that if your mom loved you enough, she'd quit drinking for you. And someone like Whitney with all her talent, and money, and powerful friends, and shots at rehab should be even more able to overcome her addiction. And it makes you mad to not see either one of them even try.
For me, Whitney's story is a tragedy because she had soooo much talent, and sooo many people loved her...and she still couldn't or wouldn't take the steps necessary to kick her addiction.
When Amy Winehouse died, I read a really good article by Rabbis Shais Taub that I'd like to share with you.
Rabbi Shais Taub
At the end of his article he says "There is a lesson to be learned from every death."
I know you're in pain Bill, but I'd ask you to let people learn what they can from Whitney's death...maybe it will make a difference to someone, maybe it will save a life.
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Originally Posted by Willybluedog
You all can kick sand at me all you want, I got your point Tuffgirl.
This woman had everything, I understand she was an addict, just like any other arrogant, sel-f-absorbed addict, just like my mother has been for 40+ years, just like Elvis Presley was (a person family friend for many many years).
My point was we all cry over a star, and we ignore the millions that die every single day, how many people cry for the soliders that died, the children that starved to death or were beaten to death or bombed to death.
My point was that stars having plenty of sycophants to mourn them. I am sorry for her family especially her daughter, and will pray for them, but all of this wailing 24/7 is out of proportion to the pain of the rest of the world.
And maybe it is the fact that I am an a$$hole, I will not mourn my own mother when she finally drinks herself to death, I hate her. I have no sympathy for those who choose to destroy themselves, who leave pain and destruction in their wake. My sympathy is reserved for the innocent, the ones who deserve so much better from those that were supposed to be good to them.
So anyway, it is obvious that I have offended some of you by pointing out that your emporer has no clothes, I should have kept my opinions to myself, next time I will know better.
This woman had everything, I understand she was an addict, just like any other arrogant, sel-f-absorbed addict, just like my mother has been for 40+ years, just like Elvis Presley was (a person family friend for many many years).
My point was we all cry over a star, and we ignore the millions that die every single day, how many people cry for the soliders that died, the children that starved to death or were beaten to death or bombed to death.
My point was that stars having plenty of sycophants to mourn them. I am sorry for her family especially her daughter, and will pray for them, but all of this wailing 24/7 is out of proportion to the pain of the rest of the world.
And maybe it is the fact that I am an a$$hole, I will not mourn my own mother when she finally drinks herself to death, I hate her. I have no sympathy for those who choose to destroy themselves, who leave pain and destruction in their wake. My sympathy is reserved for the innocent, the ones who deserve so much better from those that were supposed to be good to them.
So anyway, it is obvious that I have offended some of you by pointing out that your emporer has no clothes, I should have kept my opinions to myself, next time I will know better.
I don't think anyone of us necessarily have "sympathy"...I think empathy for both the struggle with addictions and the family of a lost loved one to this terrible disease is what is being described in this thread.
And I struggle to understand your last line, because the emperor who has no clothes is the addiction itself and the person struggling with it. Not Whitney Houston. And the only person who stands around naked insisting he/she has clothes on is the addict. The rest of us are quite aware they are naked.
I am a military brat whose Dad served our country in Vietnam - 3 times! I simply view the comparison as apples and oranges in this thread. That's all. TWWALTR.
Take care!
~T
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And maybe it is the fact that I am an a$$hole, I will not mourn my own mother when she finally drinks herself to death, I hate her. I have no sympathy for those who choose to destroy themselves, who leave pain and destruction in their wake. My sympathy is reserved for the innocent, the ones who deserve so much better from those that were supposed to be good to them.
I think what famous addicts dying does for me is... it makes it possible for me to actually feel the sadness and sympathy that I often have one heckuva hard time to feel for the alcoholic in my life. The damage there is so... close. I live with it every day. Seeing it from a distance, and especially in people who have (had) everything going for them makes it easier for me to see alcoholism as a disease. It makes it possible for me to find a bit of compassion where I in my everyday life have precious little of that commodity for the AXH who keeps drinking even though he's losing more and more of what ought to make his life worth living. It's infuriating. I want to hurt him. Because I can't get around that he's still making the choice, every day, to drink.
And nobody wants you to shut up, Willy. I think all opinons and all sides of all problems are what makes us think, and grow. And most days, I feel exactly like you.
The media makes a big circus of celebrities dying. On the grassroots level, I still think Americans are a lot more engaged in the lives of our soldiers (or maybe I'm just saying that because I live in a community where everyone is related to or knows someone who's military). A celebrity dying is sort of a removed thing. A soldier dying hits home for me. I don't know if I can explain it but... celebrities aren't people to me -- they're like cardboard cutouts. Soldiers are the guy next door and the father of my children's friends.
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For me: I know what I support and I know that I have cried
many tears this week for some of my special boys, who are coming
home this week in a casket or without fingers or limbs
For me: I know I have not cried over the death of a famous singer
For me: I know I have cried over the death of everyone's life as a human being...
As a parent, I have cried for the awful heartache that each mom & dad must endure this week, no matter who they are...
At this point, I would cry over a dead dog in the road
Its been an emotional week for me and too much death for me to handle all in one week
Today Im having a hard time, dealing with my x's emotional/mental death to alcoholism....
many tears this week for some of my special boys, who are coming
home this week in a casket or without fingers or limbs
For me: I know I have not cried over the death of a famous singer
For me: I know I have cried over the death of everyone's life as a human being...
As a parent, I have cried for the awful heartache that each mom & dad must endure this week, no matter who they are...
At this point, I would cry over a dead dog in the road
Its been an emotional week for me and too much death for me to handle all in one week
Today Im having a hard time, dealing with my x's emotional/mental death to alcoholism....
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Matt said he thought I hated my mothers drinking, no not so much, my mother was a mean sober person, all alcohol ever did was reduce what few inhibitions she had and just made her all that more free to be even more acid tongued (my dad said all alcohol did was take the parking brake off her mouth) and physically abusive, I also don't think (I am not sure, but I think) my dad would have been better to us if she would have been a better wife, he took her cheating out on me, he took her denial of imtimacy and affection out on me, and she took his subsequent cheating out on me, I was the proverbial "whipping boy".
And yes I have come to hate addicts, I hate poor ones al little and rich ones alot, I feel like they are spoiled rotten, Elvis Presley was virtually family, and yet people in my family who were part of his entorage were so spellbound they would go with him when he decided to break into a drug store in memphis for pills, they would clean up the fallout later.
And yes I hate celebrity culture, the media who pushes it, and the people who buy every magazine, watch every show (even when they are rife with speculation).
I imagine God sitting in heaven thinking "I gave you so much, I wanted you to share your gifts, you wasted them, I gave you the resources to get help, you spurned them, I gave you a child to love, you chose drugs over her".
The whole thing just pisses me off, the waste of it all, these people in our lives, crap on us over and over, at least when we are adults we have the option of walking away, I did not have that option, neither did desert eyes, or so many others, our option was to suffer with it until we could fight back or run away.
And understand I am not just mad at Whitney Houston, the list is so long, so much wasted talent, wasted life, destruction left behind when these people go.
I just wanted people to see that while someone who had the opportunity to change died of utter stupidity, there were men, women and children who died doing something noble and the fact that they were being ignored by the media and the general population hurt me incredibly, and I lashed out in anger and sarcasm, for that I am truly sorry.
My passion has been a double edged sword for most of my life, sometimes I swing it without looking at who is in its way in my zeal to correct what I see as wrongs and injustices.
I love you all, you are each very dear to me, you are just like my family, you make me laugh, you make me cry, you make me sad, and you frustrate me to no end, sometimes you frustrate me by boxing me in with common sense, I feel like a two year old who just needs to kick someones shins while they are holding my shoulders.
Anyway, another long rant and rave comes to an end.
Thank you all for being my friends.
Bill
And yes I have come to hate addicts, I hate poor ones al little and rich ones alot, I feel like they are spoiled rotten, Elvis Presley was virtually family, and yet people in my family who were part of his entorage were so spellbound they would go with him when he decided to break into a drug store in memphis for pills, they would clean up the fallout later.
And yes I hate celebrity culture, the media who pushes it, and the people who buy every magazine, watch every show (even when they are rife with speculation).
I imagine God sitting in heaven thinking "I gave you so much, I wanted you to share your gifts, you wasted them, I gave you the resources to get help, you spurned them, I gave you a child to love, you chose drugs over her".
The whole thing just pisses me off, the waste of it all, these people in our lives, crap on us over and over, at least when we are adults we have the option of walking away, I did not have that option, neither did desert eyes, or so many others, our option was to suffer with it until we could fight back or run away.
And understand I am not just mad at Whitney Houston, the list is so long, so much wasted talent, wasted life, destruction left behind when these people go.
I just wanted people to see that while someone who had the opportunity to change died of utter stupidity, there were men, women and children who died doing something noble and the fact that they were being ignored by the media and the general population hurt me incredibly, and I lashed out in anger and sarcasm, for that I am truly sorry.
My passion has been a double edged sword for most of my life, sometimes I swing it without looking at who is in its way in my zeal to correct what I see as wrongs and injustices.
I love you all, you are each very dear to me, you are just like my family, you make me laugh, you make me cry, you make me sad, and you frustrate me to no end, sometimes you frustrate me by boxing me in with common sense, I feel like a two year old who just needs to kick someones shins while they are holding my shoulders.
Anyway, another long rant and rave comes to an end.
Thank you all for being my friends.
Bill
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Love you too, Bill! 
You're awesome! And see, that two-year-old kicking who then turns around and gives sage advice -- that's why I appreciate you so much around here! The fact that you don't shy away from showing your ornery side makes your wisdom count. I don't know if that makes sense either but...
... sometimes, when people seem to be so dang on top of everything and so PERFECT, I can't get myself to listen to their advice. You know, it's like those parents whose kids are always well-behaved and never have a hair in the wrong place and probably were pottytrained as infants... I can't take parenting advice from them because I don't trust them.
I trust people with passion and flaws and weaknesses and vulnerability who are not afraid to be real. And you're one of those.
You're awesome! And see, that two-year-old kicking who then turns around and gives sage advice -- that's why I appreciate you so much around here! The fact that you don't shy away from showing your ornery side makes your wisdom count. I don't know if that makes sense either but...... sometimes, when people seem to be so dang on top of everything and so PERFECT, I can't get myself to listen to their advice. You know, it's like those parents whose kids are always well-behaved and never have a hair in the wrong place and probably were pottytrained as infants... I can't take parenting advice from them because I don't trust them.
I trust people with passion and flaws and weaknesses and vulnerability who are not afraid to be real. And you're one of those.
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Thanks for sharing that Bill. That really does put the "rant" in context. I thought I understood where you were coming from, and it was proven once again that I should never assume.
For me, when I see someone like Ms. Huston, or Ms. Winehouse, or Mr. Ledger, or countless others dying from their disease, with all their gifts and advantages, it just makes me think that if all the people that love and surround them can't save them...then what hope do we have of saving the alcoholics in our lives? Until they make the decision to seek sobriety, we're just along for the ride and we've got to take care of ourselves as best we can in the meantime.
For me, when I see someone like Ms. Huston, or Ms. Winehouse, or Mr. Ledger, or countless others dying from their disease, with all their gifts and advantages, it just makes me think that if all the people that love and surround them can't save them...then what hope do we have of saving the alcoholics in our lives? Until they make the decision to seek sobriety, we're just along for the ride and we've got to take care of ourselves as best we can in the meantime.
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Thanx, Willy. I am sorry that you have felt so much pain. Not only over this issue but over all the "stuff" you have endured.
Pain is why all of us are here.
and thank you for the explanation, and for the courage to stay with us even when we don't all agree and even when sometimes we "trigger" each other.
Mike
Pain is why all of us are here.
and thank you for the explanation, and for the courage to stay with us even when we don't all agree and even when sometimes we "trigger" each other.
Mike
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Can I use that picture?
I just want to print it out and hang it up where I can see it.
And remember which side to feed.
Thank you Bill
and Mike, you always seem to know what to say.
Thank you too!
I just want to print it out and hang it up where I can see it.
And remember which side to feed.
Thank you Bill
and Mike, you always seem to know what to say.
Thank you too!
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Bill, hope there's no harm nor foul between us. I respect the heck out of you and have appreciated your wisdom and sensibility on this board.
And I couldn't agree with you more about our media and celebrity culture. It is pathetic. I watched (for as long as I could stand it) Kim and Kourtney take Manhattan with my 18 yr old. It was disgusting, listening to their drama when there are "real world" problems going on, like people dying in Syria and potential nuclear threats in Iran. And yes, soldiers dying on foreign soil, fighting to protect our way of life we have grown accustomed to and many, I'm sure, take completely for granted. Until it hits too close to home.
I think the death of Whitney Houston hit that close to us here - in the same way that celebrity deaths of old age hit close to me in regards to my folks. Or psychotic breakdowns and suicides that remind me of the tenuous hold on reality my brother has. This death reminded me of the iron grip addictions have on people and that is just plain old frightening. On the other hand, it makes me take seriously the "one day at a time" adage. Enjoy it while it lasts...
And I couldn't agree with you more about our media and celebrity culture. It is pathetic. I watched (for as long as I could stand it) Kim and Kourtney take Manhattan with my 18 yr old. It was disgusting, listening to their drama when there are "real world" problems going on, like people dying in Syria and potential nuclear threats in Iran. And yes, soldiers dying on foreign soil, fighting to protect our way of life we have grown accustomed to and many, I'm sure, take completely for granted. Until it hits too close to home.
I think the death of Whitney Houston hit that close to us here - in the same way that celebrity deaths of old age hit close to me in regards to my folks. Or psychotic breakdowns and suicides that remind me of the tenuous hold on reality my brother has. This death reminded me of the iron grip addictions have on people and that is just plain old frightening. On the other hand, it makes me take seriously the "one day at a time" adage. Enjoy it while it lasts...
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Tuffgirl,
You are very dear to me, I was being an a$$, I was projecting my own crap onto all of this stuff. I am sorry I hijacked your thread with my own issues.
I should be more sensitive to the fact that her death was painful for alot of folks here, I guess part of it is that I was about 5 minutes from death when I had my accident back in 2007 and I just struggle with people who throw life away.
Please know I am so very sorry about your brother, I hope he finds his way to good health someday.
Big hugs to you, thank you for being by friend.
Bill
You are very dear to me, I was being an a$$, I was projecting my own crap onto all of this stuff. I am sorry I hijacked your thread with my own issues.
I should be more sensitive to the fact that her death was painful for alot of folks here, I guess part of it is that I was about 5 minutes from death when I had my accident back in 2007 and I just struggle with people who throw life away.
Please know I am so very sorry about your brother, I hope he finds his way to good health someday.
Big hugs to you, thank you for being by friend.
Bill
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All who have recovered were once blinded by the veil of addiction covering their eyes to the point they couldn't differentiate the true from the false. . The thought that we're like normies is the illusion many of us pursued into the gates of death, which I don't wish on anyone - including Whitney Houston. This disease is an equal opportunity destroyer. It doesn't care WHO you are.
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Read a story in Hope
For Today yesterday p.10 on Second Step- he didn't want to be a drunk like his Dad- but gets drunk on "emotion." I do get drunk on emotion. I think Whitney was a great singer, addict, and was enabled by $ and yes people. She had shots at rehab- was spiritual- but never surrendered probably- never took that 1st step......RIP- there is a hell of a band in Heaven-
For Today yesterday p.10 on Second Step- he didn't want to be a drunk like his Dad- but gets drunk on "emotion." I do get drunk on emotion. I think Whitney was a great singer, addict, and was enabled by $ and yes people. She had shots at rehab- was spiritual- but never surrendered probably- never took that 1st step......RIP- there is a hell of a band in Heaven-
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Willy, that's too funny!
I posted in the other forum that her death made me sad. My daughter is in recovery and, even if she stays in recovery for the rest of her life, her addiction will still most likely cause an early death, too (she has chronic hep C).
All I can do is pray for healing, for all who are hurting.
I posted in the other forum that her death made me sad. My daughter is in recovery and, even if she stays in recovery for the rest of her life, her addiction will still most likely cause an early death, too (she has chronic hep C).
All I can do is pray for healing, for all who are hurting.
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