I think that meditation is kind of like a lobotomy (in a really good way, natch). Learning to keep our mind (relatively) still and under some kind of control. I'm really coming to believe that our intellectual, thinking, monkey mind isn't the best part of our minds. It's just it's the only part of our mind that most of us have access to.
I don't believe in God, but when I started Al-anon I gave myself permission to believe in a higher power...with no idea what that higher power might be. I love the fact that the 12 Steps refer to "God, as we understood him." It tells me that our understanding of our higher power can change, grow, evolve.
I even allowed myself to try prayer with my meditation...and it helped. (My wife almost fell out of her chair when I told her that). But, I still don't believe in God...or at least not the God of my father. I do believe that I have access to a higher power...maybe that means I'm a child of the universe and always connected to it, maybe it means that I, we, have a higher faculty within us...I don't know. But I don't have to know.
In fact, maybe not knowing is half the fun. We're on a spiritual journey, we don't have to know the destination to enjoy the ride.

Oh I totally agree there is no way to think yourself out of it. I had life all figured out "intellectually" by the time I was twenty, lol. Then it proceeded to beat the crap out of me for the next 25 years! Finally, I figured out that my brain wasn't going to save me. My spirit was. I stopped trying to think my way out of suffering and accept that (as Matt said) everything is as it should be. It didn't stop life from being painful, but it stopped me from making it more painful by resisting it.

There is a saying in Buddhism that pain is mandatory, suffering is optional.

L

I've had many struggles with this topic myself. I don't consider myself "religious" I'm spiritual.

As a little kid I lived in a small town, went to church alone every Sunday, sang in the Chior.....I felt loved at church. My parents were raging alcoholics and there was every kind of abuse imaginable. Every night I would lay in bed and beg God to save me, fix my parents. And I felt this warmth inside, I can't explain it.

At 9 I had a solo in the church X-mas pagent. My bro was home from the Air Force, my sis came to town, I was so proud up on that stage seeing my siblings setting there proudly watching. Then in "walks" my mom.....stumbles actually, ended up in a face plant in the middle of the santuary, the pastor helped her to her feet and escorted her out, my bro and sis in tow.....nobody saw my solo, but the whole little town saw one of my many secrets.

I never went to church again. I turned my back on God that day. I was lost for many years, at 14 I started on a path of self destruction. Drugs, drinking, risky behavior, casual sex.

I didn't find God again until the day I looked my newborn little girl in the face. How could I possibly doubt a God that sent me one of his angels.

I don't go to church, I don't read the bible, but I feel God. I have a faith that is indescribable. I trust in God to take care of me and he has.

I've been through hell, but I don't doubt God. I'm thankful it was me that went thru it, I came out ok. Someone else living my life may have used the terrible circumstances as a crutch or excuse to be a predator or victim and go on to damage more innocent children. My siblings for example, one's a drunk and one is now sober but blames everyting wrong in his life on my parents. Their kids are a mess with drugs and whatnot....prepetuating the cycle. I hold myself to a very high standard. My daughter often brags about what a dream her childhood was. That is honoring God for me.

I think alot of life is just perspective. I could be pissed I had a ****** childhood. I could be angry at God. I could resent the struggles I have to go thru. But it's all about perspective....I could curse God that my mom has terminal cancer and won't see next Christmas. But instead I thank God for his blessing that I got to borrow her for 75 years. I could curse God for giving me parents that were sick and lost. But I thank God that now I am strong and not afraid to face any challenge in my life, I survived my childhood, anything else will be a breeze.

Thank you God. I am TRUELY blessed. And so relieved I found my way back home.

I don't know if this will help but I do a Zen based meditation for 10 to 20 minutes a day. I sit, sometimes on the floor, sometimes in a chair and either count my breaths or just follow my breathing. With counting breaths I only count on exhales and count to 10. When I get to 10 I start again at 1. If I find myself distracted by a thought or emotion that's ok, I don't worry about it but I don't pay it any special attention, I just refocus on my breaths.

What this has done for me is allow me to slow down and for my mind to slow down. My thoughts don't race hardly ever anymore and when they do I am aware of it much sooner. I do a couple of deep breaths and usually calm right down. I seldom spend any time on the crazy train anymore. I don't know why it works but I do know that I am feeling much more centered since I started do this as a regular practice. You have to give it some time though. It took me a couple of weeks before I started to notice a difference but wow, it is worth it.


Anvil, thanks for quoting the Marines and for spelling it correctly. Most people spell it with an m rather than an M. So, from a former Jarhead, Semper Fi.

Your friend,

I think the term that they use now-a-days is veteran Marine.

I have to be honest though, living with an A was worse than boot camp. And I didn't think much of anything could be worse than boot camp. :)

Your Jarhead friend,

For me, I took my eyes off God and put them on Bud.
God "let" me fall. I fell hard again and again and again. The minute I put my eyes firmly back where they belonged, He picked my up again. I am keeping them on Him.

I still have faith in god...its faith in myself I've lost.

I've tried to be all the things it seemed my family needed of me. The only thing I can look at and feel good about how I've done so far are my kids. And only time will tell there.

I can't turn on the heat or the a/c just because I think it should be on. I can't go buy a head of lettuce just because I think we need it. I got berated for 3 days running once for buying a head of lettuce. My life feels like a long drawn out process of letting go of everything I've ever wanted for myself.

Now my kids are a different story. For some reason, even though he thinks I'm too stupid to even turn water on 'right', with our kids he trusts me completely now. I'm guessing its because they're pretty great kids. And with them I feel good about how I've done. I can't look at them and not feel good and like I've done ok, at least so far.

But the rest of my life seems to have been all about becoming less then I was.
And I let this become my life.

But the crisis of our childs needs is past, and I can split my focus in more directions again. So I don't have to stay that 'less then' person any more. But it will take time for me to regain trust in my own ability to make choices for myself and not just for my kids.

Believing in god helped me believe my child could learn to walk, talk and laugh with me. And right now, believing in god helps me believe that I can walk free again too.

I believe in a HP. It isn't anything I can explain, but I get a sense of it at times. I see an incredibly beautiful tree, or a beautiful bird or watch the expression on my cat's face. I was taken to church when I was a kid. As an adult, I read Christian and Buddhist texts. I like to read meditation stuff, too. My view of a HP is every changing for me. I have no problem accepting other people's views of their HP because I don't think one person's idea is better than another. I meditate and I also pray to "God." I don't know how it works, but it works for me.

I could see this as a "fake it till you make it" type situation too. I have more to write but I'm trying to find a parable-type story to refer to. I'm afraid I'll screw it all up if I just try to re-tell it.

I'll come back soon and post more.

Good thread.

This story about Corrie Ten Boom illustrates my concept of God:

“And so seated next to my father in the train compartment, I suddenly asked, "Father, what is sexsin?"
He turned to look at me, as he always did when answering a question, but to my surprise he said nothing. At last he stood up, lifted his traveling case off the floor and set it on the floor.
Will you carry it off the train, Corrie?" he said.
I stood up and tugged at it. It was crammed with the watches and spare parts he had purchased that morning.
It's too heavy," I said.
Yes," he said, "and it would be a pretty poor father who would ask his little girl to carry such a load. It's the same way, Corrie, with knowledge. Some knowledge is too heavy for children. When you are older and stronger, you can bear it. For now you must trust me to carry it for you.”
― Corrie ten Boom, The Hiding Place

I guess I have faith that there are reasons but I understand that my understanding is limited and so I trust because it's all I can do :)

A very difficult process is acknowledging our own responsibility in situations. What did I choose to do? Now it hurts to see I caused some of my own unhappiness but it was an enormous tool for not doing it again and again.

I will make sure to tell my boss that the next time he talks about Marine boot camp. :D

And tell him you heard it from and "Old Corps" Marine. I went through boot camp at Parris Island in 1971.

:c031:

Seek-

I had religion and spirituality confused (and still do at times) for a long time.

As strange as it sounds 12 step work has really helped me with the Higher Power concept in a way that nothing else has.

It also got me over the hump of fear of religious implications to try meditation which has been very good to me. I see prayer as me talking to a higher power, and meditation as a way to be open to listening for what I might get back....

Finally for me it got easier when I made it simple. I love a very flawed being. If as a human I can love this flawed being so much I can extrapolate out that there is probably something bigger than me that can love me even with all my flaws. That is very comforting to me, and I have only discovered it in the last year or so.

Finally I don't know if this is Higher Power stuff or not, but I will say that when I look as my life (especially the hard part) as lessons that help my growth I seem to keep it in balance a little better.

I think what has happened to me (realizing and accepting that I was and am dating someone with alcoholism) has been, in a way, a good thing, because it pushed me to make some much needed changes in myself.

I think an important step of putting faith in God is to not blame him. I know I've found that given free will (our making our own choices) puts (or should put) a lot of the burden on ourselves even if it is that we learned backward behavior and need to relearn behaviors.

Combined with that, I remind myself that God is love...there is no need to fear, have lack of trust or doubt that he has my (your) best interests in mind. He will help me (us) prevail.

I find it interesting that from a Christian perspective, we are taught that the first man and woman blamed something other than themselves for the fall they had made. It seems clear to me that I did a ton of blaming others or blame shifting as part of my growing process, and I watch everyone around me doing the same thing at one time or another (if not often).

I was sexually abused before the age of 10 by two uncles, I was raised by a verbally abusive father who was in need of anger management and who had dry drunk behavior (learned the meaning of that much later in life), I lost a child during pregnancy (20 weeks), I had an aggressive form of cancer that thankfully did not take my life (while my children were 9, 5 and 4), and watched my husband go from a social drinker to binge drinker as a way of coping with tragedy to an alcoholic. I have pondered our God through these trials...and I am so greatful I realize he loves me and I can trust him 100% though the trust did not always come easy. I am triumphing through life and I say, how can I *not* have faith. I believe I owe all I have accomplished to my faith that has never failed me.

There was a woman caught in a flood who climbed to the top of her house as the waters rose. A boat came by and they said, "come into the boat." She said, "No, God will save me." Then a helicopter came by and they said, "come into the helicopter." She said, "No, god will save me."

The flood waters engulfed her and she died. When she got to The Pearly Gates she asked St. Peter why God hadn't saved her. He said, "What do you mean? We sent you a boat and a helicopter!"