cagirl

I have been reading a lot of threads and stickies on this site since I was recently contacted by ex-ABF to educate myself and am now questioning how best to deal with another situation in my life.

My mom's best friend (she's like an aunt to me), is an alcoholic. She lives an hour away and regularly comes to stay at my parents house. She has a good job and two amazing sons (in their early 20s) and is a pleasure to be around (even when drinking). She drinks maybe a bottle or two (or three) of wine a day and many shots of sambuca until she passes out and has been doing so for years. She drinks 365 days a year. She's an Executive Chef and drinks heavily at work too, which doesn't seem to be a problem in her restaurant environment. Every once in awhile she talks about cutting back to be "healthier" not because she "couldn't if she wanted to". On the flip side, she always talks about how she knows she's not going to live a long life and doesn't care to. She is obviously in denial (at least to us) about her problem and it's hard to watch. I think to myself how can you not want to live a long healthy life when you have two beautiful sons and so much to live for! The question is what do I (or we) do or not do in this situation where you have an alcoholic who is getting by just fine and has been for years. Now, I know we didn't cause, can't control/cure it. But, my mom regularly buys her wine to have at their house and even gives her bottles of liquor for Christmas and birthdays. Is that appropriate? In my mind, it is not and is obviously enabling. I keep trying to tell my mom that if she's gonna drink, she's gonna drink, but make her buy her own alcohol! She gets that but doesn't want to do anything to upset the relationship.

This has just got me thinking more and more about co-dependency and enabling. I've been trying to soak up all the info. on here and thought maybe a little "cheat sheet" of sayings to keep handy might be helpful. Just so when I'm feeling confused I have a quick reference. I think this would be useful in dealing with many situations, even ones that are not alcohol/drug addiction related. I haven't come across that yet on this site..does anyone know if that exists? If not, here's what I have so far.

I did not Cause it.
I can not Control it.
I will not Cure it.
One day at a time.
Looks at their actions, not their words.
No is a complete sentence.
Make decisions based on reality.
Sometimes the right thing to do is the hardest thing to do.

Any other "words you live by"?

cagirl

Oops, one more I really like courtesy of my therapist:

The truth will set you free.

Pelican

I like Melody Beattie's definition of codependency:

A codependent person is one who has let another person's behavior affect him or her, and who is obsessed with controlling that person's behavior.

I wrap my head around that definition in this way:

If I find myself trying to control someone else's behavior with my actions - I am being codependent.

examples: wearing a turtle neck so a man won't focus on my breast. He may still focus on my breasts - I can't control his behavior.

Denying myself a sweet snack when my friend who is dieting is in my presence because I don't want to make her feel bad or be tempted. Again - trying to control someone else's behavior with my actions.

Do you feel telling your mother (an adult) not to buy alcohol for her best friend (also an adult) because you fear enabling is healthy?

If this situation were happening in your own home, then I would encourage you to check your own actions - are you trying to control another person's behavior.

But this situation is not happening in your own home, therefore, this is not your jurisdiction IMHO (in my humble opinion) and might be received as obsessive behavior to control another person.

I think my best slogan for this situation would be:

Keeping my side of the street clean

laurie6781

The only person we can change is our self. Ergo, your mother will do what she wants to do. You only have to worry about "yourself and any 'enabling' you might or might not do.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

cagirl

Thanks Pelican -

I'm not really trying to "tell" my mom what to do, even though that's how it read. I'm more just discussing/exploring the situation with her through conversation. I realize that she probably won't change a thing and I'm not trying to "make" her change.

And, this does actually happen in my own home when she comes over. So I guess I can...

- Stop worrying about what goes on in my mom's house at all (if it bothers me when I'm there, then I can leave)

and,

- Deal with what is happening in my own home by:

1) doing nothing
2) stop buying her alcohol so she is only drinking her own
3) tell her she is only welcome in my home when she is not drinking

I guess I'm just curious how others deal with this? Is it better to "do nothing" since I can't control/cure it anyway. Or "do something" which will make me feel like I'm not contributing to her "problem" (even though she doesn't think there is a "problem"), but will also be uncomfortable and likely damaging to the relationship. At this point, besides me wishing that she was not an alcoholic, her drinking is not affecting me.

Also, in terms of this definition of co-dependency:

A codependent person is one who has let another person's behavior affect him or her, and who is obsessed with controlling that person's behavior.

I totally get that this is problematic: who is obsessed with controlling that person's behavior, but am having trouble with this: a codependent person is one who has let another person's behavior affect him or her.

In your sweet snack example, wouldn't it just be considerate, not necessarily co-dependant to not eat sweets in front of a dieting friend. I mean it's not like you *need* to have a sweet snack right then and there.

Or if my sister was in active recovery from alcoholism and came over, wouldn't it just be considerate not to crack a beer open in front of her (at least in the early stages of recovery)? What if I lived with her, should I *not* agree to not have alcohol in the house just because I do drink on occasion? Can't you be nice/supportive without being codependent even though you may be adjusting your behavior based on needs/desires of another?

Pelican

In the example of the sweet snack, I recently had this experience in a restaurant. The offering of pastry chef prepared desserts was very appealing to me. I love good food, especially foods I can not prepare myself. The dessert offerings were of the variety I can't find in local grocery stores, or prepare myself without spending a small fortune. I do not have a sweet tooth and can pass up dessert anyday. My partner has a sweet tooth. Should I not order a rare treat because I did not want to tempt my partner?

In this situation, we chose to order desserts. My partner is an adult and can make their own choices and deal with their own consequences. In this case, it meant a little more time in the gym as followup for both of us.

As for drinking around a recovering alcoholic, I am a recovering alcoholic. I got sober while married to an active alcoholic. I chose sobriety and recovery, my spouse did not. I lived with active alcoholism in my home. I did choose to leave, but I did not ask my spouse to quit drinking for me.

I can be around people that drink alcohol. I am comfortable around people that drink normally (without excess), but am not comfortable around people drinking to get drunk. In those situations, I choose to leave. I do not ask them to curb their consumption.

I am not responsible for another adults choices. I try not to manipulate their behavior with my actions. Does that help to clarify the examples?

cagirl

Yes, that definitely clarifies things. Thank you! I totally get this:

I am not responsible for another adults choices. I try not to manipulate their behavior with my actions.

But I am still struggling with this thought...

Can't you be nice/supportive without being codependent even though you may be adjusting your behavior based on needs/desires of another?

For example, I understand RA's can be around people who drink if they choose and that everyone sets their own boundaries. But I always have thought that RA's generally live without alcohol in their own homes. Is that incorrect thinking?

If an RA did have a partner (live in) who does drink without excess and the partner agrees to not have alcohol in the home, is that co-dependency on the part of the partner? I think this would be more of an issue in the early stages of sobriety where the RA might be still struggling with urges to drink more so than someone with more time under their belt, but the question is still the same.

I realize I'm really drilling down here, but I'm honestly trying to figure out where all the lines are with co-dependency, and even thought this...

I am not responsible for another adults choices. I try not to manipulate their behavior with my actions.

seems very black and white, I'm still seeing lots of gray!

Pelican

I can best help by sharing my personal experience.
I also find it to be the best example when I need information - accepting someone's personal experience. I know there are members here who are RA's and have partners that still enjoy an occassional alcoholic drink. Maybe they will reply.

I was also thinking about something I learned from Melody Beatties book on Codependency. The steps of recovery. Recovery from unhealthy behavior. The steps are for normies and addicts - there are three basic steps of recovery.
The three A's of recovery:

Awareness
Acceptance
Action

In my recovery from alcoholism, I had to become aware of my problem. I no longer had control of alcohol - it had control of me.
I finally became aware. Hit my bottom as the saying goes. Each person reaches that step in their own time.
My instinct was to take immediate action. stop drinking. Great idea, but not very practical when I wasn't accepting the fact that there could be triggers and reasons for my over indulging with alcohol.
I was skipping the step of acceptance. I had to accept that I was an alcoholic and that I had a condition that makes it impossible for me to drink normally. I had to accept that the rest of my life would be alcohol-free. That takes a lot of recovery to accept things you have denied for so long.
Only then was I able to take effective actions to recover from my addiction to alcohol.

Same is true with my recovery of codependency. I am aware of my tendency to want to control outcomes for myself and others around me. I tried to orchestrate life with an alcoholic to control the next binge and try to prevent the next outburst.
Once I became aware of my codependency of trying to make life wonderful for an alcoholic so he wouldn't drink to excess - I tried to take action. Stop trying to make him act the way I wanted him to act. Let him be.
Again, I was skipping the step of acceptance. I was aware of my actions and taking action without accepting the behavior was a reflex action. I needed recovery work to accept why and how I was repeating this behavior in all areas of my life.
Then, it was time to take effective action.

I guess the same steps are true for enabling.
I was aware of my enabling the alcoholic - covering bad checks, shuffling accounts, paying his bills, making sure he had money.
I took action to stop enabling. Shut him down. He showed me! He took matters into his own irrational hands and created a financial nightmare.
Again, I was skipping the step of acceptance. Accepting that he was going to do what he was going to do, inspite of my best intentions/efforts.

I think it is a good thing that your eyes are open to codependent behaviors and enabling. Good on you for learning all you can about these behaviors.

I encourage you to work on being aware of these behaviors, find genuine acceptance and discover your own plan of action. Your actions may not be the same as mine, recovery is unique for all of us.

Here is a good post on the difference between compassion and loving:
4. Inability to Differentiate Love from Sympathy

Maybe you are hooked by the inability to differentiate the difference between love and sympathy or compassion for your relationship partners. You find yourself feeling sorry for your relationship partners and the warm feelings which this generates makes you think that you are in love with them. The bigger the problems your relationship partners have, the bigger the "love" seems to you. Because the problems can get bigger and more complex, they succeed in hooking you to lower your boundaries so that you begin to give more and more of yourself to your "pitiable" relationship partners out of the "love" you feel. The rational message needed to establish healthy boundaries from this hook is: "It is OK to have sympathy and compassion for my relationship partners, but that does not mean that I have to sacrifice my life to "save" or "rescue" my partners. Sympathy and compassion are emotions I know well and I will work hard to differentiate them from what love is. When I feel sympathy and compassion for my relationship partners, I will remind myself that it is not the same as loving them. The ability to feel sympathy and compassion for another human being is a nice quality of mine and I will be sure to use it in a healthy and non-emotionally hooked way in the future in my relationships."
This is the link to the whole post:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...tionships.html

cagirl

Thank you Pelican for sharing your experiences! I truly appreciate it!

Seren

I always liked the hula-hoop anaolgy that I learned here:

There is a hula-hoop lying on the ground. Now, stand in the center of that hula-hoop.

Whatever is inside that hula-hoop, you control.
Whatever is outside that hula-hoop, that's someone else's responsibility.