Learn2Live

Thank you for this, LTD. I think this is really key to the issue. My thinking in this regard is she does this because he ALLOWS it. I understand he does not want to "waste" the VERY little time he has with her being a harda$$, but it seems, similar to what Thumper said, that he needs to nip this in the bud. And I think it's very important, given the severity of the threat she made. I don't think this is one to ignore. I think he just needs to learn a little about Manipulation, and get some good advice on how to address this with her directly, so that she understands this is just not acceptable behavior.

Learn2Live

Thumper, Wow. Just wow, thank you You are such a level-headed person; I so appreciate that.

I'm pretty sure the daughter's behavior was not about power, but probably control. To respond to some other posters' questions, she wanted him to take her somewhere else, so that she could do something else, not with him, during his visitation. So, it wasn't that she wanted her dad's attention, or to spend time doing something together, it was that she had something come up someone must have texted her about, which was not previously mentioned or planned.

I do respect that she appears persistent and it does not bother me that she is so. What bothers me is she threatened to get herself killed if he did not do what she wanted on her timeline. I very much appreciate your feedback about my boundary, Thumper. I hadn't thought about her sense of security before and what that might do. Not sure how to best accomodate that, though, given my honest feelings on the matter. Seriously, I do not think I could handle her getting smashed by a bus going 55 to 60 MPH in front of my house. She would not survive it, that is for sure. If she is THAT unstable that she cannot correct this behavior, I don't see what other choice I have??? IDK, because I have never had to deal with such behavior or thinking in a child, only in grown, addicted adults.

Thank you again It is so nice to have folks to run these kinds of things by.

Thumper

That is for sure tough. You could always go the old logic route. You act like a 3yo in the street we will treat you like a 3yo. No phone or texting, no going out with friends, only certain TV is allowed, no computer, earlier bedtime, as a matter of fact a 3yo has to stay in the same room with me all day because they can't be trusted to stay out of the street! That is a bummer for you but act like an 11yo for the next two visits and you might find yourself with some 11yo privelages again. All of this can be said/done with the utmost love and caring. No ignoring or lecturing or anger. You can still offer all sorts of postive interactions through out the day.

Easier said then done of course because in reality a logical consequence for the kid is frightfully similar to a punishment for the parent. They know it too and use it against us, lol.

The meltdown yesterday was because I blocked the computer tomorrow for a different infraction. One he knew would be coming. So tomorrow I will stick to my guns but there will be a show down about it, no doubt about that. I'll have to plan ahead to be prepared. He's a little lawyer in training - and not the good kind!

marie1960

In reading more of this thread, I do see where this little girl is trying to be somewhat controlling.

My next question would have to be, what is going on in a 10-11 year old girl that she feels the need to be in charge ?

Dad could address her behavior, he could remind her that he is the dad, he has everything under control, she gets to enjoy being a kid.

You are in a tough situation. I commend you for stepping back and not trying to parent. I am sure that can be stressful, on you and your relationship with BF.

I hope in the future you find your special niche with the kids, and life blends smoothly for all involved.

Wishing you all good things.

Learn2Live

Thank you Marie1960. Actually, it doesn't cause much stress for me or our relationship, as she really IS a GREAT kid and he and I are both trying our best to do what is best for the children. I have some pretty healthy perspective when it comes to children of significant others so I think that is helpful to him. Despite that my dad is alcoholic, my parents did a good job raising me, and passed on to me an honest love and respect for children and their needs. (Sounds contradictory to previous posts I may have made about the level of neglect I experienced as a child, as a result of alcoholism, but it's how I choose to see things now, that is, I focus on the positive and let the negative, which harms me, go). Anyway, not sure where I was going w that, just sharing. Thank you so much for your kind and thoughtful response.

Learn2Live

Forgot my response to this, oops:

IDK. But honestly, things were great all weekend, then all of a sudden this thing pops up, she does not tell why, all she says is, "Can we go now?" and the next thing we know, she is screaming, "Dad! Let's go! NOW!!" And stomps out of the house. We didn't find out until later that she had something she wanted to do and that was why she was acting like that.

akrasia

Traumatised kids do obnoxious things for attention. There's a ton of resources out there for how to parent kids.

But the above quote creeped me out. She's not a houseguest. She's a kid in her Dad's house. Sadly, this won't be the last time she's going to break the rules and be a complete pain. If you "communicate the boundary" to her that if she misbehaves again she's not allowed to stay there--that's not parenting. And if her Dad goes along with that--well, again, not parenting.

And I don't see the point of asking for perspective and getting all these resources on how to parent troubled kids if in fact you're planning to ban entry. Fair enough if you don't want kids living in your house part-time, but that's a conversation to have with your partner, not an 11-year-old.

Learn2Live

Thanks Akrasia,

She is not a traumatized kid. She's very well adjusted.

I understand she's a kid in her dad's house but I am me in MY house. I think I've been pretty clear that my concern is not that she just 'broke the rules" and "was a pain." The dad and I are trying to figure out the best way to handle this. I, regardless of what he decides to do about it, feel I need to establish some personal boundaries. The problem I'm having is, she's just a kid ACTING like her alcoholic, drug addicted mother (IMO), not a grown man I have chosen to have a relationship with. I don't have any experience setting boundaries with kids who act like sick adults, other than to not pick them up and bring them to my house. THIS situation is DIFFERENT, therefore I have come here asking for ESH on this situation and the Boundary that I was THINKING ABOUT setting.

Learn2Live

Also, she needs to know I am SERIOUS about this, that it is inappropriate and HARMFUL TO OTHERS for her to threaten to kill herself if someone doesn't do what SHE wants. Her mother is notorious for this, but I did not want this thread to turn into a conversation about the alcoholic, because then it would be all about HER, and not the children, yet again. Does anyone have any ESH they can share about children taking on the sick behaviors of the alcoholic? Thank you.

akrasia

If she's a girl with an alcoholic, drug addicted mother, then yes, she's troubled.

Standing in a dangerous street screaming is a pretty extreme tantrum for an 11-year-old, no one will argue with that. She may of course be acting out bad behaviour she's elsewhere, and maybe she'll always be a bit of a DIVA. And manipulation--I mean, show me a teenager who's not manipulative! Again, that's where the parenting resources, etc., come in.

But I'm not clear from your posts whether your query is:

1. "How can my husband and/or I as parent/step-parent get her through this?"
or
2. "How can I keep this out of my life?"

You and your husband share a house, right? He's not just coming to hang at your place with his kids? I'm assuming from the above that it's the former, correct me if I'm wrong. In that case, if you're really feeling like, "No, I just can't be around your kids or share a roof with them when they're being holy terrors," then that's a conversation to have with him.

Thumper

Here is one way to look at it.

Her mother uses extreme emotional manipulation to manage her relationships. It has worked for her at some point. I imagine it worked in their marraige at some point. The father left the mother. She saw this and experienced a loss as well because she no longer lives with her dad. Now she is using the same form of manipulation and waiting and watching. What is her dad going to do with her? Is the manipulation going to work? Is she going to get her way? Is her dad going to leave her? Is this going to work in this relationship? Is it going to get her some control?

As a parent you want to teach her that emotional manipulation does not work. A parent of a child this age wants to demonstrate that it does not phase me and you are not going to get your way. Additionally, I will not leave you. You are not that powerful. You are a child and I am the parent. I am in control and the security of our relationship is fast and true.

At the end of the day there are still two steps to handling it.

1. Agree on a consequence for the behavior that you and her dad can both live with. If the boundary allows for her to return to the house you need to come up with a plan for if it should happen again.

2. Look to see what about the situation can be tweaked so that it decreases the likelihood that it happens again, which just means looking for and addressing environmental and emotional/relationship issues that might be at play.

She is an 11yo of divorced parents, one with addiction. No matter how well she is coping day to day she has some baggage. You can expect some out of place and extreme behaviors to pop up from time to time. FWIW it is my arm chair opinion that if she is barred from the house that is a form of control - hers. She has learned that she can control a relationship by choosing when to end it. An anxious child will control the relationship causing them anxiety even if it means ending it - because it is then on her terms, not yours or his.

I will add that barring her from the house doesn't necessarily mean the relationship ends either. It makes it tricky, complicated, and possibly very expensive, but it doesn't necessarily end it because the relationship is him and her, not the walls of your house.

jOSE2

Dont know if this may help L2L

I have just looked up Young Children of Alcoholics,

The word wish comes to mind here for me- I didnt know enough about how A's effects children.
I may not have been able to change behaviour of a particular child back then even if I'd have known,though I may have handled it better. They say hind-site is a wonderful thing.

Thanks for letting me share,(sorry if getting off topic)
my best wishes to you

skippernlilg

Ok, here's my input.

I'm an ACoA. I remember being obnoxious from time to time and my actions seemed Controlling, when all I wanted to do was find control in my life.

I have an 11 year old son who just started 6th grade, middle school, with a whole new level of drama. One of his 'parents' (remember my RABF?) is also a recovering alcoholic. He's seen his share of out-of-control.

My take is that she is BEGGING for some boundaries and attention. She is troubled, for sure, no matter how well-adjusted she seems externally. (I made straight As, honor roll, never missed school, popular cheerleader, etc. etc.)

I like some of the posters' ideas about your BF's responses being more specific about time. If the time on the weekend is limited with him and with you and you're both her positive adult influences, this is a very vital time for her to learn some positive tools in her life about relationships. Getting 'abandoned' at this age for bad behavior (i.e., 'not welcome in your home') is just another way for her to feel abandoned.

What she did was shocking and absolutely cannot happen. My son also recently made an extreme emotional appeal and we are still working through it here. Not standing in the street, but close.

I personally believe that if she is to spend time with friends, it's a good time for you and your BF to encourage her good friendships at your house. You and he can let her know how important she is to your family life and how much you love spending time with her. If my son had stood in traffic, I would tell him that he has to demonstrate that he can be trusted outside the house, and until he gains the trust, he would not be allowed outside without an adult with him. Actually, in our recent situation, my son wasn't alone for a solid 3 weeks.

Recently, a friend of mine called me about her 11 year old daughter who was engaging in self-destructive behavior (not taking her meds for a serious medical condition). My friend's position was to punish her daughter by not visiting her daugher in the hospital. My heart aches for these children.

She's 11. She's a child. She's hurting. She's looking toward you and your BF for some solid ground. And it will be a long time before she will trust it. Be patient and kind and loving, and yes, get her some help with this extreme behavior.

Remember, this is all my opinion, and I hope you know it's just my ES&H, and I mean it from a place of love and understanding (dealing with an emotional 11 year old).