akrasia

Seek, when someone asks, "What's the point?" they typically mean they're seeing no point at all, and feel negative.

I'm feeling a ton of hurt and resentment in your post. I can't even imagine the depth of pain. If it helps, I don't know a single parent who hasn't been through the "what's the point" stage at least once--reflecting on all the hard work that went into parenting, and wondering why they couldn't protect their children from pain, mistakes, heartache, disappointment...

For what it's worth, any time kindness, love, and forbearance are shown it serves its own purpose. It's NEVER wasted, never.

I'm thinking of you and wishing you happier times.

akrasia

I thought this was even more beautiful than the poem. Thank you.

akrasia

Really? More TV channels, Facebook, and laws against corporal punishment are responsible for kids' problems? I sort of wish life were that simple.

I remember my father similarly railing against TELEVISION when I was a kid. And my grandfather piped up, "You used to waste your Saturday afternoons playing dice on the corner--how was that any better?"

seek

Thank you. Yes, the attachment causes pain . . . hard to let go of wanting health and happiness for the loved ones . . .I know I do not have control . . . no confusion over that. The attachment is another issue. I once stopped Buddhist priests in the street and asked them "How does a mother detach?" They had no answer. I gave them my phone number and asked them to call me if they thought of something - never heard from them! I have come to conclude that motherhood has attachment karma or something - not sure, exactly.

seek

Yes, I was feeling very hurt and negative - so much has been given it does make you wonder - or it does make me wonder . . .Hopefully it is not wasted, but I don't know that. Wish I did. Praying for guidance.

m1k3

Note to those reading, this is from my Buddhist perspective and detachment is similar but presented in somewhat different terms than those of recovery. [Mike, my opinion]

Ah, I see the issue now. The idea is not to detach from your daughter it is to detach from your need for her life to be something else. As hard as it is to accept she is exactly where she needs to be right now to move forward on HER path, not yours. In al-anon recovery terms it is "let go and let god" or Buddha or the Universe or the higher power of your choice. The important part is the letting go and accepting reality as it is.

You may not like the choices she is making but they are her choices. She will change only when she is ready to change and there is nothing you can do to influence that. So, your suffering in this case is due to you wanting to change reality, which of course you can't. So the suffering never ends.

What you can do is change yourself, accept that you are powerless over her life and let go. I have found that turning the focus on to myself and letting go of my desire to control things/people that I have no control over has made me a much saner and happier person.

Believe it or not but both Al-Anon and Buddhism have almost identical teachings on this.

For example: http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Budd...etting-Be.aspx

Your friend,

m1k3

Sorry, I got mixed up and used she instead of he and daughter instead of grandson. I was reading a couple of threads that are very similar and the post applies to both. Other than that the post stands as is.

Your friend,

NYCDoglvr

I think expectations destroy more relationships than anything else. When I made an effort to let go of expectations, my relationships improved drastically. In one case, someone turned into the person I wanted her to be all along.

It has to do with acceptance, I guess. It can be very tough to accept someone who is doing things I don't like. But if we really love someone, it's something we must try to do. Otherwise it's simply about me and my need. And that's not love.

seek

Very good article, thank you.

My attachment has to do with fear around the suffering of people I love . . . in my grandson's case, seeing he is lost and confused, wandering around (literally), cold, sick . . .In a family, anyone is going to want to help get a person like that help. He is young - not set in his ways, so the task of parenting is incomplete . . .and that is where the pain and confusion come in . . .

I guess in thinking about this, if the "child" were 7 or 12, I don't think people would say "detach and let the chips fall where they may." He is 18, and just because he is a legal adult, does not mean he has the life skills to deal with this crisis, thus the concern and desire to "help" and the pain of attachment.

Learn2Live

Key from the article, I find:

The easiest way to work on letting go and letting be is to notice your tendency to want things to be different from what they are and to practice giving up that strong preference. The Third Chinese Patriarch of Zen sang, "The Way is not difficult for those who have few preferences."


Fundamentally, letting go requires just two steps: (1) becoming aware of whatever arises within the field of your experience or consciousness, and then (2) becoming aware of how you relate to it. These two steps can be broken down further into five steps.


•First, practice being aware of whatever arises in your experience--a physical sensation, thought, or emotion--rather than repressing, suppressing, or ignoring it.

•Second, try to observe whatever arises, without judgment or reaction.

•Third, investigate and examine the feeling, thought, or emotion, without bringing external or internal activity to bear on it.

•Fourth, if the thought, feeling, or sensation requires that you act, decide how to channel your energy into action, or

•Fifth, simply release the sensation, thought, or feeling, recognizing the transitory, empty nature of all experiences.

SoloMio

Wow, I was on the same wavelength with Kahlil Gibran, Pelican and MightyQueen! That is the mission statement for parents.

If it is hard to practice in mundane life, perhaps a little more practice is in order. Internalizing the idea that your role is to be the bow and that's it will give you a lot of peace of mind.

Once in flight, efforts to direct the path of the arrow are going to be futile.

I also love that phrase about striving to be like your children. That's so true. I have four children and they all have qualities that I wish I had. I admire them. They do some things I wouldn't do, but then again, I'm sure as heck glad that they don't do some things that I do, so we're even. We can each let each other be.

LaTeeDa

Unfortunately, the only way to acquire life skills is to be allowed to make mistakes and learn the lessons from them.

L

theuncertainty

Of course they wouldn't, because at age 7, children certainly have not had the opportunity (usually) to accumulate the knowledge they need to make important decisions.

And I know it's not the same at all, but when DS was smaller, I often had such a strong urge to follow behind him as he climbed the monkey bars and tried to emulate the older boys by climbing onto areas that really aren't meant to be climbed on. Having me telling him not to do that, or running up to remove him from the equipment before he could try, most certainly wouldn't have provided the same perspective for him as him trying to do it himself. It's one thing for me to say, "DS, that's not how you do it," vs. him trying to climb on his own, not quite being able to and falling. Did my heart stop as he started up with that determined glint in his eyes? Yes. Did I see visions of him falling and breaking his arm? or hitting his head? You bettcha. But, this way, he fell, scraped his knee, elbow and hands, realized where his boundaries are, not where I thought his limitations are. He also learned that I trust him.

Also true that just because he’s a legal adult doesn’t mean he has the same life skills as a responsible adult or even that other 18 year olds have. But by over-sheltering or trying to lessen the consequences, the 18 yo never will.

The main qualifier in my life is XAH, so I don’t *know* what it is to deal with an alcoholic son or grandson. I am trying my hardest to let go of the worry that DS will turn out to be like his father. I do believe, though, that had XAH been allowed to face the consequences of some of his earlier alcohol-induced stupidities, he would have learned some of the coping skills he desperately needs now.

Hugs, Seek. Wishing you peace and strength.

seek

I realize that a person's beliefs are going to inform their perspectives on what is helpful and what is not. Since this is a 12 Step forum, it is not surprising that most people adhere to that model above all else.

I take wisdom from the 12 Step model, but my beliefs are more eclectic. I also "believe" that intense crisis could be what is termed a "spiritual emergency." There is something referred to as "spiritual emergence." I have studied it and think that is what is going on so my thinking about "what is helpful" is not strictly 12 Step model (as you have seen) . . .

I am also a "grandmother" and believe in grandmother "wisdom" - I am doing a lot of praying. I don't know what is going to happen . . .no one does, but I am doing my best under the circumstances . . .

If there was a support forum that honored other spiritual traditions, it would probably be more helpful to me, but as it is, I ". . . take what I like and leave the rest."

Thank you.

LaTeeDa

You may not know us all as well as you think you do. I have never attended Alanon, nor "worked the 12-steps." My journey of recovery from codependence has involved therapy, reading, studying, and participating in this forum and others. The experience I have acquired on my journey has all been acquired outside the rooms of Alanon.

I believe this forum does honor ALL spiritual traditions and is very helpful. And I don't believe that people "adhere to a model" just for the sake of the model. I share what I have learned and what works for me in my life, and I believe that most members here do the same.

If whatever you believe or whatever you are doing works for you in your life, then carry on.

L

Learn2Live

You can call it whatever you want, "grandmotherism," "helping," "nurturing," "parenting," "spirituality," "responsibility," etc, but any way you slice it, denial is denial. Acceptance is not exclusive to 12 Steps, nor is it exclusive to Buddhism. It is just healthy. I see you continue to post your problems and anxieties, and whatever someone posts to try to help you, you have a reason why it does not apply to you and argue against it. That is rather reminiscent of the behavior I have witnessed from the alcoholics in my life. You seem to think everyone is something other than what you are, or something. IDK???

All I know is that by 18, a person is pretty much formed. In fact, I'd put it earlier, at 13 or 14, depending on the individual. And yes, he is an adult, whether you want to accept that or not. He is going to do what he wants to do, no matter what dear old Granny wants, thinks, believes, says, or does. The sooner you Accept this, whether your Acceptance comes from Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Paganism, or Other, the better off you will be. Meantime, feel free to keep posting here and ignoring the wisdom and advice folks here are trying to give you.

m1k3

Not meaning this as a smartass answer, but how is that working for you?

seek

I don't know what your problem is but your posts are very harsh and rude . . . not helpful. You are "taking my inventory." Where do you get the idea that I am "ignoring the wisdom here?" I think I just said that I am taking what I like and leaving the rest. I think that is "ok."

I am working on my own issues and trying to provide support in the way Spirit guides me . . .I don't think a person can do more than that.

As far as my anxieties are concerned, I don't think it is helpful to pathologize someone like you are doing . . .other people might agree with you, but I think you are crossing lines to think you know what is best for me - comparing me to an alcoholic could be a form of bullying or abuse - but since there is no truth to it, it doesn't hurt me - but it seems like your intention might have been to hurt.

Also, no one knows about another person's system of denial so for you to comment on mine is absurd and again, crossing a line. And if I was in denial, what gives you the right to blow my cover? Nothing.

As to the other posters . . .I did not say I know anything about your personal beliefs - I simply said that since this is a 12 Step Forum, it seemed reasonable to me that that is the model most people adhere to - and that my belief system is a little more complex (and no, not "special" for those who would like to jump on that!) lol

I was serious about "spiritual emergency," and I also don't feel it is fair to ridicule "grandmother wisdom." Native peoples put a lot of stock in it and I am relating to that role. Again, that is my right and my belief.

I do appreciate the helpful posts on "letting go," and many other things that have been shared.

seek

It's working pretty good at the moment, thank you Dr. Phil.

m1k3

I was just curious because you seemed to be suffering and looking for help with your current situation. I found that for me I needed to change the way I was handling things before I could move forward with getting better.

BTW I have watched about 2 hours of Dr. Phil in my entire life. I don't think much of him or his methods but that's just me.

Your friend,