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Old 11-22-2011, 08:33 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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I would suggest going to individual therapy with a counselor specializing in addictions and abuse. I felt that my short term counseling during my seperatation from my xah was invaluable on a number of levels.

SR was very helpful to me and I read the stickies many many times. I printed some things out that I felt really 'spoke' to me so I could read them at different times of the day if I wanted to.

I got a lot out of the book 'Co-Dependent No More'

If you want to add al-anon down the line you can. It is everywhere, you just show up, and it is free. The meetings I went to spoke of of a higher power but they took pains to explain that it didn't have to mean 'God' if that didn't fit with my views. There was zero lectures. We took turns reading from the books and discussing that topic. We could speak about our personal experience or just our thoughts in general. We could not say anything if we didn't want to and just listen. I could even skip my turn to read. The only part that might be off putting to an athiest was a simple 'prayer' at the end and I was told I could either skip it entirely or join the circle but not say the words.

I didn't go to al-anon very long because I moved but it was a great relief to have a group that 'got it' without me having to say one word. There is no pressure, no secrets, no skirting of an issue. It was fascinating to see other people that had worked through some of the things I was really struggling with and not only that but see the process of them working through it. The group I went to had people that were still with their A's, some had left, some were widowed, one was a parent, and one was a child. There was definately a sense of belonging that I did not get from even the most supportive people in my family - because they didn't understand in the same way others that had btdt did. Also - it was a relief to think about me, myself, and I. The topics were things I really did have control over - not my xah and his behavior. I was sick of him and I was sick of feeling so very afraid, out of control, and resentful of him for not being under my spell
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Bernadette View Post
I think the BIG suggestion is that maybe you have codependency issues! Like all of us who have been born to or love alcoholics, codependent behavior on our part warps our best qualities, makes us make self-destructive and dangerous decisions, makes us feel ashamed, secretive, and enraged.

AlAnon is just one way, one open door and a plan to address those issues so you can get your head clear. Therapy is another way. I needed both and lots of reading and self-reflection to straighten out my bad habits of mind.

Also I don't think you were being "called out" by someone bringing up old posts. Please do not feel like a fool on this board - we often re-read old posts as a way of breaking free of denial. Denial of the REALITY of the problem keeps us stuck and repeating the same behavior over and over.

You're among true comrades here BG, collectively we've seen it all - and been through it all! Keep an open mind and keep seeking whatever help you can to break free of codependency!

((((((((hugs)))))))
Peace-
B
yes i was being called out. they asked which was true....all of it is true! why split hairs for goodness sakes over wording of a sentence! the point is still the same....

and i dont deny anything either. i KNOW i have a problem. i live with an alcholic... he's a mean drunk. i'm afraid to start over again with NOTHING in my pocket. i'm afraid of making a mistake. i'm afraid of hurting him. i'm afraid i AM stuck. i do not deny any of these things..... i'm just sick of dealing with it all. i am sick of people telling me that i have a problem when HE is the one with the problem. ITS NOT FAIR! I was perfectly happy before i married him....

if i could just make that first move and move out, get my own apartment i would be so much happier. i guess MY biggest problem is figuring out just how to do that.
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:39 AM
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It's my understanding that the majority of therapists/psychiatrists won't treat active addicts/alcoholics. You're not talking to a real person but to the bottle, which is the most important thing to an active alcoholic. Change and growth isn't possible until you're sober and it takes a long time as well.

I suggest going to Al-anon. You are powerless over your husband's drinking.
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
I would suggest going to individual therapy with a counselor specializing in addictions and abuse. I felt that my short term counseling during my seperatation from my xah was invaluable on a number of levels.

SR was very helpful to me and I read the stickies many many times. I printed some things out that I felt really 'spoke' to me so I could read them at different times of the day if I wanted to.

I got a lot out of the book 'Co-Dependent No More'

If you want to add al-anon down the line you can. It is everywhere, you just show up, and it is free. The meetings I went to spoke of of a higher power but they took pains to explain that it didn't have to mean 'God' if that didn't fit with my views. There was zero lectures. We took turns reading from the books and discussing that topic. We could speak about our personal experience or just our thoughts in general. We could not say anything if we didn't want to and just listen. I could even skip my turn to read. The only part that might be off putting to an athiest was a simple 'prayer' at the end and I was told I could either skip it entirely or join the circle but not say the words.

I didn't go to al-anon very long because I moved but it was a great relief to have a group that 'got it' without me having to say one word. There is no pressure, no secrets, no skirting of an issue. It was fascinating to see other people that had worked through some of the things I was really struggling with and not only that but see the process of them working through it. The group I went to had people that were still with their A's, some had left, some were widowed, one was a parent, and one was a child. There was definately a sense of belonging that I did not get from even the most supportive people in my family - because they didn't understand in the same way others that had btdt did. Also - it was a relief to think about me, myself, and I. The topics were things I really did have control over - not my xah and his behavior. I was sick of him and I was sick of feeling so very afraid, out of control, and resentful of him for not being under my spell
i'm sorry, i didn't mean to imply that i WAS an atheist.....just making a refererence to it. i'm spiritual, just not religious. i dont' think i'd like the reading out loud part. then i'll start crying and leave the room anyway.... its too personal a thing to feel comfortable with.
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by NYCDoglvr View Post
It's my understanding that the majority of therapists/psychiatrists won't treat active addicts/alcoholics. You're not talking to a real person but to the bottle, which is the most important thing to an active alcoholic. Change and growth isn't possible until you're sober and it takes a long time as well.

I suggest going to Al-anon. You are powerless over your husband's drinking.
yes, i know this. i want to walk away from him but its so damned hard.
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by breakingglass View Post
like a fool i went back home. he stayed sober for about a day. the drinking is not as intense as before but enough to irriate and anger me. we both started going to therapy. though i know the councelor is trying to help us both i don't really care for the "god" talk that seems to be a big part of his methods. he keeps telling me i should go to alanon..... and most of the stuff he reads to us contains a lot of that "spiritual" lingo. can someone please explain to me how they intend to help me distance myself from my husband's alcoholism? what are they going to have me do to live through this pain without feeling it? i dont want to go to alanon to be quite honest. if its anything like what he reads to us then i just as soon not. i will not benefit from sermons of godly grandure. sorry if that doesn't sit well with some people....i'm just not a very big church going, speech listening, sermon loving person..... i asked him to tell me in black and white....he said "get a divorce". is it that easy? why can't i just walk out?

i hate myself for going back there in the first place. my daughter just announced that she was having a baby. it won't be allowed in the house with an alcoholic by her, or by me. i have until june to set myself straight. and i have no idea how i'm going to do that. i thought i had this all figured out. its so much more difficult then i imagined. what is this hold that this alcoholic has on me?

i cry every morning.... it has to stop or i am going to become even more depressed than i already am.
I had to smile to myself reading your post. You see I have been very successful with an Al-Anon program and I am what is referred to as a strong atheist. I not only don't believe in god I don't see any need for a god in the universe. Occam's razor and all that.

BUT, I can still make the program work. I have several higher powers. One is the wisdom of the group. I had to admit I couldn't do this by myself and I needed help. Another is my inner wisdom. When you learn to meditate and live in the moment and to turn off or at least slow down that delusional stream of conciseness that is always chattering in your head you begin to relax, get centered, accept there are things you can control (your choices and attitudes) and things you can't (everything else). Finally there is the universe itself. To me let go and let god becomes let go and let the universe unfold as it will. It's going to anyway so why fight it.

I can tell you that I am in a so much better place than I was. I am whole and complete and content and happy and centered and serene since I joined Al-Anon and turned my focus on myself, where it belongs.

So don't let the god thing stop you. There is too much help to be found in those rooms that you should let a little 3 letter word stop you.

BTW, PM me if you want to talk about this offline.

Your friend,
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:56 AM
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i am sick of people telling me that i have a problem when HE is the one with the problem.

My dad eventually found recovery and got sober and had a remarkable change in his life for the last 20 years of his life. My mom- who always maintained that the only "problem" was my father's drinking, never changed, never accepted help or made an effort to look at herself. Her codependency continues to this day in all her relationships, including her active enabling of my alcoholic brothers. It's hard to have an authentic relationship with her....

Peace,
B
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Old 11-22-2011, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Bernadette View Post
i am sick of people telling me that i have a problem when HE is the one with the problem.

My dad eventually found recovery and got sober and had a remarkable change in his life for the last 20 years of his life. My mom- who always maintained that the only "problem" was my father's drinking, never changed, never accepted help or made an effort to look at herself. Her codependency continues to this day in all her relationships, including her active enabling of my alcoholic brothers. It's hard to have an authentic relationship with her....

Peace,
B
sorry to hear that after all the hard work you dad has done but maybe in your mom's case she DID have a problem. i don't and i'll stand by that. when i married my husband it wasn't when i was 21..... we have only been married for 3 1/2 years and we are an older couple (52)..... before that we were best friends...for 10 years! it seemed like he had changed over night when he lost his job. i remained supportive and understanding but he choose vodka instead to releive the pain. now i sit back in wonderment just trying to figure out "what the hell just hit me in the head?" so no, i dont' beleive i have a problem outside of not being able to push myself enough to get out of the marriage..... but its coming and i can feel it in my heart. my daughter is pregnant and when that baby comes, i will be in a good place..... and that place is NOT my present living situation.
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Old 11-22-2011, 09:11 AM
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BG, what happened for me was I left when the pain of staying became greater than the pain of leaving.

Your friend,
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Old 11-22-2011, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by breakingglass View Post
and i dont deny anything either. i KNOW i have a problem. i live with an alcholic... he's a mean drunk. i'm afraid to start over again with NOTHING in my pocket. i'm afraid of making a mistake. i'm afraid of hurting him. i'm afraid i AM stuck. i do not deny any of these things..... i'm just sick of dealing with it all.
I understand that

I participated in short term couseling with a very good counselor and she helped me the most to work through these things.
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Old 11-22-2011, 09:16 AM
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but its coming and i can feel it in my heart. my daughter is pregnant and when that baby comes, i will be in a good place..... and that place is NOT my present living situation.

Awesome! Glad to hear your problems will disappear with him! How exciting to have a grandbaby on the way... is it your first? Momentous!!

Peace-
B
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Old 11-22-2011, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by m1k3 View Post
BG, what happened for me was I left when the pain of staying became greater than the pain of leaving.

Your friend,
i think this makes the most sense of all!!! however, i hate that i am willing to stay until that happens!
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Old 11-22-2011, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Bernadette View Post
but its coming and i can feel it in my heart. my daughter is pregnant and when that baby comes, i will be in a good place..... and that place is NOT my present living situation.

Awesome! Glad to hear your problems will disappear with him! How exciting to have a grandbaby on the way... is it your first? Momentous!!

Peace-
B
yes, my first! i am so thrilled too. i may not be broken out of my prison yet but i can say this with all the confidence in the world....that baby will not be placed in an environment like the one i deal with..... not on your life!!
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Old 11-22-2011, 09:55 AM
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Congrats, I have 5 grandchildren and they are great.

Your friend,
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Old 11-22-2011, 10:32 AM
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BG, enough about your husband. Now let's focus on you, take a deep breath I know you feel like you're dying I've been there with the same whirlwind swirling around my head where I physically felt sick most of the time. You don't have to do anything right at this moment but take small pieces of your situation and thing of solutions for them. I was married to my xah for 39 yrs and married him very young so I really didn't know how to be on my own. Fear is also a factor not only how you will live alone but fear of him and how he will react, I understand my x was abusive and manipulative as well. We are here for you and have gone through some pretty bad battles ourselves so please let us help you we're not here to hurt you.
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Old 11-22-2011, 11:05 AM
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You asked what issues followed someone else after they left their AH.

I can tell you what issues are following me. Not implying they're following everyone.
  • After I left (no meat cleaver here, "just" a knife), every time I heard his voice, got an e-mail from him, saw him on the street, or even saw his name on a piece of paper, I had flashbacks to that night and anxiety attacks.
  • I have trust issues and self-esteem issues. I've met a wonderful man who is incredibly nice, observant, sensitive, and loving, and faithful to a fault. And who has had a beer twice in the year we've been dating, and once a glass of champagne. I still ask myself "What does he see in me? What does he want from me? Is he just trying to get me to support him? Is he just waiting for me to give him access to my bank accounts? How do I know that he's not going to prove to be a mentally ill alcoholic?"
  • I expect my new man to react like AH in many situations, even though they're nothing alike.
  • 18 months after leaving AH, I still have nightmares about him almost every night.
  • I tend to isolate myself from other people and avoid getting close to people because I don't trust them.
  • I have a hard time drawing and keeping boundaries. I have a hard time saying "No" to people. I absorb whatever feeling is dominating a room -- I can't let someone else just be angry without feeling that maybe it's my fault and maybe it's my responsibility to fix it. Or sad.
  • I'm terrified of conflict and I have a hard time sticking to my opinion and sticking up for myself.

    Those are just some of the things that marriage left me with. None of those things were issues for me prior to that marriage.

    I completely understand the resistance to going to Al-Anon. For me, it wasn't about religion (I never thought Al-Anon was religious); for me it was that I resented being told that there was something wrong with ME when he was the one with the drinking problem.

    My going to Al-Anon did absolutely zilch for his drinking problem. But it helped me grow stronger, and is still helping me deal with those issues step by step. The improvement I've seen is huge, I've made tremendous strides, but I'm not done or recovered.

    I tend to see Al-Anon more in the tradition of Native culture than anything else: The way I see it, it's really about the healing properties of stories and storytelling. I've healed from seeing my own situation retold in other people's stories. I've realized I'm not alone. I've realized people have dealt with situations so similar to mine they're almost interchangeable, and that has given me hope and strength.

    I hope you give it a chance.
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Old 11-22-2011, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by lillamy View Post
You asked what issues followed someone else after they left their AH.

I can tell you what issues are following me. Not implying they're following everyone.
  • After I left (no meat cleaver here, "just" a knife), every time I heard his voice, got an e-mail from him, saw him on the street, or even saw his name on a piece of paper, I had flashbacks to that night and anxiety attacks.
  • I have trust issues and self-esteem issues. I've met a wonderful man who is incredibly nice, observant, sensitive, and loving, and faithful to a fault. And who has had a beer twice in the year we've been dating, and once a glass of champagne. I still ask myself "What does he see in me? What does he want from me? Is he just trying to get me to support him? Is he just waiting for me to give him access to my bank accounts? How do I know that he's not going to prove to be a mentally ill alcoholic?"
  • I expect my new man to react like AH in many situations, even though they're nothing alike.
  • 18 months after leaving AH, I still have nightmares about him almost every night.
  • I tend to isolate myself from other people and avoid getting close to people because I don't trust them.
  • I have a hard time drawing and keeping boundaries. I have a hard time saying "No" to people. I absorb whatever feeling is dominating a room -- I can't let someone else just be angry without feeling that maybe it's my fault and maybe it's my responsibility to fix it. Or sad.
  • I'm terrified of conflict and I have a hard time sticking to my opinion and sticking up for myself.

    Those are just some of the things that marriage left me with. None of those things were issues for me prior to that marriage.

    I completely understand the resistance to going to Al-Anon. For me, it wasn't about religion (I never thought Al-Anon was religious); for me it was that I resented being told that there was something wrong with ME when he was the one with the drinking problem.

    My going to Al-Anon did absolutely zilch for his drinking problem. But it helped me grow stronger, and is still helping me deal with those issues step by step. The improvement I've seen is huge, I've made tremendous strides, but I'm not done or recovered.

    I tend to see Al-Anon more in the tradition of Native culture than anything else: The way I see it, it's really about the healing properties of stories and storytelling. I've healed from seeing my own situation retold in other people's stories. I've realized I'm not alone. I've realized people have dealt with situations so similar to mine they're almost interchangeable, and that has given me hope and strength.

    I hope you give it a chance.
thank you for sharing that. and i think after reading all of the posts on this thread i just might do that. its true that i do not suffer from many of the things you talk about here. i can almost predict what i will be like once i'm gone... i will be happy and content. i will not fear memories of him nor will i shut people out or have nightmares. i will, however, feel guilty for leaving him alone. i will feel responsible should something bad happen to him.... not because he put those feelings there but because that is who I am as a person. i've been picking up the guilt from family members my entire life. my sister moved away and is happy and doesn't think anything of leaving behind her family....but i can not do that..... i can't leave my mother because i am the one she depends on. so i am stuck here whether i want to be or not. i guess my past did in deed dictate my future because i am stuck with my AH and leaving would be like leaving my mother behind to fend for herself. when my sister was going through a very difficult time, i took on that guilt too and let her move in with us. it was hard but i HAD to do it. i'm always "having" to do something to make everything all better. i wish i didn't feel sorry for people so much. this is my biggest fear leaving him. if i see him on the street, etc, i will not have flashbacks and be fearful, i will sink with the weight of guilt that i will be feeling.....

now, i am trying to find a meeting in my area via this website but it takes me all over creation and i end up everywhere but alanon..... what is the best way to find a meeting????
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Old 11-22-2011, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by fedup3 View Post
BG, enough about your husband. Now let's focus on you, take a deep breath I know you feel like you're dying I've been there with the same whirlwind swirling around my head where I physically felt sick most of the time. You don't have to do anything right at this moment but take small pieces of your situation and thing of solutions for them. I was married to my xah for 39 yrs and married him very young so I really didn't know how to be on my own. Fear is also a factor not only how you will live alone but fear of him and how he will react, I understand my x was abusive and manipulative as well. We are here for you and have gone through some pretty bad battles ourselves so please let us help you we're not here to hurt you.
thank you. i know you all are just here to support and lend a shoulder. i am going to work on me. i am going to work slowly at fixing my finances so that i am in a good place when i finally leave. last car payment is getting mailed next week!! there's a start..... i am going to take out some of my retirement money to pay off any bills i have and then i can start looking for a new place to live. i do not fear being and living alone. that's where i was before i married him. my own place, my kitty, and me.... and i loved it!

and i am going to take the advice of everyone here and give alanon a try. i guess i really dont' have much more to loose do I......
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Old 11-22-2011, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by breakingglass View Post

now, i am trying to find a meeting in my area via this website but it takes me all over creation and i end up everywhere but alanon..... what is the best way to find a meeting????
RI Al-Anon

3rd link down on the left hand side is meeting schedules
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Old 11-22-2011, 03:46 PM
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i will, however, feel guilty for leaving him alone. i will feel responsible should something bad happen to him.... not because he put those feelings there but because that is who I am as a person. i've been picking up the guilt from family members my entire life.
I forgot that one! Because that was the first one I managed to ditch. Somehow, somewhere, when people had said to me about 3,564 times that I was not responsible for my AH and that he was an adult who was responsible for himself, it all of a sudden made sense.

And it's been like that with everything. "You can't teach anyone anything worth learning," an Al-Anon friend told me. And it's made sense along the road. One day, something you've heard a million times just makes sense to you and rings true.

Good luck!!!
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