In a stuck situation and unsure what next

Old 11-21-2011, 01:52 PM
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In a stuck situation and unsure what next

So I had another post where I was going to confront my fiance because of things that have happened and failure to really do anything that demonstrated change. She knows she has done things that are unacceptable and has reduced consumption somewhat, that being said she got intoxicated twice in the last week.

I want to be patient and not overreact but she also doesn't seem to understand that me and her kids are extremely sensitive. She is tired of everyone being unhappy (sent via text) and tired of being reminded. Unfortunately her drinking has my mind consumed but I do want to give her a chance to be a "typical" drinker.

It makes it hard when her mother is her best friend and they drink together. It also makes it hard when she has alienated the kids and I have a stronger relationship with them than she does and now she thinks I am trying to "fix her". I told her she cant do it for me or the kids but for herself. At the same time I know that it takes her hitting rock bottom to realize (if then) how much damage she has done.

Also there are 2 kids who are going through some pretty significant emotional struggle because they have grown tired of the treatment and are now defiant of her unreasonable punishment. Her 14 yr old daughter looked at her angrily when she was drinking and got grounded for a week. She said, I am the parent and I can do whatever I want. Anyhow, I fear that their emotional stability resides in my ability to cope with the unhealthy environment, which is pretty decent until an alcoholic episode that I chose to discuss (I do not call her out on every one).

We love her but it gets hard to love someone who doesn't love themselves enough to stop and look in the mirror. I may have her mis-diagnosed as she is not ready to give it up. In fact she told me that if I am giving her an ultimatim then there are problems... All I asked her to do is what she said she would do. I now realize they don't have that control, and remember I have to live with the consequences - it won't be like I feel good that I am away if we part ways, I will feel the kids and her relationship were badly damaged because they used to just ignore her but now they are also confronting her.

Anyhow anyones perspective will be greatly appreciated.
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:14 PM
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Is Al-Anon an option for you? What about Ala-Teen for at least the 14 year old?

Setting boundaries remains tricky for me, and I learned a lot from here and Al-anon about it. They can be pretty simple, but not easy to do.

The biggest thing I have learned in my experience is that when talking to a loved one it has to be about you....those Three C's have it nailed.

You did not cause it
You cannot control it and
You cannot cure it.

If I am trying to control a loved one with my expectations it does not work. I can only change me.
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:38 PM
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As the child of an alcoholic I can tell you that the relationship is dynamic and volatile and changing. Kids don't remain kids - they grow and change and have different developmental goals to meet to become mature young adults. I wish that just ONE of the cowardly sober adults in MY life had had the courage to give me a book about being the child of an A or point me towards AlaTeen online or face to face meetings when I was struggling.

http://www.al-anon.org/for-alateen

All the energy was going towards my A father - dealing with his drinking, covering up his drinking etc, fighting about his drinking. Meanwhile there were 5 of us kids who could have used some of that considerable energy to our advantage.

Stop protecting the adult alcoholic! Protect the minor children! Energy put towards non-addicted young people will reap huge benefits! Not so energy frittered away on the Alkie.

Not easy but worth it.

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Old 11-22-2011, 05:46 AM
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I understand because my step father (with whom I lived with along with my mother and two half-sisters). I know how this story ends but when I tell her she dismisses it and said the kids and I will be fine no matter what.

As a result, trying to be there for the kids has alienated her and made her feel like I have turned the kids against her. When she told me that last night, I told her it is not me. Those kids have no one else to turn to and its not my actions that have created this. When I told her that this happened to me when I was growing up she said but now you are an adult, act like it.

My response to that was you have told me many times this will stop and it hasn't. I have tried to talk to you about it several times and you won't listen. You have made repeated promises but broke them. I am engaged to an adult and expect to be treated like one. When you say you are going to do something I expect you to commit to doing it.

She thinks I want her out of my life but I am just giving tough love. Its hard to do, but I fully believe if I don't get her to look through clear glass then she will truly lose her children. Its more difficult when her mother enables her and never held her accountable growing up.

For others in similar situation, am I doing it the right way? Should I back off and show her support instead of tough love? I guess I don't want to over do it. She still would rather walk away than to admit to the real issue but I believe I owe it to her and the kids to keep pushing. Her daughter begged me to not give up on her mom even though her mother and her haven't talked since Friday.
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Old 11-22-2011, 06:00 AM
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[QUOTE=boyersj;3178710]
of everyone being unhappy (sent via text) and tired of being reminded. Unfortunately her drinking has my mind consumed but I do want to give her a chance to be a "typical" drinker.

i wanted to try that with my husband. But in my heart i know, he will never know how to be a "typical" drinker. its all or nothing. unfortunately it is us that have to learn to either deal with their problem or leave them..... that is my struggle right now. and i have no idea what to do next.
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Old 11-22-2011, 06:02 AM
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boyer, you might as well go out back and have that discussion with a tree. You can't talk to an active alcoholic. All that matters is the addiction.

I would strongly recommend Al-anon for yourself. I know it has helped me. I am in a much better place than I was now that I no longer focus on my alcoholic wife. It is hard to give up the illusion that you can fix or help her fix her problem. The more you try though the deeper you will get sucked in, at least that is the way it worked for me. Work on yourself and as for her let go or be dragged. Alcoholics don't have relationships, they take hostages.

I'm not sure what I would recommend with the kids beyond passing them some Alanon or AlaTeen literature.

Your friend,

Your friend,
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Old 11-22-2011, 06:40 AM
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I agree with you Mike. I guess what I have decided to do is make it as painful on her with tough love as she has me and the kids. If she sees the truth instead of her illusion, then she will finally submit to the path to a healthier life. Last night she called me a drama queen lol. Its funny what will be said to project to another. Its ok though, I have decided to be strong and not give up. If she cracks and leaves, that is on her. The focus had been on how she was hurt and at least now she has seen that others are hurting as well. I am not trying to fix her just so everyone knows, kinda like an intervention. I have plans to leave town for the Thanksgiving weekend so it will be interesting to see what transpisres. She also has today off (every Tuesday) in fact, so again we will see what she does. I know she isn't being rationale until she is ready to recover but with no one in the house speaking to her it has got to start hitting that point. She also said no one has ever made her feel as low as I have.... again I told her its not my actions, its our natural response to yours.

I already told her daughter about alateen and I think her son just has disconnected enough he just wont be around her.

As far as the "typical drinker" its a step, I hope for her to show a sign of commitment, even if she breaks it. To be honest I think she does want to get better but the alcohol consumption is what bonds her and her mother. I will almost guarantee that if her mother were to pass, she would let it go.
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Old 11-22-2011, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by boyersj View Post
I guess what I have decided to do is make it as painful on her with tough love as she has me and the kids. If she sees the truth instead of her illusion, then she will finally submit to the path to a healthier life.
The purpose of tough love is not to inflict pain on the other party. Tough love is about letting go and no longer enabling the alcoholic. The alcoholic is allowed to feel the consequences of her/his actions.

Judging from that second sentence of yours, it appears to me you somehow feel you can get her to "see the truth" and you are just not that powerful.

Also, alcoholics can never be a typical drinker.
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Old 11-22-2011, 07:02 AM
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I learned in AlAnon how constant discussion and disagreement about alcohol ia a form of enabling. It puts the focus on the disagreement, on the conflict between what I think is right and what the A will say to defend their ongoing dysfunction. Does that make sense? it gives the A an excuse to look at YOU and your demands or your comments as the problem and keeps them still one step from seeing themselves.

It was a hard concept to get my head around but eventually I saw that it was true.

Actions only, actions only show the truth - words are a distraction. I agree w/ m1k3 - you may as well be having your discussions with a tree.

When I stopped telling the As in my life what I thought they should be doing, what I thought was their problem, what I thought was the right thing to do and started REALLY letting them own their own problem, just let it be squarely on their shoulders, it made a huge difference for my mental health. I just stopped listening to their promises, arguments, defending. It was all a ruse so that time continued to pass and it didn't get in the way of their drinking! Because NOTHING gets in the way of their drinking. That's the definition of an alcoholic.

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Old 11-22-2011, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Bernadette View Post

When I stopped telling the As in my life what I thought they should be doing, what I thought was their problem, what I thought was the right thing to do and started REALLY letting them own their own problem, just let it be squarely on their shoulders, it made a huge difference for my mental health. I just stopped listening to their promises, arguments, defending. It was all a ruse so that time continued to pass and it didn't get in the way of their drinking! Because NOTHING gets in the way of their drinking. That's the definition of an alcoholic.

Peace-
B
Yes!! It is like banging your head on a brick wall trying to knock down a house. You get a migraine and a bloody head and the wall still stands. There was a post/analogy about that I'm going to search for. I'll bump it if I find it.

It does not matter what they say, promise, agree to, intend to do, or really want. None of it matters. They may believe it and they may just be saying what we want to hear so we stop talking but either way - they will follow the voice of their addiction.

They follow that voice until they decide to do something about it and we can't control when that happens.
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Old 11-22-2011, 07:32 AM
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I see, so the best support that it sounds that I can give is ignoring the problem completely. Basically never discussing it anymore... As far as going to meetings, there are some in town but she would know that is a change in my schedule and how would I respond to where I am going? if I told her I was going to Al-anon meetings, she would knwo that I believe she is an addict (which has not yet been said).

She did say that she feels she is being watched like a hawk and that if she wants to drink she is going to drink. Why couldn't the explosion that occurred on halloween occurred before I purchased this wonderful home that is "everything she could have ever wanted"? *big sigh* Also, so close to the holidays. it is worth mentioning that her brother introduced us and is very upset with her. I guess it has progressed alot in the last 6 months. The kids even told me mom didn't drink this much, but they also told me she has made promises without keeping them.

Thanks for the support and insight. I almost wish I could print this out and show her but of course its still the "tree" issue. I did say to her last night that if she would have been my other half and listened to me before.
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Old 11-22-2011, 07:43 AM
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Well getting yourself healthy doesn't mean "ignoring" the problem, for me it meant figuring out what I can control in the situation and what I can't. Passive ignoring can quickly lead to denial and that is never good.

You are afraid to let her know you are going to AlAnon? Do you see how insidious HER addiction has become!!!! The As really hold all the cards if we let them! It's maddening.

AlAnon helped me see how to take action - how to be in REALITY - whether she wants to hear it or not or agrees with you or not, you KNOW you are living with an alcoholic and it is affecting your life and the lives of the children for whom you now have a care. I mean that is the reality in plain language.

What will you DO? What are your boundaries? What will you tolerate ion this relationship? Are you getting what you need from this relationship and if not what are you going to do about it in light of that fact that her changing is out of your control?

These are big questions, tough questions. I think it is called tough love because it is tough on the giver - it is tough to love someone while maintaining detachment from their problems. It is tough to not bend ourselves to accomodate the addiction. It is tough not to take their choice to keep drinking personally, as a reflection on our worth.

The tough questions for me took time and a clear head to think about.....give yourself the time and whatever support you need (AlAnon, therapy, books?).

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Old 11-22-2011, 07:49 AM
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of everyone being unhappy (sent via text) and tired of being reminded. Unfortunately her drinking has my mind consumed but I do want to give her a chance to be a "typical" drinker.
Alanon is what I recommend because you need to learn that you are powerless over your girlfriend's drinking. An alcoholic is incapable of "typical" drinking. And, there is nothing you can do or say that will cause her to want to stop drinking.
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Old 11-22-2011, 07:57 AM
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You do what you need to do for yourself and don't worry about what she thinks.

You and her are in a room. The walls are alcoholism and you are walking around bumping into each other. You are doing things that result in more bumps but you are still in the room together. There are many doors out of this room and you can walk through them at any time. The important thing to know is that you can only open them for yourself. Right now you are desperatly look for ways to open doors for her. You can't. She has to open hers herself. Your choice is to continue to bump around within the framework of alcholism - or open a door. Al-anon is behind one of the doors.

Originally Posted by boyersj View Post
She did say that she feels she is being watched like a hawk and that if she wants to drink she is going to drink.
There ya go. Believe her!

Originally Posted by boyersj View Post
I did say to her last night that if she would have been my other half and listened to me before.
Sometimes I say "If only I were Queen of the World" and wave an imaginary wand, lol.

I had this attitude with my husband for a very long time. I did things for him all the time because I knew best, I did it better, and if he'd just listen to me we'd both have that dream life/family I kept holding in my minds eye. I didn't really say that out right but it was implied. In hindsight that was one of the single most damaging things done to the relationship itself, and to him as a person. I suspect it did nearly as much damage as the alcoholism did. I'm deeply regretful of that attitude and behavior. I now make a deliberate effort to respect people for having the right to make their own decisions and being the person they want to be even if I (and half the country) don't understand it or agree with it.

My job is to shape a life that works for me and either that person is part of it or not, but I don't get to shape that person. There is the big difference.
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:19 AM
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I was looking for something else and found this sticky and thought of this thread so thought I'd share it here. This is one of them that I printed out and read about a billion times when I first starting working on my life.

Letting Go
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:20 AM
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I am not afraid to tell her, more so I am afraid that she will realize that I consider her an alcoholic. Its a pretty sensitive situation, and feel that should be shared in a planned and intelligent manner. Does that make any sense or should I not care? I do love her, and don't want to intentionally cause damage. She probably doesn't have a clue because all of her family drinks heavily. She wants to have a better life, but her actions have not been consistent
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:34 AM
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Dude, you are trying to control her feelings and behaviors by what you do and say or what you don't do and say.

The first step is to admit her drinking problem is hers. It's not yours or anyone else's. Your not ignoring it you are simply letting it go. She will get better only when she is ready to get better and not one second sooner.

I left my wife 8 months ago after her last binge. Both daughters are pissed at her and she hasn't seen her grandchildren since than and STILL she won't admit that she has an addiction problem. She has been in and out of detox and rehabs and involuntary commitments and STILL she doesn't admit she has an addiction problem.

So, let go of her problem and work on yourself. I am so glad that I did.

Your friend,
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:36 AM
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I do love her, and don't want to intentionally cause damage.

Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean. Reality bites. You going to AlAnon is a consequence of your loving an A (and perhaps even from stuff you learned in your shildhood w/ an A stepgfather!!). I mean, it is just the reality and of course she will, like every active A I've ever known, blow up and try to argue with you about whether or not she even has a problem!! (Get ready for the "I can cut down" promises or the "how dare you imply that I am an alcoholic!").

Try not to engage in the argument. As calmly as you can say "I am exploring AlAnon for me. I need help dealing with the repercussions of people's drinking on my life. It's for ME, it's my business."

Of course she knows she has a problem. But it is the nature of addiction that if she can keep denying it to the world and defending herself she doesn't have to face it herself.

You don't have to say anything hurtful. The trick is to truly keep the focus on yourself. Not easy but worth it.

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Old 11-22-2011, 08:39 AM
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I totally understand that feeling and felt the exact same way.

We can't not care but we can learn to not take action (or take no action) based on fear of possible future events. That keeps us very stuck. That was hard for me. We can learn to care about ourselves enough to do what is in our own best interest - also hard for me.

What I learned in my personal situation. It made no difference that I said it out loud. It didn't cause any more damange. He did have a clue but he was invested in protecting the addiction. When he thought it would work to agree with me he did. When that didn't work he tried other things. I had to watch the actions because despite the words, his actions protected the addiction.

Alcoholism thrives in denial. The elephant in the room that everyone ignores leads to something for those kids. Don't talk, don't trust, don't feel. I grew up with it and I perpetuated it in my own family.

In my world the planned and intelligent sharing (I was forever waiting for the right time)was code. I was afraid to confront him on this topic partly because I avoided any and all confrontation and partly because I was in denial myself. If I said it outloud then I could no longer pretend it wasn't there. I had to figure out what to do about the elephant and that seemed like a very big job.
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:44 AM
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The best way i have learned to deal with family and friends that suffer from the disease of addiction is through healthy boundaries. You cannot control her or really do anything that will keep her sober. Maybe the best course of action is for her to go through an intervention of some sort. Interventions can be gentle and full of love if done properly. I recently had to participate in an intervention for my brother. My family found this guide online Intervention Guide - Recovery Connection and found it extremely helpful in giving us a foundation on how to go about it.
It is not to late for your fiance to get help. An intervention of sorts may be just what she needs to see what she may lose if she doesnt get control of her drinking
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