Programmatic

My recovery to date has been a process of extracting myself, discovering myself and accepting myself. That is, it has been a rather self-centered program which was a healthy alternative to the near complete loss of self I experienced during the protracted period of time that my wife and I were both actively drinking.

Many changes for the better have come about now that we are both in recovery. However, lately it has become apparent that my degree of separation, "detachment" and general approach to the relationship is devoid of any real compassion.

I think on some level my behavior is misinterpreted to a degree but on the whole I do find that I am emotionally unavailable and mostly incapable of working in the relationship with a "we" attitude.

I think I am operating out of fear that if I let myself feel "rejoined" that I will experience the dissolution of self that I worked my way out of.

It seems that most of the information and experience communicated in these forums is primarily geared towards extracting oneself and finding solidarity as a group of people with a common problem, an alcoholic loved one. I am trying to find a way to work back towards a real relationship and solidarity as person in a marriage without losing myself in the process; without compromising the traditions I have adopted that seem to be working for me as a lone person.

I wouldn't say that I combative in my current stance but I am certainly isolationist which I know is part of my disease.

Any experience, strength or hope on the subject of finding compassion and re-entering a marriage relationship without re-engaging old behavior would be most appreciated.



Oh, yeah, and we just discovered a couple of days ago that she is pregnant which is really pushing up these issues. It seems isolated recovery work is fine until such an event demands the relationship find united ground.

catlovermi

Wow, I totally applaud you for the insight into asking these sorts of questions.

My experience is that it is a balance point, between defining oneself and one's own boundaries, and yet being able to open up and be vulnerable to a loved one in a bond. There is a direct correlation between vulnerability and intimacy - they are linked. But this is a rather sacred link easily damaged and once damaged very protected, so it's fine to be measured in growth in this area.

I have experienced love as a verb, not noun. Sometimes, it comes in the little gestures, the tiny things. But most of all, it is a verb of patterns, a verb of consistently being willing to work forward, to consider the other person, to help - where healthy - for that other person to be happy, healthy, forward-growing, secure, fulfilled.

All these words to say: Say things you mean, kindly, even if you do not yet FEEL them. Do the little supporting actions you would like to do to support the above decriptors (happy, healthy, forward-growing, secure, fulfilled) in your loved one, even if you do not FEEL them, yet. One step at a time, as you are able. Sometimes, we must fake it 'til we make it, take that leap of faith.

I suspect your heart may follow.

JHMO

CLMI

m1k3

Is this an issue because you feel you are lacking compassion or because your wife is telling you that there is an issue?

If it is your awareness then I would practice patience and as catlover said, so to speak, fake it till you make it.

If it is your partner bringing up this issue then there are different dynamics at play here. If she is working a recovery why does she need your support or compassion? Could this be a slippage in her recovery or maybe she is trying to return to the old ways of doing things. Is she asking for support or is she laying her recovery on you. There is a big difference between "could you help with..." and " I need you to ....." or " I can't do this without ....".

Also her being pregnant is going throw everything out of kilter because she is going through tremendous hormone changes. I remember my wife's and my daughter's pregnancies and all I can say is wow. And this was without recovery being thrown into the mix.

As I am typing this my best advice would be counseling for the two of you with someone who is familiar with recovery issues and pregnancy issues.

Your friend,

Programmatic

m1k3

These are very tough questions and some of the very same I have been asking myself.

A lot of the behaviors and words I hear from her set off alarm bells however I'm aware enough to know that I am contributing to the problem especially based on how crazy I am getting over it all.

I am getting a lot of flack for applying program principles to our relationship. On the one hand she has a valid point that our recovery is separate and that I have no business applying those principles towards her. I am able to see how I should be keeping those concepts to myself and for myself only. On the other hand, I have an undeniable fear of relating without a trusted framework of principles by which we can both abide.

There is a whole lot of "I need" and "You should" coming from her. In the times that I have pointed out that I am willing to help if asked I am told that "she shouldn't have to ask". I recognize a lot of this as being fear based. I also have an internally registered separation that does seem incompatible with being married to woman with child.

I keep coming back to a point where I want to reconcile my own detachment to a lesser extreme without compromising myself.

judelabug

I'm about halfway through a book, Disentangle-When You've Lost Yourself in Someone Else by Nancy L. Johnston (I can't add the link as my post count isn't yet up to 15) which addresses these issues in the context of 12-Step Recovery. The author uses situations, questions to think through and some how-to advice in what she calls the 4 Areas of Work: Facing Illusions, Detaching, Setting Healthy Boundaries and Developing Spirituality. The material is based on her working through issues with her RAH and from her work with codependence as a therapist.

You might find it helpful.

m1k3

I am separated from my wife but had a few get togethers with her just to see. I was getting a whole bunch of "I need" and "I can't .... without your support" and so on. I choose to interpret them as manipulation. She was still playing the old dominance games. I don't care to play them any more. I felt that if she was working her recovery she wouldn't be playing the guilt card anymore and focusing on herself. When she says "I need" and I agree to it I am now assuming responsibility for her happiness, again. I already know how well that worked the first time.

Just my experience on what has been happening with me and how I am dealing with it.

Your friend,

Tuffgirl

Wow! Congratulations! But yes - that's a huge life changing event that requires some changes in a marriage.

My EH&S so far. It's been one year of sobriety for my husband. He was divorcing me (again) which started in September. Now he wants to stop that process and re-think it all. We've been living separately since January.

"Isolated recovery work" is what we have had the entire year he's been sober and in AA. I would go as far as to say its been "judgmental recovery work"...him in regards to Al-Anon and me questioning if he is learning anything in AA. We rarely talked about anything regarding our own experiences, and I do believe it was isolating and damaging to our relationship. But we needed to find some way to stay hands-off the others recovery processes, and for a while this approach seemed to be working.

This time around - looking at what we both want and need, I've come to the conclusion that the isolation that served us well in the first year isn't going to cut it in the second year. I offered up to him the opportunity to go to marriage counseling or we - as smart literate people ourselves - can begin to work through our issues together, using recovery tools and literature. This was just a few days ago so I have no idea if it'll be successful...more to be revealed on that...

There are lots of great books out there integrating emotional sobriety skills with physical sobriety skills...and many on successful marriage/communication/etc. skills. Instead of $150 an hour for a person to teach us and mediate the sharing, I am going to try the books first. $150 will buy a boatload of books! But it means being acutely aware of our patterns, and being understanding and compassionate toward each other, and lastly but in my mind most importantly, having forgiveness. Leave the past in the past. Talk about it in past terms and only address what may be relevant (like patterns) while leaving the emotions and old wounds there. Keep the focus on today and tomorrow. And always stay on our own side of the street. And our own personal needs in regards to our respective programs are the priority, everything else falls behind that need.

Again, I don't know if this will be successful, but I do believe it is worth a try. Heck, I have nothing to lose at this point, right? And we are taking it one day at a time. We have the rest of our lives to be married - there is no rush.

Having a baby doesn't mean you have to become a super couple...take it one day at a time. And again, congrats!