What is rock bottom
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by suki44883 
It didn't sound negative to me. And anvil is right...you HAVE come a long way, baby! 
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 141
Originally Posted by dollydo
As is Dr. Millam entitled to his opinion, many other published experts in the field of addiction have the opposite opinion, I guess we can choose to believe our own truth.
IMO you, Panther, have repeatedly expressed yourself as a self proclaimed expert in the field of addiction, what exactly are your credentials?
IMO you, Panther, have repeatedly expressed yourself as a self proclaimed expert in the field of addiction, what exactly are your credentials?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Wifeypoo? Hanginthere?
I am so sorry that you are going thru such pain with your loved ones. I've been through it with my biological parents, uncles, aunts and not too long ago with my ex-wife. As you can see, the term "rock bottom" stirs up a lot of emotion in a lot of people.
Addiction is a very complicated disease, and there are a lot of terms that get used to help make sense of behavior that is completely insane. That is why there is such a huge amount of help out there for those of us who have a loved one that is addicted. There are entire shelves in the bookstore, there are hundreds of hospital where you can toss them in, there are world wide organizations like Al-anon, CODA, and more recently Celebrate Recovery, there's shrinks and counselors and social workers. Even TV talk show hosts are trying to help.
If addiction were easy, none of that would be necessary.
The answer is actually simple. Their behavior _hurts_ those of us who love them. It is deeply painful. Because we love them, we care about their well-being.
The solution is also simple, but it takes a lot of work. First, educate yourself about addiction. SR is a great place to start, but it is only a start. Find some local meetings of any of the support groups. Read their books, their pamphlets. Attend several meetings, not to share but simply to listen. If you can see a counselor or therapist that specializes in addiction so you get the professional perspective. If one of the self-help groups is a good fit for you then keep going to meetings for a few months.
Think of it as having a child with some ugly disease. As a parent you would learn everything you can about the disease, and quickly too.
Second, make a plan. But you have to become educated first in order to know which options meet your particular needs. Call a domestic violence shelter, not to go there but to ask them what your options are. Call a lawyer, not to file papers but to see what choices you have. Visit a treatment center, to see what they can provide you. Think of all those organization as hired help, they have services you can use but you need to interview them first. Then with the education you have obtained for yourself and a list of services in your part of the world you can make a plan.
If one of those self-help groups was a good fit you might find somebody else to compare notes with. Some of the domestic violence centers have plans all written up and ready to go.
Third, do the actions you worked out in your plan. Maybe the plan is to talk to your loved ones medical doctor, maybe the plan is to start a separate savings account, maybe it's to go vist a relative once a month just for your own piece of mind. Whatever it is, take a _small_ action according to your plan. And then another small step, and another.
If you browse around the threads here on SR, and listen to people in real life meetings, you will see that little by little everybody follows those steps, more or less, given a lot of flexibility into how and when and why. Everybody who does those things figures out answers to their own particular situation, and finds a way to deal with the problem in whatever way fits their needs. Some people stay with the alcoholic forever, some divorce, some throw them out, some set up "boundaries" and "consequences". I know one couple who divorced and married _five_ times, to each other.
It really doesn't matter _what_ you do. What matters is that _you_ find out what your options are and what _you_ decide is right for your needs. Not what anybody else says.
As you work your way thru your journey we will be here. Going thru our own journeys. Some will be supportive. Some are not very pleasant people, but they still care, they just are terrible at social skills. Please continue to ask whatever question you have, and do disregard the angry, strident voices. Give yourself a little time and you will also find solutions to the horror of loving someone with an addiction.
There's 80,000 members here who are doing exactly that, so you are not alone.
Mike
Moderator, Sober Recovery
I am so sorry that you are going thru such pain with your loved ones. I've been through it with my biological parents, uncles, aunts and not too long ago with my ex-wife. As you can see, the term "rock bottom" stirs up a lot of emotion in a lot of people.
Addiction is a very complicated disease, and there are a lot of terms that get used to help make sense of behavior that is completely insane. That is why there is such a huge amount of help out there for those of us who have a loved one that is addicted. There are entire shelves in the bookstore, there are hundreds of hospital where you can toss them in, there are world wide organizations like Al-anon, CODA, and more recently Celebrate Recovery, there's shrinks and counselors and social workers. Even TV talk show hosts are trying to help.
If addiction were easy, none of that would be necessary.
The answer is actually simple. Their behavior _hurts_ those of us who love them. It is deeply painful. Because we love them, we care about their well-being.
The solution is also simple, but it takes a lot of work. First, educate yourself about addiction. SR is a great place to start, but it is only a start. Find some local meetings of any of the support groups. Read their books, their pamphlets. Attend several meetings, not to share but simply to listen. If you can see a counselor or therapist that specializes in addiction so you get the professional perspective. If one of the self-help groups is a good fit for you then keep going to meetings for a few months.
Think of it as having a child with some ugly disease. As a parent you would learn everything you can about the disease, and quickly too.
Second, make a plan. But you have to become educated first in order to know which options meet your particular needs. Call a domestic violence shelter, not to go there but to ask them what your options are. Call a lawyer, not to file papers but to see what choices you have. Visit a treatment center, to see what they can provide you. Think of all those organization as hired help, they have services you can use but you need to interview them first. Then with the education you have obtained for yourself and a list of services in your part of the world you can make a plan.
If one of those self-help groups was a good fit you might find somebody else to compare notes with. Some of the domestic violence centers have plans all written up and ready to go.
Third, do the actions you worked out in your plan. Maybe the plan is to talk to your loved ones medical doctor, maybe the plan is to start a separate savings account, maybe it's to go vist a relative once a month just for your own piece of mind. Whatever it is, take a _small_ action according to your plan. And then another small step, and another.
If you browse around the threads here on SR, and listen to people in real life meetings, you will see that little by little everybody follows those steps, more or less, given a lot of flexibility into how and when and why. Everybody who does those things figures out answers to their own particular situation, and finds a way to deal with the problem in whatever way fits their needs. Some people stay with the alcoholic forever, some divorce, some throw them out, some set up "boundaries" and "consequences". I know one couple who divorced and married _five_ times, to each other.
It really doesn't matter _what_ you do. What matters is that _you_ find out what your options are and what _you_ decide is right for your needs. Not what anybody else says.
As you work your way thru your journey we will be here. Going thru our own journeys. Some will be supportive. Some are not very pleasant people, but they still care, they just are terrible at social skills. Please continue to ask whatever question you have, and do disregard the angry, strident voices. Give yourself a little time and you will also find solutions to the horror of loving someone with an addiction.
There's 80,000 members here who are doing exactly that, so you are not alone.
Mike
Moderator, Sober Recovery
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
My 'rock bottom' as a loved one was 'waking up' to the reality of my life and that I could not live another year like that (or another month or minute). I felt like I was one thread away from completely unraveling. I was utterly exhausted in every way imaginable and felt so lost and confused. I knew that no matter what the cost was, I must do something about it. I didn't know exactly what that was but I had to figure it out.
I'm sorry your loved one's are still spiraling. It is hard to see that and, for me, even harder to wrap my head around.
I'm sorry your loved one's are still spiraling. It is hard to see that and, for me, even harder to wrap my head around.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 141
Originally Posted by choublak
As have you and everyone else on here; and from what I've read, Melody Beattie doesn't really have any "credentials" either...she was a staff writer who one day decided to write about codependency. Not to mention I've seen some people on here quoting stuff from Dr. Phil and The Tyra Banks Show. What credentials do they have?
I had to look up what you said about Melody Beattie - it seems you are right. She was a nonprofessional when she wrote that book. It seemed the only experience she had prior to writing that book was Alanon and being married to someone who was an alcoholic. I had always assumed she had her doctorate - funny.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: England
Posts: 116
My Rock-Bottom came for me- when I realized I had to take my focus off the A,and put it where it belonged ,on me- I became so sick and tired of being worn out and knew I needed to find help for me,nothing was ever going to change concerning the A in my life at that time, so I had to make that change.
I really dont know what it maybe called -for me its just a short phrase that summed up that I'd had enough of going round in circles's
I really dont know what it maybe called -for me its just a short phrase that summed up that I'd had enough of going round in circles's
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 14
Thank you Anvilhead...
It was not my intention to create so much controversy!! Thank you all for you opinions... I understand everyone is different, i was simply wondering aloud how far he will left his life implode before doing something different. I chose to escape (for lack of a better word) my marriage to an A, and my girls and I are living a better life because of it. Our worriers are finally just worries and scary anymore!!!!
Panther- He has been to rehab and has the tools. I will NOT be staging an intervention for him. I have spent the last 15+ years of my life doing just that. I have learned the hard lesson that i CANNOT control this disease, to the demise of my marriage and the verbal abuse of myself and my children.
It was not my intention to create so much controversy!! Thank you all for you opinions... I understand everyone is different, i was simply wondering aloud how far he will left his life implode before doing something different. I chose to escape (for lack of a better word) my marriage to an A, and my girls and I are living a better life because of it. Our worriers are finally just worries and scary anymore!!!!
Panther- He has been to rehab and has the tools. I will NOT be staging an intervention for him. I have spent the last 15+ years of my life doing just that. I have learned the hard lesson that i CANNOT control this disease, to the demise of my marriage and the verbal abuse of myself and my children.
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
Originally Posted by wifeypoo
Thank you Anvilhead...
It was not my intention to create so much controversy!! Thank you all for you opinions... I understand everyone is different, i was simply wondering aloud how far he will left his life implode before doing something different. I chose to escape (for lack of a better word) my marriage to an A, and my girls and I are living a better life because of it. Our worriers are finally just worries and scary anymore!!!!
Panther- He has been to rehab and has the tools. I will NOT be staging an intervention for him. I have spent the last 15+ years of my life doing just that. I have learned the hard lesson that i CANNOT control this disease, to the demise of my marriage and the verbal abuse of myself and my children.
It was not my intention to create so much controversy!! Thank you all for you opinions... I understand everyone is different, i was simply wondering aloud how far he will left his life implode before doing something different. I chose to escape (for lack of a better word) my marriage to an A, and my girls and I are living a better life because of it. Our worriers are finally just worries and scary anymore!!!!
Panther- He has been to rehab and has the tools. I will NOT be staging an intervention for him. I have spent the last 15+ years of my life doing just that. I have learned the hard lesson that i CANNOT control this disease, to the demise of my marriage and the verbal abuse of myself and my children.
As for controversy, don't worry about it. One of the big things both here and AlAnon is take what you want and leave the rest.
Just apply that to other people's posts, including mine, and you'll be just fine.
Your friend,
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
(((Wifey-poo))) - you didn't cause any controversy. I'm glad you and your daughters are letting him deal with his life and moving on with yours. There's nothing wrong with coming here and "wondering out loud"..done it myself, and have learned quite a bit.
As a reminder to others, this is a place to share OUR ES&H and what has helped us. My recovery has taught me I'm not going to agree with everyone. It's okay to "agree to disagree". There are thousands of members, here, and there are probably thousands more who are lurking (as I did for over a year).
I finally signed on because so many people here had what I wanted. I'd like to think that others out there, who are struggling, can feel the same way.
Hugs and prayers,
AMy
As a reminder to others, this is a place to share OUR ES&H and what has helped us. My recovery has taught me I'm not going to agree with everyone. It's okay to "agree to disagree". There are thousands of members, here, and there are probably thousands more who are lurking (as I did for over a year).
I finally signed on because so many people here had what I wanted. I'd like to think that others out there, who are struggling, can feel the same way.
Hugs and prayers,
AMy
Today is a New Day
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,766
Originally Posted by Panther
I had to look up what you said about Melody Beattie - it seems you are right. She was a nonprofessional when she wrote that book. It seemed the only experience she had prior to writing that book was Alanon and being married to someone who was an alcoholic. I had always assumed she had her doctorate - funny.
Beattie began drinking at age 12, was a full-blown alcoholic by age 13, and a junkie by 18, even as she graduated from high school with honors. She ran with a crowd called “The Minnesota Mafia” who robbed pharmacies to get drugs. After several arrests, a judge mandated that she had to “go to treatment for as long as it takes or go to jail.”
http://melodybeattie.com/about-2/
(((Wifey-poo)))
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