Hanginthere

I would appreciate anyone who may have some advice.

My brother is a long time alcoholic who, I feel, is slipping away, once again.

Last year, me and his grown kids and a few other family members had an intervention and we finally got him to go into treatment last year after many, many times of trying to get through to him. Even our childhood friend who is a pastor has been with me though this all along, trying to get through to him.

My brother's drinking addiction was so bad that when he ran out of money and didn’t have any more means to drink, he had a seizure in my house as I was giving him a place to stay one weekend and we had to have the ambulance put in him in the ER for about three days………, so after that, he then finally agreed to go to a treatment facility for about a month and a half while I paid his bills to keep his land and home from being repossessed.

He completed the program, got out of the treatment, even though the councelors thought he needed further counceling and a psychiatric evaluation, which he refused to do, and says he don’t need. He got a job for about two months, got his ex wife to give him another chance, and moved back in with her. And the drinking then started all over again………
He is living now in the house his ex wife moved out of. She partially due to not being able to afford it any longer, but also she left in order to get away from him and his drinking abuse for the second time. The house he is now alone in has no power, no water, and the weather is getting colder as the days pass and winter comes closer. I keep telling him he has a drinking problem and he refuses to discuss it and says I am *running him down* by merely trying to get him to acknowledge that he’s drinking himself to death, and doing further damage to his probably already hindered mind. I offer to take him to a detox center whenever he’s ready to go, but he don’t want to talk about it and gets mad and hangs up when the subject comes up. I feel I do him no good by merely shooting the bull with him when he feels like he wants to call me (I am now one of the last remaining family members he has left that’ll have anything to do with him), and I can’t just overlook the fact that he is drinking himself closer to an early grave with each passing day as he keeps gets drunk on whatever money he can get. Be it pawning things that don’t belong to him, or whatever……….

He looks worse and worse and was told by a doctor about three years ago to refrain from alcohol due to his liver enzymes being way too high. In addition to the treatment councerlers thought he may have karsakoff syndrome (sp?) from the long term drinking……and yet he say's hes fine and keeps drinking every time he can muster the money by whatever means…………usually every day he manages to get money somehow. I have taken him food to eat twice a couple of days ago, as he's desperate and has nothing........but a desire to drink....

Any advice on what to do? I feel I’ve already done all I can, and its up to him to hit his *rock bottom*, but I am not sure if his rock bottom will be death, itself, given his detachment with reality most of the time. WHen he's drunk he sees spirits, ghosts, angels, and even claims to have a sixth sense. His detachment from reality when he's drunk seems to be getting worse. He will lie and tell you he has not drank anything when its obvious he's half drunk as he's saying it.

As for me, I realize you can do only so much for someone that don't want help..............I went to a al anon meeting one time, but they didn’t have anything to say that I already didn’t know from first hand experience. I know I can’t let someone else pull me down too, and I am not doing that. I am living my life to the fullest and realize I can’t change his life FOR him, but any advice on any last ditch effor to get through to someone this bad off?

Sorry for the jumbled timeframe and sequence of events, but I hope you get the story well enough to understand how bad off he is.

Willybluedog

Hanginthere, so sorry for both you and your brother.

I wish I had some advice on how to help your brother but I don't.

My mom is doing the same thing to herself, I am finally learning to let go, above all I have excused myself from any further thoughts of responsibility for her drinking.

You cannot make your brother do anything, you cannot fix him, only he can do it.

Please take care of yourself, I know al-anon does not help everyone, I have found these boards to be filled with wonderful caring folks who have helped me tremendously, I hope you find that same comfort.

Please know that I will be happy to listen if you want to talk,

Peace be with you,

Bill

Hopeworks

Check with your clerk or an attorney to see what legal avenues you have. In florida a relative can obtain a marchman act order from the court to get an addicted person in danger evaluated and treatment court ordered.

An addict whose brain is hijacked may be unable to stop without such help. However, an addict who is not the least bit interested in sobriety will just be a hostile captive taking up a bed that someone else who really wants help could use.

A good book to read is "No More Letting Go by Debra Jay

Hanginthere

Yes, you are exactly right. The only person who can make the decision and effort to change his course is him. We have already been down that road before and it abosultely drained us all, but we got him to go to treatment.

But now that he's back drinking so heavily again, it makes us realize that all out efforts to get him into treatment was not because HE realized HE needed to go. He mainly went because he wanted me to pay his bills while he was in treatement. If he's to stop, HE has to WANT to stop. But it seems he don't want to stop, or even acklowledge the problem, as riduculously obvious as it is to ANYone. But yet he wants to call and beg family members to let him stay with them, but then gets mad and hangs up if you bring up his dire need to stop the alcoholism.

Its heartbreaking and frustrating that life can mean so little to these poor people.

Hopeworks, thanks. A familly friend is an attourney and was going to see if he could have him forcefully put in treatment, deeming him a threat to himself and others, but he didn't think he could. That was the first go round last year. But here we are again, so I think I'll call him again and see what he says this time. But I couldnt' afford an legal fees at this point.I have went back to get my BA in business and have all I can say grace over, myself. But I hate to see my brother kill himself and it looks like that's what he's in the process of doing, once again.

Panther

Hangin -

I think that you have done a good deal so far.

The reality is this, if your brother keeps drinking he will die. And from what you posted it seems he doesn't have too much longer as his liver is already failing.

Dealing with alcoholism is like dealing with cancer. It is an ongoing battle.

My advice is to get him into another treatment plan, but this time make sure it is for at least 3 months. They have done research on rehabs and found that the length of stay is the best indicator of how well the addict will do on the outside. Meaning, the longer they stay, the better their chances.

Once out of rehab, he needs to be involved in some sort of transition program such as outpatient rehab or living in a sober living home. He also needs to see a doctor who specializes in addictive medicine NOT a psychiatrist. Alcoholism is a genetic/biological disease, it is not a mental disorder. He can see a counselor everyday for the rest of his life and it will do nothing to keep him sober.

I recommend reading Under the Influence by Dr. Millam and Love First by Jeff Jay. These books are probably the most important books on addiction. They will forever change how you see your brother and his condition.

Panther

Pelican

Welcome to the SR family!

Please pull up a chair and make yourself at home by reading and posting as much as needed. We understand how it feels watching a loved one be consumed by their addiction.


As Panter mentioned, reading and learning about alcoholism can be helpful to your understanding of how your brother is affected by alcohol. It affects his body, mind and spirit. This is a link to an older post and it contains excerpts from the book Under the Influence:


http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...influence.html

The posts (called stickies) at the top of the forum pages are permanent posts that have been collected by the moderators for quick reference. They contain some of our stories, and a lot of wisdom. This is one of my favorites:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html

Seren

Hello Hanginthere!

Welcome! Learning all I could about alcoholism and addiction has been helpful, and I'm sure I still have much to learn.

I want to assure you that you, nor your family, are personally responsible for your brother's drinking. Ultimately, he will have to truly believe that his situation is bad enough that he needs help. Since you have already held an intervention, and the family are all on the same page so that the enabling has stopped, it is truly up to him now.

The skills your brother learned in rehab are still available for him to use. I hope that he decides that he would like a better life!

I am also taking a moment to remind everyone about Rule 10 regarding professional medical advice...

Welcome, again, Hanginthere! We are glad you found us!!

HG

Hanginthere

Thanks for all the input and suggestions. I have spoken to him a couple times recently (drunk each time, and all alone in a abondonded, cold dark house until he's ran outta there), and as kindly and gently as I know how to put it, I told him he needs help and we care about him and I'll take him to get the help he needs. But, hets mad as hell, right away, and gets off the phone. He don't want to hear it, period.

He was out of money, and I figured he'd then be forced to do something as his source of alcohol would also dry up, but he's now got his link card reactivated (link card is the food stamp/assistance account) and I assume he's trading cash for about three to four times as much groceries to anyone who'll do it for him, so he can have cash to get alcohol, again. It used to be his daughter giving him about $20 for about $100 in groceries on his link card, and it may be her again, as sad as that is that his own child would fund his drinking in order to get more for herself. Not sure if she's doing it this time or not, but if not her, he'd find someone else to do it.

I don't see as there is anything left for anyone else to do, but him. If he wants to keep drinking and living in a cold dark house, and eventually die, or further ruin his mind and ablity to be an independent adult (if he were to get off the drinking ), its up to him.

This is a sad thing to witness: to see someone slowly kill themselves and ignore any pleas from their family for them to stop killing themselves and ruining their quality of life.

My heart goes out to anyone who has to see this happen, and realize there is nothing you can do about it. I think we gotta realize that a grown adult has the legal right to drink themselves to death.

But I am still open for any ideas anyone may have, cause I know the inevitable is coming, as hard as that is to accept, when you want to stop it before it happens,..........yet you can't.....its his life, and his death, not mine. I can't want to live for him.

LucyA

Hanginthere, I can't and won't give you any advice, other than to look after yourself. If you can't look after your self you can't look after anyone. You need to be strong and healthy, in both mind and body, to deal with what you have to deal with, and what you have to deal with is up to you and how strong and healthy you are.
Your brother is an adult (I assume, as he has grown up kids) he has to make his own decisions, whatever they are. He can be guided, yes, but no one can make decisions for him, because even if you do he doesn't have to follow up, all he has to do is make the right noises for the allotted time. Then he'll go back to his own choice.
Look after yourself, love him, but let go because he'll do whatever he will do and no matter how much you love him or he loves you wont make a blind bit of difference.

Hanginthere

Went to check on him again and remind him I am ready to take him to treatment when he's ready to go .

The abondoned house is obvioulsy getting colder now, as it was in the mid 30s last nite. Yesterday when my fiance and I were checking on him, and he wouldn't come to the door, but would say he was fine and was obviously drunk. I called the police to make him come to the door and fill them in on his dire situtation. The police were already familiar with him, as he walks the streets alot, and was begging for money in parking lots so much that two businesses filed complaints against him. The neighbors were in the process of calling the mayor and getting the situation looked into, as he's been also begging the neighbors for money. It looks as though he may have went back to vodka again, as I think he can get drunk faster on less money with that, rather than his usual beer.

He asked if I would take him to my house and it is hard to say no, given that its getting cold and he has nothing, but again, I keep offeing to take him to a detox center and deal withthe problem in order to save his life, not merely postpone it by putting him up for the night............been there, before. That led to a trip to the emergency room last time.

Denying someone as close as a sibling to be able to come to your house when they are begging for money ( to drink, smoke, and eat on, I guess) and its getting cold out, is very a hard thing to do. But I've taken him in before, about three different times, and after the siezure he had in the kitchen floor, I just don't have what he needs. And yet he refuses to let me take him to what he needs, which is detox, first and foremost, then treatment.


The local homeless shelter where he stayed the first time he was coming off of it and looking for work said he could come back any time..........Its a warm place to sleep and hot food to eat and he liked it there the first time. But the manager said he's drunk EVERY time he comes there seeing if he can get in and they obviously won't allow that.


I feel he may die in these cold conditions and begging for money to drink and smoke on, but if I were to take him in, it would shield him from the reprocussions of his actions. So I won't. If death is a possiblity, I can't help that. All I can do is offer him a means to get to treatment, and support him along the way. If he continues to refuse help (he still won't even acknowledge the drinking problem, ) and something bad happens to him, I know I did everything I could and then some.

But as has been said, its up to him if he wants to live or not. I can't want to live for him.

Thanks for listening and maybe someone else is having a hard time dealing with having to make the same firm stance in a similar dire situation. But I realize that you can't second quess what you know to be what is best for them, and you can't let your compassion shield them from the result of their decisions, no matter how harsh the possible reprocussoins they may suffer....

Hanginthere

UPdate.

I went by the cold abondoned house where he's staying and drinking to check on him in another attempt to get him to realize he's going to freeze and die if he don't change the situation and get in treatment. *You can't leave me here, I am going to freeze to death* is what he said. I had to try one more time to get through to him, as I felt hypothermia was going to get him before he admitted he needed help.


He was drunk, but was eager to come stay at my house, get something to eat and agreed to talk about it the next day. After a night of his constantly roaming my house and searching for change to steal, the next day he had another siezure and I had to kick the bathroom door in and call the paramedics, and he had another trip to the ER..............

AFter being checked out and given an OK on his cat scan, we got him regrouped and agreeing, once again, to go into detox about 60 miles away..............., I got him up there Saturday evening but he was breaking the rules and disrupting the others and then left early after a day and a half......he hitchhiked all the way back (60 miles) to the abondoned house (the same place he detested and said he would NOT return to) and got drunk again instead fo going to the homeless shelter where he can have his needs met in a warm bed with good food. He chose to get back to drinking at the abondoned house where he was.

So, until he calls me and convinces me he WANTS help, I see nothing more anyone can do......which I said before, yes, but compassion and the cold caused me to make one more attempt.......and here we are again.

THe whole thing is amazingly frustrating and very sad.

Bernadette

(((((((((hugs))))))))

He has his own destiny. I have been through long periods of having to love my brothers from a distance because I just can't ride that roller coaster ever again- it is torture.

Can you try an AlAnon meeting? That was the doorway to me changing my thinking and breaking free of the misery I felt in relation to my A family. It didn't make their situation any less sad - but it did teach me how to choose joy and peace for myself without feeling guilty about things I cannot control.

Peace-
B

Hanginthere

I realize when you are dealing with someone severely addicted and who can't seem to shake the overwhelming addiction to just keep drinking and continue to stay in severe situations.........................And when it gets down to life theatening temperatures, I feel you have to rethink your *they have to hit rock bottom and come to get help* stance.............cuase many times they can't/don't get help for whatever reason (depression/addiction too strong to overcome/sence of being worthless), and if you stop reaching out to them, and then once they are gone, its too late............

Anyway, my Update.

Finally seemed to get through to my brother about his dire situation and need to get help. He's now in detox and willing to go from there to the rehab program. I agreed to make a house payment for him, once again, in order to keep his land and home from being repossessed while he's in there. All we can do is hope he stays and that the therapy sessions and counceling finally hit home with him and cause him to see what drinking has done to him, and that that message stays with him once he's back out and exposed to temptation again.

From where I am standing now, I am glad I kept going to him and offering to help him get into treatment. Cause he is, once again, taking the right steps to get his life back, before its too late.

Thanks for all the support. Wish him luck and keep him in your prayers.

autumn1554

Heartbreaking...hope you are well. It's truly sad that you and your brother have been going through all this. There's so many lost souls out there - I always wish I could do more for people then I ever possibly could. Frustrating, to say the least. I hope you feel peace with yourself and with your actions and attempts to get him to help. My guilt comes on when I don't feel like I've done all I can - without enabling him and making things worse of course. (Quite the fine line we all tread!)
Wishing your family the best...

tabatha

I hope it goes well for you and your brother now that he is finally in detox and willing to go to rehab. I'm hoping it is an extended rehab stay. In late stage alcoholism there is not much if any normal brain functioning going on and he is most probably unable to make a rational decision. I agree with you when it gets critical it may be time to step in. My XABF was in end stage and was not able to make any rational decisions about his own recovery and actually reverted back to earlier days of denial because he could not realize just how bad he was. Sadly he ended up dying because his cognitive abilities were so diminished he didn't even realize how sick he really was. Watching someone deteriorate and knowing that it was preventable is heartbreaking to say the least. I wish you and your brother much luck and strength in dealing with this.

Hanginthere

He has completed the detox and is now staying in a homeless shelter. So far so good.

But while he was in detox, I agreed to make his house payments while he was in there, which I did. But he sprang it on me about a week before he got out of rehab that his taxes on his property were also back up, and they were going to repossess his property/house if another payment wasn't made within about three weeks. This is the same tax bill I was paying on last year when he was in rehab.

But here is the real kicker. He knows he has the taxes due......he knows he has the house payment (which I have been making, yet again, after paying over $1300 for him his last time in rehab).......and he knows his vehicle insurance has expired so he can't drive and look for a job just yet........he also knows he's gonna need gas to look for a job.......with which to get income coming in as quickly as possible so as to be able to support himself......and take the burden off of others.....

But while my finace is going to get him from rehab after he's completed the program, he wants to stop off and spend what little money he has (which he severely needs for crucial things to get back on his feet and save his land) on cigarettes..........

And that was it for me. I am glad he's completed the rehab, and hope to GOD he can stay off of alcohol, but his chain smoking, in light if knowing I have been making his payments for him...........that is too much. .

Its as if he wants me to help him make his house and tax payments (and someone has to put more gas in his vehicle and pay his insurance so he can look for a job), but he is willing to spend whatever few dollars he can get on cigarettes so he can keep his chain smoking going. If you can't pay your own bills, and someone else is having to make them for you.......that means you don't have money to waste on cigarettes/chain smoking. Basic law of reasoning......If you are in such a dire situation and are having to ask others for money= NO money for something like smoking.... But not him.... ....

That was where I pulled the plug on financial help. Even though he is now out of rehab. I will continue to support his efforts to stay sober in every way I can, but even sober, he can't take advantage of me (the last one left who'll help him) and my compassion for him, anymore.

nodaybut2day

Sounds like you have hit your bottom. I'm sorry it had to come to this for you, but glad you are coming to this important realization.

Hanginthere

Update

My brother completed the rehab I mentioned in my previous post.

He was wrongfully kicked out of the homeless shelter, and had been staying with an ex girlfriend and started drinking, again.

Brought him to my house to tell him how I felt about it, and then dropped him off in middle of town where he slept in his parked vehicle that nite.

He seemed to get his focus back, got back in the homeless shelter, and then had to leave, once again, due to not allowing them to hold a check he had come in the mail while he was there. He had to make a house payment, or else they'd have repossessed his house the NEXT DAY. I know, as I had been making the payments up to this one he made.

He was then staying with someone he met from the shelter, and suddenly called me two days later from his home out in the country, no transportation and a new job he had to get to, somehow..........I went down there to see him and low and behold, he had been drinking the night before, and probably earlier in the day before I got there.

I told him I could and would do no more to help him, after this latest return to drinking. He called me again the next day, Sunday, drunk as hell.....and had hitched a ride to town, returned a watch, and had used that money to get hammer on. That was Sunday, yesterday. But he did manage to find a way to work this morning, Monday, and is attempting to make it to the job.

Not sure how long he can get rides that far, and I am not even sure if he's staying at his home or with someone else, but he did get himself to work today.

Not sure where I stand as to how I react to him or deal with him, at this point. I feel I need to continue to encourage him on the phone if he calls but do nothing else. Afterall, he went back do drinking, again............

Or I feel if he's managed, somehow, to get himself to work every day for a week or so, and is doing the right thing in trying to hold the job (hard to get there that far, daily, with no transportation), If I see he has no ride, I may offer him a ride before he loses the job, cause that seems to be the only thing he has going for him, right now.

But I am not sure about what to do if he's still drinking or not, that I don't know about. But if he is still drinking, its safe to say he'll soon lose the job, ride or not.


Not sure if he's drinking after work, or if he has the money to continue drinking, either. Not even sure how he's eating or how he's paying for food, now that he no longer has an assistance card.

But I am glad to see he did get to work today, at least........

I fully realize I didn't cause, can't control or cure HIS problem, but I also want to help him get to work if he can't possible get there otherwise....recent failures, aside, you can't change the past, only pick up and do better from this point forward.

Thoughts?

Cyranoak

please consider this: stop helping him. that's the only way to help him if anything will (and he may be past help). you set boundaries but don't enforce them-- that's why he doesn't respect your boundaries-- you don't have any, just empty threats and more covering for him. you pay, you help, you save, nothing changes.

what's the definition of insanity again?

cyranoak

Pelican

Two slogans come to mind:

First about your brother: "Past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior",

and for yourself: "Let Go or be Dragged"

Do you think it possible your brother manipulated you into paying his mortgage and taxes again this year. He knew a lame effort at rehab got his bills paid, gas in the car and food on the table last year; why not skip house payments, necessities, and responsibile behavior again this year and get checked into Rehab? Maybe my sister will bail me out again.

You are wondering if he is eating?
That is your normal brain applying reasonable sane behavior to adult life.

Your brother is not reasonable, sane or sober. He is an alcoholic and he is doing what alcoholics do: Drink.