Would You Accept This? ...
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Land of Cotton
Posts: 3,433
Just a quick observation.... I was involved with a man very much like your husband for 4 years. And I was very much like the woman you are. I finally got out (we were not married) and the relationship continued to haunt me for a long time. I was determined to figure out what makes this guy 'tick'. I found the closest descriptions when I found the definitions of "sociopath" and "borderline personality disorder". I am certainly not qualified to diagnose him (!) but realizing that there ARE people out there who do not have the CAPACITY to "love" but only the talent for IMITATING it to fill their needs helped me a great deal.
What drove me insane was that I "knew" he loved me (look at how sweet he can be! he tells me I'm beautiful all the time! we have mad, passionate sex!) so how in the world can he behave in this other horrible way???? How can those two things coexists side by side????? OMG, I was the one who was slowly being driven mad with those questions.
He never had the capacity to love me. He only had the ability to imitate it to feed his need for power, control, sex, etc.
Think about that and see if it makes sense for you.
What drove me insane was that I "knew" he loved me (look at how sweet he can be! he tells me I'm beautiful all the time! we have mad, passionate sex!) so how in the world can he behave in this other horrible way???? How can those two things coexists side by side????? OMG, I was the one who was slowly being driven mad with those questions.
He never had the capacity to love me. He only had the ability to imitate it to feed his need for power, control, sex, etc.
Think about that and see if it makes sense for you.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 212
Originally Posted by anvilhead 
somewhere along the way you put HIM in charge of your own self worth....when he does those nice things, says the right things, all the trigger words like Love and Beautiful, etc, you assigned value to those things and then YOUR job became to collect as many of the value point as possible.
this same person that you entrusted with your self worth is also a scoundrel and a cad and he finds HIS self worth in female attention. any and all female attention. and so HE goes about getting as many of his value points as he can.
because neither of you have self sustained value and worth, you CRAVE getting it from your pre-designated source. and any time we become reliant on someone else for that which we should create for ourselves, we become....dependent, enmeshed, lost. the more we get, the more we want. ever increasing tolerance. for an ever increasing void.
your jealousy is part and parcel of the dynamic. his attention wanders and if you can fight and get it back, you WIN. every time he looks the other way (or walks or runs) you feel crushed and defeated, and the craving to have him back saying nice things out of his mouth intensifies.
if you two were MEANT to be each others fix, you wouldn't be here and describing that sad state of affairs. (no pun intended). your first job is to detox from your "drug" - to accept that you must be in charge of your own happiness, self worth, future. to quit depending on the undependable, relying on the unreliable and setting yourself up for disappointment.
this same person that you entrusted with your self worth is also a scoundrel and a cad and he finds HIS self worth in female attention. any and all female attention. and so HE goes about getting as many of his value points as he can.
because neither of you have self sustained value and worth, you CRAVE getting it from your pre-designated source. and any time we become reliant on someone else for that which we should create for ourselves, we become....dependent, enmeshed, lost. the more we get, the more we want. ever increasing tolerance. for an ever increasing void.
your jealousy is part and parcel of the dynamic. his attention wanders and if you can fight and get it back, you WIN. every time he looks the other way (or walks or runs) you feel crushed and defeated, and the craving to have him back saying nice things out of his mouth intensifies.
if you two were MEANT to be each others fix, you wouldn't be here and describing that sad state of affairs. (no pun intended). your first job is to detox from your "drug" - to accept that you must be in charge of your own happiness, self worth, future. to quit depending on the undependable, relying on the unreliable and setting yourself up for disappointment.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 212
Originally Posted by LifeRecovery
Walking in on my husband and my friend on my bed finally made reality hit. I had been avoiding reality for a long time.
Five years after the fact that I knew I needed help with my new marriage and that I was living with a problem drinker I finally walked into the doors of Al-anon, 24hrs after I found them in the midsts of an affair.
Why it took the affair to shake the cobwebs out of my brain I don't know. I do know though that the anger helped me to get moving out of "worrying" about him and into paying attention to me for the first time in my marriage.
I am not grateful the affair happened, but I am grateful that it finally got me to wake up. I am not grateful for the hard feelings I have had to deal with because of this, but I am grateful that I can feel them for the first time ever.
It finally got me to pay attention to his actions, not what he talked about. We had been together seven years, the first one great, the second one pretty good, my newlywed bliss was trying to wrap my head around newly discovered binge drinking. My five years of marriage were really a struggle. When I thought of him though I always remembered those first two years and negated the hard ones.
Is he a nice guy, yup. Has he had a hard time in life...you bet. I always managed to forget though that I deserved 50% of the relationship too. I was so busy in his life that I never thought of my own.
This will sound strange but Al-anon is helping me to heal, from the alcohol use, but more importantly from life in general. Detachment especially is helping me with the affair, staying in recovery from my eating disorder etc. Counseling as always helps (but that was in place the whole relationship so I have a harder time seperating that out).
I believe in your worth, and gosh can I understand the situation you are in. Looking back on it 18mths later I think it will turn out to be one of the best things that ever happens to me....though moment to moment it was and continues to be the hardest thing I have ever dealt with.
Be good to you!
Five years after the fact that I knew I needed help with my new marriage and that I was living with a problem drinker I finally walked into the doors of Al-anon, 24hrs after I found them in the midsts of an affair.
Why it took the affair to shake the cobwebs out of my brain I don't know. I do know though that the anger helped me to get moving out of "worrying" about him and into paying attention to me for the first time in my marriage.
I am not grateful the affair happened, but I am grateful that it finally got me to wake up. I am not grateful for the hard feelings I have had to deal with because of this, but I am grateful that I can feel them for the first time ever.
It finally got me to pay attention to his actions, not what he talked about. We had been together seven years, the first one great, the second one pretty good, my newlywed bliss was trying to wrap my head around newly discovered binge drinking. My five years of marriage were really a struggle. When I thought of him though I always remembered those first two years and negated the hard ones.
Is he a nice guy, yup. Has he had a hard time in life...you bet. I always managed to forget though that I deserved 50% of the relationship too. I was so busy in his life that I never thought of my own.
This will sound strange but Al-anon is helping me to heal, from the alcohol use, but more importantly from life in general. Detachment especially is helping me with the affair, staying in recovery from my eating disorder etc. Counseling as always helps (but that was in place the whole relationship so I have a harder time seperating that out).
I believe in your worth, and gosh can I understand the situation you are in. Looking back on it 18mths later I think it will turn out to be one of the best things that ever happens to me....though moment to moment it was and continues to be the hardest thing I have ever dealt with.
Be good to you!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 212
Originally Posted by tjp613
Just a quick observation.... I was involved with a man very much like your husband for 4 years. And I was very much like the woman you are. I finally got out (we were not married) and the relationship continued to haunt me for a long time. I was determined to figure out what makes this guy 'tick'. I found the closest descriptions when I found the definitions of "sociopath" and "borderline personality disorder". I am certainly not qualified to diagnose him (!) but realizing that there ARE people out there who do not have the CAPACITY to "love" but only the talent for IMITATING it to fill their needs helped me a great deal.
What drove me insane was that I "knew" he loved me (look at how sweet he can be! he tells me I'm beautiful all the time! we have mad, passionate sex!) so how in the world can he behave in this other horrible way???? How can those two things coexists side by side????? OMG, I was the one who was slowly being driven mad with those questions.
He never had the capacity to love me. He only had the ability to imitate it to feed his need for power, control, sex, etc.
Think about that and see if it makes sense for you.
What drove me insane was that I "knew" he loved me (look at how sweet he can be! he tells me I'm beautiful all the time! we have mad, passionate sex!) so how in the world can he behave in this other horrible way???? How can those two things coexists side by side????? OMG, I was the one who was slowly being driven mad with those questions.
He never had the capacity to love me. He only had the ability to imitate it to feed his need for power, control, sex, etc.
Think about that and see if it makes sense for you.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 212
Thank you :)
I confronted him last night and told him that when I got everything organized, I would be leaving. He started Gaslighting and telling me that I was crazy and obsessed and he did 'nuthin' wrong' and I was overreacting (but I recognized it). He started discounting my feelings (but I recognized it). He told me that I would be making the biggest mistake of my life (but I tried not to be afraid that he was right). I got him to admit that he'd called her again yesterday - but of course 'just' to ask her how the staff Hallowe'en party went (the one we might have gone to - had we been a normal couple and this stuff wasn't going on). The reason I did that was to confirm to myself that he has no intention of stopping something hurtful to me. He said she is just a friend and that I'M ruining everything by trying to get him to stop contacting her. What a joke that is. He's been ruining everything for everyone involved, for a very long time.
I told him that he didn't have ANY respect for me or my feelings if he would continue to contact her - when he knew how I felt about it - even if he was doing 'nuthin' wrong'. He threatened all sorts of things, at one point agreed, criticized me for all of my faults, scrambled, etc. Then I told him that he needed to get help and I needed to find my own help. I told him that at this point and for all I've been through, I didn't really care if he got help, but that his kids are very worried about him and for them I would help him get started if he were willing to take the first step. I've had all of the information lined up for a while, but whenever I've mentioned it, he's always said he's cutting back and going to do it himself. It's never happened. He's never sought help for anything. I've been hearing that for years. I must say that I'm not even sure him getting sober would help some of his possible underlying personality disorders, but I can't worry about that. I have to work on myself and that is his issue. It's kinda sad - he said he'll go through this but he needs ME for support (me - the enabler). In theory, he would be using me to detox and get through all of this, but why should I be that compassionate? Should I? I don't know yet.
I've had all of the tools, but didn't know how or was afraid to use them. I had to face it all and allow myself to be afraid to let go of trying to control the direction all of this would go. I finally understand the fear that has been holding me back must be 'embraced'. I don't know where this journey will go, but I'm ready to embark on it.
I want to thank everyone who 'held my hand' yesterday and helped me through a most difficult beginning of a transition. Many of the things you said have finally resonated with me. Nothing changes if nothing changes is first and foremost, and so I am starting some change. I feel so blessed that all of you were here for me. The fact is that you helped me make some hard decisions and this has spurred me into action. I'm tired, beaten down and ready to head in the right direction. No more procrastination.
I told him that he didn't have ANY respect for me or my feelings if he would continue to contact her - when he knew how I felt about it - even if he was doing 'nuthin' wrong'. He threatened all sorts of things, at one point agreed, criticized me for all of my faults, scrambled, etc. Then I told him that he needed to get help and I needed to find my own help. I told him that at this point and for all I've been through, I didn't really care if he got help, but that his kids are very worried about him and for them I would help him get started if he were willing to take the first step. I've had all of the information lined up for a while, but whenever I've mentioned it, he's always said he's cutting back and going to do it himself. It's never happened. He's never sought help for anything. I've been hearing that for years. I must say that I'm not even sure him getting sober would help some of his possible underlying personality disorders, but I can't worry about that. I have to work on myself and that is his issue. It's kinda sad - he said he'll go through this but he needs ME for support (me - the enabler). In theory, he would be using me to detox and get through all of this, but why should I be that compassionate? Should I? I don't know yet.
I've had all of the tools, but didn't know how or was afraid to use them. I had to face it all and allow myself to be afraid to let go of trying to control the direction all of this would go. I finally understand the fear that has been holding me back must be 'embraced'. I don't know where this journey will go, but I'm ready to embark on it.
I want to thank everyone who 'held my hand' yesterday and helped me through a most difficult beginning of a transition. Many of the things you said have finally resonated with me. Nothing changes if nothing changes is first and foremost, and so I am starting some change. I feel so blessed that all of you were here for me. The fact is that you helped me make some hard decisions and this has spurred me into action. I'm tired, beaten down and ready to head in the right direction. No more procrastination.
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
Originally Posted by tryintosmile
Yep - I've 'studied' him for years. Alcoholic, OCPD, BPD or sociopath. Just couldn't figure out how much was the alcohol and how much the other disorders came in. Yes - he can be the most passionate and then the other personalities kick in, but it's such a mishmash it's impossible to unravel.
As someone else posted here, Jekyll and Hyde are a package deal. To me it doesn't matter which is the alcohol and which is personality disorder, unacceptable behavior is unacceptable behavior.
I too strongly recommend Al-Anon. I seriously believe it and this site saved my life. Give it some time and try several different meetings. I went to about 4 or 5 before I decided on my home group.
Your friend,
Skipper
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South Texas, USA
Posts: 827
Originally Posted by tryintosmile
I haven't made a plan yet. It's too daunting - the things I'd have to do. I need some help and I don't really have any. The only person that could help me would be him - and he's not going to help me unless HE makes the decision that it should be over. I would like to be able to convince him that this isn't working - for either of us ... Then we could work together (dream on).
I remember thinking that if only he would get better, then we would get better. I knew I had needs. Sometimes I felt guilty about having any needs. I wanted everything to be ok for him and for my son.
Thing is, my natural, NORMAL, human need still existed, more and more unfulfilled.
The Al-anon metaphor that I continued to go to the hardware store for a loaf of bread just made sense to me.
Yes, I had a basic need: A loaf of bread.
But I was trying to get that need at a place that would not have it: from my ABF. It just wasn't making sense. He wasn't capable of helping me. His alcoholism, predictably, got worse and worse. He wasn't capable of ANYthing. Why was I thinking I could help him get better so he could help me, even though I knew I was the 'strong' one, and I didn't really need any 'help' per se, just the basics in life and in love.
Reality is that our As cannot provide what we need. Furthermore, when we get better, we realize there is an acceptable and more realistic place to fulfill certain needs in our life. Our partners do not become 'necessary' but a healthy partnership is an ADDED blessing in our lives.
Skipper
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South Texas, USA
Posts: 827
Ok!! Now, you've developed some idea of what serenity might be for you. This path is a slow and stumbling one at first. Keep leaning on those things and people who support you right now.
Have you had a chance to check out Al-anon and/or any of the recommended readings yet?
Have you had a chance to check out Al-anon and/or any of the recommended readings yet?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quebec
Posts: 2,708
tryingtosmile
Congratulations for taking an important step! You did Sooooo well
Your conversation with your partner reminds me of a similar one I had with my XAH, right before we separated. He was ready to accuse me of not paying attention to him, of "being crazy" and "needing help" (perhaps thinking that the words would sting and give him power over me)...I couldn't help but respond "Yes, I do need help and I'm going to go get it, so I can finally be happy". For some reason, the fact that I was accepting my part in the toxicity of our relationship really threw him. A few days later, HE was the one who proposed separation, perhaps feeling like the battle was lost, at least for the moment.
Keep reading, keep posting and keep celebrating your sucesses!
Congratulations for taking an important step! You did Sooooo well
Your conversation with your partner reminds me of a similar one I had with my XAH, right before we separated. He was ready to accuse me of not paying attention to him, of "being crazy" and "needing help" (perhaps thinking that the words would sting and give him power over me)...I couldn't help but respond "Yes, I do need help and I'm going to go get it, so I can finally be happy". For some reason, the fact that I was accepting my part in the toxicity of our relationship really threw him. A few days later, HE was the one who proposed separation, perhaps feeling like the battle was lost, at least for the moment.
Keep reading, keep posting and keep celebrating your sucesses!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 588
I love everything you wrote, except this:
It's kinda sad - he said he'll go through this but he needs ME for support (me - the enabler). In theory, he would be using me to detox and get through all of this, but why should I be that compassionate? Should I? I don't know yet.
This, in my opinion, is another hook to reel you in. He needs the help of professionals and other recovered alcoholics. Not you!
You are correct: he should work on his recovery, and you should work on yours.
I was so glad this morning to see that you are in such a better place!
It's kinda sad - he said he'll go through this but he needs ME for support (me - the enabler). In theory, he would be using me to detox and get through all of this, but why should I be that compassionate? Should I? I don't know yet.
This, in my opinion, is another hook to reel you in. He needs the help of professionals and other recovered alcoholics. Not you!
You are correct: he should work on his recovery, and you should work on yours.
I was so glad this morning to see that you are in such a better place!
Skipper
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South Texas, USA
Posts: 827
Originally Posted by wellnowwhat
I love everything you wrote, except this:
It's kinda sad - he said he'll go through this but he needs ME for support (me - the enabler). In theory, he would be using me to detox and get through all of this, but why should I be that compassionate? Should I? I don't know yet.
This, in my opinion, is another hook to reel you in. He needs the help of professionals and other recovery alcoholics. Not you!
You are correct: he should work on his recovery, and you should work on yours.
I was so glad this morning to see that you are in such a better place!
It's kinda sad - he said he'll go through this but he needs ME for support (me - the enabler). In theory, he would be using me to detox and get through all of this, but why should I be that compassionate? Should I? I don't know yet.
This, in my opinion, is another hook to reel you in. He needs the help of professionals and other recovery alcoholics. Not you!
You are correct: he should work on his recovery, and you should work on yours.
I was so glad this morning to see that you are in such a better place!
I have to concentrate on my own recovery path, using the time-tested tools that work for me.
He has to get the help he needs, and it's really none of my business. (that's been tough!!)
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
Tryingtosmile, a couple of little facts that may help you.
Active alcoholics lie, all of them.
Active alcoholics don't have relationships, they take hostages.
He DOESN'T need you to support him to get better, all he needs is to want to do it himself. He either will or won't at his own discretion. Doesn't have a thing to do with you. Think about it, if you died he would be doomed to a life of alcoholism? I don't think so.
And lastly, this relationship is important to him because it allows him to focus on his drinking. He doesn't have to work or worry about being responsible for anything because he has you to take care of it ( I need to pay attention to this myself. ). He has a free ride and it doesn't matter to him how much it hurts you.
Your friend,
Active alcoholics lie, all of them.
Active alcoholics don't have relationships, they take hostages.
He DOESN'T need you to support him to get better, all he needs is to want to do it himself. He either will or won't at his own discretion. Doesn't have a thing to do with you. Think about it, if you died he would be doomed to a life of alcoholism? I don't think so.
And lastly, this relationship is important to him because it allows him to focus on his drinking. He doesn't have to work or worry about being responsible for anything because he has you to take care of it ( I need to pay attention to this myself.
). He has a free ride and it doesn't matter to him how much it hurts you.Your friend,
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: England
Posts: 116
I agree with Withnowwhat on the same remark he said to you!
Let the proffessionals see to that for him- its not your responsibility-take care of yourself
And by your mail ,you sound much more positive today-
Let the proffessionals see to that for him- its not your responsibility-take care of yourself
And by your mail ,you sound much more positive today-
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: California
Posts: 693
Originally Posted by tryintosmile
I'm angry because I don't want to be alone and if this is the 'next best thing' or the only thing that is there that keeps me from that 'place' then it seems I have made the choice - albeit a terrible one. I am in a horrible relationship and it has been what I truly felt I deserved, but perhaps with a little support (not pity) - I can actually break free - once and for all.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 212
Originally Posted by wellnowwhat
I love everything you wrote, except this:
It's kinda sad - he said he'll go through this but he needs ME for support (me - the enabler). In theory, he would be using me to detox and get through all of this, but why should I be that compassionate? Should I? I don't know yet.
This, in my opinion, is another hook to reel you in. He needs the help of professionals and other recovered alcoholics. Not you!
You are correct: he should work on his recovery, and you should work on yours.
I was so glad this morning to see that you are in such a better place!
It's kinda sad - he said he'll go through this but he needs ME for support (me - the enabler). In theory, he would be using me to detox and get through all of this, but why should I be that compassionate? Should I? I don't know yet.
This, in my opinion, is another hook to reel you in. He needs the help of professionals and other recovered alcoholics. Not you!
You are correct: he should work on his recovery, and you should work on yours.
I was so glad this morning to see that you are in such a better place!
Anyway - UPDATE - I've secured an appointment for him that he's agreed to go to. I'm creating some change - one step at a time, and it feels good to be doing something - instead of nothing. He knows I mean business now and I'm not going to try to control it. If he doesn't follow through I'm still going ahead with MY plans
you are kicking some serious @ss
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