Would You Accept This? ...
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: England
Posts: 116
When I had enough I was called a Heartless Bitch- reading the sticky,on Abuse "but Heartless Bitches would have been long gone,years ago" that sruck a chord with me,He was trying another hooker to keep me down,
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 1,637
Originally Posted by tryintosmile 
I was hoping that others have gone through this sort of behavior and have found a way not to let it destroy them, as it has done to me.
I get it Tryintosmile. I do. I too could "see" the wonderful man inside my AH. I saw how sweet he could be. And loved the romantic cards/emails he would write. He understood me so well - and could make me laugh like no one. But he $hit on me like no one could too. And it's a package deal. I can't change him and I can't live with the crap.
Do you go to Al-anon? If not, I suggest giving at least 6 meetings a try.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 212
Originally Posted by wellnowwhat
The reasons you cite for staying read like the sticky on abuse; how they counter unacceptable behaviour with calculated shows of affection to keep you hooked. They know how to do an effective "hook" because they have studied you for soft spots and know how to have maximum effect. It is a blow to our self-esteem (if we have any left) to think the "love" we are shown is a cold, calculated move to maintain the relationship for their convenience and ego.
Without these tokens of affection, wouldn't you be long gone?
It isn't easy to make a change. Their goal is to make it like that, to undermine your confidence, to make you think maybe you're wrong, to make you think this is all you deserve.
Sending you kind thoughts!
Without these tokens of affection, wouldn't you be long gone?
It isn't easy to make a change. Their goal is to make it like that, to undermine your confidence, to make you think maybe you're wrong, to make you think this is all you deserve.
Sending you kind thoughts!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 837
No, you really are good for much! Please get the book Co Dependent No More and find an Al Anon meeting by you. There was a time when I heard that a woman was taken hostage by this criminal and he kept her for months before the police finally found her but the weird thing was she was now telling the police that she was in love with her captor! He treated her like scum while he had her so I couldn't understand how she could fall in love with such a person. We've all been taken captive here at one time or another. Please do not define yourself by one human being.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
Guess I have to face the fact that I'm not really good for much, other than enabling an alcoholic.
OK whoa down on the self-bashing here!!
I think a different fact you might have to face is that you may be as sick as he is - with your own codie issues!
So, since we know we can't cure their illness and staying hooked in relationships with As allows us to focus on them - instead of our own problems and our own struggle for change - well I'd say this puts you squarely in the driver's seat of a brand-new-today, shiny, self-powered sportscar heading to ______________________.
(fill in destination of your choice! Freedom? Peace of Mind? Tahiti?? LOL)
Nothing changes if nothing changes. Don't beat yourself up - you're neither the first nor the last excellent awesome person to fall in love with and get all caught up in that special breed of insane addictive Alkie relationship drama.
It does a number on your head for sure. I needed Al-Anon and therapy to help straighten out my thinking, and start building new patterns of thought and see that truly the world is my oyster!
Peace & ((((((((((hugs))))))))),
B
OK whoa down on the self-bashing here!!
I think a different fact you might have to face is that you may be as sick as he is - with your own codie issues!
So, since we know we can't cure their illness and staying hooked in relationships with As allows us to focus on them - instead of our own problems and our own struggle for change - well I'd say this puts you squarely in the driver's seat of a brand-new-today, shiny, self-powered sportscar heading to ______________________.
(fill in destination of your choice! Freedom? Peace of Mind? Tahiti?? LOL)
Nothing changes if nothing changes. Don't beat yourself up - you're neither the first nor the last excellent awesome person to fall in love with and get all caught up in that special breed of insane addictive Alkie relationship drama.
It does a number on your head for sure. I needed Al-Anon and therapy to help straighten out my thinking, and start building new patterns of thought and see that truly the world is my oyster!
Peace & ((((((((((hugs))))))))),
B
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 588
then I truly must be nothing. Lower than the lowest man on the totem pole. I knew my feelings were that low - but I didn't think I really was that low. Guess I have to face the fact that I'm not really good for much, other than enabling an alcoholic.
NO, no, no!
I did not intend for my words to wound you and to pile upon his manipulations. I am so sorry you feel this way.
My intention was to reiterate how it is a campaign mounted against you to keep you in this relationship. You are a loving and caring person, the ideal target! Until you are living in the depths, you cannot fathom anyone doing this to you purposefully. Normal people don't do this to a love partner and we don't even anticipate it can happen to us, and so easily, when we start a new relationship. We were looking for the best in them and that's what we saw. That is why it hurts so much to see the writing on the wall when the curtain is lifted. Intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with finding yourself in this spot!
You are a wonderful person, fully deserving of everything great and good in this life. I just don't think he is it.
NO, no, no!
I did not intend for my words to wound you and to pile upon his manipulations. I am so sorry you feel this way.
My intention was to reiterate how it is a campaign mounted against you to keep you in this relationship. You are a loving and caring person, the ideal target! Until you are living in the depths, you cannot fathom anyone doing this to you purposefully. Normal people don't do this to a love partner and we don't even anticipate it can happen to us, and so easily, when we start a new relationship. We were looking for the best in them and that's what we saw. That is why it hurts so much to see the writing on the wall when the curtain is lifted. Intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with finding yourself in this spot!
You are a wonderful person, fully deserving of everything great and good in this life. I just don't think he is it.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: England
Posts: 116
Agree with FedUp3-don't defy yourself by just this one person
Get support as stated-for you,
I never thought in a million years my Experience ,Strength and Hope could help other people
Were smart, clever people for all we've been through
Get support as stated-for you,
I never thought in a million years my Experience ,Strength and Hope could help other people
Were smart, clever people for all we've been through
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
Originally Posted by tryintosmile
Well he can be SO bad - yet he can also be SO good. They really are extremes though, so there is a strange balance. Not likely a healthy one though. Yes I do have a hole, but I'm afraid it's a black hole. I don't even think I can fill it - sad to say but I guess I'm one of those 'lost causes' 
If you are looking for support and wisdom you have come to the right place because we all have been pretty much in the exact same place you are. But we didn't choose to stay there.
I now exactly what you are talking about with the hole inside your self that you think you can't fill. I tried to fill my for years with my qualifier. Didn't work.
But thanks to SR and al-anon I have filled that whole with my self. It was hard tearful work. It took time and effort and meditation and bunches of meeting and hundreds of posts here. It worked. I am whole and sane. I have inner peace and even my bad days are better than my good ones used to be.
The choice is yours. If you want to get better there are plenty of folks here and at al-anon that are willing to help you to the best of our ability.
Your friend,
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
Guess I have to face the fact that I'm not really good for much, other than enabling an alcoholic.
OK whoa down on the self-bashing here!!
I think a different fact you might have to face is that you may be as sick as he is - with your own codie issues!
So, since we know we can't cure their illness and staying hooked in relationships with As allows us to focus on them - instead of our own problems and our own struggle for change - well I'd say facing facts puts you squarely in the driver's seat of a brand-new-today, shiny, self-powered sportscar heading to ______________________.
(fill in destination of your choice! Freedom? Peace of Mind? Tahiti?? LOL)
Nothing changes if nothing changes. Don't beat yourself up - you're neither the first nor the last excellent awesome person to fall in love with and get all caught up in that special breed of insane addictive Alkie relationship drama.
Codependency does a number on your head for sure. I needed Al-Anon and therapy to help straighten out my thinking, and start building new patterns of thought and see that truly the world is my oyster!
Peace & ((((((((((hugs))))))))),
B
OK whoa down on the self-bashing here!!
I think a different fact you might have to face is that you may be as sick as he is - with your own codie issues!
So, since we know we can't cure their illness and staying hooked in relationships with As allows us to focus on them - instead of our own problems and our own struggle for change - well I'd say facing facts puts you squarely in the driver's seat of a brand-new-today, shiny, self-powered sportscar heading to ______________________.
(fill in destination of your choice! Freedom? Peace of Mind? Tahiti?? LOL)
Nothing changes if nothing changes. Don't beat yourself up - you're neither the first nor the last excellent awesome person to fall in love with and get all caught up in that special breed of insane addictive Alkie relationship drama.
Codependency does a number on your head for sure. I needed Al-Anon and therapy to help straighten out my thinking, and start building new patterns of thought and see that truly the world is my oyster!
Peace & ((((((((((hugs))))))))),
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 212
Originally Posted by wellnowwhat
then I truly must be nothing. Lower than the lowest man on the totem pole. I knew my feelings were that low - but I didn't think I really was that low. Guess I have to face the fact that I'm not really good for much, other than enabling an alcoholic.
NO, no, no!
I did not intend for my words to wound you and to pile upon his manipulations. I am so sorry you feel this way.
My intention was to reiterate how it is a campaign mounted against you to keep you in this relationship. You are a loving and caring person, the ideal target! Until you are living in the depths, you cannot fathom anyone doing this to you purposefully. Normal people don't do this to a love partner and we don't even anticipate it can happen to us, and so easily, when we start a new relationship. We were looking for the best in them and that's what we saw. That is why it hurts so much to see the writing on the wall when the curtain is lifted. Intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with finding yourself in this spot!
You are a wonderful person, fully deserving of everything great and good in this life. I just don't think he is it.
NO, no, no!
I did not intend for my words to wound you and to pile upon his manipulations. I am so sorry you feel this way.
My intention was to reiterate how it is a campaign mounted against you to keep you in this relationship. You are a loving and caring person, the ideal target! Until you are living in the depths, you cannot fathom anyone doing this to you purposefully. Normal people don't do this to a love partner and we don't even anticipate it can happen to us, and so easily, when we start a new relationship. We were looking for the best in them and that's what we saw. That is why it hurts so much to see the writing on the wall when the curtain is lifted. Intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with finding yourself in this spot!
You are a wonderful person, fully deserving of everything great and good in this life. I just don't think he is it.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quebec
Posts: 2,708
Originally Posted by tryintosmile
Oh my - could I - the most intelligent woman - be that kind of sucker? And all along I could believe that this person cared about me - more than the rest. Not really - now that I step out of denial for a moment. The problem is that if this is all a farce to keep me for his 'convenience and ego' - then I truly must be nothing. Lower than the lowest man on the totem pole. I knew my feelings were that low - but I didn't think I really was that low. Guess I have to face the fact that I'm not really good for much, other than enabling an alcoholic. Reality does bite
The reality is I was never given a manual or a course called "Navigating Toxic Relationships with Manipulative Liars". Perhaps I should have been. Perhaps even if I had, it wouldn't have helped. In any case, I was completely unprepared to deal with the gaslighting, the lying, the addiction and the abuse.
My take on all that now--now that I have stepped well away from that madness, is that it was *necessary* for me to go through the experience in order for me to grow, to become who I am today, just as whatever experiences I go through today are necessary to my continued growth. Back then, I made the poor choices I did because it was my path, and my path involved a great deal of darkness before I hit some light spots.
I'd venture to say that you ARE intelligent and capable of the same change we have all been through because you are here, openly discussing an emotionally charged situation, considering the fact that the situation may not be the healthiest for you. You could have chosen to continue to hide your head in the sand, but you're not. You're here. Your journey has already begun in your mind and in your heart. Remember that.
Now what's your next step?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 212
Originally Posted by m1k3
If you are coming here looking for pity you didn't pick the right place. We all have been pretty much in the exact same place you are.
If you are looking for support and wisdom you have come to the right place because we all have been pretty much in the exact same place you are. But we didn't choose to stay there.
If you are looking for support and wisdom you have come to the right place because we all have been pretty much in the exact same place you are. But we didn't choose to stay there.
I'm not looking for pity at all. I don't even usually follow through on my posts and don't often feel qualified to post on others' because I haven't been able to take what I've learned here and use it in my life. I want to be able to feel - something - and even if it is to bash myself - then I need to do that. I am angry at myself for allowing me to continue to go through this and not doing anything to stop it. I'm angry at myself for being such a wimp. I'm angry because I don't want to be alone and if this is the 'next best thing' or the only thing that is there that keeps me from that 'place' then it seems I have made the choice - albeit a terrible one. I am in a horrible relationship and it has been what I truly felt I deserved, but perhaps with a little support (not pity) - I can actually break free - once and for all.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by tryintosmile
I'm angry because I don't want to be alone and if this is the 'next best thing' or the only thing that is there that keeps me from that 'place' then it seems I have made the choice - albeit a terrible one.
Try to realistically assess what it is you fear so much about being alone? Then compare that to the situation you are living now? Maybe write it all down on a pro/con list so you can look at it in black and white.
L
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
I was married to an alcoholic for 36 years. Not all of them were bad of course, but they started to get bad about 15 years ago, and got worse and worse. I felt very much like you did. After her last binge the pay of staying finally was greater that the pain of leaving and I moved out.
At 57 I couldn't imagine living on my own again. Now I can't imagine not living on my own. It was scary and hard and oh so worth it. Any pain I felt doing this was growing pains. Once I moved out I joined al-anon and I started to really get better. The journey is well worth it and it is one that will never end. I have filled that hole you described and I filled it with me. And I love it.
So, there is hope. There is life outside the chaos and it is good life. Feel free to join any time you are ready.
Your friend,
At 57 I couldn't imagine living on my own again. Now I can't imagine not living on my own. It was scary and hard and oh so worth it. Any pain I felt doing this was growing pains. Once I moved out I joined al-anon and I started to really get better. The journey is well worth it and it is one that will never end. I have filled that hole you described and I filled it with me. And I love it.
So, there is hope. There is life outside the chaos and it is good life. Feel free to join any time you are ready.
Your friend,
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 212
Originally Posted by nodaybut2day
My first nickname on SR was "imtheidiot"...as in "I'm the idiot who married THAT guy". I went from living in the Jolly Ol' Land of De-Nial (someplace in Egypt...) to The Valley of Self-Bashing. I figured that if I had made the choice, whether consciously or not, to stay with the man who continued to abuse me, all the while manipulating/coddling/"caring" for me, then I MUST be an idiot, a moron and a fool.
The reality is I was never given a manual or a course called "Navigating Toxic Relationships with Manipulative Liars". Perhaps I should have been. Perhaps even if I had, it wouldn't have helped. In any case, I was completely unprepared to deal with the gaslighting, the lying, the addiction and the abuse.
My take on all that now--now that I have stepped well away from that madness, is that it was *necessary* for me to go through the experience in order for me to grow, to become who I am today, just as whatever experiences I go through today are necessary to my continued growth. Back then, I made the poor choices I did because it was my path, and my path involved a great deal of darkness before I hit some light spots.
I'd venture to say that you ARE intelligent and capable of the same change we have all been through because you are here, openly discussing an emotionally charged situation, considering the fact that the situation may not be the healthiest for you. You could have chosen to continue to hide your head in the sand, but you're not. You're here. Your journey has already begun in your mind and in your heart. Remember that.
Now what's your next step?
The reality is I was never given a manual or a course called "Navigating Toxic Relationships with Manipulative Liars". Perhaps I should have been. Perhaps even if I had, it wouldn't have helped. In any case, I was completely unprepared to deal with the gaslighting, the lying, the addiction and the abuse.
My take on all that now--now that I have stepped well away from that madness, is that it was *necessary* for me to go through the experience in order for me to grow, to become who I am today, just as whatever experiences I go through today are necessary to my continued growth. Back then, I made the poor choices I did because it was my path, and my path involved a great deal of darkness before I hit some light spots.
I'd venture to say that you ARE intelligent and capable of the same change we have all been through because you are here, openly discussing an emotionally charged situation, considering the fact that the situation may not be the healthiest for you. You could have chosen to continue to hide your head in the sand, but you're not. You're here. Your journey has already begun in your mind and in your heart. Remember that.
Now what's your next step?
I haven't made a plan yet. It's too daunting - the things I'd have to do. I need some help and I don't really have any. The only person that could help me would be him - and he's not going to help me unless HE makes the decision that it should be over. I would like to be able to convince him that this isn't working - for either of us ... Then we could work together (dream on).
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 212
I'm lying ... if he dumped me or agreed that we shouldn't be together, I'd probably feel worse than ever. I'd feel that I wasn't even good enough to be an enabler. Don't know how I could feel worse than this, but I'm afraid that could be a clincher ... what a mess! I know I need to stop this sort of thinking but I'm admitting that I do think this way!
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quebec
Posts: 2,708
How about starting to make a list here? What things need to be set in place for you to move on (if that's indeed where you are headed...I don't want to assume)?
My own To-Do list involved the following:
Searching for a place to stay (cost of rent, utilities, moving, plus factor in travel time to work)
Putting my important paperwork in a safe place (sent to mom and dad's!)
Separating our finances (opened my own bank account)
That's just the beginning, but it's nice to start imagining those things and allowing yourself to dream. When I started to dream, I imagined a cosy little apartment, clean, with lots of light, 1 bedroom to share between myself and my baby girl...maybe a cat...quiet music playing, simple food, and lots of baby smiles and laughter. It was a simple dream but it's what go me going...the image of peace I built for myself. The reality of where I ended up was quite different (living with my parents at the ripe age of 34), but I still found my bit of peace, away from the manipulation, the crazy-making and the lies. My brain/heart/soul all breathed a collective sigh of relief.
You can do that too. We can help you figure out how to get there.
My own To-Do list involved the following:
Searching for a place to stay (cost of rent, utilities, moving, plus factor in travel time to work)
Putting my important paperwork in a safe place (sent to mom and dad's!)
Separating our finances (opened my own bank account)
That's just the beginning, but it's nice to start imagining those things and allowing yourself to dream. When I started to dream, I imagined a cosy little apartment, clean, with lots of light, 1 bedroom to share between myself and my baby girl...maybe a cat...quiet music playing, simple food, and lots of baby smiles and laughter. It was a simple dream but it's what go me going...the image of peace I built for myself. The reality of where I ended up was quite different (living with my parents at the ripe age of 34), but I still found my bit of peace, away from the manipulation, the crazy-making and the lies. My brain/heart/soul all breathed a collective sigh of relief.
You can do that too. We can help you figure out how to get there.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 111
"I haven't made a plan yet. It's too daunting - the things I'd have to do. I need some help and I don't really have any. The only person that could help me would be him - and he's not going to help me unless HE makes the decision that it should be over. I would like to be able to convince him that this isn't working - for either of us ... Then we could work together (dream on)."
Take one step at a time. Your first step was coming here. Learn everything you can about this disease. Baby steps and soon you will be out the door. I think getting out of the situation so you can think is a great start. Is there somewhere you can go for an extended period of time (3-6 months), a relative or family member you can stay with? When I was able to get away from the environment and think, and journal, and be treated with kindness I was able to see the toxic situation I was exposing myself to. It is a choice. It is a decision. I will live with <fill in the blank> or I will not.
You are not the lowest of the low and he is not so special that he can not be replaced. Take the power back.
Take one step at a time. Your first step was coming here. Learn everything you can about this disease. Baby steps and soon you will be out the door. I think getting out of the situation so you can think is a great start. Is there somewhere you can go for an extended period of time (3-6 months), a relative or family member you can stay with? When I was able to get away from the environment and think, and journal, and be treated with kindness I was able to see the toxic situation I was exposing myself to. It is a choice. It is a decision. I will live with <fill in the blank> or I will not.
You are not the lowest of the low and he is not so special that he can not be replaced. Take the power back.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Right here, right now!
Posts: 3,424
Walking in on my husband and my friend on my bed finally made reality hit. I had been avoiding reality for a long time.
Five years after the fact that I knew I needed help with my new marriage and that I was living with a problem drinker I finally walked into the doors of Al-anon, 24hrs after I found them in the midsts of an affair.
Why it took the affair to shake the cobwebs out of my brain I don't know. I do know though that the anger helped me to get moving out of "worrying" about him and into paying attention to me for the first time in my marriage.
I am not grateful the affair happened, but I am grateful that it finally got me to wake up. I am not grateful for the hard feelings I have had to deal with because of this, but I am grateful that I can feel them for the first time ever.
It finally got me to pay attention to his actions, not what he talked about. We had been together seven years, the first one great, the second one pretty good, my newlywed bliss was trying to wrap my head around newly discovered binge drinking. My five years of marriage were really a struggle. When I thought of him though I always remembered those first two years and negated the hard ones.
Is he a nice guy, yup. Has he had a hard time in life...you bet. I always managed to forget though that I deserved 50% of the relationship too. I was so busy in his life that I never thought of my own.
This will sound strange but Al-anon is helping me to heal, from the alcohol use, but more importantly from life in general. Detachment especially is helping me with the affair, staying in recovery from my eating disorder etc. Counseling as always helps (but that was in place the whole relationship so I have a harder time seperating that out).
I believe in your worth, and gosh can I understand the situation you are in. Looking back on it 18mths later I think it will turn out to be one of the best things that ever happens to me....though moment to moment it was and continues to be the hardest thing I have ever dealt with.
Be good to you!
Five years after the fact that I knew I needed help with my new marriage and that I was living with a problem drinker I finally walked into the doors of Al-anon, 24hrs after I found them in the midsts of an affair.
Why it took the affair to shake the cobwebs out of my brain I don't know. I do know though that the anger helped me to get moving out of "worrying" about him and into paying attention to me for the first time in my marriage.
I am not grateful the affair happened, but I am grateful that it finally got me to wake up. I am not grateful for the hard feelings I have had to deal with because of this, but I am grateful that I can feel them for the first time ever.
It finally got me to pay attention to his actions, not what he talked about. We had been together seven years, the first one great, the second one pretty good, my newlywed bliss was trying to wrap my head around newly discovered binge drinking. My five years of marriage were really a struggle. When I thought of him though I always remembered those first two years and negated the hard ones.
Is he a nice guy, yup. Has he had a hard time in life...you bet. I always managed to forget though that I deserved 50% of the relationship too. I was so busy in his life that I never thought of my own.
This will sound strange but Al-anon is helping me to heal, from the alcohol use, but more importantly from life in general. Detachment especially is helping me with the affair, staying in recovery from my eating disorder etc. Counseling as always helps (but that was in place the whole relationship so I have a harder time seperating that out).
I believe in your worth, and gosh can I understand the situation you are in. Looking back on it 18mths later I think it will turn out to be one of the best things that ever happens to me....though moment to moment it was and continues to be the hardest thing I have ever dealt with.
Be good to you!
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