Am I being Naive?
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Originally Posted by Terminally Unique 
I still say it is completely irrelevant, and a classic nonsensical line. Fall for it at your peril. If a formerly addicted person tells me "I have no desire to drink," and they very often do, as if it were a great, big accomplishment, I just turn it around and tell them "you mean to say that you would drink again if you did have the desire at some point?"
The deer in the headlights look I usually get from that question practically proves that this is precisely what they mean. If this were my own daughter's boyfriend, I would tell this man "I do not care if you have a desire to drink or not. I only have one question for you. Are you going to drink or use again in this lifetime, or are you not, in spite of any desire?"
The deer in the headlights look I usually get from that question practically proves that this is precisely what they mean. If this were my own daughter's boyfriend, I would tell this man "I do not care if you have a desire to drink or not. I only have one question for you. Are you going to drink or use again in this lifetime, or are you not, in spite of any desire?"
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Originally Posted by Cyranoak
Your casual dismissal of the suggestion to go to Alanon, along with your idea that if a recovering alcoholic has no desire to drink they don't need AA is very, very concerning. I say with all due respect that both of those things are very dangerous for somebody seeking to cope with what is going on with their daughter and her RAB.
That, along with the fact that you are here because of your 23 year old adult daughter and her decisions around her boyfriend who is very early in recovery is also very concerning. He may in fact have no desire to drink. I know many alcoholics who have said this and stayed sober for what appears to be indefinitely. I've also known many alcoholics who have said this and relapsed the next day. He is very early in his recovery-- his future is unknown and uncertain! It's only after years of sobriety that you can start to get comortable and even then it truly is one day at a time!
She's your daughter. I get that. I have one too and she is also attracted to wounded dogs and addicts she tries to support and fix (that whole Hallmark power of love crock of **** we all love to believe so much).
So, having said that it is my personal opinion that it is critical for you to start attending Alanon right now (even if it is inconvenient). Invite your daughter, but regardless of her response try at least six meetings and keep an open mind before deciding if it is for you. If after six meetings you don't like it, fine. But not going at all? Well what will that say about your actual intent to learn more about this issue and yourself, and most appropriately support your daughter?
Take what you want and leave the rest.
Cyranoak
That, along with the fact that you are here because of your 23 year old adult daughter and her decisions around her boyfriend who is very early in recovery is also very concerning. He may in fact have no desire to drink. I know many alcoholics who have said this and stayed sober for what appears to be indefinitely. I've also known many alcoholics who have said this and relapsed the next day. He is very early in his recovery-- his future is unknown and uncertain! It's only after years of sobriety that you can start to get comortable and even then it truly is one day at a time!
She's your daughter. I get that. I have one too and she is also attracted to wounded dogs and addicts she tries to support and fix (that whole Hallmark power of love crock of **** we all love to believe so much).
So, having said that it is my personal opinion that it is critical for you to start attending Alanon right now (even if it is inconvenient). Invite your daughter, but regardless of her response try at least six meetings and keep an open mind before deciding if it is for you. If after six meetings you don't like it, fine. But not going at all? Well what will that say about your actual intent to learn more about this issue and yourself, and most appropriately support your daughter?
Take what you want and leave the rest.
Cyranoak
My original post was "Am I being naive?". I know that I'm naive to a lot of this, so I do truly want input from those of you who know infinitely more on the subject than I do. That being said, I don't buy the 'I have no desire to drink' but I WANT to believe it, for my daughter's sake. There is a subtle difference between the two.
Probably the most dangerous thing about me and this situation, is the fact that I believe people can change and that many people conquer this problem. I just don't believe this guy should never be able to find a partner/wife because he has an addiction problem. But the selfish part of me doesn't want it to be my daughter! So, no matter what I do, I lose.... If I harp on this and beg her to not go off and marry this guy, I lose her. If I harp enough, she inevitably tells him and he in turn won't like me, which means he never comes around and I lose her. If I say nothing, then I'm a terrible parent and if he fails in his recovery then I was part of the hurt she will go through because I felt powerless to stop it. Trust me when I say, that through these boards, I have learned that I am being naive, but I also have learned that I am powerless to change it.
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The truly scary thing about relationships with alcoholics is that the statistics for successful marriage minus alcohol/addiction are less than 50% make it (do not divorce) and this does not equate into how many of those remaining marriages are "happy" and are not dysfunctional.
Now drown that marriage in alcohol or even an alcoholic or addict at some stage of sobriety or real recovery and there are new challenges and risks associated with the overall health and stability of that relationship that is supposed to be for life (a really, really long time).
Can we even guess what the odds might be ? Less than 5% success? Too generous maybe.
It's like playing marital russian roulette with 5 bullets and planning your 50th wedding anniversary!
And I am the optimist in the group... my A is active in recovery and doing great and I am very happy right now... but I live one day at a time and am stable in my own recovery and he knows my boundaries are alcohol free. You relapse you are on your own and we live in seperate houses... additionally I am no spring chicken and my reproductive years are way behind me.
If I were shopping for a future father for my children and a mate for a lifetime I would want a resume that includes family alcoholic history and lots of counseling pre-marriage... definately do not want a ready made family with a broke guy new in recovery living at home with mom!
If she is determined to go ahead with the relationship she should seriously insist on NOT setting a date until he is completely financially stable and Independent of mommy and daddy with some $ in the bank.
That should slow things down long enough to see what is under the hood with the guy...
Now drown that marriage in alcohol or even an alcoholic or addict at some stage of sobriety or real recovery and there are new challenges and risks associated with the overall health and stability of that relationship that is supposed to be for life (a really, really long time).
Can we even guess what the odds might be ? Less than 5% success? Too generous maybe.
It's like playing marital russian roulette with 5 bullets and planning your 50th wedding anniversary!
And I am the optimist in the group... my A is active in recovery and doing great and I am very happy right now... but I live one day at a time and am stable in my own recovery and he knows my boundaries are alcohol free. You relapse you are on your own and we live in seperate houses... additionally I am no spring chicken and my reproductive years are way behind me.
If I were shopping for a future father for my children and a mate for a lifetime I would want a resume that includes family alcoholic history and lots of counseling pre-marriage... definately do not want a ready made family with a broke guy new in recovery living at home with mom!
If she is determined to go ahead with the relationship she should seriously insist on NOT setting a date until he is completely financially stable and Independent of mommy and daddy with some $ in the bank.
That should slow things down long enough to see what is under the hood with the guy...
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Ukiah77. Thank you for sharing your story. I am so sorry you have had such a roller coaster ride. I pray that things work out for you, one way or another.
It's disheartening, but clearly it is more the norm than not.
Learn2live. Thank you for your honest answers also. Again, it is very discouraging and I hate that I'm powerless to stop it. I am going to Alanon and I will actually confess to her about these boards, and print out these answers for her, and hopefully she may start re-evaluating it all. I have very little hope though. She believes, with all her heart (because she prayed for two years for that special someone) that God has sent her to him, and him to her. She swears that when she met him, something told her she should see this through, and she believes that was God. Try to fight that mentality.
It's disheartening, but clearly it is more the norm than not.
Learn2live. Thank you for your honest answers also. Again, it is very discouraging and I hate that I'm powerless to stop it. I am going to Alanon and I will actually confess to her about these boards, and print out these answers for her, and hopefully she may start re-evaluating it all. I have very little hope though. She believes, with all her heart (because she prayed for two years for that special someone) that God has sent her to him, and him to her. She swears that when she met him, something told her she should see this through, and she believes that was God. Try to fight that mentality.
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Originally Posted by Hopeworks
The truly scary thing about relationships with alcoholics is that the statistics for successful marriage minus alcohol/addiction are less than 50% make it (do not divorce) and this does not equate into how many of those remaining marriages are "happy" and are not dysfunctional.
Now drown that marriage in alcohol or even an alcoholic or addict at some stage of sobriety or real recovery and there are new challenges and risks associated with the overall health and stability of that relationship that is supposed to be for life (a really, really long time).
Can we even guess what the odds might be ? Less than 5% success? Too generous maybe.
It's like playing marital russian roulette with 5 bullets and planning your 50th wedding anniversary!
And I am the optimist in the group... my A is active in recovery and doing great and I am very happy right now... but I live one day at a time and am stable in my own recovery and he knows my boundaries are alcohol free. You relapse you are on your own and we live in seperate houses... additionally I am no spring chicken and my reproductive years are way behind me.
If I were shopping for a future father for my children and a mate for a lifetime I would want a resume that includes family alcoholic history and lots of counseling pre-marriage... definately do not want a ready made family with a broke guy new in recovery living at home with mom!
If she is determined to go ahead with the relationship she should seriously insist on NOT setting a date until he is completely financially stable and Independent of mommy and daddy with some $ in the bank.
That should slow things down long enough to see what is under the hood with the guy...
Now drown that marriage in alcohol or even an alcoholic or addict at some stage of sobriety or real recovery and there are new challenges and risks associated with the overall health and stability of that relationship that is supposed to be for life (a really, really long time).
Can we even guess what the odds might be ? Less than 5% success? Too generous maybe.
It's like playing marital russian roulette with 5 bullets and planning your 50th wedding anniversary!
And I am the optimist in the group... my A is active in recovery and doing great and I am very happy right now... but I live one day at a time and am stable in my own recovery and he knows my boundaries are alcohol free. You relapse you are on your own and we live in seperate houses... additionally I am no spring chicken and my reproductive years are way behind me.
If I were shopping for a future father for my children and a mate for a lifetime I would want a resume that includes family alcoholic history and lots of counseling pre-marriage... definately do not want a ready made family with a broke guy new in recovery living at home with mom!
If she is determined to go ahead with the relationship she should seriously insist on NOT setting a date until he is completely financially stable and Independent of mommy and daddy with some $ in the bank.
That should slow things down long enough to see what is under the hood with the guy...
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Originally Posted by January28
but a big part of me knows that this could be the worse mistake of her life.
Try this on for size:
Everything, and I mean everything, we experience in life is a learning thing. It will not be the biggest mistake of her life; it will an opportunity, no matter how things turn out.
But, I do know this sentiment.
It's what us parents are like.
The truth is that even after 20 years he could relapse and go back to drinking, but the truth is also that the longer he is sober, the better his odds.
Please don't try and ask her to be reasonable. In her mind she is being. Don't alienate your daughter, as she may need to come to you on day, and if you set up an adversarial relationship with her, well, she won't.
Peace....
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Location: Southern California
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Hi --
If I may, I'd like to offer another perspective. Your story resonated with me, as I see parallels to my own life.
I'm in recovery for an eating disorder, and although I know that is quite different from alcoholism, I think it's a similar beast that takes a different form. So, I can sympathize with your daughter's BF for this reason. Also, my boyfriend has a drinking issue, so I can identify with your daughter's position as well.
I can only talk from my experience, though, so I'll do that here. It is tough to be with an addict (and to be one!), but regardless of whether or not we stay together (and I'm aware that the chances are not great) and/or he gets the sobriety thing long-term, I have to say that this has been the single most important and instructive relationship I've ever had. I wouldn't recommend it, but love happens.
But because of this relationship, I've learned to be more self-reliant, to stop hoping for fairy tales and to deal with life, and love, according to reality's terms. I'm doing some work in Al-Anon in addition to my other program, and I'm learning how to love myself and take better care of myself as a result. I also am one of those people who is oddly grateful to be an addict, because of the rewards of the program I've found that works for me -- it helps me grow spiritually, and that's become really important to me. Blessings in disguise, in other words.
I don't want to sugarcoat anything or suggest that getting involved with an addict is a benign path to personal enlightenment. I know the effects of this disease can be devastating and far-reaching, and for all I know, I could leave my ABF tomorrow. I suppose what I am saying is that grace and growth and love can happen in unlikely scenarios, and although it's a good idea to go into commitment with as many factors in your favor as possible, even if a relationship doesn't ultimately work out, there can be a lot of good that comes from it anyway. It's hard to know from the outset, and it's hard to know from the outside.
Most important, I hope your daughter's BF continues to work whatever is working for him and that your daughter and you are happy no matter what happens!
If I may, I'd like to offer another perspective. Your story resonated with me, as I see parallels to my own life.
I'm in recovery for an eating disorder, and although I know that is quite different from alcoholism, I think it's a similar beast that takes a different form. So, I can sympathize with your daughter's BF for this reason. Also, my boyfriend has a drinking issue, so I can identify with your daughter's position as well.
I can only talk from my experience, though, so I'll do that here. It is tough to be with an addict (and to be one!), but regardless of whether or not we stay together (and I'm aware that the chances are not great) and/or he gets the sobriety thing long-term, I have to say that this has been the single most important and instructive relationship I've ever had. I wouldn't recommend it, but love happens.
But because of this relationship, I've learned to be more self-reliant, to stop hoping for fairy tales and to deal with life, and love, according to reality's terms. I'm doing some work in Al-Anon in addition to my other program, and I'm learning how to love myself and take better care of myself as a result. I also am one of those people who is oddly grateful to be an addict, because of the rewards of the program I've found that works for me -- it helps me grow spiritually, and that's become really important to me. Blessings in disguise, in other words.
I don't want to sugarcoat anything or suggest that getting involved with an addict is a benign path to personal enlightenment. I know the effects of this disease can be devastating and far-reaching, and for all I know, I could leave my ABF tomorrow. I suppose what I am saying is that grace and growth and love can happen in unlikely scenarios, and although it's a good idea to go into commitment with as many factors in your favor as possible, even if a relationship doesn't ultimately work out, there can be a lot of good that comes from it anyway. It's hard to know from the outset, and it's hard to know from the outside.
Most important, I hope your daughter's BF continues to work whatever is working for him and that your daughter and you are happy no matter what happens!
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