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Hurting the kids to suck me back in

Old 10-07-2011, 09:24 AM
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Hurting the kids to suck me back in

It's not going to work but darn it am I angry, sad, hurt, but not surprised. I knew this was coming and I've been waiting for it so I am not shocked but still, it's hurting a lot.

Basic details: stbxah has been living with his brother. Their parents pay the brothers rent. This was an arrangement AH offered bc it meant we could continue to pay the mortgage (which we can't if he is paying rent elsewhere) and the girls could stay in their home. He's professed loudly to anyone who will listen that the girls are his priority and he wants them to be able to stay here.

Last night I received this email. It is interesting to note that AH's brother has been HORRID to me for years and AH has told me over and over that it's me, I need to relax, I need to accept him as he is etc... Basically he allowed his family to be abusive toward me and told me it was no big deal. It's interesting to note this given what he says in his email:


What i need to talk about is my living situation. I cannot live my brother bc he is insane, and violent and I do not deserve to be treated the way he treats me. I found a place and it is something that I am going to do. I am the breadwinner and I have every right to choose how I spend that money. If there is another situation, i am open to it. I am miserable about us, and the state of our family and marriage, but i still need a room to sleep in. I am talking w the guy tomorrow and giving him 1st and last months rent and security deposit unless you decide something will change before then and let me move back in, i have no other option; i am tired of being homeless.
He is NOT homeless. We both know it too. He is using this as a threat and he WILL follow through and spend money out of resentment toward me without regard for what this will do to his girls that he pretends to care about. D3 will have to leave the school she just started and our house needs to be sold. The end of the world? No. Manipulative and evil of him to do this to his kids? Yup.

I hate him more than I ever thought possible right now. I know he's "acting like an alcoholic"... I know.. It's just one thing to intellectually know he's capable of this and another thing to have it happen and realize that he cares so little about anything but himself that he'll ruin others lives...

PS. I haven't replied and don't plan to. But I have received emails today that tell me that my silent treatment is a way to exercise power and control and that I am hurting the girls by my actions (of not letting him come back). Again I saw this coming but it still hurts to hear it.

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Old 10-07-2011, 09:34 AM
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Oh sweetie, I'm so sorry this is happening to you. Life can be so hard but I'm sure you know that what you're doing is the best thing for your girls. What your husband is doing I went through for years with my X it's just a dare game because they know us so well thinking we will cave. Stand tuff.

I'll be praying for you.
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Old 10-07-2011, 09:40 AM
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When I divorced, selling the house and moving to a different town was required. Not so much for financial reasons, but because my job was in a different town and I didn't want to be 35 miles away during the day, arrange long distance child-care, continue commuting for 1-2 hours every day, etc. I was so concerned about how it would affect my children, I nearly gave myself an ulcer worrying about it.

As it turned out, they thrived in the new place. It was much better for them than the old place. The new house, the new schools, everything was an improvement.

I think sometimes we put too much stock in the "house" and the "neighborhood" and the "school." Children thrive when they have a loving, stable atmosphere to live in. We adults get much more attached to the physical environment than they do. The sooner you extricate yourself from this man and his toxicity, the sooner your children will settle in and begin to thrive.

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Old 10-07-2011, 09:42 AM
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Once you file for divorce, you can have child support set up and he'll have to pay it. Right now you are in limbo and he's free to withhold money as a way to manipulate you.
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Old 10-07-2011, 09:54 AM
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Hmmm, pretty sure I said several times I WASN'T surprised but that it was upsetting nonetheless.

I'm not proceeding with the divorce right now bc of finances and have kind of been over that about a million times on here.

I also have applied for and been denied a RO which has also been detailed on here. If it were as simple as saying "I want one" I'd have it.

My lawyer is the one who suggested if at all possible waiting to move fwd until I was working. I agree. There are a million reasons for it and I'm really not here to explain the minutae of my own situation.

I know how he will behave, I am just frustrated by it.

It's feeling a little heavy on the lecturing. The "when are you going to stop" I could do without. I'm going to always feel sad for my kids that their father is who he is and I came here to talk about it rather than react to his bs.

Also, he is is not "in and out" of the house. He spent 45 min here on Sunday. Prior to that I dictated when he came and I stayed while he visited. It's odd bc the messages are mixed here sometimes-- when he was here alone with them I was told to not let that occur... When I am here with him that's also bad. He's their father, I have no right (though I tried to get a RO and it was a collosal disaster) to keep him from seeing them and my own lawyer, knowing who AH is, his connections and his pathological lying, has TOLD ME wisely to not behave in ways that he and his lawyer can construe to be "alienating".

Anyone read the book Divorce Poison? The antics described in there are my AH and I am treading carefully. When I applied for the RO and should have gotten it, AH and his lawyer out and out lied, distorted and spun reality and were believed. That's what the divorce will be like too I have no doubt. If there's a way to get a RO bc someone emails and says they're going to spend money on an apt I'd love to hear how to do so.

Sometimes people just need to come here bc living with an alcoholic (even from afar and even when you don't respond) is too much to take. I'm having that day. That's all.
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:01 AM
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since your attorney has advised you not to file right now, you might want to ask her/him what actions can be taken to make sure he pays his responsibilities. it's not in his best interests to let the house go into foreclosure either. he can't be that dumb??? or ca nhe?
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:03 AM
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Yep, he's trying to manipulate you. Good for you that you see it for what it is. I agree their abhorent self -centered behavior hurts very much. Surround yourself with people who lift you up. You're on the right path.
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:05 AM
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I was going to suggest a second legal opinion might not be a bad idea. Advising someone not to file divorce against an abusive alcoholic due to lack of employment doesn't really seem right to me. Unless said lawyer is more concerned about getting paid than what's best for you......

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Old 10-07-2011, 10:07 AM
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wtbh, just let it out and scream. I'm sure you feel sometimes that you're in a box and there is no way out? I've been there but you will find your way out and in your own time.
Keep the faith and He'll make a way of escape for you.
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:19 AM
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WTBH - I so know the hurt and anger you are going through. Even though ours was a rental and not our own home - it was still the only home the kids really knew and grew up there and had lots of friends, super near/walkable distance to their school, etc, etc. I really tried my hardest to make stbxah to leave that home. I lost count of the number of times he left and walked back into the house. I finally realised that I had to move out, there was no other choice, even though I was paying the rent and the lease was in my name. I went through similar emotions as you - why can't he think about what's better for the kids . My younger son was so sad and upset the first day he came home from my sister's to the new house (they spent the summer at my sister's and I moved when they were away). The first night he sobbed so much asking to "go back home". I was so upset and cried along with him, cursed stbxah and my life and everything in between. But you know what, after about 3 months now, younger son is settled in this new apartment, he found new friends here and we are doing much better. I finally realised home is me and the kids and what we make of it, not the actual place.. As long as we are all peaceful, healthy and sane and it is a nurturing place, a sanctuary - thats all that matters..

So, wanted to chime in and offer my experience and to second LaTeeDa's first post.

I also empathise with you about the alienating the parent part.. It is tough balancing act - We have to make sure we are not alienating the alcoholic parent and at the same time we have to protect our kids from the unstable alcoholic parent. sucks big time..

hang in there, good luck and lots of strength your way..this is a tough time, keep doing the next right thing and things will fall in place..
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:28 AM
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I chose this lawyer bc I need someone good (bc AH's attorney is a well well well known shark that his parents are paying for). But I can't have her do much of anything until I can pay her retainer and I can't pay it right now. I literally have no money and don't have that much on credit to pay her with. So, that's a HUGE piece of it.

I am not naive enough to think that the legal system gives a $hit about what's true. Lawyers who argue the best and are the fiecest fighters have just as good a chance at prevailing as the truth does-- maybe even better.

So, I've waited to file bc I don't want to share custody and lose time with my girls simply bc I have no money for a fancy lawyer and that's what will happen. AH has proven that he will hurt them to get at me and I have no doubt that will continue into custody issues as well.

I think I'm going to tell him I'll move out with the girls and go to my mom's which is the only other option. She's severely mentally ill and I am more scared to leave the girls with her than with AH but that's it for options. When he knows he can be in the house I imagine his victimhood bs will end. And I guess I need to apply for a new credit card and pay the retainer on that... This is a nightmare.
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Old 10-07-2011, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy View Post
I think I'm going to tell him I'll move out with the girls and go to my mom's which is the only other option. She's severely mentally ill and I am more scared to leave the girls with her than with AH but that's it for options. When he knows he can be in the house I imagine his victimhood bs will end. And I guess I need to apply for a new credit card and pay the retainer on that... This is a nightmare.
But these very well may be the steps that end your nightmare.

I found confidence and strength when I took my power back and did things for myself/children without having to consider the alcoholic.

I left my AH the house/debt/mortgage. He lost it all.

It has been 2 1/2 years since I left that marriage and that home. Today our home is a place of love and mutual respect. We are healthy. For that I am grateful.

Hoping you find your path too
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:04 PM
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Hey there WTBH....

So, his temporary living situation has become unacceptable to him. Okay. He needs to do something different. Okay. He has told you he has two choices - rent an apartment, or move back home. You don't want him home (and I don't blame you!!) - so he has to rent an apartment or you have to move out and goes someplace else. If he gets an apartment, it's going to cut into mortgage money so the mortgage can't get paid as due. Okay.

Facts, WTBH. Stick to facts when trying to figure out what YOU need to do.

If you stay in the house, the mortgage won't be paid in full so you or he, or whomever has their name on it needs to 1) talk to the bank to determine an interim plan for the payments to avoid foreclosure and then 2) come up with a long term plan to either get the money to pay the mortgage or 3) get the house on the market and get it sold.

If you move out, he has the house - he pays the mortgage. House is fine. But you have to find 1) a short term living situation that requires no money (Vera House?), and 2) a long term solution to support yourself and the kids.

That's it. When I keep things simple and stick to the facts, life gets simpler, clearer, and less emotional for me.

I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers as you determine the course of action that is best for YOU!!
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:51 PM
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Honestly, I believe, until you move forward and file for the divorce nothing will change.

You are following your own agenda, and get upset if we, who post here try to both
support you and get you headed in what we believe to be the right direction.

You are frustrated, I am frustrated, so, we have that in common.

My only suggestion is that you get a job, any job, to fund hiring an attorney.

My best...Dolly
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Old 10-07-2011, 05:42 PM
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Shannon-
I appreciate your response so much... it helps to be reminded to just break it down into facts and steps. I am much better at doing that when it's someone else's situation and your post was really really helpful. Thank you!

Dolly- What's up with your post? Maybe you need to ask yourself what it is that you need to work through bc really?

You are following your own agenda, and get upset if we, who post here try to both support you and get you headed in what we believe to be the right direction.


I think I'm headed in a fine direction thanks. AH doesn't live here, I'm content and happier than I've been in years. His manipulation is frustrating and his alcoholic behavior infuriating at times. That's not me not headed ina right direction. That's me being frustrated. I'm not upset but thanks for telling me how I feel-- I didn't have enough of that in my marriage to AH. I'm just correcting mis-stated facts. That's not upset. That's just stating it like it is. Sorry if you're taking it as something else. Not my responsibility.

And I'm not sure what you think my agenda is but I've kicked my AH out, I have almost no contact with him, I haven't been reacting to his crap and I'm doing the best I can for my kids right now. Frankly I think I'm doing pretty well. My agenda? I'm trying to be realistic about a complicated situation. I don't intend to justify or defend my actions and I'd like it is instead of assuming you know the whole story (and I'm not about to give every detail here which I know bothers some) you not pass judgement. I have my children's therapist and my lawyer both warning me to tread carefully about doing anything that AH and his lawyer can construe as alienation and many of the suggestions here would do that. Perhaps I am avoiding the inevitable (a long, costly, horrible divorce) but I am not living with AH any longer, am generally very happy with how life is now and my choice is to wait a bit and see if AH will choose to behave in a manner that makes a miserable, costly, acrimonious battle avoidable. I'm not really asking anyone here to agree with or like that idea. It's okay that you don't. Really.

You are frustrated, I am frustrated, so, we have that in common.


So, you're welcome to not post and thus not be frustrated... Right? Maybe take a step back and ask yourself why you are so frustrated and why you are compelled to tell me that I am frustrating you rather than just leave this be? Maybe there's something to learn there...


My only suggestion is that you get a job, any job, to fund hiring an attorney.


It's good that you are presuming to know what I am and am not doing re: work and where I am and am not working. I realize I contributed to this confusion by saying I'm not working-- I really really didn't want to get into the nitpicky... but I am working or will be-- it just hasn't begun yet so I'm in limbo til the months end when I start. And fyi- with young kids, my working options are limited to hours when they are in school so the "get any job" wasn't an option for me and I had to find something that worked for my family and I. I'm consulting for a school district while I wait to find something permanent. It's not ideal but it's something. And I won't make anything close to what will pay a retainer. Not sure what job does right off the bat.

If I am choosing between a roof over the kids head and paying a lawyer, I'm choosing the former and the divorce will wait and that's kind of where I'm at and I'm okay with it.
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Old 10-10-2011, 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy View Post
at me and I have no doubt that will continue into custody issues as well.

I think I'm going to tell him I'll move out with the girls and go to my mom's which is the only other option. She's severely mentally ill and I am more scared to leave the girls with her than with AH but that's it for options. When he knows he can be in the house I imagine his victimhood bs will end. And I guess I need to apply for a new credit card and pay the retainer on that... This is a nightmare.
Bad idea. Surely he knows your mom is nutso...and will use that in court to say your not providing a safe environment for your kids...and he will get shared if not full custody.

Move to a cheap apt. Everything will be in your name. Make a clean start. You'll also be showing that to the court that your being self sufficient and stable.
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:38 PM
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WTBH,

I'm still reading your posts and remembering some other at-risk family cases I've worked on a little bit.

There are a couple of ideas that come to mind that I hope are helpful to you:

You can arrange to meet your STBXAH with the girls for supervised visitation in a public place. That way you've done a few things:
You've avoided parental alienation.
You've reasonably assured your safety.
You've documented the visit.

You can also arrange for an attorney who will take your case with the confidence that your STBXAH, who has admittedly, in writing, been the 'breadwinner' is ordered to pay ALL attorney's fees. Many attorneys will take this case with confidence and not require an upfront retainer.

Also, his attempt at entering the house under the guise of financial loss to you is considered economic abuse in some states and can be awarded as part of pain and suffering in a civil suit in addition to the divorce proceedings. There are precedents in almost every state to establish that, especially in households with children.

Moving forward in this situation is especially hard since your STBXAH is especially nasty. He will fight dirty; there is no doubt about that.

Hang in there while you consider getting a little creative.
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Old 10-12-2011, 01:23 PM
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Just wanted to add my sympathy.

I was (long ago, although it doesn't feel that way) in a similar situation---H with highly paid legal counsel and me caught between a rock and a hard place. Did what I thought was best for my child at considerable cost to myself. I don't regret it, but it was a huge cost.

I agree the legal system can't always protect you or your kids. Sending moral support.
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Old 10-12-2011, 03:56 PM
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Danae- Thanks so much. Doesn't change at all the fact that money buys people rights they don't deserve and changes facts into subjective "interpretations" when presented by a weasel of a lawyer... But, it helps to know that others have been through it and have empathy and know that it's hard.

Thank for you for the moral support. It means a lot.
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