Manipulation?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 30
Manipulation?
Just got a call from my 23 year old AS wanting me to drive up (6 hours) and spend a few days with him so he can quit drinking and smoking legal pot. Says he knows he has a problem and but needs someone to be there with him to help him make the right decisions so he can stay in school.
My son has been living with his now sober (5 years) father who drives trucks and is gone several weeks at a time. He is currently trying to get home for a couple of days but independent of the recent request from son.
Son has been an alcolholic for several years. Has started and dropped school many times. After paying for 4 semesters I finally said no more support from me. Ex and I bailed him out of trouble many, many times. He is currently on probation (2nd time) and always seems to just avoid jail/prison. The last time I refused to help pay for a lawyer so ex took care of it.
After reading 'Co dependent No More' and others, finally attending Al Anon, and reading on this site, I realize what a co dependent relationship my ex and son have. And I have certainly contributed my fair share. However, I am desperately trying my best to mind my own business and let my alcolohic/addicted family members take responsibility for their own actions. I am finally living my own life and have been quite happy the last several weeks.
So, while I am happy that my son realizes he needs help, I am conflicted over how to approach this. My son consistently misses doctor appointments, doesn't like his therapist, doesn't like to take medication, etc., etc. He refuses to go to AA or anything else that looks like rehab. My ex, of course, feels I should drop everything and go visit for a couple of days.
I told my son that he is a man and is capable of making his own decisions. I told him that if he wants to drink, he will, regardless of whether I am there or not. Been there, done that.....for many years with ex. He said he just needs someone to talk to when he gets the urge to drink. I told him he really needs a sponsor. I asked him whether he had talked to a counselor/therapist at the school. At this point he said that I was going to be a B and that was not what he needed. He can't believe I can be so selfish and all I do is think about myself.
Talked to my ex about this and I'm pretty sure he feels the same way even though he is very fed up with son's lack of responsibility and accountability as well.
Feels like I'm being manipulated. My son is very skilled in that arena.
Just needed to vent ......
My son has been living with his now sober (5 years) father who drives trucks and is gone several weeks at a time. He is currently trying to get home for a couple of days but independent of the recent request from son.
Son has been an alcolholic for several years. Has started and dropped school many times. After paying for 4 semesters I finally said no more support from me. Ex and I bailed him out of trouble many, many times. He is currently on probation (2nd time) and always seems to just avoid jail/prison. The last time I refused to help pay for a lawyer so ex took care of it.
After reading 'Co dependent No More' and others, finally attending Al Anon, and reading on this site, I realize what a co dependent relationship my ex and son have. And I have certainly contributed my fair share. However, I am desperately trying my best to mind my own business and let my alcolohic/addicted family members take responsibility for their own actions. I am finally living my own life and have been quite happy the last several weeks.
So, while I am happy that my son realizes he needs help, I am conflicted over how to approach this. My son consistently misses doctor appointments, doesn't like his therapist, doesn't like to take medication, etc., etc. He refuses to go to AA or anything else that looks like rehab. My ex, of course, feels I should drop everything and go visit for a couple of days.
I told my son that he is a man and is capable of making his own decisions. I told him that if he wants to drink, he will, regardless of whether I am there or not. Been there, done that.....for many years with ex. He said he just needs someone to talk to when he gets the urge to drink. I told him he really needs a sponsor. I asked him whether he had talked to a counselor/therapist at the school. At this point he said that I was going to be a B and that was not what he needed. He can't believe I can be so selfish and all I do is think about myself.
Talked to my ex about this and I'm pretty sure he feels the same way even though he is very fed up with son's lack of responsibility and accountability as well.
Feels like I'm being manipulated. My son is very skilled in that arena.
Just needed to vent ......
Its_me_jen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Salina, Ks
Posts: 8,547
Most alcoholics/addicts are very skilled manipulators. I know I was.
My thoughts were that since you aren't a skilled professional in dealing with addictions what help could you be really? If he needs support he could call you along with his therapist, his doctor, and AA ..... but for him to say he can't get sober because you won't come be there with him is just a B.S. excuse in my opinion.
When I was drinking I had all kinds of "reason" why I drank. I was great at making them up on the fly. I was in such denial about how bad my disease had gotten. Even at a point that I sincerely wanted to get and stay sober I really struggled. As much as I might like to I'd like to blame that on other people around me and stressors in my life but we all know that's not why an alcoholic drinks. Not in the end especially.
Glad to hear you've read Codependent No more. Great book! Have you checked into Alanon in your area?
My thoughts were that since you aren't a skilled professional in dealing with addictions what help could you be really? If he needs support he could call you along with his therapist, his doctor, and AA ..... but for him to say he can't get sober because you won't come be there with him is just a B.S. excuse in my opinion.
When I was drinking I had all kinds of "reason" why I drank. I was great at making them up on the fly. I was in such denial about how bad my disease had gotten. Even at a point that I sincerely wanted to get and stay sober I really struggled. As much as I might like to I'd like to blame that on other people around me and stressors in my life but we all know that's not why an alcoholic drinks. Not in the end especially.
Glad to hear you've read Codependent No more. Great book! Have you checked into Alanon in your area?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 14,246
The emotions I felt about my son were strong too and there were plenty of times that I had to work hard at keeping myself from being manipulated.
I struggled without any additional pressure directly from him because unlike your situation; my son was not disrespectful. He pretty much owned his behavior from the get go- and continued that way for the ten odd years before he got clean.
He probably lost his temper twice that I recall. That is _not_ to say that he didn't try to get us to do things for him that were his responsibility to take care of.
Regardless of all that history- the fact remains that only when I finally decided to let the chips fall where they may- did he face the full brunt of his own actions and choices. Coincidentally that was also a new beginning for me to live better; free from chaos & directing my emotions and energies in positive ways for myself.
A I read your post from beginning to end- your AS goes quite quickly from wanting and needing your help to calling you names and being disrespectful.
That attitude and those words would be deal breakers for me. I remember learning some good catch phrases to use with my son such as "well, that's something you will need to think about" or "I'm sure you will figure out what you need to do." It helped having a planned response to whatever was going on with him.
From one mom to another...hang in there. I apploud you for your wonderful recovery and hope you will find a workable solution regarding your son and whether or not you will go see him this time.
I struggled without any additional pressure directly from him because unlike your situation; my son was not disrespectful. He pretty much owned his behavior from the get go- and continued that way for the ten odd years before he got clean.
He probably lost his temper twice that I recall. That is _not_ to say that he didn't try to get us to do things for him that were his responsibility to take care of.
Regardless of all that history- the fact remains that only when I finally decided to let the chips fall where they may- did he face the full brunt of his own actions and choices. Coincidentally that was also a new beginning for me to live better; free from chaos & directing my emotions and energies in positive ways for myself.
A I read your post from beginning to end- your AS goes quite quickly from wanting and needing your help to calling you names and being disrespectful.
That attitude and those words would be deal breakers for me. I remember learning some good catch phrases to use with my son such as "well, that's something you will need to think about" or "I'm sure you will figure out what you need to do." It helped having a planned response to whatever was going on with him.
From one mom to another...hang in there. I apploud you for your wonderful recovery and hope you will find a workable solution regarding your son and whether or not you will go see him this time.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 30
Paperdolls - Love your little pregnancy tracker.....very cute. Thanks for your insight. I have started going to Al-Anon and have found it to be very beneficial. I don't have a sponsor yet but plan on doing so. I've read quite a bit on the AA site also and it is very helpful to hear from that side of things.
CMC - thank you for your comments as well. Yes, he does have a quick temper and can be extremely disrespectful. He has made very rude comments and then later apologized for them. It's interesting to me how I ever tolerated that behavior.
I guess I don't understand what he thinks can be gained by 'someone' being there for him. He also has anxiety attacks that appear to be aggravated by drinking. They have been severe enough for him to go to the hospital.....but the hospital told him the last time he went that they would no longer treat him since he hasn't gone back to the doctor to get medication. And as pointed out, I am not a professional and really don't want to be put in this position.
My feeling at the moment is if I go visit him it will be to convince him to go get professional help. Regardlesss, I'm working on the guilt feelings.
CMC - thank you for your comments as well. Yes, he does have a quick temper and can be extremely disrespectful. He has made very rude comments and then later apologized for them. It's interesting to me how I ever tolerated that behavior.
I guess I don't understand what he thinks can be gained by 'someone' being there for him. He also has anxiety attacks that appear to be aggravated by drinking. They have been severe enough for him to go to the hospital.....but the hospital told him the last time he went that they would no longer treat him since he hasn't gone back to the doctor to get medication. And as pointed out, I am not a professional and really don't want to be put in this position.
My feeling at the moment is if I go visit him it will be to convince him to go get professional help. Regardlesss, I'm working on the guilt feelings.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
I still can get a twinge of those guilt feelings, but the difference today is I don't have to act on them.
AD called me last time she got evicted, crying, and even though staying with me is not/will never be an option, I did feel those heart pangs.
As has been said more than once, being the mom of an addict/alcoholic isn't for weenies!
Sending you hugs of support!
AD called me last time she got evicted, crying, and even though staying with me is not/will never be an option, I did feel those heart pangs.
As has been said more than once, being the mom of an addict/alcoholic isn't for weenies!
Sending you hugs of support!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 110
Wow. "if you come, I will get help. If you don't come, then I won't get help, and I can blame it on you".
One of my kids had some issues (not addiction) but the instinct from her was to lean on me. As a mom, it made me feel needed, except things never changed. Maybe it goes with the mom label..we ALWAYS are supposed to be the ultimate support system. And it took so much, to finally make it clear to her...I COULD NOT HELP anymore. I didn't have the resources or the power.
My heart goes out to you. Really. For me, I used total hard core...WHAT would she do, if I was dead? It would be up to her to do what was needed...or not. No middle ground.
But I sure can see where a mother is the most vulnerable to "do it for me" mind games.
One of my kids had some issues (not addiction) but the instinct from her was to lean on me. As a mom, it made me feel needed, except things never changed. Maybe it goes with the mom label..we ALWAYS are supposed to be the ultimate support system. And it took so much, to finally make it clear to her...I COULD NOT HELP anymore. I didn't have the resources or the power.
My heart goes out to you. Really. For me, I used total hard core...WHAT would she do, if I was dead? It would be up to her to do what was needed...or not. No middle ground.
But I sure can see where a mother is the most vulnerable to "do it for me" mind games.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 267
Originally Posted by pandypoo 
... so he can quit drinking and smoking legal pot. Says he knows he has a problem and but needs someone to be there with him to help him make the right decisions so he can stay in school.
) if he means synthetic marijuana and he is in Texas (and many other states) it isn't legal anymore Texas outlaws K2, Spice and other synthetic marijuana products - KTRE.com Lufkin and Nacogdoches | Programmaddict
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: God's Hands
Posts: 217
Originally Posted by Thlayli
Just FYI (or FHI ) if he means synthetic marijuana and he is in Texas (and many other states) it isn't legal anymore Texas outlaws K2, Spice and other synthetic marijuana products - KTRE.com Lufkin and Nacogdoches |
) if he means synthetic marijuana and he is in Texas (and many other states) it isn't legal anymore Texas outlaws K2, Spice and other synthetic marijuana products - KTRE.com Lufkin and Nacogdoches |FWIW, I took "legal pot" to mean prescription marijuana although, I do not know Texas state law on that subject.
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 447
I think that HE THINKS he may want to quit and wants you to help....he knows that isn't the way to do it but he still isn't ready to do it the only way it works...with a program.
Okay...maybe not the only....but for most even if they quit drinking w/out a program they continue to be A$%holes and are basically alcoholics w/out the alcohol.
So yes. Manipulation ...but don't think it's purposeful. I think it's what he truly believes to be true.
Okay...maybe not the only....but for most even if they quit drinking w/out a program they continue to be A$%holes and are basically alcoholics w/out the alcohol.
So yes. Manipulation ...but don't think it's purposeful. I think it's what he truly believes to be true.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 30
Yes you are right about that...he wants someone else to make the decision for him so he can blame them for the results of whatever happens. He is very quick to blame everyone else for his situation.
He says he wants help but only if he doesn't have to do anything.
He says he wants help but only if he doesn't have to do anything.
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