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Old 09-13-2011, 03:04 PM   #41 (permalink)  
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(((MTUSA))) - I agree with what (((StarCat))) wrote about talking about yourself. It was hearing that my family was going on without me, that had a big impact when I finally "got it". I hadn't been there when my stepsister gave birth to my nephew and both almost died. I hadn't been there when my stepmom's MIL (who I called "granny") died.

I've made sure I am there for stuff like that, now, though try not to get all codie. My cousin recently died (a month ago) from hepatitis he got while shooting up drugs almost 30 years ago. My dad and I were able to drive to CA and back, and be there for my aunt, uncles, g'ma, etc.

I am grateful for every day I have, and I try to make sure I make living amends whenever possible.

I also have heard about the shame and fear of having an addict child from my dad. It's a pain I wish I'd never put him through, but we are closer than we ever have been.

Hugs and prayers,

Amy
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Old 09-13-2011, 04:04 PM   #42 (permalink)  
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I hoped for advice, not sarcasm. The site consists of words, which I believe many have found helpful.

I love my child. He is drowning in drugs. I cannot simply "take care" of myself while he kills himself.

I am not looking for magic words.
Hi, thank you for sharing. I think it is great that your son has a mom that loves him so much. My mom hasn't called me in years, and I am not an addict(that is another story).

Anyhow, I know how hard it is, at least for me to take care of myself when all I do sometimes is worry about my addicted son. I feel sometimes like I am dying right along with him. Wow, that sounded grim.

I do think that there is probably nothing you can say that will make him see anything, but at least he knows that you really love him, and that matters.

My thoughts are with you and your son.
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Old 09-13-2011, 04:41 PM   #43 (permalink)  
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Hi MT!

I remember when Mr. HG and I bought a bunch of material and tried to give it to his AS.....it went over like a ton of bricks. We spent all our time, all our energy, every waking thought and moment trying to get him to read this, think about that, to MAKE him turn his life around. All to no avail. I can just imagine the pressure he felt to be on the receiving end of all the readings and programs we wanted him to try.

I think my A stepson might have enjoyed just hearing about what we were doing and about everyday things in our lives instead. It sure would have made our lives more peaceful had we NOT spent all our time trying to save someone who simply did not want to be saved.

I hope and pray that your son will use his remaining time in jail to consider what his life has been like.....but that is his job.

I'm keeping you, your son, and the rest of your family in my thoughts and prayers.

HG
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Old 09-13-2011, 04:55 PM   #44 (permalink)  
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On My Way,

Heroin is a sickening drug. Anyone, showing another person to do this has to be sick and cruel.

I am so sorry for your girl, and for you. I am thinking of you both.

Deb
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:08 PM   #45 (permalink)  
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Thanks very much HYDRO GIRL,

I thought about that... (Sending book to jail). I think I'll send it anonymous and pray it makes it into his hands. It may, it's a small jail, and they are good to the prisoners, which I believe is rare.

I am sorry about your step-son. His mind is focused on using and obtaining drugs, not on his life. It is horrible for them and for all who love them. Thank you for caring about your step-son. I know this is difficult, he's not your child, but he is a human being.

Please don't forget that he is a human being, and didn't sign up for a step-mother. I am still going to get the books recommended. The jailers are wonderful, and they will likely make sure they reach him and also end up in the library.

Keep caring about your step-son.

Deb
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Old 09-13-2011, 07:05 PM   #46 (permalink)  
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Hi December,

WOW...you and I could really talk. My mom (when she was alive) did that to me, for years. That was so manipulative and hurtful. I had put her in treatment the 3rd time, and then she wouldn't speak to me for something like 5 years. It's weird, you (I) know there is something really wrong with their thinking (alcohol and a chip missing), yet it is a natural desire to have the approval and love of one's parent(s). Honest to God, when she died I had panic attacks. I couldn't figure out why. I guess I always hoped for a "mom" and not that woman to be my mother. I just wanted a mom, who loved. I too was such a good kid. I made mistakes, but not criminal or drugs/alcohol kind. I was really a very responsible person considering I raised myself (no exaggeration). I am so sorry for you. I don't think I have ever met someone whom had experienced that. Their behavior is sick, and selfish. They know they hurt people, and thrive on it. I know what you must feel like. Honestly, in the end her death was a blessing as she wasn't just an alcoholic, but cruel and manipulative, taking for granted all those (including her own parents-her father outlived her). She was flat out mean. See her for what she is. There shouldn't be compassion for people who are simply mean, and abuse others.

I wasn't a drinker or a drug user either.

I feel sometimes like I am dying right along with him. Wow, that sounded grim.

Your life has so many similarities. You have a child (son) also on drugs, and only a parent knows what that feels like. It takes away your reason to live. People might think (in my case) "Well, you've got two other children...", but it doesn't matter. Losing a child before your very eyes with something that could be stopped, and the powerlessness is unbelievably heartwrenching.

You said: "I do think that there is probably nothing you can say that will make him see anything, but at least he knows that you really love him, and that matters."

I know it is important for any person to know they are loved, and would never treat my children (adults or not) the way I was treated by ignoring them or disowning them. That is to instill hurt, to accomplish a goal. My kids are not to be my robots, I just want them to be happy and healthy. Using drugs or alcohol produces neither.

"My thoughts are with you and your son." Me too, and thank you so much. I really mean that. Email me any time.

Deb
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Old 09-13-2011, 07:13 PM   #47 (permalink)  
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Thanks so much Amy. Star Cat really did give unique advice. I spoke with my husband about that tonight.

I PROMISE that every minute you spend with your father sober/non-addicted, is a J.O.Y. given to him just because you are safe and sound. You do not need to be perfect. Perfectly, imperfect is what I think is ok!

Thank you so much for sharing your life and difficult times with me. I would not want to shove in his face that we are going on, but I do think he does not realize that it's been all about him for years. I won't turn my back, I will continue to love him more than my own life (I mean that), but I will take that advice and stop focusing on him during our conversations or any notes/cards I might send.

Be so proud that you stopped doing whatever it was you were doing. I can only begin to imagine, how physically and mentally difficult that was for you to do. I promise, you gavae all who love you back a piece of life and gave yourself life by doing so. You and the others are awesome. I pray for those still stuck in this (and I am not a Bible thumper...I just believe.)

Deb
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Old 09-13-2011, 07:21 PM   #48 (permalink)  
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I cannot put myself into the mind of someone who is an addict or alcoholic. I don't know how they think. I have proven this time and time again.

MTSU, as someone who is a closet smoker in 2011 I think you do know something about addiction. Perhaps being honest about why you continue to smoke (and hide it) will give you insight into your son's issues.

I'm not here to be nasty, but this seems like hypocrisy: nicotine is as much of a drug as alcohol and heroin and certainly as deadly.
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Old 09-13-2011, 07:25 PM   #49 (permalink)  
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AVRT,

In the last day, I have been given gifts by so many on this board. Those sharing similar struggles, those who struggle as my son, yet every single person has proven that they have a wonderful heart and would help if they could.

The suggestions at times have almost stopped me in my tracks. Some so simple, no psycho-babble.

I am going to get through this board, and take all the good thoughts and suggestions by all who posted, and start a thread. Right now, I've got de-humidifiers on 2 floors of my house, fans/blowers, heat machines drying out a minor flood (washing machine drain was plugged with something, and backed up onto floor of laundry room, to hallway, bathroom and dining...) I woke up at 2:30 a.m. last night, because of all the noise. More fans/dehumidifiers, etc. downstairs in crawl space.) I'm also a bit sore as I flew through the air when my feet hit the laundry floor (had no idea it was flooded...) and I guess I am still in pretty good shape for almost 50 (I'll be 49 in November).

I'm going to have to get me one of those "I've fallen and can't get up" necklaces! Sheesh!

Alright, I've gone on and one about ME. Sorry. I'm going to try to put together the thoughts/suggestions by posters, that really wowed me, and get that thread posted.

Thanks and please remember, I can use advice from anyone. Sometimes the best people to give advice or suggestions which actually make sense, are those who have been there. I am wowed, almost overwhelmed as I have searched for months for some help with what to do/not to do, my thinking...and yet I have found some simple thoughts/ideas/suggestions which have helped me so much, and in turn may help my son.

Deb
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Old 09-13-2011, 08:26 PM   #50 (permalink)  
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Hi Sweet Dreams,

Because we are in 2011, most smokers (not all) rarely smoke in public as it's against the law to do so (MT LAW), and it's not exactly acceptable. I have always gone outside to smoke a cigarette. I know several parents who do smoke, and none go to games (football/soccer, etc. and light up). I don't think they have serious issues with being sneaky or anything. It's not socially acceptable, nor is is appreciated by those who don't want to breathe in smoke. So, let's put this in perspective and not try to blow it out of proportion, as if I'm sneaking out behind the bushes like a 10 year old. OK?

I have a friend, who I am sure must overeat in private. I know she goes through her struggles, and do not find what she is doing offensive, but always offer an ear and anything positive if she brings up her weight.

I also have acquaintances who now drink wine to mask their alcohol addiction. For them, they believe they "appear" quite sophisticated.

Nicotene is addictive (obviously), as is alcohol and drugs. Difference is, my mind and actions are not changed by nicotene. No one will find me dead from a nicotene overdose.

I would venture to say you are a very angry person, who lashes out.

I would not, nor have I come on to this or any other forum and flat out attacked anyone. I also am grown up enough to know that EVERYONE has at least once vice (could be sex, could be drugs, could be alcohol, could be overspending, could be a million things).

MY VICE IS SMOKING. That does NOT make me a hypocrit (as you said), it makes me HUMAN.
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Old 09-13-2011, 08:44 PM   #51 (permalink)  
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My apologies MTUSA, it really wasn't my intention to attack you. I just wanted to suggest that you do know something personally about addiction, many of us here do. It's irrational to continue to do something that is awful to our bodies and yet so many of us have or know someone who can't stop. Again my apologies, re-reading my note, I see it does come across as harsh.
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Old 09-13-2011, 09:15 PM   #52 (permalink)  
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Hi Sweet Dreams,

Thanks.

I so clearly remember my mother (an alcoholic), pointing out the faults of others. She was an expert at this.

I'm going to be 49 soon. I believe my best trait is that I realize there are no perfect people, anwhere. I try very hard not to expect perfection or anything even close. Honesty yes, but not perfection. We are all doing our best, and all have our struggles. Some of these might even take place in private.

My sons addiction, has brought me to my knees (literally, praying...begging, wanting to die). It has also taught me compassion which is different than tolerance or acceptance.

Kind of an fyi: You're not a smoker I gather.

It is extremely shameful (rightfully so, I suspect) to be a smoker today. I am ashamed because I know better, and should have given it up permanently by now. I have so much respect for anyone who is recovering from drugs or alcohol. Though I don't crave or desire such things, "What if..." I did?

I had a wonderful neighbor who didn't feed her children vegetables. Horrified me! (seriously). I suggested she put a little butter and salt on the vegetables. She was horrified, and said that would ruin the vegetables. (TRUE STORY). Well, my kids did get their vegetables, with a bit of butter and salt.

Who is right? She is/was. Problem is, her kids didn't eat vegetables at all as a result. Just an analogy.

Last edited by MTUSA; 09-13-2011 at 09:20 PM. Reason: Not sure how to respond.
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Old 09-13-2011, 09:32 PM   #53 (permalink)  
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Hi MTUSA,

Ex-smoker here and recovering problem drinker so my glass house is plenty big
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Old 09-14-2011, 04:41 AM   #54 (permalink)  
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MTUSA,

One of the hardest parts is knowing that they could die any day. I can almost compare it to a child that has cancer. You feel like you are watching them die. Although, if they had cancer they would get treatment that hopefully cured them. I apologize to anyone going through cancer, and I am not minimizing that plight. I am just making a comparison that makes sense to me. Just saying, and you all know, that Oxy addiction are serious and deadly.

Both you and I had to watch a parent die of addiction, and that pain does not compare to seeing your child going down that path. Your son seems like a great person, and you are a great mom. I hope with all my heart that you get your son back.

Hugs,
D
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Old 09-14-2011, 04:55 AM   #55 (permalink)  
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[I] not here to be nasty, but this seems like hypocrisy: nicotine is as much of a drug as alcohol and heroin and certainly as deadly.
I hear what you are saying about smoking being deadly, but I wish my son was only a smoker and not shooting Oxy!!!!! Then I wouldn't have to worry about getting a phone call that he is dead.
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Old 09-14-2011, 05:35 AM   #56 (permalink)  
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Hi Sweet Dreams,

I have spoken of my smoking habit, as I can't pretend I don't have an addiction. Truth is, it's not like one has much much for withdrawls quitting smoking. It's all in the head.

I brought this up, to show I am human. I use cigarettes as a crutch. I have every excuse to keep smoking (in my own mind), when the truth is that I like to smoke.

You gave up the smokes. My last time quitting cigarettes, I wanted a smoke with my coffee every morning (and of course all day long, whenenver I felt like it).

I am imperfect, and this is just one obvious part of my behavior that proves it.

My sons drug use and addiction, taught me compassion and understanding (not acceptance exactly). I wondered not too long ago, had I been more compassionate regarding my mother's alcoholism, would she have benefitted? I doubt it. At least I would not have been so angry with her.

P.S. I always told my children that my mother (their grandmother) was an alcoholic. I rarely allowed them to be around her, and when they were, I did make sure she was sober. She lost out, and so did they. Most alcoholics and addicts have much to give to others.
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Old 09-14-2011, 05:48 AM   #57 (permalink)  
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Hi December,

Oh God, I know exactly what you mean. I had thought many times of calling police to report his drug use. Would he have been arrested and received help, or thrown into a jail/prison where he would have been abused by "men." (That was/is my fear also)

Could you go and talk to a police officer, ask what to do? I know wish I had done that. Our son was very good at masking his use. The last time my husband and I took him to a chemical dependency center for a referral which was denied...my husband stayed with him 3 days. Obviously we had no idea he was using right under my husband's nose. My husband said he was fine after 3 days. We know now, he never stopped. He must have been doing this in the restroom.

We have a drug task force here. I spoke with one officer on that force for a good hour. He was a very kind man. I was suprised and wish I had known that there were such people. I envisioned people in army gear, with machine guns (well...that's exaggerated). At least consider making an appointment with someone at the police department who focuses on drugs. Tell them "a close relative" has the problem and your fears. Ask them if they have any suggestions.

I know exactly how you feel. I read up on oxycontin. It's time released and not meant to be crushed and put into the body through the veins. None of it is. The oxycodone I believe is very strong, and easily overdosed on. The damage to their heart, veins and other parts is horrible and can be permanent.

I do not understand "hitting bottom." In the case of someone putting drugs into their veins, each time is like Russian Roulette. We are to wait (?) until they hit bottom according to some. If my kid was say smoking marijuana, I could somewhat understand this. But not when anyone is putting stuff into their body like our two boys.

I do wish I had come in contact with our local task force, before this happened. I believe this fellow I spoke with, would have come to talk to my son. I did NOT get the idea they are out to arrest and incarcerate drug addicts. That is what I presumed.
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Old 09-14-2011, 06:24 AM   #58 (permalink)  
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Hi December,

Watching a child die by their own hands, is horrible. I believe the wrenching grief is comparable to few things anyone could/should ever endure. The addicts just don't care about themselves, as the drugs have control mentally and physically. I do believe they feel helpless. No one would want to continue using drugs, if they were not addicted. That is where we have compassion.

One wants to live (cancer) and has no choice, the other doesn't seem to care because of the effects on their brain and body. Our sons are doing this to themselves. They are addicted as a result of choices, and dying.

Mom of addict, to mom of addict, I do know what you are going through. I know someone who lost their child to Cystic Fibrosis. A beautiful, talented, incredible young woman. I would never compare, because her daughter wanted to live. I believe the grief level is comparable, but not socially acceptable. The grief we go through is what makes us so sick, not just the "enabling" (if we do that). I'm not stating this well, and I am sorry. I just know if it was my child dying of a medical condition other than drugs, my friends (hah!) would be much more supportive of me.

There really needs to be a national support group for parents of addicts and alcoholics. We suffer differently than those whose spouses or parents/friends are alcoholics. Few can walk away from a child who is dependent on drugs or alcohol. Little compassion socially at any stage.

In fact, society blames us (parents) for not doing our job. I know I did not introduce my son to drugs, and always spoke against drugs as you did. Society does not care, and neither did I until it happened to our child.

Deb
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Old 09-14-2011, 07:25 AM   #59 (permalink)  
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I am still going to get the books recommended. The jailers are wonderful, and they will likely make sure they reach him and also end up in the library.
This is a good point, and I have donated literature to institutions before if I knew that they were lacking. You never know who may be helped by it.
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Old 09-14-2011, 09:23 AM   #60 (permalink)  
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I think donation is a great word. There's a very good chance any book donated would find it's way to him.
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