I love my son. Oxy and heroin use.
Today is a New Day
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,766
Originally Posted by MTUSA 
What makes one user stop and others continue?
I guess that's the question we'd all like to have the answer for.
I guess that's the question we'd all like to have the answer for.
Wishing you much love and strength in these difficult times.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
(((MT))) - oh, I know the codie side very well. It was the fact that I couldn't "fix" my relationship with XABF#1 that led me to start taking something to numb myself out. Most codies don't go to that extreme, but I did. I had tried to commit suicide 3 times prior to that..I was codie to the core.
IMO, the codie recovery has been far harder than the addiction one. I can cut substances out of my life, but people? Not so easy. I've learned a LOT from reading the stories of others on this board, getting miserable enough I was ready to actually TRY some of the things that worked for others, and figuring out what works best in my situation.
I still slip, I still have bad days, but they are pretty rare, and I always go back to gratitude. I'm almost 50, living at home because of the financial despair I brought on myself, and call my home "dysfunction junction" for a variety of reasons. The people I love the most may have issues, but I can still go on with MY life and make the best of it.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
IMO, the codie recovery has been far harder than the addiction one. I can cut substances out of my life, but people? Not so easy. I've learned a LOT from reading the stories of others on this board, getting miserable enough I was ready to actually TRY some of the things that worked for others, and figuring out what works best in my situation.
I still slip, I still have bad days, but they are pretty rare, and I always go back to gratitude. I'm almost 50, living at home because of the financial despair I brought on myself, and call my home "dysfunction junction" for a variety of reasons. The people I love the most may have issues, but I can still go on with MY life and make the best of it.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
I grew up in a single parent home, with a mother who was an alcoholic. I participated in 3 interventions where she went to treatment 3 times. I attended Alanon for 7 years. The majority attending Alanon were women whose husband's were alcholics. Few parents attended. To be honest, these meetings were like reruns of I Love Lucy. We (co-dependent's) knew that we needed to take care of ourselves, but let's be honest heree. When you love someone who is an alcohol or drug user, it's pretty hard to feel good when they are dying before our very eyes. My mom was killing herelf before my very eyes. I watched this happen almost every day of my life until she died. I knew I had no control (after the 3rd treatment-failure). But let's face it, you cannot be emotionally well, when you truly love someone on alcohol or drugs. Impossible. You can only learn to put it out of your mind and function for periods of time. I am not willing to become a zombie, pretending all is well. It's not ok, and I am not a pretend woman. In fact, I think we have too many people with displaced anger, who are covering up their pain by lashing out at those who don't deserve it. I did that for those 7 years I attended Alanon. After all, that's what I was taught. To be fake, and play pretend. It's ridiculous.
I don't know what is like to have a child who is an addict. I do know from experience how horrible it is to lose a child though.
One thing that is really big around here is the 3 c's.
You didn't cause it.
You can't control it.
You can't cure it.
I moved out from my wife of 36 years about 6 months ago after a 6 day booze and sleeping pill blackout binge. I then found this site and started attending al-anon meetings.
I don't know if my wife is getting better or not, she went through out patient rehab (again) and is showing signs of wanting to get better. I am not involved, her recovery, like her addiction is hers. She has to manage it herself. There is nothing I can do one way or the other.
What I have discovered is that I can work my own recovery. I can get better. When I left I had hit my bottom, I had an internal scream of pain going on that I thought the only way it would end was with death. Through this site and Al-Anon I have made huge improvements. I am centered, at peace with myself and happy. I have come to realize that my happiness is up to me. I am not responsible for anyone else's happiness and they are not responsible for mine.
I have given up trying to change/control other people, places and things and accept reality for what it is. My wife is an addict/alcoholic, I accept that now and have moved on. I still love her but I realize that doesn't change anything in the way she chooses to live her life. The only thing I am able to control is how I react to what is happening around me. I can't change what is happening, just my choices on how I react.
I don't know anything about your al-anon family group but it doesn't sound anything like the groups I attend. Perhaps you should look at some other groups and try again.
You can't fix him, you can't make him want to fix himself but you can fix yourself and find peace and happiness in your own life. I have done this and so have many others here.
Please continue to read and post here as there is a ton of experience, strength and hope to be found here as well as many really good people who are willing to help.
Your friend.
Forum Leader
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
Hi MT!
I understand your pain, really I do. My A stepson is 30 years old now. He is an alcoholic, a crack addict, and a polysubstance abuser. My hubby, stepdaughter, and two other stepsons tried to protect him from himself--brought literature home, made appointments with the purported best addiction counselor in town, paid off his very overdrawn checking account, argued, begged, pleaded, threatened.....
Nothing......
At his worst, "Jr." threatened to kill 3 members of his own family, brought his dealer into his father's home, and was even tasered by his dealer.
Finally, the family realized that there was absolutely nothing, and I mean nothing, we could do to MAKE him turn his life around--to MAKE him see the light. We were just not that powerful.....and we let him go. He was asked to move out of his father's house because the family just could not continue to sacrifice themselves on the altar of his addiction and incredibly poor choices. Our lives had become unmanageable.
Has it been hard since then.....yes. "Jr." has been homeless and spent about 5 different stints in jail and prison. We never put any money on phone cards or accounts. He was being fed and had a bed to sleep in and a roof over his head.
At the moment we do not know where he is, what he is doing, or how he is and that is very hard. We pray for him every day, because we believe that his higher power is the only one strong enough to get through to him and help him now. We do tell him we love him when we have the opportunity.....but I don't know if he hears it.
I hope you will stick around, keep reading, keep posting. You are among people who understand.
Hugs, HG
I understand your pain, really I do. My A stepson is 30 years old now. He is an alcoholic, a crack addict, and a polysubstance abuser. My hubby, stepdaughter, and two other stepsons tried to protect him from himself--brought literature home, made appointments with the purported best addiction counselor in town, paid off his very overdrawn checking account, argued, begged, pleaded, threatened.....
Nothing......
At his worst, "Jr." threatened to kill 3 members of his own family, brought his dealer into his father's home, and was even tasered by his dealer.
Finally, the family realized that there was absolutely nothing, and I mean nothing, we could do to MAKE him turn his life around--to MAKE him see the light. We were just not that powerful.....and we let him go. He was asked to move out of his father's house because the family just could not continue to sacrifice themselves on the altar of his addiction and incredibly poor choices. Our lives had become unmanageable.
Has it been hard since then.....yes. "Jr." has been homeless and spent about 5 different stints in jail and prison. We never put any money on phone cards or accounts. He was being fed and had a bed to sleep in and a roof over his head.
At the moment we do not know where he is, what he is doing, or how he is and that is very hard. We pray for him every day, because we believe that his higher power is the only one strong enough to get through to him and help him now. We do tell him we love him when we have the opportunity.....but I don't know if he hears it.
I hope you will stick around, keep reading, keep posting. You are among people who understand.
Hugs, HG
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Manchester UK
Posts: 1,017
Hey MT, I just wanted to say something about the parent/blame thing.
My mum and dad had two kids, me and my brother. They loved us both, and we loved each other.
My brother was the addict in our family, my mother allowed that to cause havoc. It was their choice.
My mother became ill because of the choices she made and what she allowed into her life.
That is my experience.
Having said that, I have no idea how I would behave or react if one of my sons was an addict, it is so much easier said than done. But many of these people here have the experience and talk sense, please listen to them.
I had to edit, I meant to say I was always the 'dependable' one, but at one point my parents didnt speak to me for a few months because I decided to detach from my brother. They blamed me for a lot, a lot that was nothing to do with me. He made his choices, as they all do.
My mum and dad had two kids, me and my brother. They loved us both, and we loved each other.
My brother was the addict in our family, my mother allowed that to cause havoc. It was their choice.
My mother became ill because of the choices she made and what she allowed into her life.
That is my experience.
Having said that, I have no idea how I would behave or react if one of my sons was an addict, it is so much easier said than done. But many of these people here have the experience and talk sense, please listen to them.
I had to edit, I meant to say I was always the 'dependable' one, but at one point my parents didnt speak to me for a few months because I decided to detach from my brother. They blamed me for a lot, a lot that was nothing to do with me. He made his choices, as they all do.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bozeman, MT
Posts: 46
Hello AVRT,
Thanks for your thoughts.
In Arizona he went to a doctor who prescribed medication, after trying to detox himself. He was very sick. (Shaking/chills, etc.). He was working, and had insurance. He refused to go to treatment. He willingly allowed drug testing by us, and tested negative.
He took a trip to MT with his dad and a family friend the next summer. We were planning to return to MT where we moved from when he was little.
He moved back to MT alone, never lived with us. He has been without health insurance since, working construction. He had a wonderful girlfriend for several years. The last year, he began looking sick again, and I asked both he and her if everything was ok. I found out later, that she had been in treatment years ago (cocained I believe). They were both using drugs, and who knows what those were.
Two months before his arrest, after he and girlfriend broke up (she admitted to him using drugs, but never admitted her own use), we met him at his apartment and told him we knew he was using drugs again. He agreed to go to the state hospital for detox, but we needed a "referral" from a local cdc (non-profit). He went willingly as I said, though not happy. Quite honestly, the director and staff (not all) were condascending, and simply wanted to talk about how much he would owe for treatment.
Here's the odd thing. We were there for a REFERRAL. This center is for outpatient only. They have the POWER to decide "who" gets a referral to the state hospital and who does not. They are NOT doctors/nurses. They told us (husband and I) that they are all recovering addicts and alcoholics.
I am still not sure if they wanted him to come in begging for help or what. The fact that he was there willingly, took their tests, and then they wanted him to pay almost three hundred dollars...he refused. No referral.
So, he was willing to go to the state hospital.
Thanks for your thoughts.
In Arizona he went to a doctor who prescribed medication, after trying to detox himself. He was very sick. (Shaking/chills, etc.). He was working, and had insurance. He refused to go to treatment. He willingly allowed drug testing by us, and tested negative.
He took a trip to MT with his dad and a family friend the next summer. We were planning to return to MT where we moved from when he was little.
He moved back to MT alone, never lived with us. He has been without health insurance since, working construction. He had a wonderful girlfriend for several years. The last year, he began looking sick again, and I asked both he and her if everything was ok. I found out later, that she had been in treatment years ago (cocained I believe). They were both using drugs, and who knows what those were.
Two months before his arrest, after he and girlfriend broke up (she admitted to him using drugs, but never admitted her own use), we met him at his apartment and told him we knew he was using drugs again. He agreed to go to the state hospital for detox, but we needed a "referral" from a local cdc (non-profit). He went willingly as I said, though not happy. Quite honestly, the director and staff (not all) were condascending, and simply wanted to talk about how much he would owe for treatment.
Here's the odd thing. We were there for a REFERRAL. This center is for outpatient only. They have the POWER to decide "who" gets a referral to the state hospital and who does not. They are NOT doctors/nurses. They told us (husband and I) that they are all recovering addicts and alcoholics.
I am still not sure if they wanted him to come in begging for help or what. The fact that he was there willingly, took their tests, and then they wanted him to pay almost three hundred dollars...he refused. No referral.
So, he was willing to go to the state hospital.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bozeman, MT
Posts: 46
Dear HopeWorks,
THANK YOU! I re-read what you wrote.
I will order "Beautiful Boy" for my son, and have it shipped to the jail.
Thank you for helping me with my question about sending funds for him while in jail. I have sent increments of $50.00 to as little as $20.00. A phone card (they don't have inmates call collect which is a blessing) is $10.00, but not sure how much time he gets. He only calls about every 2 weeks. He usually calls his dad (husband).
Thank you again, I appreciate your thoughts.
Deb
THANK YOU! I re-read what you wrote.
I will order "Beautiful Boy" for my son, and have it shipped to the jail.
Thank you for helping me with my question about sending funds for him while in jail. I have sent increments of $50.00 to as little as $20.00. A phone card (they don't have inmates call collect which is a blessing) is $10.00, but not sure how much time he gets. He only calls about every 2 weeks. He usually calls his dad (husband).
Thank you again, I appreciate your thoughts.
Deb
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bozeman, MT
Posts: 46
Dear Fed Up,
I want to thank you for being a "friend" to your friend, whose two children are drowning in alcohol and/or drugs.
Something I had not mentioned, was the SHAME that goes with having a child on drugs. Let's face it, if we have ONE, just 1 good friend we should be grateful. During a time like this, I wonder if many parent's find that their "friends" abandon them, start avoiding them. The truth is, we do end up so lonely.
The worst part is, the "friends" who claim to care, but (small town) you find out later, they are out gossiping. My husband and I are pretty straight up people (nerds probably-not quite), and we didn't raise our children in a home where there was violence or drugs. Alcohol use is minimal. I rarely drink (just don't really like the stuff or how it makes me feel, and mother was an alcoholic), and my husband does drink beer, but not daily. Too much at a few barbecues. So, none of our friends are big drinkers and none use drugs.
Again, I have no doubt you are appreciated more than you know by your friend who is struggling. I know how she must feel...empty, praying incesently (sp?). To those of us who can't know what it's like to be an addict, it's so easy to say.."Just stop it."
I am a closet smoker, and I can't seem to (or don't want to) give that up. I'm also the biggest hypocrit of all. Had you talked to me 10 years ago, I would have TOLD you that if you had a kid on drugs, it was YOUR fault...YOU did something wrong.
The only good I can see, is how I and my husband have changed our hearts towards those addicted to drugs and alcohol. Sad that it took our son to become an addict, for us to understand the definition and meaning of COMPASSION. I pray for forgiveness each day, for my judgement of others.
Our oldest daughter just graduated college, so that makes us feel at least like we're not total looooosers for parents. She's been a joy and pleasure to raise. So easy... We are careful not to ignore her emotionally or in any other way. Her life is so grounded... We of course, thought her brother would follow along. How wrong we were.
We have a 16 year old daughter, who we are PARANOID about, like you can't believe! This is for sure, not healthy for her. We have to work on that. SHe is deeply affected by her brother's drug use, and just broke down crying one day and said, "I want Dustin back...". We were in the car, not speaking of him and she just starte sobbing.
Anyone struggling with addiction, please know that we who love you, love you more than you could imagine. Please don't throw us away like garbage.
Thanks again for writing to me.
Deb
I want to thank you for being a "friend" to your friend, whose two children are drowning in alcohol and/or drugs.
Something I had not mentioned, was the SHAME that goes with having a child on drugs. Let's face it, if we have ONE, just 1 good friend we should be grateful. During a time like this, I wonder if many parent's find that their "friends" abandon them, start avoiding them. The truth is, we do end up so lonely.
The worst part is, the "friends" who claim to care, but (small town) you find out later, they are out gossiping. My husband and I are pretty straight up people (nerds probably-not quite), and we didn't raise our children in a home where there was violence or drugs. Alcohol use is minimal. I rarely drink (just don't really like the stuff or how it makes me feel, and mother was an alcoholic), and my husband does drink beer, but not daily. Too much at a few barbecues. So, none of our friends are big drinkers and none use drugs.
Again, I have no doubt you are appreciated more than you know by your friend who is struggling. I know how she must feel...empty, praying incesently (sp?). To those of us who can't know what it's like to be an addict, it's so easy to say.."Just stop it."
I am a closet smoker, and I can't seem to (or don't want to) give that up. I'm also the biggest hypocrit of all. Had you talked to me 10 years ago, I would have TOLD you that if you had a kid on drugs, it was YOUR fault...YOU did something wrong.
The only good I can see, is how I and my husband have changed our hearts towards those addicted to drugs and alcohol. Sad that it took our son to become an addict, for us to understand the definition and meaning of COMPASSION. I pray for forgiveness each day, for my judgement of others.
Our oldest daughter just graduated college, so that makes us feel at least like we're not total looooosers for parents. She's been a joy and pleasure to raise. So easy... We are careful not to ignore her emotionally or in any other way. Her life is so grounded... We of course, thought her brother would follow along. How wrong we were.
We have a 16 year old daughter, who we are PARANOID about, like you can't believe! This is for sure, not healthy for her. We have to work on that. SHe is deeply affected by her brother's drug use, and just broke down crying one day and said, "I want Dustin back...". We were in the car, not speaking of him and she just starte sobbing.
Anyone struggling with addiction, please know that we who love you, love you more than you could imagine. Please don't throw us away like garbage.
Thanks again for writing to me.
Deb
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bozeman, MT
Posts: 46
Star Cat!
THANK YOU! I needed that. Another poster basically said the same. You wrote:
"The user themselves. They won't stop until they decide to stop. Nobody can make that decision for them, and continued sobriety won't happen until the addict decides that's what they want for themselves."
I prayed that someone would give me the "right" words to say to my son who is in jail (he's detoxed...so my thought has been, he would listen, but he's not) to MAKE him stop using drugs.
I so appreciate those who have struggled with addiction, TELLING me that there are not correct or right words to say.
I believe he should know (letter/card/note) that we love him. Your thoughts on anything to write. Should I ignore the drugs in my notes/cards, and just say I love him or mention his addiction?
If you could think about that, and anyone else I would be so grateful. What to say or not say regarding his drug use/addiction. I don't want him to close the door, and it seems he kind of is. He only calls about every 2 weeks. When he does call it is always very positive, but he's gone from:
Get me out of here...
(Detoxed) I need treatment...
(Weeks later) I could have detoxed myself... (Then, WHY didn't you?)
NOW/PRESENTLY: I don't need treatment...
That's where he's at.
Thank you for any advice as to what I should or shouldn't say. I am not soppy, and won't just bail him out. We have agreed to sign for bail (he uses own money from his own retirement account) but we have to put up property for the rest, IF AND ONLY IF he wants to go to treatment like he said...he wanted to, weeks ago.
Again, he's in the "I don't need treatment" mode presently.
THANK YOU SO MUCH!
You folks are all helping me more than you know.
THANK YOU! I needed that. Another poster basically said the same. You wrote:
"The user themselves. They won't stop until they decide to stop. Nobody can make that decision for them, and continued sobriety won't happen until the addict decides that's what they want for themselves."
I prayed that someone would give me the "right" words to say to my son who is in jail (he's detoxed...so my thought has been, he would listen, but he's not) to MAKE him stop using drugs.
I so appreciate those who have struggled with addiction, TELLING me that there are not correct or right words to say.
I believe he should know (letter/card/note) that we love him. Your thoughts on anything to write. Should I ignore the drugs in my notes/cards, and just say I love him or mention his addiction?
If you could think about that, and anyone else I would be so grateful. What to say or not say regarding his drug use/addiction. I don't want him to close the door, and it seems he kind of is. He only calls about every 2 weeks. When he does call it is always very positive, but he's gone from:
Get me out of here...
(Detoxed) I need treatment...
(Weeks later) I could have detoxed myself... (Then, WHY didn't you?)
NOW/PRESENTLY: I don't need treatment...
That's where he's at.
Thank you for any advice as to what I should or shouldn't say. I am not soppy, and won't just bail him out. We have agreed to sign for bail (he uses own money from his own retirement account) but we have to put up property for the rest, IF AND ONLY IF he wants to go to treatment like he said...he wanted to, weeks ago.
Again, he's in the "I don't need treatment" mode presently.
THANK YOU SO MUCH!
You folks are all helping me more than you know.
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Western US
Posts: 143
MTUSA
It is hard being a parent of a child who uses. I am one too. I know exactly what you mean about the shame that comes along with it. My youngest is 18 and has already done a stint in jail for drugs. Currently she is not using, but only because her loser BF supplier is still sitting in the pokey. We love them so deeply and suffer greatly when they do this to themselves. When she went to jail I refused to bail her out and it was the hardest thing I have ever done.
It is hard being a parent of a child who uses. I am one too. I know exactly what you mean about the shame that comes along with it. My youngest is 18 and has already done a stint in jail for drugs. Currently she is not using, but only because her loser BF supplier is still sitting in the pokey. We love them so deeply and suffer greatly when they do this to themselves. When she went to jail I refused to bail her out and it was the hardest thing I have ever done.
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bozeman, MT
Posts: 46
Hi Impurrfect,
You seem to understand both sides. I haven't yet...felt compelled to drown out my sorrows with drink or anything else. It'd just make me sick anyways. Lot of good that would do.
That leads me to again wonder, what draws some people to these things. I smoke...have quite several times (almost 50 too!) and wonder what the h e double hockey stick is wrong with me. I'm going to end up with cancer, yet I continue. I hide it so my daughter's (16 year old) friends/family don't see it. So, I have my own vice, destructive in a different way. Few of are without issues.
If it makes you feel any better, I want you to know that both my husband and I have spoken of how difficult (financially) it is and would be, to start over today, with costs so high regarding almost everything (housing/vehicles, etc.). Our first home was a old, and I mean old log cabin. We heated with wood. We "moved up" to a trailer house. MMMMM hmmm.... Thought I was a princess. Yup... Today we could not purchase the home we live in, even on his wages. It takes time, and fortunately we had no huge bumps in the road. We are far from well off, just barely stable financially. So, if possible save every dime. We shop only sales, and things we truly need and try to take care of what we have to make it last, no matter what it is.
Please remember, all of us/most of us have things in our lives which cause us hidden and sometimes public grief. You are not alone. Keep on doing the right things. Don't forget others that you may have hurt, especially if they were there for you, regardless of how dysfunctional they might appear. Usually the speck is in our own eye!
That's what I am finding.
I need to be more grateful for the small things, and stop analyzing others (which I am succeeding at). Compassion for others lifts alot of weight off our shoulders, and makes us better people.
I am reading Matthew again, and wow...it's like a whole new book. Give it a go!
Thanks, Deb
You seem to understand both sides. I haven't yet...felt compelled to drown out my sorrows with drink or anything else. It'd just make me sick anyways. Lot of good that would do.
That leads me to again wonder, what draws some people to these things. I smoke...have quite several times (almost 50 too!) and wonder what the h e double hockey stick is wrong with me. I'm going to end up with cancer, yet I continue. I hide it so my daughter's (16 year old) friends/family don't see it. So, I have my own vice, destructive in a different way. Few of are without issues.
If it makes you feel any better, I want you to know that both my husband and I have spoken of how difficult (financially) it is and would be, to start over today, with costs so high regarding almost everything (housing/vehicles, etc.). Our first home was a old, and I mean old log cabin. We heated with wood. We "moved up" to a trailer house. MMMMM hmmm.... Thought I was a princess. Yup... Today we could not purchase the home we live in, even on his wages. It takes time, and fortunately we had no huge bumps in the road. We are far from well off, just barely stable financially. So, if possible save every dime. We shop only sales, and things we truly need and try to take care of what we have to make it last, no matter what it is.
Please remember, all of us/most of us have things in our lives which cause us hidden and sometimes public grief. You are not alone. Keep on doing the right things. Don't forget others that you may have hurt, especially if they were there for you, regardless of how dysfunctional they might appear. Usually the speck is in our own eye!
That's what I am finding. I need to be more grateful for the small things, and stop analyzing others (which I am succeeding at). Compassion for others lifts alot of weight off our shoulders, and makes us better people.
I am reading Matthew again, and wow...it's like a whole new book. Give it a go!
Thanks, Deb
Today is a New Day
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,766
Originally Posted by MTUSA
I believe he should know (letter/card/note) that we love him. Your thoughts on anything to write. Should I ignore the drugs in my notes/cards, and just say I love him or mention his addiction?
She said that was a really hard thing to do at first. In the beginning, she would only talk about the weather, or the chores she had done that day. As time went on, though, it became easier, and she actually found herself looking for fun things to do so that she could tell her son about them in their daily phone call.
She told me that at first her son was rather taken aback by this, since she rarely spoke about herself, and spent most of her time worrying about him. As she became more comfortable talking about herself, though, he became more interested and excited to hear what she had to share, and even started making some plans for things that he wanted to do, and picking up a few fun things to do in rehab so that he'd have some fun stories to share with his mom.
I know in your situation it's different, letters rather than phone calls, jail rather than rehab... Nonetheless, my thought is that an approach like this would be a positive change for the both of you.
Write about yourself, and the family, rather than your son. Anything you think to write about, as often as you want to write them.
That's my two cents.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bozeman, MT
Posts: 46
Hello M1K3 (Mike),
Holy cow, I came to the right site. You wrote"
"You didn't cause it.
You can't control it.
You can't cure it."
I didn't cause it, I can't control it and I can't cure it.
You wrote:
"I am not responsible for anyone else's happiness and they are not responsible for mine."
Very true. My son is not responsible for my happiness (obviously ) grrr....
If only those using knew how much their use of drugs/alcohol hurt and affected those who love them. I have known others in alanon (years ago) who washed their hands, so to speak, of loved one's, but then I had to wonder why they were at the meetings. It seemed to me, they really hadn't washed their hands at all. When you love someone, it is almost impossible to walk away.
I am so sorry for your loss. I cannot imagine losing a child. I do believe we are somehow prepared to lose a parent, even a sibling (hopefully in later years), but never a child, under any circumstances. I have to wonder if your wife may be trying to end her life, as bearing this for some may likely be different than for others.
I only know one person somewhat well, who has lost a child. They have thrown themselves into a non-profit focused on the disease that took their child. They are grieving deeply, and I suspect will always do so. Truly, I believe this is how she (they) survive. Takes their mind off their loss and grief. Any possiblity of something like that for your wife, where she could focus her energy and passion to helping others in the same circumstances? I understand that ideas/concepts like this, usually take funding and likely when alcohol or drug use is present in a home, funding is tight at best for most.
I forgot another fellow I know. He lost his son years ago in an accident. From what my husband has told me, this man (now in his early 70's) went on a total, self-destruction mode. Drinking/motorcycles... He no longer wanted to live. I didn't know him then. I met him when he was dating his now wife (2nd wife) (about 25 years ago...) and she got pregnant! He was a little old (NO! I am not suggesting another child...Laughing). Anyway, their baby (a son, but it wouldn't have mattered) saved his life, I have no doubt. That son is now grown, almost my sons age. Graduated from college, married and helping "dad" with his business, which he will take over. The dad was already a grandfather when his son died, then became a father again. It also stopped the self-destruction.
I can only imagine your pain and that of your wife's. Maybe (as if I know anything) see if there's something that she could do to honor the memory of the child that was lost, maybe change her focus. Just an idea. My greatest fear is not wanting to live, should I lose any child. I do fear that. I don't know if I could take my own advice.
Once again, a hypocrit. Anyway, think about it, maybe it's something worthwhile.
Thank you so much for writing.
Deb
Holy cow, I came to the right site. You wrote"
"You didn't cause it.
You can't control it.
You can't cure it."
I didn't cause it, I can't control it and I can't cure it.
You wrote:
"I am not responsible for anyone else's happiness and they are not responsible for mine."
Very true. My son is not responsible for my happiness (obviously
) grrr....If only those using knew how much their use of drugs/alcohol hurt and affected those who love them. I have known others in alanon (years ago) who washed their hands, so to speak, of loved one's, but then I had to wonder why they were at the meetings. It seemed to me, they really hadn't washed their hands at all. When you love someone, it is almost impossible to walk away.
I am so sorry for your loss. I cannot imagine losing a child. I do believe we are somehow prepared to lose a parent, even a sibling (hopefully in later years), but never a child, under any circumstances. I have to wonder if your wife may be trying to end her life, as bearing this for some may likely be different than for others.
I only know one person somewhat well, who has lost a child. They have thrown themselves into a non-profit focused on the disease that took their child. They are grieving deeply, and I suspect will always do so. Truly, I believe this is how she (they) survive. Takes their mind off their loss and grief. Any possiblity of something like that for your wife, where she could focus her energy and passion to helping others in the same circumstances? I understand that ideas/concepts like this, usually take funding and likely when alcohol or drug use is present in a home, funding is tight at best for most.
I forgot another fellow I know. He lost his son years ago in an accident. From what my husband has told me, this man (now in his early 70's) went on a total, self-destruction mode. Drinking/motorcycles... He no longer wanted to live. I didn't know him then. I met him when he was dating his now wife (2nd wife) (about 25 years ago...) and she got pregnant! He was a little old (NO! I am not suggesting another child...Laughing). Anyway, their baby (a son, but it wouldn't have mattered) saved his life, I have no doubt. That son is now grown, almost my sons age. Graduated from college, married and helping "dad" with his business, which he will take over. The dad was already a grandfather when his son died, then became a father again. It also stopped the self-destruction.
I can only imagine your pain and that of your wife's. Maybe (as if I know anything) see if there's something that she could do to honor the memory of the child that was lost, maybe change her focus. Just an idea. My greatest fear is not wanting to live, should I lose any child. I do fear that. I don't know if I could take my own advice.
Once again, a hypocrit. Anyway, think about it, maybe it's something worthwhile.
Thank you so much for writing.
Deb
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bozeman, MT
Posts: 46
WOW Star Cat,
That does make sense. I would never have thought to write about myself, husband, his sisters. What a AWESOME idea. I don't write anymore, because I obviously don't say the right things. My letters usually go like this:
"Son, (blah blah blah), take a look at your life, take a look at your friends....". Then I usually point out that his friends are not his friends (true), but that we love him. Selfish? Maybe.
I haven't said much positive, except to try to remind him of good things he has done when not on drugs.
Ok... now I can write.
I am truly getting more reasonable and useable advice on this board, than I could have hoped for.
Thank you so much for reading and answering my request.
It is impossible to turn your back on your own child, at least for me. Yet I am aware that I am doing him no good with my present actions or inactions.
Thank you so much for taking the time to share that idea with me. How simple, yet completely different than anything I ever thought to do before.
Deb
That does make sense. I would never have thought to write about myself, husband, his sisters. What a AWESOME idea. I don't write anymore, because I obviously don't say the right things. My letters usually go like this:
"Son, (blah blah blah), take a look at your life, take a look at your friends....". Then I usually point out that his friends are not his friends (true), but that we love him. Selfish? Maybe.
I haven't said much positive, except to try to remind him of good things he has done when not on drugs.
Ok... now I can write.
I am truly getting more reasonable and useable advice on this board, than I could have hoped for.
Thank you so much for reading and answering my request.
It is impossible to turn your back on your own child, at least for me. Yet I am aware that I am doing him no good with my present actions or inactions.
Thank you so much for taking the time to share that idea with me. How simple, yet completely different than anything I ever thought to do before.
Deb
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bozeman, MT
Posts: 46
On My Way,
Thank you for acknowedging the shame that comes to parents whose children use drugs or alchol. I think it's society's way of setting an example to others (children and parents) that, "You better make sure your kid doesn't do this, or you'll be treated like this."
I am so sad your daughter has engaged herself in this. I tried to tell my son, that the person who introduced him to drugs (I do know who) was selfish, wanted someone else to do it with, and saw a source of funding (my son always worked and had a vehicle).
I have come to the conclusion that people who introduce others to drugs, who are themselves addicted, are selfish beyond imagination. If you're addicted to drugs, it has to be horrible, so why...why, would anyone want someone else to become addicted as well? For GAIN of some sort. Maybe the boyfriends was lonely, so he figured if he could get her using, they'd be together. It's still very selfish, but those using are usually not concerned about who they hurt, part of their illness.
I know if I look back (and I was a "good kid") at my life (late teens and twenties) I think, "What on earth was I thinking?"
The problem is, with drugs or alcohol, the mistakes cause so much harm, because of the addiction.
For a young girl to look back and think, "What a lousy boyfriend" (not on drugs) is typical. Much better than "I can't believe I dated a guy who introduced me to drugs."
Ask your daughter if she loves you. She does and she will likely admit it. Ask her then if she would introduce you to drugs. Likely her answer would be no. Then maybe ask her why her boyfriend introduced her to drugs, IF he really cared deeply for her. Just an idea...I am NOT giving advice, just a thought. My thoughts have not succeeded with my son.
Thank you so much for sharing with me. Your daughter is precious and loved.
Deb
Thank you for acknowedging the shame that comes to parents whose children use drugs or alchol. I think it's society's way of setting an example to others (children and parents) that, "You better make sure your kid doesn't do this, or you'll be treated like this."
I am so sad your daughter has engaged herself in this. I tried to tell my son, that the person who introduced him to drugs (I do know who) was selfish, wanted someone else to do it with, and saw a source of funding (my son always worked and had a vehicle).
I have come to the conclusion that people who introduce others to drugs, who are themselves addicted, are selfish beyond imagination. If you're addicted to drugs, it has to be horrible, so why...why, would anyone want someone else to become addicted as well? For GAIN of some sort. Maybe the boyfriends was lonely, so he figured if he could get her using, they'd be together. It's still very selfish, but those using are usually not concerned about who they hurt, part of their illness.
I know if I look back (and I was a "good kid") at my life (late teens and twenties) I think, "What on earth was I thinking?"
The problem is, with drugs or alcohol, the mistakes cause so much harm, because of the addiction.
For a young girl to look back and think, "What a lousy boyfriend" (not on drugs) is typical. Much better than "I can't believe I dated a guy who introduced me to drugs."
Ask your daughter if she loves you. She does and she will likely admit it. Ask her then if she would introduce you to drugs. Likely her answer would be no. Then maybe ask her why her boyfriend introduced her to drugs, IF he really cared deeply for her. Just an idea...I am NOT giving advice, just a thought. My thoughts have not succeeded with my son.
Thank you so much for sharing with me. Your daughter is precious and loved.
Deb
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
Deb, thank you for writing. We lost our daughter a long time ago and since then have had 2 wonderful daughters who are now married and 5 grandchildren. It is still painful if I focus on it but I have so much in my life to be grateful for. My wife did not show any major signs of alcoholism for the first 20 or so years of our marriage. I have no idea what set her off and no idea where her life is going to lead her. I do know that I have managed to turn my life around with the help of this site and Al-Anon. We have a saying that is very true when dealing with addicts/alcoholics, "Let go or be dragged." Their addiction does something to their minds. They do not think or feel the way we do and I have given up on trying to understand.
One thing you have to realize is that your son is an adult, has the right to choose his own life and has the right to choose not to recover no matter what you want.
I have found from my own experience that what works best for me is working on my own recovery and letting my wife have the freedom of her own life. I think she is working on some sort of recovery but I don't ask and don't pry. We don't talk often and if she wants to share that is up to her. I can honestly say that after moving out 5 months ago and starting al-anon and posting here at SR that I am in a much better place and actually enjoy life again.
BTW even though I am an atheist my favorite book of the bible is Ecclesiastes. It is yet another way of saying the secret of inner peace is to let go of the illusion of control.
Your friend,
One thing you have to realize is that your son is an adult, has the right to choose his own life and has the right to choose not to recover no matter what you want.
I have found from my own experience that what works best for me is working on my own recovery and letting my wife have the freedom of her own life. I think she is working on some sort of recovery but I don't ask and don't pry. We don't talk often and if she wants to share that is up to her. I can honestly say that after moving out 5 months ago and starting al-anon and posting here at SR that I am in a much better place and actually enjoy life again.
BTW even though I am an atheist my favorite book of the bible is Ecclesiastes. It is yet another way of saying the secret of inner peace is to let go of the illusion of control.
Your friend,
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bozeman, MT
Posts: 46
Wow Lucy,
I am so sorry, your parents did that. Our 16 year old is missing her brother so much, and so deeply affected by this. There are no alateen meetings here (I called alanon).
I can see where the other siblings/kids can be manipulated (well meaning) to do what mom and/or dad think is best. I believe with all my heart, your parents (like most parents with a kid on drugs) are doing what they believe will heal/fix their child and forcing the others to do the same.
I have received more good advice in less than 24 hours on this board, than in all my life. I have thoughts/ideas/suggestions from those who have been on both sides of the fence, and heck in other pastures also.
Thank you so much. I am so sad for you, as I know you are trying (as are my daughter's) to experience the normal life cycles of up's and down's without a dark gray cloud (your brother and his problem). I have no doubt the bond between parents and a child is much different than between siblings. Don't feel badly for wanting to go on, your brother is very much in your heart. Our eldest daughter is doing very much the same thing as you (with kindness-she does send her brother $10.00 a month so he can call her), and we are respectfully encouraging this, and reminding ourselves to remeber to share in her joys and education/career/soon-to-be mom (I'm going to be a grandmother in less than two months!).
So, you're not selfish. I would tell you that you are a joy, and we are so proud of you.
Thanks,
Deb
I am so sorry, your parents did that. Our 16 year old is missing her brother so much, and so deeply affected by this. There are no alateen meetings here (I called alanon).
I can see where the other siblings/kids can be manipulated (well meaning) to do what mom and/or dad think is best. I believe with all my heart, your parents (like most parents with a kid on drugs) are doing what they believe will heal/fix their child and forcing the others to do the same.
I have received more good advice in less than 24 hours on this board, than in all my life. I have thoughts/ideas/suggestions from those who have been on both sides of the fence, and heck in other pastures also.
Thank you so much. I am so sad for you, as I know you are trying (as are my daughter's) to experience the normal life cycles of up's and down's without a dark gray cloud (your brother and his problem). I have no doubt the bond between parents and a child is much different than between siblings. Don't feel badly for wanting to go on, your brother is very much in your heart. Our eldest daughter is doing very much the same thing as you (with kindness-she does send her brother $10.00 a month so he can call her), and we are respectfully encouraging this, and reminding ourselves to remeber to share in her joys and education/career/soon-to-be mom (I'm going to be a grandmother in less than two months!).
So, you're not selfish. I would tell you that you are a joy, and we are so proud of you.
Thanks,
Deb
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Western US
Posts: 143
MTUSA
I know my daughter loves me but she needs to love herself and right now she doesn't. Hence the drugs. We take every day, one at a time. She is very clear that my boundary is NO DRUGS in my home. I have a home drug test sitting there for any time I even think she is using. I really cannot blame her boyfriends. She chooses to use, but she also chooses the boyfriends. Right now we are on an even keel, but each day a storm is possible.
My late husband (her dad) was a cop and she was raised to know right from wrong. That adds to the shame as a parent....dad's a cop....grandpa's a cop..... But you did not cause your son to make the choices he did. And, sadly you cannot make him choose the right either. My heart does break for you. Heroin is such a terrible, terrible drug (also my daughter's DOC). Know that I am feeling your pain and you are not alone.
I know my daughter loves me but she needs to love herself and right now she doesn't. Hence the drugs. We take every day, one at a time. She is very clear that my boundary is NO DRUGS in my home. I have a home drug test sitting there for any time I even think she is using. I really cannot blame her boyfriends. She chooses to use, but she also chooses the boyfriends. Right now we are on an even keel, but each day a storm is possible.
My late husband (her dad) was a cop and she was raised to know right from wrong. That adds to the shame as a parent....dad's a cop....grandpa's a cop..... But you did not cause your son to make the choices he did. And, sadly you cannot make him choose the right either. My heart does break for you. Heroin is such a terrible, terrible drug (also my daughter's DOC). Know that I am feeling your pain and you are not alone.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bozeman, MT
Posts: 46
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the kind words, and sharing some of your experiences.
I am in the mode, "It's my son..." not my wife/husband, etc.
I was able to let go of the craziness of trying to control my mother. You are right, it is not possible. We/I, cannot control other people. What I don't want to do is enable in any way, but I also can't totally turn my back.
I am trying to find a healthy distance, because I want my son in my life, and part of that is selfish I guess. Naturally so? I can't bear to live knowing he is killing himself. I have slept better for the past 3 months (since he's been jailed), than in the past 7 years.
Mike, this is a kid who grew up in Scouting, camping, fishing, hunting, not street crime. He didn't grow up in a home where there were drugs and little alcohol use. No violence, well...me yelling one in a while at the kids or his dad. Never threw any plates at anyone though... (laughing). Our children were raised 100 times better than we were, and that does not mean perfect. But, we tried really hard to provide a descent home, clothing, food, etc. He never had to be ashamed of us. (I came from a home with a mother who was an alcoholic. I was always worrying, and ashamed.)
This is not what he was shown or taught at home. That I do know. It is the most sickening thing you can imagine, to watch your child do this to themself.
Thanks so much.
Deborah
Thanks for the kind words, and sharing some of your experiences.
I am in the mode, "It's my son..." not my wife/husband, etc.
I was able to let go of the craziness of trying to control my mother. You are right, it is not possible. We/I, cannot control other people. What I don't want to do is enable in any way, but I also can't totally turn my back.
I am trying to find a healthy distance, because I want my son in my life, and part of that is selfish I guess. Naturally so? I can't bear to live knowing he is killing himself. I have slept better for the past 3 months (since he's been jailed), than in the past 7 years.
Mike, this is a kid who grew up in Scouting, camping, fishing, hunting, not street crime. He didn't grow up in a home where there were drugs and little alcohol use. No violence, well...me yelling one in a while at the kids or his dad. Never threw any plates at anyone though...
(laughing). Our children were raised 100 times better than we were, and that does not mean perfect. But, we tried really hard to provide a descent home, clothing, food, etc. He never had to be ashamed of us. (I came from a home with a mother who was an alcoholic. I was always worrying, and ashamed.)This is not what he was shown or taught at home. That I do know. It is the most sickening thing you can imagine, to watch your child do this to themself.
Thanks so much.
Deborah
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
Posts: 3,680
MTUSA,
I have spoken to many who were finally able to kick the habit once they were forced to detox in jail, and were given ample time to reflect on their life. There is not much else to do while you are in there. There are no guarantees, but perhaps this will work out for him in the long run.
I have spoken to many who were finally able to kick the habit once they were forced to detox in jail, and were given ample time to reflect on their life. There is not much else to do while you are in there. There are no guarantees, but perhaps this will work out for him in the long run.
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